Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 02 Jul 2020 02:41

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/12782 ... 31648?s=20 ---> Tejas Mk-2, TEDBF & AMCA D&D in progress in India by ADA. Not sure what strategic benefit an imported 4th gen aircraft would provide in the future. Happy to learn about any specific merits please.

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/12782 ... 23682?s=20 ---> Excellent is the biggest enemy of good. The Indian fighter aircraft is Good. Many new variants on the anvil. Time will tell, which ones will prevail. Perhaps we'll be Excellent someday. Full regard for voices of criticism against Indian products and agencies.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 02 Jul 2020 02:46

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/12783 ... 94528?s=20 ---> Tejas is a huge strategic achievement. Every foreign competitor is at his wits end, trying to bring down the Tejas success story. Not going to happen. Tejas has already endured enough onslaught from outside and within.

idan · Post by **idan** » 02 Jul 2020 03:16

When HAL's product development is inextricably linked to MoD, funding delays are bound to happen. HAL should raise $5 billion from open market to fund product/MVP development, only then we will see massive ramp up otherwise this rona dhona will continue ad-infinitum

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 02 Jul 2020 04:10

'Flying Dagger' Tejas Mk1 with Derby, R-73E and 2 drop tanks. The first known pic of an operational Tejas with the Derby!

srai · Post by **srai** » 02 Jul 2020 04:32

^^^
Nice!

So that would mean IOC aircraft are already getting FOC upgrades incorporated.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 02 Jul 2020 05:22

Hopefully. Need to see an Elta ELL-8222 SPJ as well and then the fleet should be at a point where No.45 Squadron can move to a forward air base or at least detachments can be sent out.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 02 Jul 2020 05:42

From HVT's Twitter feed. Looking good!

The next decade will see this becoming a more common sight as more Tejas Mk1 and Mk1A fighters join the IAF.

Older prototypes, not Series Production Tejas fighters. Those aren't Cobham radomes.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 02 Jul 2020 05:43

Kartik wrote:'Flying Dagger' Tejas Mk1 with Derby, R-73E and 2 drop tanks. The first known pic of an operational Tejas with the Derby!

At least 200 of these are needed as of yesterday! Much cheaper than buying the Russian and French lawn darts. The PLAAF and TSPAF combined can't take on the IAF!

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 02 Jul 2020 05:44

Russian and French lawn darts? TBF, the attrition rate of both the Su-30MKI, MiG-29 as well as the French Mirage-2000 is very respectable.

srai · Post by **srai** » 02 Jul 2020 07:14

Kartik wrote:Hopefully. Need to see an Elta ELL-8222 SPJ as well and then the fleet should be at a point where No.45 Squadron can move to a forward air base or at least detachments can be sent out.

I don’t think SPJ would dictate forward deployments. Historically, most IAF fighter types didn’t have SPJs. Even those that have SPJ option don’t always carry it. WC Abhi’s MiG-21 Bison didn’t carry one during post-Balakot air action.

For a point defense fighter located very close to the border and intercepting enemy fighters at short notice and distance (within 20 km), SPJ may not always be useful for combat. WC Abhi’s MiG-21 was engaged at less than 10km, while he shot down F-16 at around 18km. All within visual combat ranges.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 02 Jul 2020 08:10

srai wrote: For a point defense fighter located very close to the border and intercepting enemy fighters at short notice and distance (within 20 km), SPJ may not always be useful for combat. WC Abhi’s MiG-21 was engaged at less than 10km, while he shot down F-16 at around 18km. All within visual combat ranges.

That was a very specific scenario though. The combat may play out very differently the next time. They need to get it integrated asap. Not sure what the delay is exactly. Maybe someone can ask that to HVT sir on Twitter.

Rs_singh · Post by **Rs_singh** » 02 Jul 2020 10:14

nachiket wrote:
srai wrote: For a point defense fighter located very close to the border and intercepting enemy fighters at short notice and distance (within 20 km), SPJ may not always be useful for combat. WC Abhi’s MiG-21 was engaged at less than 10km, while he shot down F-16 at around 18km. All within visual combat ranges.
That was a very specific scenario though. The combat may play out very differently the next time. They need to get it integrated asap. Not sure what the delay is exactly. Maybe someone can ask that to HVT sir on Twitter.

SPJs and LWRs are absolutely needed on all platforms moving forward. As for our bison, all I’ll say is, if there is one aircraft which continuously surprised our mock “adversary” in umpteen simulated combats with foreign Afs its the bison. That being said, I also strongly feel it’s time for the bison to hang up its boots and for Tejas to take over. Do watch the fighter pilot podcast with bundal Tyagi on the mig 21 here:

https://youtu.be/3h39k7BRe0w

Mods, feel free to delete if OT or redundant.

Rs_singh · Post by **Rs_singh** » 02 Jul 2020 10:45

Kartik wrote:'Flying Dagger' Tejas Mk1 with Derby, R-73E and 2 drop tanks. The first known pic of an operational Tejas with the Derby!

Why not Astra?

basant · Post by **basant** » 02 Jul 2020 10:53

Kartik wrote:'Flying Dagger' Tejas Mk1 with Derby, R-73E and 2 drop tanks. The first known pic of an operational Tejas with the Derby!

It could be first FOC too, right? I mean tail# is not visible.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 02 Jul 2020 11:00

^ Because it is Flying Daggers, not Bullets.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 02 Jul 2020 23:07

basant wrote:
Kartik wrote:'Flying Dagger' Tejas Mk1 with Derby, R-73E and 2 drop tanks. The first known pic of an operational Tejas with the Derby!
It could be first FOC too, right? I mean tail# is not visible.

Tail number isn't visible, but where the Main Landing Gear doors are, one can see the number '14'. That's SP-14, with the 'Flying Daggers'.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 03 Jul 2020 01:36

abhik wrote:@fanne where are you getting 50% number from? IIRC the local content is much higher, around 70% or so.

by part yes, by cost LCA is still 50% foreign. And you can see the dilemma, as we develop more, what is left will slowly become slightly costlier. Another way to look it is that unlike China, who do not have access to the best in world, we have some access (mainly to European/Israeli if not US system) and we are buying the best of subsystem that would make LCA all the more lethal
-Engine (no choice, but F404/F414 is best in class)
- Radar (2052, better than in development Uttam, key word in development, cheap, less effective than costlier French radar)
-EW/Helmet etc.
- Actuators (do we make them? or imported from, Moog?)

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 03 Jul 2020 01:50

Actuators..Yes by Godrej.

The LCA Tejas isn't just about protecting our nation. It's about doing it ourselves.⁣
⁣
At Godrej Aerospace, we gave the Tejas, the multirole light fighter, another boost in the wings by manufacturing the first Indian aircraft actuators. These actuators, designed by ADA/DRDO, were successfully tested across all altitudes and speeds of operation, on the 28th of May, 2020. ⁣
⁣
Congratulations, India.⁣
⁣
#GodrejAndBoyce⁣
#LCATejas #Tejas

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... s=scwsplos

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 03 Jul 2020 01:54

ashishvikas wrote:The LCA Tejas isn't just about protecting our nation. It's about doing it ourselves.⁣

+108 to you!!!

That is what causes the greatest takleef and heartburn to the OEMs and to some on the forum.

If we can do it ourselves, the gravy train will stop.

Y I Patel · Post by **Y I Patel** » 03 Jul 2020 02:05

Some of you are extremely good at picking up innocuous looking details, and you probably take it for granted that some things are obvious. In this example, an operational detail is involved... At a sensitive time like this, it might be better to rejoice quietly.

Y I Patel · Post by **Y I Patel** » 03 Jul 2020 02:11

Might I suggest that some really high quality posts should be deleted because they are too informative?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 Jul 2020 02:41

No. Because let them celebrate and cheer the lurkers.
No need to admonish good news.

Ramana

Avtar Singh · Post by **Avtar Singh** » 03 Jul 2020 18:29

Back in the day of sanctions, if my memory serves me.. reported on this forum
Did not the belgium parliament? debate/deny? the sale of some actuators? hydraulic?
to India... LCA

Well where is belgium now? Full of 5+ presidents of the EU and islamics = worthless

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 03 Jul 2020 19:12

Kartik wrote:
basant wrote: It could be first FOC too, right? I mean tail# is not visible.
Tail number isn't visible, but where the Main Landing Gear doors are, one can see the number '14'. That's SP-14, with the 'Flying Daggers'.

So IOC aircraft are BVR capable but restricted to Derby, while FOC aircraft probably can carry Astra and Derby ER.

KL Dubey · Post by **KL Dubey** » 03 Jul 2020 21:33

Rakesh wrote:
ashishvikas wrote:The LCA Tejas isn't just about protecting our nation. It's about doing it ourselves.⁣
+108 to you!!!

That is what causes the greatest takleef and heartburn to the OEMs and to some on the forum.

If we can do it ourselves, the gravy train will stop.

The engine seems the last frontier.....

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 03 Jul 2020 21:35

KL Dubey wrote:The engine seems the last frontier.....

We will get there.

basant · Post by **basant** » 03 Jul 2020 22:02

Aditya_V wrote:So IOC aircraft are BVR capable but restricted to Derby, while FOC aircraft probably can carry Astra and Derby ER.

Derby is available for LCA. Integration trails have not started yet for Derby ER and Astra for any version of Tejas.

srai · Post by **srai** » 04 Jul 2020 10:27

^^^
I-Derby ER supposed to be same externally to the current Derby. Uses the same interfaces as well. Interchangeable.

basant · Post by **basant** » 04 Jul 2020 11:28

^^^
According to internet, the trails are expected in 2021. This is 2020, anything can happen

. Won't be too surprised if it is also tested and ready for deployment.

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 05 Jul 2020 16:33

Kartik wrote:
basant wrote: It could be first FOC too, right? I mean tail# is not visible.
Tail number isn't visible, but where the Main Landing Gear doors are, one can see the number '14'. That's SP-14, with the 'Flying Daggers'.

Should we not looking for the gun to diff IOC and FOC birds ?

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 05 Jul 2020 17:17

Another difference I can think of is that the FOC birds seem to have a White covering for the Radome compared to dark grey for the IOC aircraft.

basant · Post by **basant** » 05 Jul 2020 18:23

Aditya_V wrote:Another difference I can think of is that the FOC birds seem to have a White covering for the Radome compared to dark grey for the IOC aircraft.

Not really, I think (unless they are happily changing tail numbers andcolous!). See this:

I was not sure if the gun, like IFR probe, was plug-n-play. Khalsa has hawkeye to see 14! I had trouble spotting it on my mobile.

srai · Post by **srai** » 05 Jul 2020 19:18

^^^

These are evidence that IOC are getting FOC upgrades (possibly as when available). We are seeing BVR Derby and Cobham radome on IOC squadron LCAs.

basant · Post by **basant** » 05 Jul 2020 19:21

^^^
It appears that they are prioritizing upgrades over delivery of FOCs. If it so then it shows lack of manpower.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 05 Jul 2020 19:56

basant wrote:^^^
It appears that they are prioritizing upgrades over delivery of FOCs. If it so then it shows lack of manpower.

Or maybe they want full foc aircraft available if the crackers go off.
The assembly line is not read for FOC upgrades which are mostly software related yes?

srai · Post by **srai** » 06 Jul 2020 05:20

^^^
It is possible that most of the changes could be done at the airbase itself. It may be as easy as taking out an LRU; installing a new software update, or if hardware then replace the LRU; and putting it back in. Reboot the system; run diagnostics; and it’s ready to go. After all, LRUs are supposed to provide this sort of plug-and-play advantage.

Gun and IFR may require more internal structural modifications. These will need to be done at HAL at some point.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 06 Jul 2020 05:24

At the end of the day it is our bird, you dont need to make even an ISD call for this, just simple local JIO call to clarify,upgrade etc

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 06 Jul 2020 23:52

srai wrote:^^^

These are evidence that IOC are getting FOC upgrades (possibly as when available). We are seeing BVR Derby and Cobham radome on IOC squadron LCAs.

Cobham radomes have been in use since the last couple of LSPs itself. All IOC jets always had it.

And they’re light grey, not white as some other poster remarked they were.

M_Joshi · Post by **M_Joshi** » 12 Jul 2020 13:52

https://mobile.twitter.com/proshillong/ ... 9588112385

https://mobile.twitter.com/Maverick_bha ... 2813731840

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 12 Jul 2020 14:02

^^^^
Nice pictures. What’s the munition under the outer pylons?