India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

[NRao]

https://twitter.com/jam79922967/status/ ... 69281?s=21
Anger in Chinese media over NO respect for Ladakh dead soldiers

在中印边界冲突中， 印度死了20军人， 中国死了43人。 印度为烈士们，举办了国葬， 有名有姓， 庄严肃幕， 官方媒体报道和致敬。 但是， 在同一场争斗中国士兵们， 官方不报道， 不公布姓名。没有集体葬礼， 没存尊严， 只有军方派一个军人将死去战士的一个骨灰盒送回士兵的老家，令人烈士父母寒心！

Google translate

In the Sino-Indian border conflict, 20 soldiers died in India, and 43 people died in China. India has hosted state funerals for martyrs, famous and surnamed, solemn curtains, official media reports and tributes. However, in the same battle, the Chinese soldiers did not officially report or announce their names. There is no collective funeral, no dignity, only the military sends a soldier to send an ashes box of the dead soldier back to the soldier's home, which makes the martyrs' parents chill.

[NRao]

PLA can't release its casualties less than 20 bcoz d€ad b0d¡€s of 26 PLA troops hv been handed over to PLA by the Indian Army whose photography & videography also done.Apart from this,dozens of other PLA troops hv also KIA.This is the reason why PLA is not declaring its loss.

Tweet Global Times
@globaltimesnews
· 3h
The reason why China did not release casualties number is that China also wants to avoid an escalation. If China releases the number which is less than 20, the Indian govt would again come under pressure: observer twitter.com/globaltimesnew…

[pankajs]

That would be a very bad idea. Chinis will lose more than just face. All it's superpower dreams will evaporate into thin air. It will start a domino effect and that would be very very bad for them.

It will be advantageous for us. Without Chinis, Pakis will crumble. Two of the biggest thorns eliminated.

Lastly, they are arrogant, racist, scheming ********. I fully expect them to start some kind of conflict with the same mindset like Pakis did in 1965. Expect Operation wolf warrior soon.

This is where our geographic disadvantage handicaps us. For Chinese if they succeed in salami-slicing they win - if they fail in salami slicing they can still claim victory by stating that objective was to teach India a lesson. For India there is no piece of land within 100 kms of LAC on Chinese side which we can slice and it will lead to real loss (in terms of we controlling Chinese population or resources).

And even if we do - then the classic trap of given barely enough strategic lift of IAF - how will India maintain those positions?? On the other hand - no one can beat Chinese is sustaining any land that they can lay their hands on.

There is ... a very critical piece of Chinese territory about 100 km from Karakoram pass that will case a major upheaval in China if it is ever in the possession of India. The terrain too is very interesting at that point.

One just has to study the maps carefully ....

I had hinted it about 2 posts back on the last page.

[srai]

The problem with clandestine warfare is the soldiers don’t get the honor and respect by the nation they have given up their lives for. A lie to hide the covert affair leads to hundred other lies leaving the poor soldier's families to suffer in silence. Pakistan and China repeating their dishonor of the people who served and sacrificed for them. Shame.

[NRao]

Japan deploys ballistic missiles at China-facing border after land-grab clash with India

[pankajs]

China wanted to have the cake and eat it too and the previous ROE @ the LAC helped them on that count.

They could capture an Indian territory without firing a shot and India could either start a war or accept the new status quo. Given the cowardice risk aversion of previous dispensations, Chinese would have the land and the access to the Indian markets too. They liked it that way. It was a win-win for China and a loose-loose for India. China got used to winning without fighting.

Galwan has broken that mound with the unfortunate deaths. Now, even if China is willing to fight, it will end up with a lot of casualties and loss of access to the Indian market. There will be costs no matter what the outcome of a war.

Plus, Galwan has shown the Chinese that they wouldn't have it easy against India and will probably get a bloody nose in the bargain.

The Chinese calculation has just become much more complicated.

[pankajs]

The deployment/massing/reinforcement of forces and activation of Air forces just means that both sides are signalling that they will not budge from their respective positions.

A prolonged standoff will hurt Chinese interests in India more than Indian interest in China.

Galwan fracas has underlined the risk of having eye-ball to eye-ball deployment. The one who is posturing for the sake of propaganda is the one that risks the maximum with such deployment.

Galwan fracas, having re-shaped the RoE on the Indian side, also poses maximum risk to the side that is posturing for the sake of propaganda.

[Larry Walker]

Pankajji - it may have started as propoganda but has now devolved into face-saving - and now the aggressor has to show some victory since blood has been spilled. That will not be possible without a military campaign from Chinese side. So let's see.

[hanumadu]

But what about winter, rains and snow melt? Wouldn't the road wash away? I don't know! Maybe they will pour a $4itload of concrete

What if they don't need this road after this summer ?? Hint - once they salami slice the area around Depsang (and by some local accounts it is Leh) - they will not need to keep interdicting DSDBO and so they don't need to maintain the Galwan valley road. For us anyways going up the Galwan road will anyways not lead to any tactical vantage point.

How are they going to get their supplies then?

Going up the Galwan valley means pushing them further away from the SSN/DBO road.

[Mollick.R]

@RaviB jee Thanks a lot & congrats for those two excellent posts on china.

Part 2 and conclusion of previous post

How China sees itself

This might make me sound like a Pakistani, but the Chinese have nothing to even remotely match the Indian soldier's spirit. I just tried to think of how many of my Chinese acquaintances might be willing to die for their country and I honestly can't think of a single one. In case of India obviously I have family, friends, neighbors, one doesn't need more than 5 seconds to think of 10 people. The Chinese spirit comes from Han superiority and fear of their officers, especially the political officers. This means they are ripe for desertion, and if there are non-Han soldiers they can probably be used to create disorder within their armies. The han superiority also makes them afraid of barbarians. They are always scared by people with heavy beards and scary mustaches.

This highlighted part is contradictory to historical facts and my (basic) understandings about China.

As recent as in China Vietnam conflict during year 1979, external studies estimate around 26,000 PLA killed in action.
I'm not bringing Korea , Russia or Indo China war , Chinese loss figures.

So basically, we are saying that without a spirit for dying for motherland & just because of "Han superiority and fear of their officers, especially the political officers" they were able to get young bloods & manage war casualties ???
Your further comments will definitely help us.

PS:- Standing at 2020 I'm aware about about single child "little emperors" phenomena and its social /military effects on PLA. That a well written and documented part for several years.

[Larry Walker]

How are they going to get their supplies then?

Same route from where they will mount their offensive on Depsang plains. DSDBO road needs to be choked while the battle is on - once they capture that area(as per their wet dreams) - they don't need to run through Galwan valley to maintain logistics.

[Mukesh.Kumar]

@RaviB jee Thanks a lot & congrats for those two excellent posts on china.

Part 2 and conclusion of previous post

How China sees itself

This might make me sound like a Pakistani, but the Chinese have nothing to even remotely match the Indian soldier's spirit. I just tried to think of how many of my Chinese acquaintances might be willing to die for their country and I honestly can't think of a single one. In case of India obviously I have family, friends, neighbors, one doesn't need more than 5 seconds to think of 10 people. The Chinese spirit comes from Han superiority and fear of their officers, especially the political officers. This means they are ripe for desertion, and if there are non-Han soldiers they can probably be used to create disorder within their armies. The han superiority also makes them afraid of barbarians. They are always scared by people with heavy beards and scary mustaches.

This highlighted part is contradictory to historical facts and my (basic) understandings about China.

As recent as in China Vietnam conflict during year 1979, external studies estimate around 26,000 PLA killed in action.
I'm not bringing Korea , Russia or Indo China war , Chinese loss figures.

So basically, we are saying that without a spirit for dying for motherland & just because of "Han superiority and fear of their officers, especially the political officers" they were able to get young bloods & manage war casualties ???

Mollick.R you have a point. However., I think RaviB is talking about recently with demographic changes of single child policy and rising affluence causing social change.

Still it's better not to assume too much of this advantage. Better have realistic view of the enemy. Let's not go with the belief that they will fold over at first taste of adversity.

[Larry Walker]

Mollick.R you have a point. However., I think RaviB is talking about recently with demographic changes of single child policy and rising affluence causing social change.

Still it's better not to assume too much of this advantage. Better have realistic view of the enemy. Let's not go with the belief that they will fold over at first taste of adversity.

Gentlemen don't we keep hearing that almost entire Chinese diaspora overseas works like an extended RAW like entity and committed to gather whatever advantage they can provide to China through lying or stealing or espionage ?? And would they do that without having any nationalist or patriotic spirit in them ??

[Venkarl]

Guys just check Wikimapia ...

Zoom in to Karakora pass and follow the Chinese built NNE road from there for about 100 km. What do you people see?

Now from this point that we have traversed, ~ 100 km NNE of Karakoram pass, check 50 km east and west to understand the terrain.

Once the above is fully understood and digested, go back to the DBO and Depsang plains and imagine what would happen IFFFFFFFF the tanks stationed @ DBO were to cross the Karakoram pass, fully backed by the logistics moving over Darbuk–Shyok-DBO Road starting @ Leh.

Perhaps ... perhaps this is why the Darbuk–Shyok-DBO road becomes crucial and the necessity of the Chinese to sit at the top of Galwan valley / sit at Galwan/Syok junction to prevent any such scenario from unfolding in the future.

You have highlighted the advantage we have IFF we cross Karakoram Pass and the importance DBO road has to support such a mission if we decide to invade.

On the flip side, DBO is real close to Shenxianwan and Tianwendian.
Both these places with armored reinforcements and other bases in Depsang Plains (couldn't find any on maps)
http://www.ecoti.in/8DpD9Y

[img]
https://imgur.com/8CbYOsD
[/img]

In year or 2, Indian forces will have better defense equipment compared to what we have now
Above point also applies w.r.t logistics and connectivity. We will be better off from what we are today.
DBO will become a full time hard nut to crack in a year or 2 and will pose a significant threat to Karakoram and provide air cover to Siachen
China cannot afford to mess with us then.


My assumption is that Chinese gamed for a limited conflict to take DBO in the immediate or near future and so they planned to squeeze DBO road at Galwan valley which our valiant soldiers thwarted.
I guess they have been planning for this since we have landed C5 there in 2015. Everything else is a distraction.

P.S. I know that I have underestimated Indian response in the event of triple attack from Shenxianwan, Tianwendian and Depsang plains on DBO.
Chinese have underestimated our resolve to protect what is ours. So I was just thinking from their perspective.

[AjitK]

https://www.jansatta.com/national/india ... 2871/lite/



‘भारतीय सैनिक 300-400 ही थे पर अचानक दो-ढाई हजार चीनियों ने घेर लिया’, घायल जवान के हवाले से पिता का दावा'

बलवंत सिंह ने फिर घायल सैनिक के हवाले से बताया कि वहां हम 300-400 आदमी थे, वो 2000-2500 थे...उन्होंने अचानक रॉड, डंडे, पत्थर से हमला कर दिया, जबकि हमारे पास कुछ नहीं था। घायल सैनिक के सिर में चोट लगी है और 10-12 टांके आए हैं।

लद्दाख की गलवान घाटी में भारतीय सैनिकों और चीनी सैनिकों के बीच बीती 15 जून को हुई हिंसक झड़प में 20 जवान शहीद हो गए थे और बड़ी संख्या में जवान घायल हुए थे। अब एक घायल जवान के हवाले से उसके पिता ने बताया है कि ‘झड़प वाली रात 300-400 भारतीय सैनिकों को अचानक 2000-2500 चीनी सैनिकों ने घेर लिया था।

जवान के पिता ने बताया कि चीनी सैनिकों के पास रॉड, डंडे और पत्थर थे, जबकि भारतीय सैनिक निहत्थे थे।’ बता दें कि यह जानकारी घायल सैनिक सुरेंद्र सिंह के पिता बलवंत सिंह ने दी है। सुरेंद्र ने लेह स्थित अस्पताल से इलाज के दौरान अपने पिता को फोन कर यह जानकारी दी थी।

बता दें कि 15 जून की रात लद्दाख की गलवान घाटी में भारतीय सैनिकों और चीनी सैनिकों के बीच हिंसक झड़प हुई थी। इस झड़प में भारत के 20 जवान शहीद हो गए थे। इसी झड़प में राजस्थान के अलवर के रहने वाले जवान सुरेंद्र सिंह भी शामिल रहे। सुरेंद्र सिंह इस झड़प में घायल हुए और फिलहाल लेह स्थित अस्पताल में उनका इलाज चल रहा है।

तक एप के साथ बातचीत में सुरेंद्र सिंह के पिता बलवंत सिंह ने बताया कि कल 11-12 बजे की बात है अचानक मेरे पास फोन (सुरेंद्र सिंह) आया। मैंने हालचाल पूछा तो बताया कि ठीक हूं और अस्पताल में भर्ती हूं..लेह के आसपास।

बलवंत सिंह ने फिर घायल सैनिक के हवाले से बताया कि वहां हम 300-400 आदमी थे, वो 2000-2500 थे…उन्होंने अचानक रॉड, डंडे, पत्थर से हमला कर दिया, जबकि हमारे पास कुछ नहीं था। घायल सैनिक के सिर में चोट लगी है और 10-12 टांके आए हैं।

वहीं घायल सैनिक की पत्नी ने बताया कि ये लोग निहत्थे थे और वह पूरी तैयारी से आए थे। पत्नी ने बताया कि इसके बावजूद उन्होंने 2-3 चीनी सैनिकों को घायल कर दिया था।

बता दें कि गलवान घाटी में हुई हिंसक झड़प में जिस तरह से भारतीय जवानों को शहीद किया गया, उससे देश में चीन के खिलाफ काफी गुस्सा है। इस घटना के बाद भारत ने भी आक्रामक रुख अपनाते हुए सीमा पर अपने सैनिकों की तैनाती बढ़ा दी है और तीनों सेनाओं को हाई अलर्ट पर रखा है।

[AdityaM]

In the Sino-Indian border conflict, 20 soldiers died in India, and 43 people died in China. India has hosted state funerals for martyrs, famous and surnamed, solemn curtains, official media reports and tributes. However, in the same battle, the Chinese soldiers did not officially report or announce their names. There is no collective funeral, no dignity, only the military sends a soldier to send an ashes box of the dead soldier back to the soldier's home, which makes the martyrs' parents chill.

Chinese media is allowed to get angry?

[Venkarl]

<Snip>

Dear Venkat,

Sorry that I wasnt clear in my post. I meant this is a confirmation message (or) a public admission by INC that they have done their part of the deal. NDTV is the conduit. I agree with you that INC was doing slicing on behalf of chinese.

Sorry for misunderstanding you and yes I am in line with your thoughts.
btw..have we met before?

[Iyersan]

https://twitter.com/manishindiatv/statu ... 98530?s=19

राजपूत के लड़के भी 10 मार रहे हैं लेकिन गिन एक रहे हैं।अभी “वो” ‘बजरंग बली की जय ‘नहीं भूले थी कि कान में आपने “बोलो बजरंग बली की जय” दुबारा बुलवा दिया है।

।विश्वास नहीं हुआ ,चिंता मत करो हो जाएगा।


There has been a new incident more killing probably of PLA. Not confirmed

[RKumar]

Eleven will hit an escalation button. there should no more illusion about it. They lost 100 and mostly from 1 child families. He has to answer them even though it is all brutal. How would he motivate his army if he does not show win? Wiebo (Chinese Twitter) is agog with depression. So China will escalate and that is a given. When and how is at their timing. India has options. (1) mercilessly hit Pakis and take land towards CPEC (2) do a surprise attack and occupy where Chinese are vulunerable.

Weaknesses - IAF.

Sir, forget the fancy stuff. We have to ensure that our IA has enough men, ammunition, warm clothes, food, kerosene, artillery support and infrastructure with proper logistics to beat the (gene human weaves. We have some unfinished business from 1950-1962. Hopefully, GoI has issued orders for mass production of locally produced Dhanush, Pianka, Aakash, Namica along with spares n ammunition. We are able to produce all these items locally and they will change the outcome.

Expect no sympathy and give non, it a war there are no surprises but better strategies, plans and executions.

[RaviB]

@RaviB jee Thanks a lot & congrats for those two excellent posts on china.

Part 2 and conclusion of previous post

How China sees itself

This might make me sound like a Pakistani, but the Chinese have nothing to even remotely match the Indian soldier's spirit. I just tried to think of how many of my Chinese acquaintances might be willing to die for their country and I honestly can't think of a single one. In case of India obviously I have family, friends, neighbors, one doesn't need more than 5 seconds to think of 10 people. The Chinese spirit comes from Han superiority and fear of their officers, especially the political officers. This means they are ripe for desertion, and if there are non-Han soldiers they can probably be used to create disorder within their armies. The han superiority also makes them afraid of barbarians. They are always scared by people with heavy beards and scary mustaches.

This highlighted part is contradictory to historical facts and my (basic) understandings about China.

As recent as in China Vietnam conflict during year 1979, external studies estimate around 26,000 PLA killed in action.
I'm not bringing Korea , Russia or Indo China war , Chinese loss figures.

So basically, we are saying that without a spirit for dying for motherland & just because of "Han superiority and fear of their officers, especially the political officers" they were able to get young bloods & manage war casualties ???
Your further comments will definitely help us.

PS:- Standing at 2020 I'm aware about about single child "little emperors" phenomena and its social /military effects on PLA. That a well written and documented part for several years.

I'm speaking of the current situation and my acquaintances are mostly from the more affluent and educated section. And obviously the current generations are mostly single children. In the countryside more children were allowed, but even there families were usually only allowed to have one son. A family losing their son would be a very big deal. In India the father of one of our soldiers said he was proud of his son's sacrifice and his younger son was waiting to join the IA. In China, there is no younger son and two families lost their spoilt and beloved child. Of course, there is also no recognition from the PLA, so not even the consolation of being honoured.

In the Korean war Chairman Mao's own son died (of dysentry, but still). At the time of the Vietnam war, China was poor and communist. So there was for one desperation due to which people joined, also conscription but they were also very committed to communist ideology. In fact they regularly had to attend classes on communism and memorise Chairman Mao's quotation. A lot of the losses (more than 4 times that of Vietnamese forces) were possibly also due to poor tactics like human wave attacks and not necessarily bravery.

Today, the CPC doesn't actually command loyalty. People become soldiers because those from the countryside might find it more lucrative than working in a factory in Guangzhou. Han chauvinism/nationalism may be a sufficient motivation but I'm not sure. Then the fact that they are fighting in Tibet, it is difficult to overstate the contempt the Han have for Tibetans and Tibet. In India soldiers are fighting to protect their motherland, in China soldiers would think of this as dying to protect penguins in Antarctica.

It's one thing to look cool on a Global Times video and another to tie a broken arm with a belt and jump into a machine gun nest. I'm sure they have their ways of building up morale but from the little we know in recent times, the fighting spirit is missing. For instance, in the Sudan peacekeeping fiasco, they were making videos but when the militia fired at them, they abandoned post and also abandoned their weapons. And did not respond to the calls for help of foreign aid workers. Indian peacekeepers had to take care of the entire situation the next day. The incident happened in 2016 and shows that they aren't too concerned with the their izzat.

This might have been due to a number of factors including failure of command but at least gives a pointer into how they might respond. It is not sufficient to rely on when starting a war, but is useful to keep in mind. This impression also fits with the reports we had from our soldiers.

[RamSuresh]

<Snip>

Dear Venkat,

Sorry that I wasnt clear in my post. I meant this is a confirmation message (or) a public admission by INC that they have done their part of the deal. NDTV is the conduit. I agree with you that INC was doing slicing on behalf of chinese.

Sorry for misunderstanding you and yes I am in line with your thoughts.
btw..have we met before?

I dont think so. I am 100% armchair

[Iyersan]

https://twitter.com/manishindiatv/statu ... 98530?s=19

राजपूत के लड़के भी 10 मार रहे हैं लेकिन गिन एक रहे हैं।अभी “वो” ‘बजरंग बली की जय ‘नहीं भूले थी कि कान में आपने “बोलो बजरंग बली की जय” दुबारा बुलवा दिया है।

।विश्वास नहीं हुआ ,चिंता मत करो हो जाएगा।


There has been a new incident more killing probably of PLA. Not confirmed

Gaining traction

[ArjunPandit]

Mollick.R you have a point. However., I think RaviB is talking about recently with demographic changes of single child policy and rising affluence causing social change.

Still it's better not to assume too much of this advantage. Better have realistic view of the enemy. Let's not go with the belief that they will fold over at first taste of adversity.

Gentlemen don't we keep hearing that almost entire Chinese diaspora overseas works like an extended RAW like entity and committed to gather whatever advantage they can provide to China through lying or stealing or espionage ?? And would they do that without having any nationalist or patriotic spirit in them ??

their patriotism is also due to care for the families back home in china and also the lucrative job offers that their relatives and they have got in return....once in US, except japs, avg or below avg asians (excluding paxis) have a tendency to put their home country down....but this is just me based on my limited sample....

[AshishA]

I'm speaking of the current situation and my acquaintances are mostly from the more affluent and educated section. And obviously the current generations are mostly single children. In the countryside more children were allowed, but even there families were usually only allowed to have one son. A family losing their son would be a very big deal. In India the father of one of our soldiers said he was proud of his son's sacrifice and his younger son was waiting to join the IA. In China, there is no younger son and two families lost their spoilt and beloved child. Of course, there is also no recognition from the PLA, so not even the consolation of being honoured.

In the Korean war Chairman Mao's own son died (of dysentry, but still). At the time of the Vietnam war, China was poor and communist. So there was for one desperation due to which people joined, also conscription but they were also very committed to communist ideology. In fact they regularly had to attend classes on communism and memorise Chairman Mao's quotation. A lot of the losses (more than 4 times that of Vietnamese forces) were possibly also due to poor tactics like human wave attacks and not necessarily bravery.

Today, the CPC doesn't actually command loyalty. People become soldiers because those from the countryside might find it more lucrative than working in a factory in Guangzhou. Han chauvinism/nationalism may be a sufficient motivation but I'm not sure. Then the fact that they are fighting in Tibet, it is difficult to overstate the contempt the Han have for Tibetans and Tibet. In India soldiers are fighting to protect their motherland, in China soldiers would think of this as dying to protect penguins in Antarctica.

It's one thing to look cool on a Global Times video and another to tie a broken arm with a belt and jump into a machine gun nest. I'm sure they have their ways of building up morale but from the little we know in recent times, the fighting spirit is missing. For instance, in the Sudan peacekeeping fiasco, they were making videos but when the militia fired at them, they abandoned post and also abandoned their weapons. And did not respond to the calls for help of foreign aid workers. Indian peacekeepers had to take care of the entire situation the next day. The incident happened in 2016 and shows that they aren't too concerned with the their izzat.

This might have been due to a number of factors including failure of command but at least gives a pointer into how they might respond. It is not sufficient to rely on when starting a war, but is useful to keep in mind. This impression also fits with the reports we had from our soldiers.

Thanks for the two posts on the Chinese thinking. And for the above one too. The more we know the enemy the better we can pound them.

How do you think the situation is shaping? Are they thinking about war or will they risk war to "teach us a lesson" ? And will their public support in the war?

[rkirankr]

Mazaa Agaya

VIDEO: https://twitter.com/drapr007/status/1275002216105967616 ----> This is how our soldiers are taking care of Chinese guests these days. Some soldiers are wearing masks, means the video is new. Probably before 15 June.

[AshishA]

Mazaa Agaya

VIDEO: https://twitter.com/drapr007/status/1275002216105967616 ----> This is how our soldiers are taking care of Chinese guests these days. Some soldiers are wearing masks, means the video is new. Probably before 15 June.

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CBumDzspyf ... vki24x2p15

Full 5 min video. Let these video reach weibo. Let's see how the lizards react to this. I hope more and more videos are coming.

[Venkarl]

Mazaa Agaya

VIDEO: https://twitter.com/drapr007/status/1275002216105967616 ----> This is how our soldiers are taking care of Chinese guests these days. Some soldiers are wearing masks, means the video is new. Probably before 15 June.

#donttouchme fattu kahinka

Looks like this is Brawl#1

[darshan]

Does India have any publicly stated position on whether it will attack the country hiding behind the curtains? For scenarios where Chinese get pakistanis to launch missiles and airstrikes. Will India send response back to both or only pakis?

[Iyersan]

I am getting to hear that core commander level talks in Moldo failed. China wants india to move out of Galwan and give away finger 4 too.

#BREAKING: China continues to remain adamant on withdrawal from #GalwanValley & Finger 4 area in the Corps Commander level talks today. The dialogue unfortunately has not been as per the expectations, official confirmation awaited. India too remained firm. #BreakingNews

https://twitter.com/AshutoshGhazal/stat ... 56736?s=19

[RaviB]

Another interesting article about what's going on in weibo. Apparently the Chinese are demanding to know how many of their soldiers died. Can anyone who is on weibo confirm if it's actually true?

https://www.indiatoday.in/amp/india/sto ... ssion=true

I haven't had time to check weibo recently but at least two days ago there was some questioning of the fact that their casualties had not been disclosed. I had posted something about that earlier viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7810&p=2439523

What's also fantastic is that all their info is coming from Indian media.

This offers us great opportunities for psy-wars. I mean they are using DrAPR's twitter account to get news, we could exploit this very well.

The two angles I think we could use very productively:

1. Kind Indians soldiers and Cruel Indian soldiers There is a picture of Indian soldiers giving water to a Chinese soldier. If there were some fake images of Chinese soldiers killed by us, it would be perfect to build a narrative of being nice to surrendered soldiers and being terrifyingly cruel to those who attack. All Chinese soldiers have cellphones and spend time on SM. Just posting this on a few twitter accounts will mean that the Chinese will find and share it. If it breaks the morale of even one single Chinese soldier at no cost to us, it would be worth a try. Unfortunately I can't message DrAPR but if someone can pass on this idea it would be great.

2. Rogue General Zhao Bharatshakti did a profile on him and I think we need to push the rogue PLA narrative. From the little that I know it is likely that Xi and Zhao are closely connected, both are princelings and have a Sha'anxi connection. There are rumors that currently there are two factions in the CPC, princelings like Zhao and Xi (and his former rival Bo Xilai) and "shopkeepers children" like former president Hu. Chinese public opinion tilts against the princelings due to their extreme corruption and the doings of their children. Even though it is highly likely that Xi has personally approved this operation and the general is closely connected to him, it would be nice if we could push the "rogue general" narrative. That would force Xi to either publicly side with him or give him a way to transfer the general. One TV debate discussing experts commenting on the likelihood of a Rogue general and CPC infighting based on zero knowledge would already create FUD in China. FWIW, I myself have paper credentials that would make me sound authoritative while having zero clue about the situation.

China is ham-handedly trying to influence Indian public opinion as well. They had Global Times push a piece about how India's economic nationalism was the going to hurt it. Then when it got panned for being Global Times, People's Daily, which is more respectable copy-pasted the same story to push it.

[Mods please excuse me for discussing psyops, but this is very much a part of PLA warfare and it would be a pity if we did not use it as part of our own strategy. We have so many TV channels, media outlets, everything that the Chinese depend on for information, we have bollywood, special effect studios and tiktok users. These are all fantastic assets and most importantly we have a Chinese audience starved of information from their own side.]

[Vivasvat]

https://twitter.com/jam79922967/status/ ... 69281?s=21
Anger in Chinese media over NO respect for Ladakh dead soldiers

Translation:
In the Sino-Indian border conflict, 20 soldiers died in India, and 43 people died in China. India has hosted state funerals for martyrs, famous and surnamed, solemn curtains, official media reports and tributes. However, in the same battle, the Chinese soldiers did not officially report or announce their names. There is no collective funeral, no dignity, only the military sends a soldier to send an ashes box of the dead soldier back to the soldier's home, which makes the martyrs' parents feel chilled!

[Cyrano]

If that is China's position, then why come for talks? They are stalling, buying time to review their next attack plans based on 15-16 experience.

Its like a "negotiation" meetings with some Procurement fellows who repeat the same impossible demand in each meeting, hoping the seller will get fed up and give something to close and move on. Only GoI ain't sellin' nothin' man!

[nam]

Zhoa is the not WTC commander. He moved out in April. There is a new guy, Xu Quiling

[nam]

In the fist videos, we can see that the Chinis are very eager to fight. They start off and then get whacked.

The sense of superiority and how dare these Indians come here, shows in the attitude.

I fear this attitude might be there right up to WTC and might kick off something.

[darshan]

China occupies Rui village of Nepal and annexes it to Tibet: Report
https://www.opindia.com/2020/06/china-o ... -to-tibet/

While the landlocked country of Nepal has been at loggerheads with India over the supposed encroachment of regions such as Kalapani, Lipulekh, and Limpiyadhura, China has reportedly occupied the Rui village in Gorkha district of Nepal. As such, the village has now been annexed to Tibet, an autonomous region of China. As reported by Nepal-based newspaper, Khabarhub, the aggressive stance of Nepal’s Prime Minister KP Sharma Oli towards India has been an eyewash to suppress the events in its own territory.

[vishvak]

..bo (Chinese Twitter) is agog with depression. So China will escalate and that is a given. When and how is at their timing. India has options. (1) mercilessly hit Pakis and take land towards CPEC (2) do a surprise attack and occupy where Chinese are vulunerable.

Weaknesses - IAF.

Sir, forget the fancy stuff.
..
Expect no sympathy and give non, it a war there are no surprises but better strategies, plans and executions.

So Chinese planned of punishing peripheral democracy and such shyt and now this escalation may precipitate war. But I wonder why Pakis made that mistake of sitting with Chinese, after building muscle, and flight plans for forward fighter jets etc., fighting right enemy (India) and now sitting with China. It is like Karna syndrome before war and squatting with China just because it is too bad to even discus due to past karma.

If things start to escalate then better be prepared to have right stuff sorted out (exchange prisoners or info atleast) before hatred built over generations annihilate values and self worth covered by pride.

China wants india to move out of Galwan and give away finger 4 too.

and why would Pakis care about this.

[RaviB]

Thanks for the two posts on the Chinese thinking. And for the above one too. The more we know the enemy the better we can pound them.

How do you think the situation is shaping? Are they thinking about war or will they risk war to "teach us a lesson" ? And will their public support in the war?

I know as little about the current situation as anyone else. But the way they have been censoring posts and the official news they've been pushing points in the direction of reluctance to escalate. The warmongering posts are being removed relatively quickly, the racist ones not so quick. There was some jubilation on day 1 and 2 when they heard about our casualties. There were also justifications for why the CPC / PLA wasn't releasing figures. One popular theory was that it was to avoid inflaming nationalist opinion in India. Indian casualties were due to poor medical infrastructure (3 were shot and 17 froze to death). Then there was some reconsideration and the thought that they might have lost PLA soldiers and apparently recently it has shifted to a comparison of how Indian soldiers are being honored and Chinese ones are being hidden with just a box of ashes sent to their families.

I think at the moment, there is no mood of "teach a lesson". After Doklam there was regular warmongering and there was a din of "teach the lesson" on Chinese SM. That's missing right now. The public opinion is also massively shaped by the 50 cent army, so the relatively subdued mood right now is either because
a) they haven't decided whether to escalate
b) they genuinely want to deescalate because their plans have gone for a six due to the unexpected Indian reaction

Their public also seems not to want a war right now. There are rumors of 20% unemployment, massive migrant and rural crisis and a CV outbreak in Beijing. But ultimately CPC will decide and then manipulate public opinion accordingly. I see a massive contrast to Doklam right now on both official and unofficial sides in terms of low levels of warmongering.

[Deans]

If the non-use of IAF in 1962 was a big blunder, this time my biggest doubt concerns the use of Surface to Surface missiles by us. I do hope that the GOI or armed forces do not hold back on missile strikes in the hope of quid pro quo from the chinkis & pakis, it would be a grave mistake. I seem to be getting the sense here that any missile strikes by us might result in hordes of H-6 bombers off loading cruise missiles against our cities. Be that as it may, the fact remains that immediate missile strikes will stop chinki & paki advances in vulnerable sectors where arty/CAS might not reach in time whereas bombing our cities will not help the chinkis or pakis except causing chilla-chilli by idiots on the idiot boxes. So I really hope we use our brahmos and other missiles liberally.

Technically, we did use the IAF in 62, for airdropping supplies.
The more probable reason we did not use it in a ground attack role (not just because Nehru thought Indian cities would be bombed) was that we had no doctrine for close air support in the mountains. Our pilots had next to no experience in flying over Arunachal. Finding the location to be attacked would have been difficult, let alone hitting anything in the rugged terrain, when the targets are mostly light infantry.
In the current environment, we will face missile attacks and attacks on cities even if we might Pakistan. If we have an Air Force, we have to use it.

[Venkarl]

Found this Gem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZkByrLayqw

Tweeted to major channels, journalists and analysts

To think for decades India put up with this crap.

I tweeted this video to Ram Madhav too
https://twitter.com/Kevian17/status/1274737581310107653
https://twitter.com/Kevian17/status/1274737995317305344

BJP started its media war

https://twitter.com/BJP4India/status/12 ... 6942269441

[darshan]

Sino-India Border Row: Govt Grants Emergency Financial Powers To Armed Services To Bolster Operational Readiness
https://swarajyamag.com/insta/sino-indi ... -readiness
The Government has empowered all three services with financial powers of up to Rs 500 crore per procurement project to procure ammunition, weapons and military hardware at a short notice to bolster their operational readiness along the LAC.

To reduce the red tape and inordinate time delays in procurement, the three services have also been allowed to procure equipment from a single vendor.