Wuhan Coronavirus Resource Thread

[darshan]

Common theme seems to persist here that it's a political issue and not a health issue.


Rajasthan: FIR filed against Baba Ramdev, NIMS Director and others for claiming that Patanjali’s Coronil can cure Coronavirus
https://www.opindia.com/2020/06/fir-fil ... ronavirus/

[darshan]

Delhi Covid-19 Update — Some Good News, Under New Management
https://swarajyamag.com/ideas/delhi-cov ... management
As can be seen in the chart above, testing rates in Delhi (the broad, green line) followed a downward trend from early May to early June. This negligent decline was reversed, and started to rise from mid-June, once the Central government took over.The positive effect of this fresh infusion of efficiency and direction is quite dramatically visible in a cumulative testing chart below. Note how sharply the green line deviates upwards from 18 June onwards:

Read it all on the actual website.

[mukkan]

This seems well coordinated PR exercise, love affair of MSMs with Kerala maybe they picking a state government who is a vocal critique of GOI.

Anyone noticing a spate of new articles appearing in well known international news media praising Kerala's model ? Although i am not quite certain what "Kerala Model" is compared to other states, and while it is true that Kerala's number of cases-to-deaths is low , there are several other states that either matches or beats this ratio. Besides, north Kerala relies heavily on neighboring Karnataka's coastal districts for healthcare. Looking at how UP,AP, Telangana and WB numbers have started to rise now , i think its fair to say we wont peak anytime before September.

[Zynda]

One question for doctors. In Dr. Sandhya's video, on lung exercises she mentions blowing up a balloon. I have a 3 ball Respiratory Spirometer Lung Exerciser (dad had bought it a while ago).



Can I use it instead of balloon? The mechanism involves inhaling instead of exhaling. Does inhaling work & create the same affect as exhaling? Probably yes, but I want confirmation from an experienced professional. Any pointers on how many reps of the exercise should be done per day?

[arshyam]

If one wants to build lung capacity, I'd recommend Pranayama. Far safer and well proven. There are many good online tutorials and live streaming classes on how to do it correctly (I recently attended one conducted by AoL).

[pandyan]

Zynda saar - deep breathing is one of the trickiest things to master. seems relatively easy, but very hard to do it properly

arshyam saar mentioned one good option.

another option is humming 1,2,3,4,5. See this video (starts at 1:45 minute)


third option is nadi shuddhi (start at 58 minute )


Try all these options and see which one works best for you.

[vijayk]

From Whatsapp

If I were Infected - Dr M Vijaya Gopal MD


I will try my best to stay calm and strongly believe that I will be cured and in the process, get immune to Covid 19.

I will keep telling myself that 80-85 % of cases of Covid 19 are self limited or minimally symptomatic and so there is nothing to worry about.

I will take all precautions to see that others don’t get it. By proper self quarantine for a minimum of 2 weeks.

I Will drink 3 Ltrs of water per day. Will avoid cool water, Ice creams, junk foods, spicy foods, etc.

I Will take Vit C, Vit D and Zinc that are known to boost Immunity. (We are already on these for few months).


I will add Turmeric + Cinnamon + Pepper + Ginger (latter 3 in ground form) all in small quantity to a cup of hot water and will consume this drink @ 2-3 cups daily. It tastes good too.

I will wash mouth and gargle 4 times a day using Betadine Gargles Solution (diluted). This can help suppress the virus in throat, esp in the initial phases.

I Will try to read good books / watch TV and keep myself peaceful, happy and busy. It is a well known fact that a ‘Positive mind’ helps combat any illness.

Hyper Anxiety and worries are known to suppress the Immune system. They can increase heart rate, blood pressure, blood sugar levels and all these are not good.

Exercise activates the Immune system. Simple walking and breathing exercises (if that can be easily done) will certainly help.

Vigorous exercises and Ramdev baba style pranayamam are very unsafe and I will not practice especially when ill.

I will take a warm water shower and brush teeth at least twice a day. Personal hygiene is obviously very important.

Finally, I want my Physician to think like me putting himself in my shoes and do what he would do for himself.


Some basic medical monitoring that can be done at home initially. This may not be applicable to all and needs a physician guidance at least over mobile.

I will watch my Oxygen Saturations regularly using a portable Finger probe Pulse Oximeter. This is widely available in market (all surgical stores have them) costing between Rs 2,000 -3,000/-

Oxygen saturation’s are normally between 97-99 % on Room Air. They can occasionally and transiently dip to 95-96 %. If the Oxygen Saturations are dipping to less than 95 % and maintaining at that level for longer periods, it is important to inform and alert a Physician.
It might warrant hospitalisation especially so if the saturation’s are dropping continuously.

If such a drop in saturations are observed, I will submit myself to a caring Physician / Pulmonologist in a bigger hospital.

Having utmost faith in the treating Physician helps a lot. Leave it to him and he will do the best.

Admitted patients all don’t get critical. In a majority of cases, It is only to administer Oxygen and start specific anti viral and other helpful adjuvant therapies early and monitor the response to treatment critically.

Only 2-5 % of patients turn very critical and may end in fatality despite best efforts. Those patients with associated / Co existing medical problems that are poorly controlled (mostly due to non compliance of patients with mediation), patients who are addicted to smoking, Zarda and alcohol and those who are already immuno-compromised due to other reasons, are likely to face such critical outcomes.

As we all read in earlier posts, time was all we could buy by effective lockdown for 2 months. But as is very well said, Time is most valuable and Time heals almost everything.

We now have some clarity in managing these cases and definitely are at advantage at least over the last few days.

This illness can be defined and classified in many ways to highlight the management strategies.

Initial Viral phase: Here Virus is multiplying rapidly in Lungs, Gastro intestinal Tract and kidneys mostly.

During the early stages with Oxygen desaturation (when Pulse Oxygen Saturation are sipping below 94-95%,

* Oxygen Inhalations - early can help better than later,
* We have Favipiravir Tablets that are supposed to be helpful,
* Can Start on Low Molecular Weight Heparin that prevents platelet aggregation and unnecessary blot clotting that happens in this infection. This clotting tendency is known to be a killer in significant number of cases.
* During critical stages, Remdesivir can help better. This is relatively freely available in hospitals now.

Subsequently, I.e, after the Viral Phase, follows exaggerated Immune Response (this is inappropriate release of excessive chemicals from our immune system which does more harm than good. (They are originally produced with a hope of eliminating the virus but they cannot do that).

This causes flooding of alveoli with proteinaceous fluid and results in difficulty in breathing and Gas exchange in lungs. (similar to drowning in a river)

This inflammatory process can now be suppressed with Steroids (Recent Recovery study that highlighted the role of Dexamethasone is promising.

* This Steroid (Dexamethasone) administration is in my opinion better started 2-3 days after the Anti Viral Drugs are started. (This is purely my opinion as steroids can suppress our fight against the virus)
* Convalescent plasma (plasma containing Anti bodies against the Corona virus) obtained from Patients who successfully recovered from this infection can also help at almost all / various stages of infection. This is also available if a donor is willing and is being tried successfully at Gandhi Hospital.
* IL 6 (Interleukin 6, a mediator of inflammation can also be damaging to Lungs, Kidneys and Gastro intestinal tract. This can also be blocked by Tocilizumab. This is also available (though expensive) and may help when IL 6 levels are found in high levels in blood.
* A Curative Medicine will not be far from today, a preventive Vaccine is likely in December 2020 / Jan 2021. Let’s be optimistic.
* But, if we can escape the problem for another 2-3 months, we may never be at risk of requiring medical help. As can be seen from events in all the Corona affected nations thus far, the Virus should start regressive path in 1 and 1/2 to 2 months from now on in our country.
* So, staying away from it is the best option. The real lockdown is needed now. A self imposed lockdown is best as Governments are unable to do it beyond what they have already done.

[DrRatnadip]

One question for doctors. In Dr. Sandhya's video, on lung exercises she mentions blowing up a balloon. I have a 3 ball Respiratory Spirometer Lung Exerciser (dad had bought it a while ago).



Can I use it instead of balloon? The mechanism involves inhaling instead of exhaling. Does inhaling work & create the same affect as exhaling? Probably yes, but I want confirmation from an experienced professional. Any pointers on how many reps of the exercise should be done per day?

-Spirometer is better than simple balloon..

-Usual recommendation is set of 10 breaths , 5 times/ day..

-Ventilation perfusion mismatch is common in elderly, bed ridden and post operative patients..This means there are few alveoli (air sacs) who have blood supply but no air flow and vice versa.. Deep inhalation during spirometer exercise helps opening of most distal alveoli so they can participate in gasseous exchange between blood and air.. This will improve oxygenation...

[vishvak]

https://m.hindustantimes.com/patna/supe ... K_amp.html

“The groom’s father is a school teacher at Paliganj and has constructed a house there. He had invited his friends from the teachers’ fraternity, besides other people, for the wedding ceremony,” said Rampravesh Rai, a local businessman of the area...
..

Teacher ignored clear signs.

If this is super spreader then what about tablig jamat congregation.

[darshan]

There was a similar report in Bhilwara. Or actually from many places if one were to read local newspapers. There are lot of news about people going with gatherings.

[darshan]

https://share.america.gov/new-tool-esti ... -surfaces/

A new online tool can estimate how long the virus that causes COVID-19 will survive on surfaces.

The tool uses temperature and relative humidity to calculate the natural decay of SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that causes COVID-19. The U.S. Department of Homeland Security designed the tool to help officials and business owners, in consultation with health professionals, make decisions on reopening facilities.

https://www.dhs.gov/science-and-technol ... calculator

[vijayk]

https://indianexpress.com/article/coron ... i-6480235/

Coronavirus (Covid-19) vaccine status check: Oxford vaccine most advanced, says WHO; Sanofi accelerates trials
Coronavirus (Covid-19) Vaccine Latest Update: The World Health Organisation has identified the Covid-19 vaccine candidates developed by Oxford University-AstraZeneca and Moderna Inc as the front-runners

ven though there are more than 13 experimental vaccines in clinical trials among the 140 being developed to combat Covid-19, the World Health Organisation has identified the candidates developed by Oxford University-AstraZeneca and Moderna Inc as the front-runners.

“Certainly in terms of how advanced they are, the stage at which they are, they are I think probably the leading candidate,” Reuters quoted WHO chief scientist Soumya Swaminathan as saying.

[ShyamSP]

where are India's companies? Are they fighting with Pathanjali to stop any medication so the above can sell and license to Indians?

[vijayk]

where are India's companies? Are they fighting with Pathanjali to stop any medication so the above can sell and license to Indians?

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/c ... 2020-06-29
India's first coronavirus vaccine gets nod for human trials
Hyderabad based pharmaceutical firm Bharat Biotech has developed India's first vaccine candidate for coronavirus. The company got approvals for the vaccine after submitting results generated from preclinical studies, demonstrating safety and immune response against Covid-19.

yderabad based Bharat Biotech, has successfully developed COVAXIN, India’s first vaccine candidate for Covid-19, in collaboration with the Indian Council of Medical Research (ICMR) and National Institute of Virology (NIV).

The SARS-CoV-2 strain was isolated in NIV, Pune and transferred to Bharat Biotech.

The indigenous, inactivated vaccine was developed and manufactured in Bharat Biotech’s BSL-3 (Bio-Safety Level 3) High Containment facility located in Genome Valley, Hyderabad, India.

The Drug Controller General of India- Central Drugs Standard Control Organisation and Ministry of Health & Family Welfare granted permission to initiate Phase I & II Human clinical trials after the company submitted results generated from preclinical studies, demonstrating safety and immune response. Human clinical trials are scheduled to start across India in July 2020.

“COVAXIN is India’s first indigenous vaccine against Covid-19. The collaboration with ICMR and NIV was instrumental in the development of this vaccine. The proactive support and guidance from CDSCO has enabled approvals to this project. Our R&D and Manufacturing teams worked tirelessly to deploy our proprietary technologies towards this platform," said Dr Krishna Ella, Chairman and Managing Director of Bharat Biotech

Expedited through national regulatory protocols, the company accelerated its objective in completing the comprehensive pre-clinical studies. Results from these studies have been promising and show extensive safety and effective immune responses.

Joint Managing Director Suchitra Ella said that company’s ongoing research and expertise in forecasting epidemics enabled it to successfully manufacture a vaccine for the H1N1 pandemic.

Bharat Biotech in past has developed several vaccines for Polio, Rabies, Rotavirus, Japanese Encephalitis, Chikungunya and Zika.

[dnivas]

dishaji,

Anyone saying 100% cure is questionable. Doesn’t matter who it is. There is no such a thing.

Please do not be ignorant.

There are diseases with 100% cure. Across human genetic variations and co-morbidities.

And a single drug/herb or a combination of such treatment can cure for all humans for those diseases.

Please read up on the life and works of Dr. Yellapragada Subbarow.

Coming to think of it, we Indians are a bunch of arrogant fools once we know ingliss. If I come and say that instead of the lord god, every human must pray to Dr. Subbarow as THE savior, I am just telling the truth. But then the same ingliss speaking crowd will nail me to a cross demanding proper research to be published in reputable journals and not marketing properly. Later after nailing me to cross, they may market me well I guess! Poor Subbarow, he will have to wait his turn. Or maybe we should have nailed him to the cross? . For being a nice human and humble person.

Beautiful post. For many years I did not realize I would by default diss anything Indian. Around early 2000's Shiv's posts caused me to take a minute to understand why we as Indian have this default behavior almost like a reflex action to put down anything Indian [Good product or not]. At the same time we lap up anything western or Russian or Taiwanese or Japanese or German [Now we are willing to do the same for Chinese as well].

I thank Shiv for changing my thought process to appreciate our culture with its many flaws and I am sure many years from now someone else will appreciate your posts as well. Please keep the fight going. There are many silent supporters who appreciate your posts

[DavidD]

No, you have to see data proving its efficacy to believe it. All that mumble jumble about the concepts of allopathy and ayurvedic is not what makes one superior to the other, what matters is proven results. Run a RCT comparing allopathic and ayurvedic treatments for a specific disease, how well does each reach its end point? I fully accept that modern science comes far short of explaining let alone solving everything, so I'm certainly open to new concepts, but I need to see results. If ayurvedic treatment for a condition is superior, then let's use that until we can find something better. It's really that simple.

what is your view on traditional chinese medicine?

a good example that I can cite is how effective and expensive is the treatment for kidney stones in allopathy? how effective, efficient and inexpensive is it with ayurvedic and siddha medicines?

I think all traditional medicines should be studied and and have its merits picked out. They must all work to some extent, but we need to ascertain to what extent and why it is so with science and studies. Medicine has advanced as has many other practices. We've managed to use science to improve so many other things, why should we be stuck in 1000 years ago with medicine?

I apologize for the use of "mumble jumble", I didn't mean to demean a particular practice of medicine, I actually wanted to apply it to both practices because I meant to express my distain for using theory instead of facts to justify a practice of medicine. That's dangerous and not unique to traditional practices of medicine either. Allopathic medicine relied much on theory and experience not that many years ago either, but we've largely moved on to evidence-based medicine.

Theories have its place, specifically with hypothesis generation, but actual practice should be based on veritable, repeatable facts.

[Vivasvat]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/29/malls-i ... -says.html
NY malls can’t open without air conditioning systems that filter the coronavirus, Gov. Cuomo says

• New York malls will need high quality air systems that can filter out the coronavirus before they will be allowed to reopen, Gov. Andrew Cuomo said on Monday.
• High efficiency particle air filters, or HEPA filters, have been shown to help reduce the presence of Covid-19 in the air, according to a presentation from Cuomo.
• He said the state recommends all businesses and offices “explore the potential for their air conditioning air filtration system.”

[Ambar]

Unless US, Brazil or Mexico updates their daily death numbers later in the day, it looks like India is in the provisional pole position in daily deaths today. Karnataka, Telangana and AP are now showing worrying trends in new cases as they clear the test backlog, but in terms of case fatality rate MH and DL remain undisputed leaders.

[Vivasvat]

https://www.businessinsider.com/new-swi ... igs-2020-6

A new swine flu strain with 'pandemic potential' was just found circulating in Chinese pigs

[Zynda]

-Spirometer is better than simple balloon..

-Usual recommendation is set of 10 breaths , 5 times/ day..

-Ventilation perfusion mismatch is common in elderly, bed ridden and post operative patients..This means there are few alveoli (air sacs) who have blood supply but no air flow and vice versa.. Deep inhalation during spirometer exercise helps opening of most distal alveoli so they can participate in gasseous exchange between blood and air.. This will improve oxygenation...

Thanks for your reply Dr. Per your experience/knowledge, how is Fabiflu performing against Covid?

[DrRatnadip]

-Spirometer is better than simple balloon..

-Usual recommendation is set of 10 breaths , 5 times/ day..

-Ventilation perfusion mismatch is common in elderly, bed ridden and post operative patients..This means there are few alveoli (air sacs) who have blood supply but no air flow and vice versa.. Deep inhalation during spirometer exercise helps opening of most distal alveoli so they can participate in gasseous exchange between blood and air.. This will improve oxygenation...

Thanks for your reply Dr. Per your experience/knowledge, how is Fabiflu performing against Covid?

started using it since 3 days only.. So far no problem noted.. It will take time to reach conclusion.. All google educated pts are demanding Fabiflu though..

[pandyan]

In honour of those who trust science and data! science of customizing data to maximize profit

this was considered leading-edge scientific progress a mere few decades ago




the consequences of many a folly past are just beginning to dawn on us today, some have already revealed their patent holders' venality and greed that caused them to knowingly push dangerous products on to the unsuspecting public.

wonder what's lurking around the next bend in the road, another chinese virus like "scientific" discovery

[sudarshan]

In honour of those who trust science and data! science of customizing data to maximize profit

this was considered leading-edge scientific progress a mere few decades ago

...

the consequences of many a folly past are just beginning to dawn on us today, some have already revealed their patent holders' venality and greed that caused them to knowingly push dangerous products on to the unsuspecting public.

wonder what's lurking around the next bend in the road, another chinese virus like "scientific" discovery

Add thalidomide and radium tonic to the above. Radium tonic was supposed to "energize" you, but fell out of fashion with the horrifying tragedy of the "radium girls" (truly not a story for the faint of heart). Science is fine as pure science, decoupled from commercial interests - marketing should ideally be kept away until the science is worked out to the extent possible. But when marketing and science go hand-in-hand like moonstruck lovers from the get go, crazy things happen.

OTOH there are also negative campaigns like the demonization of fats (sat fats in particular) - I believe this was originally done to restrict imports of coconut oil from Indonesia into the USA. Now medical science is "waking up" to the fact that sat fats might be better for you than excess carbs, in fact the diabetes epidemic might be due to over-restriction of sat fats with substitution by carbs (incl. sugar).

These rush vaccines and fast-tracked drug approvals scare me. Europe has been open for three weeks now, there is no ramp-up of cases there. People are freaking about India, but from what I can see, India is firmly in the linear range with both cases and deaths, there is simply no exponential rise. US case counts seem to be rising, but the critical parameter (deaths) is still dropping. Need to wait a couple of weeks more for some clarity here.

Sweden: 89% of deaths were in people over 70, 95% in people over 60, average age of deaths=82.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/110 ... ge-groups/

Italy: 85% of deaths were in people over 70, 95% in people over 60, average age of deaths=80.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/110 ... -in-italy/

France: 92% of deaths were in people over 65.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/110 ... ge-france/

It seems around 40% of deaths in the USA were in nursing homes (which account for 0.6% of the population), and another 10 to 20% were nosocomial (hospital-induced). All over Europe, nursing home deaths predominate.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... homes.html

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-05- ... ities.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... u-suggests

The way to control this pandemic seems to be - protect the elderly and vulnerable (nursing homes, those with conditions, etc.), while allowing the general population to go about their activities (with social distancing and frequent hand-washing), not a general lockdown. If current trends hold, then a vaccine or cure may not even be necessary (hope for the best).

Again, don't know what will happen in September, but still, protecting the vulnerable and enforcing social distancing on the rest will probably do it.

[NRao]

New virus found in China, another pandemic feared | Research

[Kanson]

@ Pandyan /

Isha Foundation introducted new breathing exercise for frontline warriors of COVID19 & for rural population who cant afford costly treatment.

It is known as Simha Kriya.

https://isha.sadhguru.org/in/en/wisdom/ ... t-immunity


https://isha.sadhguru.org/in/en/simha-kriya/faq

If anyone cannot do this, they have COVID19 or other lung ailments.

Nice way to check.

[chola]

New virus found in China, another pandemic feared | Research

Lots more coming! Even if they got rid of their wet markets!
(Crossposting from Understanding chinis thread.)

[NRao]

Thanks chola. Which isle do I find appetite?

[ShyamSP]

All I have to say is: you have to experience Ayurveda first to believe in it

https://www.softpowermag.com/why-how-an ... ayasundar/

Why, How and Where Ayurveda Differs from Allopathy: Prof Rama Jayasundar

Professor Rama Jayasundar, the head of the department of NMR at the All-India Institute of Medical Sciences, New Delhi spoke on the difference between Ayurveda and Allopathy and why this matters, as a part of the lecture series organised by Vijnana Bharati.
...

There is a talk today by the same Prof Rama Jayasundar. Probably it is a good idea for some posters here to go through it and learn science before posting jibes on Ayurveda.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0-Df7CPB7E

[milindc]

'Never made coronavirus medicine': Patanjali CEO backtracks on 'Coronil', says never claimed it can cure COVID

Giving clarification to the notice issued by the Uttarakhand Drug Department, Patanjali Group CEO Acharya Balkrishna denied making any medicine named as 'Corona Kit'.

Merely hours after the launch of 'Coronil', Patanjali came under fire and Uttarakhand Ayush Ministry issued a notice to the group saying it was given the licence to manufacture immunity booster kits, not find a cure for coronavirus.

Coronil for COVID-19 treatment? We have never claimed so, says Patanjali CEO

Patanjali CEO Acharya Balkrishna today said that they never claimed that Coronil can cure or can be used to control coronavirus.

Jaipur's NIMS makes U-turn on 'Coronil' collab with Baba Ramdev, says no clinical trials conducted

Jaipur's National Institute of Medical Sciences which had collaborated on this has now distanced itself from the controversial ayurvedic drug and stated that no clinical trials of it were conducted at the hospital.

NIMS Chairman, Dr. B.S. Tomar said, "there was no clinical trial in our hospital of the drug. There was no serious case in the patients we admitted. Only 100 asymptomatic patients were given few Ayurvedic medicines under the sponsorship of Patanjali. But we did not prepare any medicine nor did we know its name."

Ramdev on the other hand, had claimed that a clinical case study of coronil was conducted on patients admitted at NIMS located in Chandwaji on the Delhi highway in Jaipur.

[pandyan]

There is a talk today by the same Prof Rama Jayasundar. Probably it is a good idea for some posters here to go through it and learn science before posting jibes on Ayurveda.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0-Df7CPB7E

Great info!

[mukkan]

Gilead prices COVID-19 drug remdesivir at $2,340 per patient

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN2401C8

[Primus]

Some questions.. Hopefully you can answer.

what is your definition of cure? What is the allopathy definition of cure? what is Ayurvedic definition of cure?

What is Indian government of money allocation for Allopathy research vs Ayurvedic research? Does Indian government allow Ayurvedic medicines to be prescribed in Hospitals? Does Indian government allow Ayurveda to be studied as full discipline in Medical college as non-alternative? Does Indian authorities/Boards such as ICMR take Ayurveda as Medical science certified to be treated on par with Allopathy?

I've been a practicing physician for over 40 yrs and have the usual half-dozen or so diplomas. Worked in academia, pvt practice, published papers, read the usual journals and arguments - in short, been there, done that. In all these years I've learnt that when we think we know more, we actually know less and what was true yesterday is not true today, what is true today maybe proved false tomorrow.

Gastroenterologists always knew there was a 'little brain' in our gut that often took control of what our 'big brain' was feeling, but who would ever have guessed how much the microbiome inside of us did and shaped our physiology, our pathology, our immunology and our psychology. People would have laughed at you if you told them this when I was in medical school.

As has been written here, our worst enemies are our own people - Indian doctors are the first to reject anything connected with indigenous medicine. $hit smells the same everywhere and yet too many desis think the white man passes roses every morning. Early on in my career very few authors on leading papers had any Pharma affiliations, today they all do. A successful drug may make $10-20 billion a year, even when it only provides 40% improvement over placebo. It continues to make money even when generics are available, thanks to clever marketing and continued promotion by vested academia.

Americans also spend billions on supplements and vitamins, in the blind hope that they will do what their costly prescription meds do not. The Samueli family donated $200 million to UC Irvine in 2017 to launch a school of 'alternative medicine', because Mrs. Samueli believed in homeopathy.

And yet we dismiss anything coming out of India so easily because it has not been rubber-stamped by a Western university. Our desperate desire for approval by the gora aadmi is perhaps hard-wired into our brains from centuries of domination and subjugation. It is only now that we as a people are waking up and coming into our own.

I don't know anything about Coronil or Baba Ramdev, what I do know is that we are throwing the baby out with the bath water.

[Vayutuvan]

@Primus ji, I was with you till you brought in Homeopathy. There is no comparison between homeopathy and Ayurveda, as far as I know. While I have no medical knowledge, I thought that homeopathy is widely believed to be pseudoscience and not evidence-based.

Please correct me if I am wrong. We can take it to the other thread on medicine.

[Primus]

@Primus ji, I was with you till you brought in Homeopathy. There is no comparison between homeopathy and Ayurveda, as far as I know. While I have no medical knowledge, I thought that homeopathy is widely believed to be pseudoscience and not evidence-based.

Please correct me if I am wrong. We can take it to the other thread on medicine.

VT Ji, I never mentioned homeopathy, except to say Mrs. Samueli believed in it, it was not an endorsement at all and I don't believe in it. Everything else, yes, but not that. Ayurveda is science, homeopathy is not, at least IMHO. I have my own opinion on it, but don't want to cause any waves here. Suffice it to say I would never use it or recommend it.

[srai]

Traditional remedies and other “alternative” treatments can succeed if they follow the following general guidelines:

1. clever marketing
2. high profile sponsorship
3. stay within legal framework
4. * claims (if not validated)
5. historical background and credentials
6. collation of relevant research and trials worldwide

Consumer can decide whether it’s worth it or not. Main thing is to stay within the legal frameworks of countries to avoid government interventions and lawsuits.

If Coronil hadn’t advertised as 100% COVID-19 cure, they would have been fine. When they made those unsubstantiated claims, they crossed the legal boundaries. They were licensed for immunity boosters and would have been fine if stayed within those confines. But they went beyond to the point everyone involved had to backtrack.

[Primus]

Like I said, I don't know about the Coronil scandal, but if anybody claims 100% cure for anything, that in itself should be illegal. The only medications that come close to that degree of success are the ones for Hepatitis C which all reach a 95% cure rate. Nothing else in medicine - allopathic or otherwise responds so dramatically - with the exception perhaps of syphilis which has always been sensitive to penicillin, although rare cases are being reported which are resistant even to this age old remedy.

The problem I have is of the opposite nature. There are so many 'magic' cures offered for chronic illnesses that at best provide a 40-50% benefit and yet the companies that make these products earn billions of dollars from them. The amount of money spent on ads, promotions via physicians - both in academia and prvt practice, the lobbying through politicians is unbelievable. Nobody seems to mind this as everybody except the poor patient is in on the scam. Just like promises of total cure are illegal, such practices too should be, but they are not.

[Primus]

Traditional remedies and other “alternative” treatments can succeed if they follow the following general guidelines:

1. clever marketing
2. high profile sponsorship
3. stay within legal framework
4. * claims (if not validated)
5. historical background and credentials
6. collation of relevant research and trials worldwide

Consumer can decide whether it’s worth it or not. Main thing is to stay within the legal frameworks of countries to avoid government interventions and lawsuits.

If Coronil hadn’t advertised as 100% COVID-19 cure, they would have been fine. When they made those unsubstantiated claims, they crossed the legal boundaries. They were licensed for immunity boosters and would have been fine if stayed within those confines. But they went beyond to the point everyone involved had to backtrack.

Like I said, I don't know about the Coronil scandal, but if anybody claims 100% cure for anything, that in itself should be illegal. The only medications that come close to that degree of success are the ones for Hepatitis C which all reach a 95% cure rate. Nothing else in medicine - allopathic or otherwise responds so dramatically - with the exception perhaps of syphilis which has always been sensitive to penicillin, although rare cases are being reported which are resistant even to this age old remedy.

The problem I have is of the opposite nature. There are so many 'magic' cures offered for chronic illnesses that at best provide a 40-50% benefit and yet the companies that make these products earn billions of dollars from them. The amount of money spent on ads, promotions via physicians - both in academia and prvt practice, the lobbying through politicians is unbelievable. Nobody seems to mind this as everybody except the poor patient is in on the scam. Just like promises of total cure are illegal, such practices too should be, but they are not.

In the US, homeopathic and other such 'alternative' medicines are classified as 'supplements' and thus cleverly escape the legal requirements of proof. Millions of Americans use these products in a self-prescribed fashion, mostly responding to word of mouth recommendations and clever marketing with disclaimers in place to comply with regulations - much like psychics have a 'for entertainment only' statement in their TV ads. These supplements make up an industry that is worth billions of dollars. The Samueli family that I mentioned earlier is a promoter of these products and hence the donation to UC Irvine in an attempt to make them more respectable and mainstream. Mohammed Changez Oz sells the same thing in an even more clever manner on television - his father-in-law is said to be a holistic medicine practitioner. He is no more than a snake-oil salesman now, sad to see a cardiac surgeon stooping so low to become a celebrity.

For some reason, it seems to me that it is alright for the West to promote nonsense if it is packaged right, but if an Indian does it, hell breaks loose. That is the part that I have a problem with.

[mukkan]

[ShyamSP]

Didn't Indian govt medical agencies/ICMR push HCQ the second day even without trails? Now these Allopathic agents and "western-brain-washed" medical authorities got problem with Ayurvedic medicines. May be Patanjali should push into the market as relief medicine and let people decide to take it. 500 rs aswagandha,tusli,etc do good things to body regardless instead of allopathic chemicals aka medicines with caveats and so many side effects including death.

I'm glad they are finally pushing the medicine to market by working around "Colonial" health ministry/board rules.

Patanjali says didn’t claim 'cure’ for Covid; Ayush Ministry says Coronil is immunity booster & can't be sold as cure
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 728071.cms

[ShyamSP]

The problem I have is of the opposite nature. There are so many 'magic' cures offered for chronic illnesses that at best provide a 40-50% benefit and yet the companies that make these products earn billions of dollars from them. The amount of money spent on ads, promotions via physicians - both in academia and prvt practice, the lobbying through politicians is unbelievable. Nobody seems to mind this as everybody except the poor patient is in on the scam. Just like promises of total cure are illegal, such practices too should be, but they are not.
...
For some reason, it seems to me that it is alright for the West to promote nonsense if it is packaged right, but if an Indian does it, hell breaks loose. That is the part that I have a problem with.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 728071.cms
The Ministry also said in a letter addressed to Patanjali that the packaging and labelling displayed on the medicines cannot claim cure of Covid-19. “The advertising and publicity of the drugs should be ensured in accordance with the relevant provisions of the Drugs & Magic Remedies (Objectionable Ads) Act,” the letter states.

So Health Ministry doesn't see magic remedies in Allopathy when they have <50% "cure" benefit? They should change their name from "Ayush" Ministry to "Allopathy" Ministry and invite UK back to rule India.