India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 22 Jun 2020 00:42

RKumar wrote:Thats strange ... once more

https://www.scribd.com/document/4664508 ... ncjj1ev37w

Kumar ji,
Thank you for sharing this. The Author seems to be hyper convinced that material superiority, infrastructure developed and the physical abilities of their soldiers will lead to easy domination and certain victory. What is notable is their complete belief that India is the aggressor, who insists in conflict despite incurring heavy losses.

No doubt India's years of neglect and non-assertion of its territorial limits has bred this view in the minds of the Chinese.

This piece reads like a propaganda directed at convincing his own countrymen "tout va bien, Madame la Marquise". An over confident and non-introspective enemy is good for us.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 22 Jun 2020 00:43

^^The only thing of note in this propaganda piece is the confidence that the Chinese audience can be expected to find it reasonable.

The Chinese themselves tell us much about what they think of Chinese ability to think independently. From inability of Chinese to access the global internet, to elections being a reactionary process. It is certainly reassuring.

RaviB · Post by **RaviB** » 22 Jun 2020 00:46

Armuan wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7rNOHc6h1U

Interesting views from Subramanian Swamy. This was posted on the 18th. Many may not like or share his views, but gives a perspective. Some good questions at the end. Unable to agree on some of his views, but he has made some very astute observations in the past in political matters.

He says a big contributor for this standoff is driven by the differences/power play between PLA and CCP. He says PLA, unlike CCP, is not interested in politics otherwise and they never were.

~11.45 - Chinese have crossed the LAC
~17.30 - Says we will have to go to war
Is very confident of our victory. Says Chinese will not open another front in Arunachal or Sikkim. Opines that Pakistan would not be allowed to play, courtesy of the US. However someone posted earlier that 40 J10s are rumored to have landed in Skardu.

He has dealt with Chinese in the past. RaviB, would love your inputs if you have time to see this video. Your 2 part piece is brilliant! Very informative. Thank you.

thank you for sharing this video, I just finished watching it, very interesting and I would recommend everyone to watch it.

The thing with Dr Swamy is that he is a very learned man but he forgot to learn the most important thing vidya dadati vinayam. When he is not talking about himself, he is a very astute speaker.

I was very much struck by his idea of offering China a Kunming-Calcutta connection in exchange for them abandoning PoK. The Chinese want an alternative connection to the sea and the Aksai Chin-Pok-Gwadar route is simply too long. Kunming-Calcutta would make a lot more sense for them and also help us choke off Pakistan once they lose the little value they have for the Chinese. It would be a brilliant quid pro quo and certainly something to keep in mind. Dr Swamy of course says that the chances of that happening anytime soon are zero.

He also made a very important point about a possible disconnect between PLA and the Politburo. It is indeed possible and would explain a lot of things. His argument is that the PLA wants this LAC expansion and Xi doesn't. The PLA general is a rising star and quite powerful, so maybe there may be some truth to this. That would also explain why the last excursion wasn't called off for Xi's visit. I think Doklam ended when India threatened to cancel Li Keqiang's planned state visit. So it's possible that back then the politburo pressured or bargained with the PLA to put off a confrontation with India for a later time and place.

This would however also mean that any war would remain localised, since Xi and friends would like to see the PLA weakened and a star general cut down to size. In China it's really too much speculation. But in any case it's pretty well known that the MFA doesn't really have too many powers of persuasion. they do what they are told. But if India wants to make a deal with China, it would have to be with Xi. If the MEA wants to delay till October (Swamy says that's the best time to start a war) then of course they should keep talking at the foreign minister level.

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 22 Jun 2020 00:58

Mort Walker wrote:
RKumar wrote:Thats strange ... once more
https://www.scribd.com/document/4664508 ... ncjj1ev37w
PLA propaganda.

I read through the whole article. What a load of bullshit! Yes it is typical Chinese propaganda. Nothing happened to them and they killed 20 of ours. Oh, and "Indian Programmers at Google" made changes to the LAC at Galwan. And did you know, Chinese soldiers - during their off time - work out on gym equipment in full uniform, fur hat included?

There are things for us to learn. We need more long range rocketry and we need better facilities for soldiers needs. But other than that, I am quite satisfied that we are good to go against lizard.

RaviB wrote:I was very much struck by his idea of offering China a Kunming-Calcutta connection in exchange for them abandoning PoK. The Chinese want an alternative connection to the sea and the Aksai Chin-Pok-Gwadar route is simply too long. Kunming-Calcutta would make a lot more sense for them and also help us choke off Pakistan once they lose the little value they have for the Chinese. It would be a brilliant quid pro quo and certainly something to keep in mind.

I don't see anything brilliant in this suggestion from Dr Swamy. If all they need is a port access, they already have ports in Myanmar which can help them avoid the Malacca straits. Why would they cross over into India, then through Bangladesh and then back to India for Calcutta port?

If India is the final destination of their goods, then yes it would be useful. But that route falls under BCIM/BIMSTEC corridors which we are pursuing anyway (mainly, in my view, because it forces Bangladesh to give us overland rights to NE states).

RaviB · Post by **RaviB** » 22 Jun 2020 01:03

schinnas wrote:If and when war breaks out, Chinese will fight from Pakistan border. It makes no sense for them to use their airforce from Tibet but Skardu and other bases offer good altitude and logistics.

Any war with China from now onwards will be two front war given Pakistan is officially a Chinese colony now. They may force Pakis to do many dirty work and tax IAF.

According to the interview of Dr Swamy, the Pak Fauj is in Unkil's pocket or rather that their pocket's are in Unkil's hands. He is convinced that they won't do anything. Also there is absolutely no loyalty between the two, China has never supported Pakistan during any war. China definitely wouldn't ask Pakistan for help but the Pakistanis might volunteer to do the dirty work unless Unkil keeps them quite

I think Pakistan may be classified as divided into two, the Chinese colony and the American cantonments

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 22 Jun 2020 01:06

Explained: India's New LAC Engagement Rules Which Give Army Commanders Full Freedom To Counter China

Explained: India's New LAC Engagement Rules Which Give Army Commanders Full Freedom To Counter China

Swarajya Staff
Jun 22, 2020

India has changed rules of engagement at LAC after the Galwan Valley clash and given Army commanders full freedom to put in use any instrument under his command for tactical operations as deemed fit in the situation, reports The Print.

India has informed China about the changed rules both at military and diplomatic levels.

“The rules of engagement have changed. The Army commander on the ground will decide on the tactics to be used to counter any kind of aggression. There is nothing now that binds the commander from taking certain kinds of tactical decisions,” The Print quoted a source as saying.

“The Chinese have been told both at diplomatic and military levels that rules of engagement have changed. India will counter forcefully any kind of misstep or violence by China,” said another source.

Use of firearms

Both the 1996 and 2005 agreements between India and China ban the use of firearms in face-offs at the border.

Article 6 of the 1996 agreement says that “neither side shall open fire or conduct blast operations within 2 km of the Line of Actual Control”. Therefore, the practice on ground was that not all carried loaded firearms while on patrol.

This doesn’t mean that the soldiers remain unarmed. All troops on border duty always carry arms, especially when leaving post, informed external affairs minister S Jaishankar.

The soldiers involved in the 15 June clash with Chinese troops were also carrying firearms. They did not open fire as they were following border agreements between the two countries, the government said on Thursday.

The Galwan valley clash on Monday (15 June) evening was carried out without firearms, and involved rods and wooden spikes with nails on them, stonepelting and physical clashes.

Reportedly, after the 5 May clash at the Pangong Tso lake, the soldiers posted there were supplied with light anti-riot gear, including body armours, shields and fibre lathis.

Under the new Rules of Engagement, the restrictions on the use of firearms won’t apply on the commanders who will have full authority to respond to “extraordinary situations” using all resources at their disposal.

“With the changes in the ROE, there’s nothing that limits the ability of Indian commanders to take whatever action they deem necessary on the LAC. ROE have been amended to address the brutal tactics being employed by Chinese troops,” HT quoted an official as saying.

nam · Post by **nam** » 22 Jun 2020 01:11

RaviB wrote:
I was very much struck by his idea of offering China a Kunming-Calcutta connection in exchange for them abandoning PoK. The Chinese want an alternative connection to the sea and the Aksai Chin-Pok-Gwadar route is simply too long. Kunming-Calcutta would make a lot more sense for them and also help us choke off Pakistan once they lose the little value they have for the Chinese. It would be a brilliant quid pro quo and certainly something to keep in mind. Dr Swamy of course says that the chances of that happening anytime soon are zero.

The issue I have with such deals is that this kind of suggestions seem to come only from Indians. For Pak there are lot of such suggestions. Give them that, give them this, in return they will smile at you.

I am yet to hear any such "give that" to India either in Pakistan or China.

We need to understand that India job is not to "manage" expansionist neighbour's dreams and expectation. Today we give the Chinese a road to the sea, in return for PLA stopping their annual land grab for the next 2 years, tomorrow they will ask for something else.

We need to understand, Pak & China are our adversaries. They are not here to make deal where both parties will be happy. They are here to take their share, only that and nothing else.

For once let the country works towards facing the adversary and win against them. The US is powerful,as it always know's it adversary and will go to any depth to gain technological & financial overmatch!

We come with up suggestions.

khan · Post by **khan** » 22 Jun 2020 01:12

RaviB wrote:
According to the interview of Dr Swamy, the Pak Fauj is in Unkil's pocket or rather that their pocket's are in Unkil's hands. He is convinced that they won't do anything.

Honestly, India shouldn't be counting on either the point highlighted above or some theory about a CPC-PLA split, this type of thinking is very dangerous.

nam · Post by **nam** » 22 Jun 2020 01:16

The only leverage US will have on Pak will be F16 and financial. China is already replacing the F16s. The only thing pending is money, which should not be a problem.

People seem to forget Pak has been killing US servicemen in Afghanistan. What has US done?

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 22 Jun 2020 01:19

May be I should have added, ignore Indian military capabilities as we know it. But read about numbers they have on their side. Try to analyze what they think and what to expect in the field. At the end, what they think will translate into actions, tongue might lie but not behavior. Don’t concentrate on India numbers but on Chene

williams · Post by **williams** » 22 Jun 2020 01:26

nam wrote:
RaviB wrote:
I was very much struck by his idea of offering China a Kunming-Calcutta connection in exchange for them abandoning PoK. The Chinese want an alternative connection to the sea and the Aksai Chin-Pok-Gwadar route is simply too long. Kunming-Calcutta would make a lot more sense for them and also help us choke off Pakistan once they lose the little value they have for the Chinese. It would be a brilliant quid pro quo and certainly something to keep in mind. Dr Swamy of course says that the chances of that happening anytime soon are zero.

The issue I have with such deals is that this kind of suggestions seem to come only from Indians. For Pak there are lot of such suggestions. Give them that, give them this, in return they will smile at you.

I am yet to hear any such "give that" to India either in Pakistan or China.

We need to understand that India job is not to "manage" expansionist neighbour's dreams and expectation. Today we give the Chinese a road to the sea, in return for PLA stopping their annual land grab for the next 2 years, tomorrow they will ask for something else.

We need to understand, Pak & China are our adversaries. They are not here to make deal where both parties will be happy. They are here to take their share, only that and nothing else.

For once let the country works towards facing the adversary and win against them. The US is powerful,as it always know's it adversary and will go to any depth to gain technological & financial overmatch!

We come with up suggestions.

+1 You cannot negotiate trade with a gun pointed to your head and both these countries undermining us in every forum.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 22 Jun 2020 01:30

Guys, things are moving to second gear. First round we won (don't waste time reading or reasoning otherwise). That is now leading to 2nd round. Few news that looks like rumor are actually not

khan · Post by **khan** » 22 Jun 2020 01:42

fanne wrote:Guys, things are moving to second gear. First round we won (don't waste time reading or reasoning otherwise). That is now leading to 2nd round. Few news that looks like rumor are actually not

You mean the POK airbases?

Iyersan · Post by **Iyersan** » 22 Jun 2020 01:51

fanne wrote:Guys, things are moving to second gear. First round we won (don't waste time reading or reasoning otherwise). That is now leading to 2nd round. Few news that looks like rumor are actually not

Yes. Next week

Iyersan · Post by **Iyersan** » 22 Jun 2020 01:52

Skardu j10 still rumors it cannot be verified but Caps intensified.

It is learnt that close to 40 Chinese J10 fighter jets landed in Skardu air base in POK last night. @IAF_MCC is on its highest alertness.
https://twitter.com/pradiprsagar/status ... 17376?s=19

Larry Walker · Post by **Larry Walker** » 22 Jun 2020 01:59

And I think Modi knew about it since April. Lately in this time frame I find that spark missing in Modi when he on National TV. His messaging has remained consistent, but he somehow seems more serious and if I may say worried than I ever remember seeing him like this earlier.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 22 Jun 2020 02:03

Paki establishment's silence since May instead of their usual gloating when India is in a crisis is a sign that they are in on it.

vimal · Post by **vimal** » 22 Jun 2020 02:16

Will our super expensive Rafaels make the cut or we will keep them as hangar queens, in France.

Larry Walker · Post by **Larry Walker** » 22 Jun 2020 02:20

Pakis are in on it - but I don't think lizard has shared plans with them - else they will sell those plans to Unkil and EU. Lizard will pass on operational instructions to them which they will be expected to follow. Trump's statement that situation between India and China is very tough and that they have a big problem came as recent as Friday, after PoW exchanges and supposed dis-engagement. Of things were cooling down or atleast not going to heat-up further - the statement would have not been an pessimistic open ended one. So yes - something big is coming.

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 22 Jun 2020 02:30

Pakis are well , pakis ! On BRF the term "paki" is used as a synonym for a conniving, untrustworthy, rogue, backstabbing low life. That said they will do a "paki" on the chinese too and wont stick their neck out except for keeping the LOC hot and pushing some cannon fodder into kashmir. Directly opening a 2nd front against India means pakis going firmly into the chinese camp, which the pakis wont do. At the end of the day your typical paki crore commander likes his homes in Toronto, NYC, Dubai or London and does not desire to settle in Shanghai or Beijing, he wants his kids to go to Harvard, Yale, Oxford and not to Shanghai university. This is no different than the chinese doing a "paki" on pakis in 1971,1999, 2001, beyond technical help and material help for a price, they wont help the pakis if pakis find themselves in hot soup with India.

khan · Post by **khan** » 22 Jun 2020 02:35

Shiv Aroor keeps saying that the IA is focused on Pangong Lake fingers. IMO that is a side-show compared to what could happen in the Depsang plains & there has been clear signaling of this, with the Chinese talking about their light tanks, India responding with Mig-29 & Apache in Leh, then the Chinese (perhaps) responding by moving J-10 to POK.

D.Mahesh · Post by **D.Mahesh** » 22 Jun 2020 02:57

tsarkar wrote:General P Ravi Shankar shares more details.

https://www.gunnersshot.com/2020/06/the ... ew=classic

There is clarity that the...

Gen.Shankar's take is as a rule well-reasoned.

D.Mahesh · Post by **D.Mahesh** » 22 Jun 2020 03:05

Roop wrote:The following four YT links are remarks / assessments from four different IA generals (retd.) who have served in this theater and know what they are talking about....

While IA has actually fought the TSPA for 70 years, apart from 1962, not many kinetic encounters with the CPC grunts. TSPA ORs ack to be tenacious & well trained, though not v.well led - particularly v.poor quality of NCOs. But CPC grunts & mandarins are said to be not as good as TSPA. Everyone remembers the South Sudan dustup isn't it?

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 22 Jun 2020 03:08

Larry Walker wrote:And I think Modi knew about it since April. Lately in this time frame I find that spark missing in Modi when he on National TV. His messaging has remained consistent, but he somehow seems more serious and if I may say worried than I ever remember seeing him like this earlier.

Would not this have resulted in uptick in arms and ammunition procurements or earlier changes in ROEs to not put soldiers in harms way?

Though I do agree that they would have feared that something is up since banning flights in January after only witnessing the first case. But they probably didn't know exactly how Chinese would use the virus.

vimal · Post by **vimal** » 22 Jun 2020 03:11

Iyersan wrote:Skardu j10 still rumors it cannot be verified but Caps intensified.

It is learnt that close to 40 Chinese J10 fighter jets landed in Skardu air base in POK last night. @IAF_MCC is on its highest alertness.
https://twitter.com/pradiprsagar/status ... 17376?s=19

Isn't Skardu within the range of Pinakas?

khan · Post by **khan** » 22 Jun 2020 03:13

vimal wrote:
Iyersan wrote:Skardu j10 still rumors it cannot be verified but Caps intensified.

It is learnt that close to 40 Chinese J10 fighter jets landed in Skardu air base in POK last night. @IAF_MCC is on its highest alertness.
https://twitter.com/pradiprsagar/status ... 17376?s=19
Isn't Skardu within the range of Pinakas?

Its only 100km from Kargil, there are multiple ways to take it out if the balloon goes up.

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 22 Jun 2020 03:16

Ambar wrote:Pakis are well , pakis ! On BRF the term "paki" is used as a synonym for a conniving, untrustworthy, rogue, backstabbing low life. That said they will do a "paki" on the chinese too and wont stick their neck out except for keeping the LOC hot and pushing some cannon fodder into kashmir. Directly opening a 2nd front against India means pakis going firmly into the chinese camp, which the pakis wont do. At the end of the day your typical paki crore commander likes his homes in Toronto, NYC, Dubai or London and does not desire to settle in Shanghai or Beijing, he wants his kids to go to Harvard, Yale, Oxford and not to Shanghai university. This is no different than the chinese doing a "paki" on pakis in 1971,1999, 2001, beyond technical help and material help for a price, they wont help the pakis if pakis find themselves in hot soup with India.

There is a danger of miscalculation. If the Pakistanis start thinking they can get Kashmir, they wont hesitate to jump in.

The real problem is the Babus who did little when the TSP got the Amrams from Unkil. Hand India had 52 Meteor armed birds, it would have been another story. I was under the impression that the Israeli Jammers could jam them. I wonder if it is true.

Roop · Post by **Roop** » 22 Jun 2020 03:17

khan wrote:Shiv Aroor keeps saying that the IA is focused on Pangong Lake fingers. IMO that is a side-show compared to what could happen in the Depsang plains ...

I wouldn't worry about it. Shiv Aroor is saying what has been told to him by IA / GoI, i.e. it is a deliberate leak and SA himself is in on it. They probably want to send a false signal to PLA, i.e. lull them into a false sense of security. There is no way in hell that IA is somehow ignorant of the threat from Depsang or anywhere else; and if they were really preparing for action in the Fingers area, they wouldn't leak it to the media like that stupid Barkha Dutt move in the Kargil war.

Roop · Post by **Roop** » 22 Jun 2020 03:24

Nihat wrote:This account by shiv aroor and Co. Is a very well put together sequence of events that explain all the fragments of news we have heard till date.

Yes, it is very well written. Also, note that it confirms what India's MEA said in public a couple of days ago that (I am paraphrasing from memory here) "all personnel are accounted for, no one is POW or missing". In fact, these people were not prisoners, they were injured, being treated by the PLA and waiting for daylight to be safely evacuated to our side of the LAC. And a roughly similar number of PLA personnel were injured, waiting for evacuation and being treated by IA medics on our side of the LAC.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 22 Jun 2020 03:30

RaviB wrote: I was very much struck by his idea of offering China a Kunming-Calcutta connection in exchange for them abandoning PoK. The Chinese want an alternative connection to the sea and the Aksai Chin-Pok-Gwadar route is simply too long. Kunming-Calcutta would make a lot more sense for them and also help us choke off Pakistan once they lose the little value they have for the Chinese. It would be a brilliant quid pro quo and certainly something to keep in mind. Dr Swamy of course says that the chances of that happening anytime soon are zero.

From a PRC perspective, why would they choose this over say a route from Myanmar into China through Rangoon, relatively flatlands, and controllable state. The Kra Canal is another option. PLAN assets can provide cover.

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 22 Jun 2020 03:41

China seems to have a conflict with most of its neighbors

https://www.onlinemba.com/blog/economic ... ina-japan/

RaviB · Post by **RaviB** » 22 Jun 2020 03:47

nam wrote:
RaviB wrote:
The issue I have with such deals is that this kind of suggestions seem to come only from Indians. For Pak there are lot of such suggestions. Give them that, give them this, in return they will smile at you.

We come with up suggestions.

His suggestion is that we get the Chinese to sell out the Pakistanis, so we crush them at our leisure. And we postpone our conflict with China. Splitting our enemies instead of having them working together is a win for us, isn't it? It's a far out idea but if it breaks down the China-Pakistan nexus, it might be worth a try. Chinese would sell their sisters if the price was right (prostitutes are called "little sister" in chinese slang) so they wouldn't be worried about betraying the iron friendship or burying pakistan in the ocean.

RaviB · Post by **RaviB** » 22 Jun 2020 03:57

amar_p wrote:
RKumar wrote:Thats strange ... once more

https://www.scribd.com/document/4664508 ... ncjj1ev37w
Kumar ji,
Thank you for sharing this. The Author seems to be hyper convinced that material superiority, infrastructure developed and the physical abilities of their soldiers will lead to easy domination and certain victory. What is notable is their complete belief that India is the aggressor, who insists in conflict despite incurring heavy losses.

This piece reads like a propaganda directed at convincing his own countrymen "tout va bien, Madame la Marquise". An over confident and non-introspective enemy is good for us.

What I keep being fascinated by is the fact that even this propaganda chap has zero access to Chinese info and is relying on Indian media to tell him the truth, which he then interprets to fit the propaganda narrative (Indian casualty numbers true, Chinese casualty numbers false).

I think this is such a fantastic opportunity just screaming to be exploited. Imagine if the Pakistanis had to rely on Indian media for info on Balakot. The Chinese have no idea about the difference between Republic Tv and Hindu and NDTV. Imagine the possibilities. A leak to NDTV about an elite corps of supercommandos with the codename Dhruv sneaking into China through Nepal. NDTV carrying a headline "Oli denies giving India permission to attack China through Nepal". And all this time the Chinese sweating, running to block the friendship bridge, screaming abuses at Oli.

We are their eyes The possibilities are endless.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 22 Jun 2020 03:59

What happened at the India-China border clash? - Interview with Victor Gao

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySJ3pTM ... e=youtu.be

Even the chinese propoganda guy does not believe that Chinese govt assertion that PLA did not have any deaths in the clash.

khan · Post by **khan** » 22 Jun 2020 04:05

Rony wrote:What happened at the India-China border clash? - Interview with Victor Gao

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySJ3pTM ... e=youtu.be

Even the chinese propoganda guy does not believe that Chinese govt assertion that PLA did not have any deaths in the clash.

They have no choice, 20+ Chinese troops (maybe some dead bodies too) were on Indian soil for 3 days. You think everything wasn’t carefully cataloged & photographed?

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 22 Jun 2020 04:09

We have confirmed 83 death on Chinese side. However, internal Chinese assessment is higher, I guess 16 Biharis were not counting while killing (you can say they were in a rush).

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 22 Jun 2020 04:11

After the beating they have got the lizards cannot afford anymore to loose face and hence will not attempt any attack anywhere that Indians are on alert. The only way they think they can beat India now is through a 2 front war. We are mistaken if we think Pakistan is going to stay out of any india-China equation. They have been ruing missing out on not stroking trouble with India during the 1962 India china war. Pakis know with S400 coming to India starting next year this is the last chance they have with India and so the Porkis will jump on chinese shoulders to wage war on India. We have our task cut out. Question is will there be a 4th party to even out the odds?

It is interesting that USA has sent 3 aircraft carriers in the south China sea and Japanese navy is now getting active and has operationalized patriot batteries.

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 22 Jun 2020 04:39

Maj Rajpreet Singh Aulakh
@rajpreetaulakh
Most of the Chinese soldiers killed in Galwan belonged to Eagle Special Forces Unit .
8:04 AM · Jun 21, 2020

Jinan Military Region "Black Belle" and "Eagle" special forces. The Eagle Special Forces mainly conducts training in special reconnaissance and amphibious operations. Special forces soldiers perform upper body strength training every day to increase the endurance of the heart's blood vessels. Soldiers who passed 3,300 meters in 12 minutes were considered "passing"; if they completed 3,400 meters in 12 minutes, they were "good"; and after 3500 meters in 12 minutes, they were "excellent". The soldiers also practice traditional Chinese martial arts qigong and unarmed combat.

Not bad, not bad at all. The 16 Bihar soldiers were able to thrash these Special Forces from the Jinan region which has been amalgamated into the Eastern Theater Command. These soldiers came in from Eastern China to replace the regular troops at Galwan. So the India Today story is correct that Colonel Babu found "new soldiers" when they went to sort out the tent issue. Clearly the PLA sent in special forces trained in martial arts and un-armed combat to the Galwan front line because the ROE called for combat to be unarmed on the LAC but they were still no match for regular soldiers from 16 Bihar.

khan · Post by **khan** » 22 Jun 2020 04:48

I just got done reading another piece on Nitin Gokhale’s Bahrat Shakti blaming it all on “rogue commander” General Zhao Zongqi.

IMO, this is a fundamental misunderstanding of how the Chinese operate. Their Army is full of General Zhao’s pushing their own initiative, if it works, General Zhao gets a promotion & everyone takes credit (including Xi).

If it doesn’t work, then they’ll just scape-goat him (if there are any consequences at all) & find a new General who will try something else. The cycle will rinse & repeat - blaming one General for this is naive IMO.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 22 Jun 2020 05:06

ldev wrote:Not bad, not bad at all. The 16 Bihar soldiers were able to thrash these Special Forces from the Jinan region which has been amalgamated into the Eastern Theater Command. These soldiers came in from Eastern China to replace the regular troops at Galwan. So the India Today story is correct that Colonel Babu found "new soldiers" when they went to sort out the tent issue. Clearly the PLA sent in special forces trained in martial arts and un-armed combat to the Galwan front line because the ROE called for combat to be unarmed on the LAC but they were still no match for regular soldiers from 16 Bihar.

It is known that IA fields taller soldiers at the LAC to physically dominate Chinese, the height requirement for soldiers in China is 5 ft 2 in. Some Panjabi, Rajput , Jat or Andhra/ Telangana men I have seen are around 6 feet. And this is not rare.