India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 21 Jun 2020 22:36

khan wrote:
Venkarl wrote:Found this Gem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZkByrLayqw

Tweeted to major channels, journalists and analysts
To think for decades India put up with this crap.

Yes.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 21 Jun 2020 22:37

IT has been the best channel on the issue thus far.
The debate today with Kishore Madhubani, an eminent US analyst ,etc., was excellent.The rise of Asia after a few centuries of European intervention ,when China and India were the world's two largest economies, is inevitable says he. War between India and China only benefits the US. China's hegemonic attitude however is leading it into conflict situations . China and India have to drcide what the relationship should be but as Saran said,500 million young Indians will be affected by China's treachery for years to come. The message in short was that
India has to counter China from a position of strength and this involves building up a robust military and networking with other nations equally threatened by China.

Armuan · Post by **Armuan** » 21 Jun 2020 22:38

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7rNOHc6h1U

Interesting views from Subramanian Swamy. This was posted on the 18th. Many may not like or share his views, but gives a perspective. Some good questions at the end. Unable to agree on some of his views, but he has made some very astute observations in the past in political matters.

He says a big contributor for this standoff is driven by the differences/power play between PLA and CCP. He says PLA, unlike CCP, is not interested in politics otherwise and they never were.

~11.45 - Chinese have crossed the LAC
~17.30 - Says we will have to go to war
Is very confident of our victory. Says Chinese will not open another front in Arunachal or Sikkim. Opines that Pakistan would not be allowed to play, courtesy of the US. However someone posted earlier that 40 J10s are rumored to have landed in Skardu.

He has dealt with Chinese in the past. RaviB, would love your inputs if you have time to see this video. Your 2 part piece is brilliant! Very informative. Thank you.

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 21 Jun 2020 22:40

RaviB wrote:Localised conflict is feasible and manageable Tibet is not worth much to the CCP. Of course a dynasty never allows its size to be reduced, but if Lhasa or Amdo or any city in Tibet or Xinjiang were destroyed, the CCP wouldn't even blink. But the CCP will at no costs see even the smallest threat to the heartland (south-west China). So escalation won't proceed beyond a certain step on the ladder

This is a point I have repeatedly stressed. True conventional deterrence for India is the ability to strike conventionally into the heartland of China, the south west of China. That is 2500 km away from Assam. They do not care what happens in Tibet and to Tibetans. Nor is there any honor at all as noted by you. So they will not think twice about launching short range missiles into Indian population centers if they think that will bring India to it's knees. The only way to deter them is if they know that India can execute a reciprocal strike to their population centers in the Chinese heartland. Therefore India badly needs hundreds if not thousands of long range cruise missiles.

China has 3 classes: Peasants (the majority, who nowadays are usually migrant workers); the nouveau riche and the rulers CCP. All three are afraid of each other. The newly rich are happy, obedient and scared to lose what they have, send their children to study abroad and hope to migrate to USA; the worker/peasants are the ones who cause disturbances and are in terrible shape. The rulers are insanely rich, insanely corrupt and insanely paranoid, everyone has at least 2 different passports for their children, apart from the chinese one.

When Meng Wanzhou, Chief Financial Officer and Deputy Chairmanwoman of Huawei (as well being the daughter of the founder Ren Zhengfei) was detained by Canadian RCMP at Vancouver Airport in December 2018, (she is out on bail pending a decision on extradition to the US), she had 5-6 passports in her possession, including 1 Chinese, 2 Hong Kong and other's unspecified.

Bibhas · Post by **Bibhas** » 21 Jun 2020 22:45

yensoy wrote:
Venkarl wrote:Guys,
Is this in our control?
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.6699167 ... a=!3m1!1e3
Yes looks like it.

It also seems that the Chinese are rather weak on the southern bank of Pangong Tso; maybe their belligerence on the northern side comes from a fear that we could walk into Spanggur and take back our land.

I Think it is under our control. I drove through that road partly while I was driving from Merak to Hanle (Off road). Once you cross the Pangong Tso, there is a diversion, I took that path wrongly and reached one of our forward post by mistake. I had to reverse and then forward, cross some very harsh terrain (partly shown on the map you shared) to join back at Tsaka La (There is really no road up to Chushul, its just tyre mark).

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 21 Jun 2020 22:47

If and when war breaks out, Chinese will fight from Pakistan border. It makes no sense for them to use their airforce from Tibet but Skardu and other bases offer good altitude and logistics.

Any war with China from now onwards will be two front war given Pakistan is officially a Chinese colony now. They may force Pakis to do many dirty work and tax IAF.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 21 Jun 2020 22:56

Gen VK Singh hinted that we also captured few of them soldiers..their psyche analysis put together with the above notes will provide a more rounded, objective and deeper understanding of a regular soldier to ranking officers. Poor lizzy CO and his 2nd in command aren't alive to tell their tale

‘Post Galwan battle, Chinese soldiers were in a state of panic’
https://www.sundayguardianlive.com/news ... tate-panic

The psychological evaluation and other related tests done on Indian Army officers and jawans who were in the custody of China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA) for at least 60 hours, if not more, have given significant insights into the minds of Chinese soldiers who were a part of the action in the Galwan Valley that took place on 15 June.

These 10 men, who include two Majors and two Captains, were in “surprisingly” high spirits and upbeat even after spending more than two days in the custody of China’s People’s Liberation Army.

Inputs accessed by The Sunday Guardian post the debriefing of these 10 men, revealed that the outnumbered and “unarmed” (as the rules required them to be) Indian troops, rather than retreating in view of the huge number of Chinese soldiers, grabbed the improvised clubs and rods that the Chinese were using to batter Indian soldiers, and used the same to kill “at least” 20 Chinese soldiers and officers at patrol point 14.

“This was one reason for the high morale of our troops who came back to us on Thursday. Our men were captured after they chased the Chinese into their area of domination, with the intention to kill them after hearing of the loss of their CO, Colonel Santosh Babu. The Chinese soldiers, seeing the unexpected attack from our men, started fleeing and running back to their area and were followed by our men, who were then captured”, the official stated.

The debriefing of the 10 men has also revealed that the Chinese soldiers were in a state of shock and fear after the Indian soldiers replied with “sheer fighting force” to the treacherous attack by the Chinese. During the next 60 plus hours, the Chinese soldiers were highly anxious about a possible retribution from the Indian side and were in “panic-mode”. “They (Chinese soldiers) were very scared during the time our men were in their captivity. They had witnessed raw fighting spirit just hours before, as executed by a few of our men and the Chinese soldiers were anticipating the same treatment from a much larger number of our men in the next few hours”, said an official source, who is aware of the findings of the debriefing.

According to intelligence agency sources, there was a lot of resentment on Chinese social media platforms such as Weibo over what happened to the PLA men who lost their lives on the night of 15 June. “People are sharing pictures of the funeral procession of Indian soldiers and their cremation which was done with full state honours, and are asking what happened to their own men. Not a single information has been released identifying the names and ranks of the PLA men who died on 15 and 16 June. This is causing a lot of discussions on local social media platforms”, the official added.

These revelations have confirmed the much talked about military hypothesis that the Chinese army, which has not been engaged in any real military operation that involves real opponents—and not just simulated war games which China does “loudly” for the entire world to notice—is more than likely to falter in real battlefields because they do not have any experience of what happens during a real war. “They, for the first time, on the night of 15 June, came across the real face of the Indian Army, which despite being outnumbered, inflicted fatalities on their opponents. The Chinese soldiers were horrified by what they saw”, said the official quoting a portion of the debriefing session. Troops in India and the United States, on the contrary, have been engaged in real wars and battles for decades now.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 21 Jun 2020 22:57

krishna_krishna wrote: However I disagree with some piece, Karakoram Highway may be at this point just a dirt road but the end goal is strategic road completely secure and bypassing the Indian Ocean where there shipping can be interdicted or choked. The way they are doing salami slicing with papers from their loud pieces like India never existed as a country they want complete balkanization of India as a long term plan. That is the strategic objective in long term with short term of nibbling vantage points.

Best observation. China does not just view India as a competitor or threat, which is superficial and amateurish reading.

China has a long term objective in balkanisation of India since India could not be converted into their pliable colony like Pakistan (which would have been a possibility had UPA and commies continued to rule). For Pukis, it is ideological. For Chinese, they would love to own Andaman and Nicobar islands to secure Malaca straights, which is not possible as long as India remains united and strong. If India were balkanised, they would have a reliable route through Myanmar and rule IOR. Balkanisation of India is their long term strategic objective.

khan · Post by **khan** » 21 Jun 2020 23:01

Armuan wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7rNOHc6h1U
Interesting views from Subramanian Swamy.
...
He says a big contributor for this standoff is driven by the differences/power play between PLA and CCP. He says PLA, unlike CCP, is not interested in politics otherwise and they never were.
...

Xi spent years purging the PLA & putting his hand-picked people in there. His information might be dated.

RamSuresh · Post by **RamSuresh** » 21 Jun 2020 23:04

Venkarl wrote:Found this Gem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZkByrLayqw

Tweeted to major channels, journalists and analysts

Dear Venkat

I dont think this is a news report. Seems more sinister. I think NDTV was asked to verify independently by chinese; and possibly GoI was asked to publicly admit to the deal through such channels

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 21 Jun 2020 23:06

Amazing to see great leadership by Col.Babu. Patrol point 14 in my opinion as mark of gratitude should henceforth be referred to as Santhosh point

Nalla Baalu · Post by **Nalla Baalu** » 21 Jun 2020 23:10

Deans wrote:A request to those of you here who have read my book - `2022, India's two front war'.
Though a hardcore military read meant mainly for enthusiasts, such as this forum, sales are picking up due to the current situation.
Royalties from the book go to our army battle casualties fund.

There is a guy I've clashed with on another forum - possibly Pakistani, who has trashed the book in a review on Amazon.in While the occasional bad review is a fact of life, this is my only bad one and done with malice. If any of you have read an enjoyed it, may I request you to visit that review on
https://www.amazon.in/2022-Indias-two-f ... B07Q29P3M1 and comment or report the poor review, if you feel it is unjustified.

Done, saar. Got kindle edition. You are very kind!

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 21 Jun 2020 23:14

suryag wrote:Amazing to see great leadership by Col.Babu. Patrol point 14 in my opinion as mark of gratitude should henceforth be referred to as Santhosh point

Prefer 16Bihar. Recognize the regiment in entirety

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 21 Jun 2020 23:17

Philip wrote:IT has been the best channel on the issue thus far.
The debate today with Kishore Madhubani, an eminent US analyst ,etc., was excellent.The rise of Asia after a few centuries of European intervention ,when China and India were the world's two largest economies, is inevitable says he. War between India and China only benefits the US. China's hegemonic attitude however is leading it into conflict situations . China and India have to drcide what the relationship should be but as Saran said,500 million young Indians will be affected by China's treachery for years to come. The message in short was that
India has to counter China from a position of strength and this involves building up a robust military and networking with other nations equally threatened by China.

Kishore Mahbubani is not a US analyst he is a Singaporean who is completely Pro-China. Throughout his argument was that 21st century is Asia's century and China is going to lead it so other countries should accept China's hegemony.

Throughout the program he was continuously trying to peddle snake oil that it is in India's best interest in tying up with china and not become a member of the US camp.

Was again and again peddling BS that India should ignore what china is doing in the last few years but see the situation for the last 1800 years when China and India were the top two economies of the world. He said China never threatened India then (and thereby allowed India to be prosperous). What was not pointed out by the other speakers was that China did not attack India because it was not in a position to do so due to the Himalayan mountains. They did not have the capability or the technology to overcome that or else the situation would have been totally different.

He also tried to dissuade India by saying India should not burn bridges with China and not reply on the Quad too mush as Australia may be anti china today but tomorrow there will be another government in Australia. Similarly China may cut a deal with USA so India should not what china is doing for the last few years but see what china did with India in the last 1800 years.

In between he tried to bring the totally non related Global warming point to paint USA as a villain who will go against India. I was again surprised the other two speakers did not counter this by bringing into equation the Nuclear deal that was enabled for India by the USA to end India's reliance on fossil fuels with China trying to actually block India and continuously Vetoing India's entry into NSG.

All in all Kishore Mahabubani tried his best to make India see the benefits(of which there are none) in trying to be the Yes men of China.
There is no doubt he must be paid some serious $$ for the expert spin that he puts all chinese actions.

Iyersan · Post by **Iyersan** » 21 Jun 2020 23:19

Was watching the interview of General Ved Malik on India Today some minutes back. The good general literally stated we will head to war all along LAC and the event is premeditated military assault and not a routine border patrol fight.

Gen Malik reposed full faith in the professionalism of the IA and said we can give PLA a bloody nose

My write up above might appear plainspeak to many but my impression of Gen Malik is that of a man who measure his words and then speaks. We will see a border flare up very very soon and we need to be prepared for I feel PAK AND CHINA will do a combined assault

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 21 Jun 2020 23:20

Sure Sir, I was bowled over by the leadership he showed in leading the troops he could have taken a back seat send a lieutenant/captain/major but he himself went that shows the courage and commitment hence the request to name it as Santhosh point. Every troop in the future should be reminded of his leadership when they see that name and am sure it will spur them further(like bana top) Sad to lose such great quality officers

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 21 Jun 2020 23:22

RamSuresh wrote:
Venkarl wrote:Found this Gem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZkByrLayqw

Tweeted to major channels, journalists and analysts
Dear Venkat

I dont think this is a news report. Seems more sinister. I think NDTV was asked to verify independently by chinese; and possibly GoI was asked to publicly admit to the deal through such channels

Saar...this is a video from 2010-11. UPA Govt banned construction of any posts or residential places along Demchok border areas.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZkByrLayqw[/youtube]

I was only trying to make it more obvious that it was INC doing the salami slicing on behalf of Chinese

Iyersan · Post by **Iyersan** » 21 Jun 2020 23:24

https://twitter.com/scorp18th/status/12 ... 88226?s=21

Russia is ready to deliver 12 Sukhoi Su-30 MKI and 21 MiG-29 fighter jets to India within a week's time
adding more power to #IndianArmy

Can someone confirm?

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 21 Jun 2020 23:30

Only part of Kishore Madhubani argument one buys is that India should not play Unkils game in Asia. We have to be tactful but we cannot suffer territorial losses. The ball is in China's court. They simply cannot relentlessly grab their neighbours territory and then cry "don't let uncle sam in". It works both ways.

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 21 Jun 2020 23:31

I have uploaded a report - "To defend in the plateau needs a strong comprehensive national strength" (translated from Chinese to English via google) prepared by Wang Shichun, Observer Network Military Observer. It has a comparison of military strength and the Chinese view how they see our military.

https://www.scribd.com/document/4664485 ... ina-Report

I will delete it after a day, it is a long read if you want either download it or search online.

khan · Post by **khan** » 21 Jun 2020 23:31

So, thinking out loud, if there is a fight, it will start in the Depsang Plains (which seems to be the DBO area). Does anyone know anything about the area? Are there mountain passes at the periphery of the LAC that India can use to bottle up the Chinese?

Some kind of authoritative writeup would be much appreciated.

nam · Post by **nam** » 21 Jun 2020 23:32

Iyersan wrote:Was watching the interview of General Ved Malik on India Today some minutes back. The good general literally stated we will head to war all along LAC and the event is premeditated military assault and not a routine border patrol fight.

Gen Malik reposed full faith in the professionalism of the IA and said we can give PLA a bloody nose

My write up above might appear plainspeak to many but my impression of Gen Malik is that of a man who measure his words and then speaks. We will see a border flare up very very soon and we need to be prepared for I feel PAK AND CHINA will do a combined assault

We will end up with a border war, don't know when, but it will be. With the Chini camping on the lake and breaking the "no fire" agreement, it is bound to happen that one of the patrol will be shot.

The only question is the scope of the fight. The Chini in all probability will get to fire the first round. After we should not loose the opportunity to throw the kitchen sink at the PLA unit on the entire LAC. Push them back specially in ladakh to as much as our LAC claim line, before the ceasefire call.

Right away create defensive position at the new points. And wait for the next round.

nam · Post by **nam** » 21 Jun 2020 23:34

Oh, from the real Chini mouthpiece.. People's daily.

The boycott call seems to be hurting...

https://twitter.com/PDChina/status/1274746557615747075

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 21 Jun 2020 23:40

abhik wrote:Skardu is interesting, it is at an altitude of 2200m so there will be some loss of aircraft takeoff/landing performance but nowhere as much higher than Tibet or even Leh (3500m and above).

Also looking at airfield on google they appear to be building a new runway (It already has one ~3Km runway and another ~2Km runway). Given there are only ~8 HAS and no fighters visible out in the open, may be this upgrade was ment for the Chinese to use?
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.3407374 ... !1e4?hl=en

Would not all this option of using Skardu come to a nought if India saturates the area with SAM batteries? Order the new AKASH NG (vocal for local, make in India yada yada etc etc)

Iyersan · Post by **Iyersan** » 21 Jun 2020 23:43

Ramana Sir... situation very very serious. Two front will be opened by next week. This is by mapping info.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 21 Jun 2020 23:45

Karan M wrote:I spent a fair bit of time with both PRC and Taiwanese folks online and IRL, and I echo Ravi's write-up. It is spot on.

Indian's are seen as inferior, caste-ridden, primitive, poor people.

The fact that we are challenging them is simply intolerable for their pysche.

This also means that we should not put too much store into theories about propping up Taiwan as a bulwark against the PRC, etc., as their view of us is likely similar. Just deal with the big bully directly, and work with those who are at the periphery like Vietnam or Mongolia..

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 21 Jun 2020 23:45

Iyersan wrote:https://twitter.com/scorp18th/status/12 ... 88226?s=21

Russia is ready to deliver 12 Sukhoi Su-30 MKI and 21 MiG-29 fighter jets to India within a week's time
adding more power to #IndianArmy

Can someone confirm?

Has there been even once single official source confirming that we are close to signing this deal? One weeks time just sound ridiculous even if they were giving us their in-service fighters, we won't have a chance to even "kick the tires" within that time. Also obviously they will want payment "within a week" - which will be to the tune of $1.5Billion at least

IMO this type of news comes out (lifafa journalists) about India buying their latest tin can or what ever, before any major delegate visit to Russia or the other way round (unfortunately some of these turn out to be true eventually, but I hope not this time).

Y I Patel · Post by **Y I Patel** » 21 Jun 2020 23:50

Aldonkar wrote:
Leonard wrote:New Bridge in Galwan valley ..

https://twitter.com/MarkKumar3/status/1 ... 36/photo/1

This is the recently built Major Chewang Rinchen bridge over the Shyok, not the new Bailey Bridge over the Galwan. It enables all-weather crossing of the Shyok well north of the confluence of Galwan (and a bit to the south of Murgo). If the DSDBO Road is the lifeline to DBO, this bridge is the jugular.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 21 Jun 2020 23:54

RKumar wrote:I have uploaded a report - "To defend in the plateau needs a strong comprehensive national strength" (translated from Chinese to English via google) prepared by Wang Shichun, Observer Network Military Observer. It has a comparison of military strength and the Chinese view how they see our military.

https://www.scribd.com/document/4664485 ... ina-Report

I will delete it after a day, it is a long read if you want either download it or search online.

Already deleted? It says that it' no longer available.

sudarshan · Post by **sudarshan** » 21 Jun 2020 23:58

RaviB amazing write-ups.

sanjayc wrote:‘Post Galwan battle, Chinese soldiers were in a state of panic’

New Delhi: The psychological evaluation and other related tests done on Indian Army officers and jawans who were in the custody of China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA) for at least 60 hours, if not more, have given significant insights into the minds of Chinese soldiers who were a part of the action in the Galwan Valley that took place on 15 June.

...

The debriefing of the 10 men has also revealed that the Chinese soldiers were in a state of shock and fear after the Indian soldiers replied with “sheer fighting force” to the treacherous attack by the Chinese. During the next 60 plus hours, the Chinese soldiers were highly anxious about a possible retribution from the Indian side and were in “panic-mode”. “They (Chinese soldiers) were very scared during the time our men were in their captivity. They had witnessed raw fighting spirit just hours before, as executed by a few of our men and the Chinese soldiers were anticipating the same treatment from a much larger number of our men in the next few hours”, said an official source, who is aware of the findings of the debriefing.

...

These revelations have confirmed the much talked about military hypothesis that the Chinese army, which has not been engaged in any real military operation that involves real opponents—and not just simulated war games which China does “loudly” for the entire world to notice—is more than likely to falter in real battlefields because they do not have any experience of what happens during a real war. “They, for the first time, on the night of 15 June, came across the real face of the Indian Army, which despite being outnumbered, inflicted fatalities on their opponents. The Chinese soldiers were horrified by what they saw”, said the official quoting a portion of the debriefing session. Troops in India and the United States, on the contrary, have been engaged in real wars and battles for decades now.
https://www.sundayguardianlive.com/news ... ZV.twitter

This is very interesting - not surprising, but the confirmation of what we suspected, is welcome. Seems like even Chinese war-games might be along the lines of:

They have X men and Y aircraft, we have 2X and 2.4Y, so victory is guaranteed!

No allowance for fighting spirit, which comes from actual battle experience. All their game scenarios might be dangerously theory-bound, with little modulation from practical inputs. So that makes sense - they had superior numbers in their unprovoked assault, so they automatically assumed they would prevail. The numerically inferior Indian force grabbing their own weapons and fighting back against the odds was so unexpected and shocking to them, that they simply turned tail! And then spent an uneasy 60 hrs (that we know of, they're probably still shivering behind their equivalent of dhotis) waiting for retribution from an even larger Indian force.

Will they learn? Hope not. An introspective enemy is way more dangerous than an assumption-bound one. Or if they learn, hopefully it is the principle of not messing with the IA. One of their assumptions (numerical superiority guaranteeing victory) seems to have crumbled in front of their eyes, in any case.

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 22 Jun 2020 00:00

Thats strange ... once more

https://www.scribd.com/document/4664508 ... ncjj1ev37w

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 22 Jun 2020 00:06

Porkis might be salivating at the possibility of a war, they dont know as people how much we can rally behind our forces, if the Iranian baseej could face the iraqi guns with koran in their hand we are 100x more than that. Come on guys bring it on, we will not let go off a good fight.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 22 Jun 2020 00:09

Iyersan wrote:https://twitter.com/scorp18th/status/12 ... 88226?s=21

Russia is ready to deliver 12 Sukhoi Su-30 MKI and 21 MiG-29 fighter jets to India within a week's time
adding more power to #IndianArmy

Can someone confirm?

The MKI variant has the advanced radar and avionics that are not on Russian Su-30s in service. If these aircraft are to arrive, then they would be from Russian inventory. I highly doubt the Russians will supply India this quickly as they will play both India and China to maximize their ripoff profits.

RamSuresh · Post by **RamSuresh** » 22 Jun 2020 00:10

Venkarl wrote:
RamSuresh wrote:
Dear Venkat

I dont think this is a news report. Seems more sinister. I think NDTV was asked to verify independently by chinese; and possibly GoI was asked to publicly admit to the deal through such channels
Saar...this is a video from 2010-11. UPA Govt banned construction of any posts or residential places along Demchok border areas.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZkByrLayqw[/youtube]

I was only trying to make it more obvious that it was INC doing the salami slicing on behalf of Chinese

Dear Venkat,

Sorry that I wasnt clear in my post. I meant this is a confirmation message (or) a public admission by INC that they have done their part of the deal. NDTV is the conduit. I agree with you that INC was doing slicing on behalf of chinese.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 22 Jun 2020 00:13

RKumar wrote:Thats strange ... once more

https://www.scribd.com/document/4664508 ... ncjj1ev37w

PLA propaganda.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 22 Jun 2020 00:14

Vips wrote:
abhik wrote:Skardu is interesting, it is at an altitude of 2200m so there will be some loss of aircraft takeoff/landing performance but nowhere as much higher than Tibet or even Leh (3500m and above).

Also looking at airfield on google they appear to be building a new runway (It already has one ~3Km runway and another ~2Km runway). Given there are only ~8 HAS and no fighters visible out in the open, may be this upgrade was ment for the Chinese to use?
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.3407374 ... !1e4?hl=en
Would not all this option of using Skardu come to a nought if India saturates the area with SAM batteries? Order the new AKASH NG (vocal for local, make in India yada yada etc etc)

There are always tactics and counter tactics, we should not oversimplify the the war based on a few silver bullet weapons (honestly I don't think any thing we have or anything we are getting, including Rafale/S-400 etc are silver bullets). 2 front war will be a slog, will be fought with a broad spectrum of weapons, tactics, and most importantly people which will decide the outcome.

GopiD · Post by **GopiD** » 22 Jun 2020 00:17

RaviB wrote:
The best profile of Xi is this one from wikileaks https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/09BEIJING3128_a.html

Very informative posts on the Chinese psyche Ravi. Thanks for taking the time & efforts to write it up.

Also, the wikileaks page is a treasure trove of info on Xi Jingping. I will try to summarise it. Think that it is important know ones enemy.

A longtime Embassy contact and former close friend of Politburo Standing Committee Member and Vice President Xi
Jinping has shared with PolOff his first-hand knowledge of Xi's family background, upbringing, early adulthood, and
political career, as well as his impressions and assessments of Xi's personality and political views. The information was
acquired in multiple conversations over a two-year period 2007-2009. The contact is an American citizen of Chinese
descent who teaches political science at a U.S. university (protect), hereafter referred to as "the professor."

According to the contact, President Xi Jinping is "exceptionally ambitious," confident and focused, and has had his "eye on the prize" from early adulthood.

Unlike many youth who "made up for lost time by having fun" after the Cultural Revolution, Xi "chose to survive by
becoming redder than the red." He joined the Party and began mapping out a career plan that would take him to the top of
the system.

Xi is supremely pragmatic and a realist, driven not by ideology but by a combination of ambition and "self-protection."

Xi is a true "elitist" at heart, according to our contact, believing that rule by a dedicated and committed Communist Party leadership is the key to enduring social stability and national strength.

Our contact is convinced that Xi has a genuine sense of "entitlement," believing that members of his generation are the "legitimate heirs" to the revolutionary achievements of their parents and therefore "deserve to rule China."

Xi is not corrupt and does not care about money, but could be "corrupted by power,"

Xi at one point early in his career was quite taken with Buddhist mysticism, displaying a fascination with (and knowledge of) Buddhist martial arts and mystical powers said to aid health.

The contact stated that Xi is very familiar with the West, including the United States, and has a favorable outlook toward the United States. He also understands Taiwan and the Taiwan people from his long tenure as an official in Fujian Province.

Xi's father, Xi Zhongxun, was a communist guerilla leader in northwest China in the 1930s, when Mao and the CCP leaders reached Yan'an at the end of the Long March. Xi Zhongxun was purged during the Cultural Revolution and spent time in prison, according to the professor.

Xi Jinping joined the CCP in 1974 even while his father was still in prison. He carefully laid out a career plan that would maximize his opportunities to rise to the top levels of the Party hierarchy, first becoming a PLA officer in the late 1970s and then serving in a variety of provincial leadership positions, progressively rising through the ranks.

The professor said Xi's first degree was not a "real" university education, but instead a
three-year degree in applied Marxism.

Xi was the middle child in a family of three children that included an older sister and a younger brother, all of whom were apparently from his father's second marriage

Xi Jinping's first marriage was to Ke Xiaoming,the daughter of China's 1978-1983 ambassador to Great Britain, Ke Hua. The couple fought "almost every day," the professor said, and the marriage ended when Ke Xiaoming returned to England

The professor remarked that he thought Xi's "
distant
" quality contributed to the couple's divorce.

Xi later married a famous PLA singer.

With his father having been politically rehabilitated and rapidly regaining his power, Xi Jinping could have continued to rise quickly in the Central Party apparatus. Xi, however, reasoned that in the long run, staying in Beijing would limit his career potential. Moreover, in time, people would turn against him if he stayed in the Center. So in a calculated move to lay the basis for a future return as a Central leader, Xi asked for a position in the
countryside and, in 1982, became a local official in Shijiazhuang, the capital of Hebei province.

Xi told the professor at the time that he "would be back one day and told that going to the provinces was his "only path to central power." Xi "had promotion to the Center in mind from day one." Xi knew how to develop personal networks and work the system, first using his father's networks and later building his own.

The professor on
repeated occasions painted a portrait of Xi Jinping as an ambitious, calculating, confident and focused person who in early adulthood demonstrated his singleness of purpose. Xi joined the Communist Party while his father still languished in a Party prison for alleged political crimes.

Xi was reserved and detached and "difficult to read," said the professor. He had a "strong mind" and understood power, but "from day one, never showed his hand."

Xi Jinping could not talk about women and movies and did not drink or do drugs. Xi was considered of only average intelligence, the professor said, and not as smart as the professor's peer group.

the professor said, Xi was "not cold-hearted." He was still considered a "good guy" in other ways. Xi was outwardly friendly, "always knew the answers" to questions, and would "always take care of you."

Xi and other first-generation princelings derisively refer to people with non-Party, non-elite, commercial backgrounds like Hu Jintao as "shopkeepers' sons," whose parents did not fight and die for the revolution and therefore do not deserve positions of power.

Xi knows how very corrupt China is and is repulsed by the all-encompassing commercialization of Chinese society, with its attendant nouveau riche, official corruption, loss of values, dignity, and self-respect, and such "moral evils" as drugs and prostitution, the professor stated.

Xi also knows Taiwan and the Taiwan people very well, the professor said, noting that Xi was in Fujian province for more than twenty years. Attracting Taiwan investment to Fujian was an important part of his accomplishments as a Xiamen official.

khan · Post by **khan** » 22 Jun 2020 00:22

Mort Walker wrote:
RKumar wrote:Thats strange ... once more

https://www.scribd.com/document/4664508 ... ncjj1ev37w
PLA propaganda.

Agreed, doesn't seem to be a serious piece.

RaviB · Post by **RaviB** » 22 Jun 2020 00:28

KLNMurthy wrote:Ravi_B I hope you will write up your 2-part post as an article for publication. Your credentials as a Chinese language speaker make yours a specially valuable perspective.

I would be happy to but the publication venue makes a big difference. I am an academic and there's a requirement for me to be neutral, which basically means I cannot openly say anything from an Indian perspective. However if anybody wants to publish this, I would be happy to edit it or publish it anonymously. I published something on Siachen and it was a struggle. Normally there are 2 reviewers for such articles, I had 5 anonymous reviewers. I basically had to fight word by word. For something as well known as the fact that Pakistan supports terrorism, the reviewers said I am biased and should remove that. Then I kept it and cited Musharraf's autobiography and an interview as a reference to support my assertion.

But I was planning to publish something about the LAC even before this entire incident. It will be very boring and dry so nothing for the normal public.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 22 Jun 2020 00:36

RKumar wrote:Thats strange ... once more

https://www.scribd.com/document/4664508 ... ncjj1ev37w

After skimming through it I'd say it more propagandu (or delusional) rather than serious analysis.