VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016

[Rakesh]

IIRC AASM Hammer has only 250 and 500 lb versions in service, I'm yet to see any pics of 1000/2000 lb being carried by Rafale (plenty of mock ups on trade shows though).

Is that a 1000 lb Hammer on the Rafale picture above? Or is it 500 lb?

It looks like one long ordnance, but if you zoom in closer...there are actually two.

[Rakesh]

This ad hoc buys irk me. Hammer is one of the most expensive A2G munitions there exists on this planet. And by a BIG BIG margin.

Given the serious security situation, using the Rafale to its full capabilities as soon as possible is a good decision / good deterrent.

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/128 ... 98368?s=20 ---> Repeat after us. There isn't a single 'emergency' procurement that doesn't lay bare the decrepit, creaking, ad-hoc nature of forward planning in Indian defence.

https://twitter.com/hukum2082/status/12 ... 14721?s=20 ---> We work in only two modes: Siesta or Emergency.

[Rakesh]

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/12862 ... 25728?s=19 ---> No! Am not particularly enthusiastic about imported fighters.

But an aircraft like IAF's Rafale can knock down the J-20, a hundred times over. The Chinese poster boy is good for posters. Better if they don't actually drop their experimental baby into real combat.

Rafale > J-20.

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/12864 ... 86177?s=20 ---> Scared? Yes! They've flogged workers to manufacture so much half-baked stuff that, 5% of it, might actually work. Besides, I'm sure the pilots know karate. That'll be handy when their missiles don't fire.

[Barath]

Every add-on purchase is pointing towards additional Rafales in the long term. I doubt the IAF would spend its meagre CAPEX on this purchase otherwise. And you are correct. The Hammer is one expensive munition. From wiki chacha....

With 600Cr budget for emergency budget, they will not be able to buy more than a meagre 200-300 bombs (each Rafale can carry 6).

https://www.theweek.in/news/india/2020/ ... al%20years.

French newspaper La Tribune reported in 2017 that Safran intended to reduce the cost of a single AAASM from 120,000 Euros to around 80,000 Euros a piece. In comparison, the US-built GBU-12 230kg bomb costs around 50,000 Euros a piece.

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... ch&pto=aue

So the french government gave Safran a contract to create a cheaper AASM Evolution with cheaper components to drop the price to Euros 80,000
French inflation since 2017 might add a few % to that

And the kits are supposed to be useable on both Mirage and Rafale, and are modular, so I assume that the same dumb bombs in Indian inventory for he mirage may be re-used, with a modular warhead and kit. Spice doesn't make the 250 kg kit, (rafael can carries 6) so that's the only one to check out

There's also the posibility of Make In India / offset usage as OIS-AT had a JV in 2016 for making the hammer kit in India

https://www.safran-group.com/fr/media/2 ... uniquement

[Haridas]

I wonder what is the target which requires a super expensive gold platted air dropped A2G at 100-200KM? Given the low numbers been bought, hope those targets are worth hitting.

The french have been hitting Libyan tanks at 55KM with this uber weapon.

Why is it better than a 200KM desi BM, which is probably going to be cheaper than this TFTA weapon?

I wondered if IAF had bothered asking DRDO to built a rocket powered missile with Brahmos seeker and put in on Su30?

But we work in this mode only. In my village we say:
Duaaray khadi baaraat, budhiya ko laagi haggaas. (Most important mission of life (baaraat arrives for daughter's marriage) and old women must go to latrine first)

Enemy at doorstep and IAF has urge to ask DRDO to fulfill it's wet dreams pronto, order & payment 10 years later.
Of course depending on bamboo applied, DRDO will prefer to make it a lifetime job security opportunity.

[brar_w]

With 600Cr budget for emergency budget, they will not be able to buy more than a meagre 200-300 bombs (each Rafale can carry 6).

https://www.theweek.in/news/india/2020/ ... al%20years.

French newspaper La Tribune reported in 2017 that Safran intended to reduce the cost of a single AAASM from 120,000 Euros to around 80,000 Euros a piece. In comparison, the US-built GBU-12 230kg bomb costs around 50,000 Euros a piece.

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... ch&pto=aue

So the french government gave Safran a contract to create a cheaper AASM Evolution with cheaper components to drop the price to Euros 80,000
French inflation since 2017 might add a few % to that

And the kits are supposed to be useable on both Mirage and Rafale, and are modular, so I assume that the same dumb bombs in Indian inventory for he mirage may be re-used, with a modular warhead and kit. Spice doesn't make the 250 kg kit, (rafael can carries 6) so that's the only one to check out

There's also the posibility of Make In India / offset usage as OIS-AT had a JV in 2016 for making the hammer kit in India

https://www.safran-group.com/fr/media/2 ... uniquement

A standard JDAM kit costs around $25,000 in 2020 inflation adjusted dollars. Over the nearly half a million kits that have been delivered, the average unit cost is probably closer to $20K.

The GBU-49, based on the latest F-35 contract award by the USAF, comes in at $50,000 per unit (42,000 Euros). But that munition includes both a laser and GPS and has the ability to hit moving targets so the nearly 2x increase in price from the JDAM kit is justified. So the AAASM can be as much as 4x the cost of a JDAM, or 2X the cost of the GBU-49 assuming that the company managed to get the unit cost down to 80,000 Euros (and keep it there).

Acquisition strategies can accommodate both so there is on one right answer. You can create an affordable guided glide munition an use the savings to buy it in larger numbers and / or to buy other types of capability (like stand off glide and powered munitions, or missiles) or you could design and buy the most capable bomb the technology permits you to do. There is no right or wrong answer and different users approach this differently. Ultimately, what inventory you want to build up and how many targets you have based on your O plans, is what impacts the unit cost targets. French went all in with the AAASM across a wide range of sizes. The US, with a larger, more diverse (bombers etc) fleet segmented their PGM's across a myriad of price points. From a €20K standard JDAM kit to a €150K multi-mode Stormbreaker with a few munition types in between those price points - A pyramid approach with the lowest cost glide PGM's at the bottom, and higher capability networked PGM's (Stormbreaker, JSOW-C etc) at the very top..

[manjgu]

I wonder what is the target which requires a super expensive gold platted air dropped A2G at 100-200KM? Given the low numbers been bought, hope those targets are worth hitting.

The french have been hitting Libyan tanks at 55KM with this uber weapon.

Why is it better than a 200KM desi BM, which is probably going to be cheaper than this TFTA weapon?

I wondered if IAF had bothered asking DRDO to built a rocket powered missile with Brahmos seeker and put in on Su30?

But we work in this mode only. In my village we say:
Duaaray khadi baaraat, budhiya ko laagi haggaas. (Most important mission of life (baaraat arrives for daughter's marriage) and old women must go to latrine first)

Enemy at doorstep and IAF has urge to ask DRDO to fulfill it's wet dreams pronto, order & payment 10 years later.
Of course depending on bamboo applied, DRDO will prefer to make it a lifetime job security opportunity.

theres another one... jab aag lagi hai to kooan ( well) khod ( dig) rahe hain.. ( when the fire is raging then thinking of digging a well )... the proverb mentioned above actually means ..the baarat is at the door and the old woman feels shitty ) ..theres another one..jab tatti lagi to lota dhoond rahe hain( when u r feeling shitty u start searching for the lota).

[tsarkar]

This ad hoc buys irk me. Hammer is one of the most expensive A2G munitions there exists on this planet. And by a BIG BIG margin.

Its the only GPS+INS bomb that can be carried by the Rafale. US JDAM isnt integrated on the Rafale. Pakistanis have US JDAM since 2005.

GPS+INS is required when clouds/fog/smoke obscure targets, including aerosol specifically designed to disperse laser beams.

India's precision guided munitions are Paveway, Griffon and SPICE that use laser or EO guidance. An accurate GPS+INS weapon was required.

There is a similar weapon under development by DRDO.

https://theprint.in/defence/what-is-drd ... ty/242066/

https://www.drdo.gov.in/glide-bomb

The biggest USP is the Imaging Infra Red seeker that is there only on US SDB-2 that is a much smaller 100 kg class weapon.

No other air to surface tactical weapon in the world today has an IIR seeker.

Yes, it is expensive. For additional laser guidance, remains to be seen if Hammer will be integrated with Litening or will need the Talios Pod or the IAF decides to use only the GPS+INS combo.

We did buy uber expensive Matra BGL bomb kits and Thales ATLIS-2 pods for Mirage 2000. The bombs were sparingly or never used and shown in displays/exhibitions only.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombe_Guid%C3%A9e_Laser

ATLIS-2 & BGL combination


Another view of the combination. An additional weapon in the photo is the Matra Beluga submunition dispenser.




https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLG_66_Belouga

So the IAF does buy a lot of exotic weapons for the rainy day

Curiously the Pakistanis too in the 1980's choose Thales ATLIS-2 Pod over US equipment, though not sure what LGB they used with it. They are the only users of a French Pod on a US fighter before Sniper Pod.

[Barath]

So the AAASM can be as much as 4x the cost of a JDAM, or 2X the cost of the GBU-49 assuming that the company managed to get the unit cost down to 80,000 Euros (and keep it there).

Acquisition strategies can accommodate both so there is on one right answer.

You're right,but the correct comparision really should be the cost of purchase of the new hammer vs cost of purchase of spice kit. Because that's more pertinent to the Indian acquisition strategy . (and historical blended price of JDAM won't any case factor in for India)

Unfortunately, I was still looking at a spice kit cost that I coud be comfortable with and for any info on whether spice had been certified on the rafael (the hammer has been tested on both mirage and rafael)

https://www.businesstoday.in/current/ec ... 54255.html
(INR 300 crore for as much as 100 spice bombs - wanted a second datum point or better clarity)

And of course India's acquisition strategy often has other elements unclear

Livefist article on why the IAF has chosen hammer,in addition to the earlier spice order adds a couple of points
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2020/07 ... afale.html

1. Hammer is already certified on Rafale and mirage. Spice is yet to be certified on the rafael, and thus those one time costs get added
2. Time factor. Time to certify spice on rafael vs hammer
3. At time of Rafale purchase, spice won on cost .
4. IAF pilots in France on training likely got a better look at hammer or had informal discussions with the french and may have provided input

Thus hammer got purchased, even though in the long run, spice might still wind up cheaper. (hammer's a bit more capable with that rocket)
I assume India'll still go through with spice integration and use spice and hammer interchangeably on the rafael and mirage in the longer run, but I could be wrong.

Its the only GPS+INS bomb that can be carried by the Rafale

See above. The more appropriate comparison ought to be to SPICE, which after, all was the plan at the time of Rafale purchase

[nachiket]

India's precision guided munitions are Paveway, Griffon and SPICE that use laser or EO guidance. An accurate GPS+INS weapon was required.

Rafael advertises day/night and adverse weather operation for the Spice in its brochures. My guess is it falls back on GPS/INS guidance if target acquisition using EO fails due to weather. They stress on the EO part because it is advertised as a GPS-independent munition which can be used in areas where GPS is denied.

The range advertised for the SPICE-1000 is 125km. It's EO sensor is not going to see, identify and acquire the target from that distance. So a INS guidance with mid-course updates will be essential. EO sensor will be used once target is within range and the scene-matching algorithm can then identify the target precisely giving better accuracy than what civilian grade GPS can provide. That's my understanding anyway.

The reason for buying the AASM is that the SPICE is not yet integrated on the Rafales and will take time, so the Rafales would be limited to LGB's and SCALP till then.

[brar_w]

India's precision guided munitions are Paveway, Griffon and SPICE that use laser or EO guidance. An accurate GPS+INS weapon was required.

Rafael advertises day/night and adverse weather operation for the Spice in its brochures. My guess is it falls back on GPS/INS guidance if target acquisition using EO fails due to weather. They stress on the EO part because it is advertised as a GPS-independent munition which can be used in areas where GPS is denied.

The range advertised for the SPICE-1000 is 125km. It's EO sensor is not going to see, identify and acquire the target from that distance. So a INS guidance with mid-course updates will be essential. EO sensor will be used once target is within range and the scene-matching algorithm can then identify the target precisely giving better accuracy than what civilian grade GPS can provide. That's my understanding anyway.

Yeah GPS plus IIR is what it has IIRC. A good solution if you want all weather and GPS suplment in case M-code or higher jam-resistant GPS isn't an option. The SDB-II added a MMW seeker to this combination as well for additional guidance at range when GPS is degraded or denied.

The AAASM variant includes a GPS/INS variant, a GPS/INS plus IIR variant, and and a GPS/SAL variant. No variant currently has all three. I'm not sure all variants are available at all sizes though that is something that can likely be done pretty easily. The JDAM comes in three varieties (for the most part). Standard GPS/INS, GPS/INS+SAL, and GPS/INS+HOJ RF seeker (US Only). It also has a two-way data-link enabled variant but again US only.

(and historical blended price of JDAM won't any case factor in for India)

The 21,000 Euro cost of the JDAM kit is current year cost. It does not blend any historic cost. If you do that it will probably get lower still. The same is true for the GBU-49 and its 40,000 Euro cost.

[abhik]

...
There's also the posibility of Make In India / offset usage as OIS-AT had a JV in 2016 for making the hammer kit in India

https://www.safran-group.com/fr/media/2 ... uniquement

If this "OIS" is same as "Offset India Solutions" (excellent creativity in naming the company), it was basically a front for arms dalal Sanjay Bhandari. Folks bitching about PSUs non stop don't seen seems to realise there are a fair number of shady private companies too.

https://www.outlookindia.com/newsscroll ... al/1559874

[tsarkar]

https://www.businesstoday.in/top-story/ ... 22472.html

This article gives relative cost of bombs. Not sure if accurate but GBU 12 costs 56 lakhs. Isnt very far from 69.5 lakhs of Hammer that adds IIR and GPS/INS

The IAF uses these weapons frugally

http://bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/history/k ... #gsc.tab=0

Only 9 LGB’s were dropped during the whole war, 8 by the Mirage fleet and one by a Jaguar.

[tsarkar]

India's precision guided munitions are Paveway, Griffon and SPICE that use laser or EO guidance. An accurate GPS+INS weapon was required.

Rafael advertises day/night and adverse weather operation for the Spice in its brochures. My guess is it falls back on GPS/INS guidance if target acquisition using EO fails due to weather. They stress on the EO part because it is advertised as a GPS-independent munition which can be used in areas where GPS is denied.

The range advertised for the SPICE-1000 is 125km. It's EO sensor is not going to see, identify and acquire the target from that distance. So a INS guidance with mid-course updates will be essential. EO sensor will be used once target is within range and the scene-matching algorithm can then identify the target precisely giving better accuracy than what civilian grade GPS can provide. That's my understanding anyway.

The reason for buying the AASM is that the SPICE is not yet integrated on the Rafales and will take time, so the Rafales would be limited to LGB's and SCALP till then.

The way I see it, Hammer brings benefits of Raytheon SDB2 tri mode seeker on a much larger weapon, so it is value for money.

The Hammer seekers are interchangeable unlike the Raytheon single seeker but the flexibility remains.

[nachiket]

The IAF uses these weapons frugally

http://bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/history/k ... #gsc.tab=0

Only 9 LGB’s were dropped during the whole war, 8 by the Mirage fleet and one by a Jaguar.

The frugality is a result of necessity not virtue. The cost and our perennial budget issues result in limited holdings of PGM's. If we had had a large stockpile of LGB kits during Kargil, a lot more targets would have been hit and IA casualties in the subsequent assaults would have reduced. And we are facing a much better equipped and altogether more dangerous enemy now. Still in this case, there is no way out. It is impossible for the cheaper SPICE to be integrated within time. If only it hadn't taken 15+ years from the start of MMRCA procurement for us to order any aircraft at all, we wouldn't be scrambling right about now. But that can be said about so many other things too.

[brar_w]

The way I see it, Hammer brings benefits of Raytheon SDB2 tri mode seeker on a much larger weapon, so it is value for money.

The SDB-II (Stormbreaker) can guide to an area using its active MMW RF seeker when GPS is degraded. It has 4 ways to navigate and target in total (GPS+MMW RF+IIR+SAL). Based on my understanding of AAASM, the variant has a combination of either GPS/SAL or GPS/IIR. Not all of them at the same time, and neither variant has an active RF layer for additional guidance. I'm also not sure whether the networked AAASM is yet operational but I haven't looked into it recently. Guidance aside, the advantage of the AAASM over something like a JDAM or a GBU-49 is going to be the power module which would allow for a larger low altitude release envelope compared to those two. It is essentially that for which one would pay 2-4 times more if one had a choice IMHO.

This article gives relative cost of bombs. Not sure if accurate but GBU 12 costs 56 lakhs. Isnt very far from 69.5 lakhs of Hammer that adds IIR and GPS/INS

The GBU-49 currently has a unit cost equivalent to 40,000 Euros so about half the cost of the AAASM assuming the French currently pay 80,000 Euros for it (which variant?).

[abhik]

IIRC AASM Hammer has only 250 and 500 lb versions in service, I'm yet to see any pics of 1000/2000 lb being carried by Rafale (plenty of mock ups on trade shows though).

Is that a 1000 lb Hammer on the Rafale picture above? Or is it 500 lb?

It looks like one long ordnance, but if you zoom in closer...there are actually two.

Are you referring to the image in LiveFist? I think those are 500 lb versions on tripple racks that saw wide use in Libya and elsewhere.

[tsarkar]

@brar_w
True, the Raytheon trimode seeker is presently the best seeker combining all available technologies. Is it available for export to non NATO countries like India?

[brar_w]

@brar_w
True, the Raytheon trimode seeker is presently the best seeker combining all available technologies.

And yet no one is really going crazy at adopting the same into say a JDAM. Problem is cost. Even with uncooled seekers and extremely low cost MMW RF mfg. technology you can't build it cheap enough to meet JDAM like costs ($20k-$25K depending upon batch size). And because the inventory of a "JDAM" needs to be large you have to find alternative ways to get similar survivable guidance without breaking the bank. For scale, you have to invest in GPS alternates because layering one mode atop of another gets expensive really fast when you are looking to build and buy at scale. At a particular price point it is also more cost-effective to just begin SEAD'ing the source of guidance degradation by allocating massive resources towards that. The JDAM and SDB HOJ variants are designed with specifically that in mind vis-a-vis GPS jammers and spoofing devices.

Is it available for export to non NATO countries like India?

The SDB II is just getting out of testing and a couple of components need to be upgraded before FOC is declared. IOC should happen over the next few weeks but only on one platform (F-15E). Yes it will be exported outside of NATO and it is a UAI certified weapon so, in theory, certification would be a lot easier since it uses published open standards and interface compliance. But that's probably a couple of years away and only when it enters full-rate production. LRIP lots will be used for additional testing (to reach FOC) and for stocking up initial units.

[Barath]

If this "OIS" is same as "Offset India Solutions" (excellent creativity in naming the company), it was basically a front for arms dalal Sanjay Bhandari. Folks bitching about PSUs non stop don't seen seems to realise there are a fair number of shady private companies too.

https://www.outlookindia.com/newsscroll ... al/1559874

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india/in ... Qlr8I.html

It is, indeed. Good catch & good point.

I think the larger idea is that MBDA/Safran was willing to make in India (giving them benefit of doubt). Though I'm not sure that an emergency buy with time as one of the rationale really means it may make sense immediately or happen now. However, Safran has lots of offsets to discharge and this won't be the last buy, so.. I think there's chance at some point

[abhik]

I wonder what is the target which requires a super expensive gold platted air dropped A2G at 100-200KM? Given the low numbers been bought, hope those targets are worth hitting.

The french have been hitting Libyan tanks at 55KM with this uber weapon.

Why is it better than a 200KM desi BM, which is probably going to be cheaper than this TFTA weapon?

I wondered if IAF had bothered asking DRDO to built a rocket powered missile with Brahmos seeker and put in on Su30[?

After a few weeks of strutting their TFTA stuff from the start of the Libyan war, they went running to Unkil since they ran out of munitions to drop (mind you they were only flying a couple dozen fighters).
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... story.html

Libya “has not been a very big war. If [the Europeans] would run out of these munitions this early in such a small operation, you have to wonder what kind of war they were planning on fighting,” said John Pike, director of GlobalSecurity.org, a defense think tank. “Maybe they were just planning on using their air force for air shows.”

While buying a few hundred TFTA bombs like AASM and Spice is ok, but we need 1000's of dal-roti PGMs like the JDAM that cost a fraction of of these. The US for example buys ~20-30k JDAM kits every year! With the size of our airforce we should be buying at least 5K-10K PGMs annually. Our current buys are probably enough for "special missions" like Balakot only, a two front war with full 30 squadrons fighting we will be mostly dropping dumb bombs, drastically reducing sortie effectiveness.

My wet dream was asking for US to 10k JDAM kits from their arsenal (might cost only in the order400 m even with significant markups) and integrate it with Su-30's on expedited basis (it will ever happen though for various reasons).

[nam]

Pakistanis have US JDAM since 2005.

Paks have been super smart in their weapons buy. JDAM, Bomb ER kit, Raad. And ofcourse babur CM. On the other side IAF, which has a budget greater than the entire defence budget of Pak, has only 60KM Spice to show.

We did buy uber expensive Matra BGL bomb kits and Thales ATLIS-2 pods for Mirage 2000. The bombs were sparingly or never used and shown in displays/exhibitions only.

Our usual story. Buy super expensive kit. Since it is expensive, buy in small numbers, not to be ever used. When a crisis hits, politicians gets told, we don't have enough weapons. And we blame politicians when they don't want to go to war.

I find it incredible that old PAF Mirages are able to field a 300KM CM, while a premier 4 Gen air superiority fighter like Su30 has nothing even closer to that! Please don't say Brahmos...
Even the bloody Spice is not integrated with Su30. It has been a after though post balakot.

[brar_w]

The biggest USP is the Imaging Infra Red seeker that is there only on US SDB-2 that is a much smaller 100 kg class weapon.

No other air to surface tactical weapon in the world today has an IIR seeker.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7625&p=2450006#p2450006

[Manish_Sharma]

AASM Hammer

[Kartik]

The IAF uses these weapons frugally

http://bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/history/k ... #gsc.tab=0

Only 9 LGB’s were dropped during the whole war, 8 by the Mirage fleet and one by a Jaguar.

Not applicable any longer. That was true In 1999 during the Kargil war when the IAF had far fewer stocks and only the Mirage-2000 capable of dropping them that too after an urgent and hurried testing and qualification test and trials period. Now the bulk of that IAF fleet can use LGBs and PGMS.

[Karan M]

The Hammer is powered. The Spice is not. This is a crucial difference. You don't have to go high and fast (i.e. in a LRSAM's envelope) to fire the Hammer. You can fire it when you are down in the weeds so to speak. The closest equivalent to it conceptually are the AGM-65 Maverick and the Kh-29TE series, now the Kh-38. The Hammer is a good weapon for AD destruction, part of counter surface operations.

nam: Hammer was among the weapons that was optioned for, to use aboard the Rafale.

Now with the ongoing border situation, that option is being exercised. Please see below (from 2017).

The Spice is the corresponding equivalent to the Hammer; both are add on kits that feature ins/gps, ir/optical and laser guidance. The spice is even integrated onto Mirage. The hammer has the rocket as part of the range extension, which ought to provide a different set of target attack profile parts

Autonomous after it has been dropped, it can be used at low altitudes, cross hilly terrain or veer sharply from the firing aircraft.

There could be subtler differences that escape me (eg hammer has a 250kg option, which doesn't appear on spice page). Are there any other reasons that would justify an emergency purchase (eg time taken for aircraft separation tests for spice on rafael ?) and higher costs

[Karan M]

Pakistanis have US JDAM since 2005.

Paks have been super smart in their weapons buy. JDAM, Bomb ER kit, Raad. And ofcourse babur CM. On the other side IAF, which has a budget greater than the entire defence budget of Pak, has only 60KM Spice to show.

We did buy uber expensive Matra BGL bomb kits and Thales ATLIS-2 pods for Mirage 2000. The bombs were sparingly or never used and shown in displays/exhibitions only.

Our usual story. Buy super expensive kit. Since it is expensive, buy in small numbers, not to be ever used. When a crisis hits, politicians gets told, we don't have enough weapons. And we blame politicians when they don't want to go to war.

I find it incredible that old PAF Mirages are able to field a 300KM CM, while a premier 4 Gen air superiority fighter like Su30 has nothing even closer to that! Please don't say Brahmos...
Even the bloody Spice is not integrated with Su30. It has been a after though post balakot.

IAF Su-30 inventory - per what is publicly stated:
KAB-500, KAB-1500, Kh-59, Kh-29, Brahmos, Griffin LGB, SPICE-2000, Kh-31 A/P

Mirage 2000
Spice-2000, Paveway-2, Griffin (amongst other LGBs), Crystal Maze

Jaguar
Paveway 2, Griffin, CBU-105, Harpoon

Rafale
SCALP, Hammer (for now), additional items as part of ISE

We have many weapons on our platforms. Soon Astra, SAAW and NGARM will add to the list as will the glide units.

[Aditya_V]

Karan we should have many more if we fixed our defense procurement system, the way Nag and private sector ammo has been dealt with leaves no hope. A few dozen hammer and a handful of Rafales will not win an wars.

[ramana]

KaranM, one info revealed in tweets about Balakot is 6 Griffin HSLD were used from M2K. That and 5 Spice2K.

[RKumar]

Everything said and done, I don’t agree with spending 8 billions on 36 planes except for noclear delivery. This amount invested in local industries would have made much bigger impact. We are still waiting for local weapons order after endless testing. Anyway I don’t understand way of GoI and Gods work.

[abhik]

KaranM, one info revealed in tweets about Balakot is 6 Griffin HSLD were used from M2K. That and 5 Spice2K.

I have my doubts (first time i'm hearing about it), Grffin is an LGB, i.e. it would have had to be designated till impact, so we wold have had videos of the impact. We used Spice from standoff range is well documented.

[nam]

It was Crystal Maze, not Griffin.

[MeshaVishwas]

I'm in love with this jet.

[veejey]

Today's is 26th July. Any update about when this bird is arriving in India?

[JayS]

KaranM, one info revealed in tweets about Balakot is 6 Griffin HSLD were used from M2K. That and 5 Spice2K.

Crystal Maze, not griffin.

This article by the then WAC C-in-C AM Harikumar is the most authoritative and detailed account on the Air strikes and Air battle the next day.


https://www.theweek.in/theweek/specials ... ssion=true

[JayS]

Today's is 26th July. Any update about when this bird is arriving in India?

29th

[Sumeet]

Will Rafael's BNET SDR also be used on Rafale F3+ of IAF or we have procured some french equipment ?

Anyone has any idea of planned SATCOM abilities of Rafale ?

[Aditya_V]

I presume Rafale will come with own SDR, all our legacy aircraft were pre digital era, the Su-30MKI scream for an upgrade with AESA radar , MAWS, SDR, updated IRST, ODL and more important long range BVR's, RVV -BD for Awacs, fleet wise Astra availability etc.

[Aditya_V]

First batch of 5 Rafale jets takes off from France for India

[Sumeet]

I presume Rafale will come with own SDR, all our legacy aircraft were pre digital era, the Su-30MKI scream for an upgrade with AESA radar , MAWS, SDR, updated IRST, ODL and more important long range BVR's, RVV -BD for Awacs, fleet wise Astra availability etc.

Aditya,

Don't even get me started on how disappointed I am with state of our modernization. I really hope in next 5 years with Tejas Mk1A and Mk2/MWF we develop AESA, IRST, All digital EW suite, SDR and ODL at a minimum. These could be adapted into Super 30 program as well and next generation of these components can given edge to first batch of AMCA. This decade will be a very important one for us. Lack of progress on Russian side, plus not much advancement on our side is a handicap for our Su-30 Super 30 program.

Anyways, even for Rafale only F4 standard will get SATCOM and SDR as per Dassault. Seems like they are pre digital era as of F3+. This just tells how cutting edge Massa remains (check Block 3 Super Hornet for comparison). No one pushes frontiers like the Americans.

https://www.dassault-aviation.com/en/gr ... -launched/

In our role as industrial architect, we will be responsible for implementing innovative connectivity solutions to optimize the effectiveness of our aircraft in networked combat (new satellite and intra-patrol links, communication server, software defined radio).