We would have had 7 additional fully operational squadrons of a potent 4.5 gen multi-role fighter which the IAF knows extremely well. So no. I do not believe we would have needed them. Especially since 5 newly arrived Rafales which are not fully operational yet will have no bearing on the Ladakh situation as it stands currently.pandyan wrote:Question: if original MRCA 126 M2Ks were available and assuming they were upgraded to current M2K-India standards, would you still need Rafales to handle china threat? I know this is a silly question. I am suspecting that Rafale would still be needed.
VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Some unconfirmed reports that Iranian Missiles landed about 15 nautical miles away from the UAE airport where Indian Rafale's are parked.
@TheWolfPackIn - More than 15 nautical miles away though.
https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 45889?s=19
@Skywatcher_IND - BREAKING - Three Iranian missiles landed very close to the base in UAE where Indian Rafales are currently parked
https://twitter.com/Anakin_IAF/status/1 ... 59392?s=19
@lucastomnilson- Two bases in Middle East housing U.S. troops and aircraft went on high alert when 3 Iranian missiles splashed down in waters near the bases Tues. as part of Iran’s military exercises: official
Missiles landed "close enough" to Al Dhafra in UAE and Al Udeid in Qatar for concern.
https://twitter.com/LucasFoxNews/status ... 27808?s=19
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
A single Rafale armed with SCALP can take out a PLA radar / SAM site or a command post of the PLA, deep inside occupied Tibet.nachiket wrote: Especially since 5 newly arrived Rafales which are not fully operational yet will have no bearing on the Ladakh situation as it stands currently.
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Get those birds out and take them to Bhuj or Jamnagar AFS before USAF or IrAF make the region a no fly zone.
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
The Derby/Python on any number of existing aircraft can do the same.eklavya wrote:A single Rafale armed with SCALP can take out a PLA radar / SAM site or a command post of the PLA, deep inside occupied Tibet.nachiket wrote: Especially since 5 newly arrived Rafales which are not fully operational yet will have no bearing on the Ladakh situation as it stands currently.
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
I don't think the Derby/Python has residual Air to Ground capability. Even if they did, I don't think they would be the most optimal systems for that role given the performance limitations.Mort Walker wrote:The Derby/Python on any number of existing aircraft can do the same.eklavya wrote:
A single Rafale armed with SCALP can take out a PLA radar / SAM site or a command post of the PLA, deep inside occupied Tibet.
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
They are both air to air missiles Derby range is 60 km and python 5 range is 20 kilometers with 15 kg warhead.Mort Walker wrote:
The Derby/Python on any number of existing aircraft can do the same.
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
You could say the same of of a Single Su-30 armed with a Brahmos and we have 40 of those (the modified variants which can carry the Brahmos). In either of those cases, the location of the site would need to be known precisely because neither of them are anti-radiation missiles and cannot home in on a SAM radar by themselves. They can only guide themselves to a pre-selected target.eklavya wrote:
A single Rafale armed with SCALP can take out a PLA radar / SAM site or a command post of the PLA, deep inside occupied Tibet.
I'm not saying the Rafales aren't a welcome addition. I'm just saying teh "game-changing" nature of them won't be realised till we have a decent number of them in country and more importantly a pool of pilots and maintenance persoannel trained and experienced in flying and fighting with them and keeping them up and running.
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Statement from CENTCOM:
Today "Iran launched several ballistic missiles from Iran to the Southern Arabian Gulf. Initial assessment indicated a potential threat to Al Udeid Air Base & Al Dhafra. Out of an abundance of caution, both bases enacted a heightened alert status. The incident lasted for a matter of minutes, & an all clear was declared after the threat indicator had passed...The US condemns these irresponsible missile launches"
Both the Armée de l'Air & USAF (380th Expeditionary) are based at Al Dhafra AB, the French have a handful of Mirage 2000's based there in addition to the occasional Rafale's that were instrumental in bombing IS arms depots in Libya and Syria. The Americans recently redeployed the 388th's F-35's to the base, as far as I know it isn't protected by Patriot permanently.
Today "Iran launched several ballistic missiles from Iran to the Southern Arabian Gulf. Initial assessment indicated a potential threat to Al Udeid Air Base & Al Dhafra. Out of an abundance of caution, both bases enacted a heightened alert status. The incident lasted for a matter of minutes, & an all clear was declared after the threat indicator had passed...The US condemns these irresponsible missile launches"
Both the Armée de l'Air & USAF (380th Expeditionary) are based at Al Dhafra AB, the French have a handful of Mirage 2000's based there in addition to the occasional Rafale's that were instrumental in bombing IS arms depots in Libya and Syria. The Americans recently redeployed the 388th's F-35's to the base, as far as I know it isn't protected by Patriot permanently.
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
I thought there was a air launched anti-radiation variant? On a ground based radar, all you need to do is take out the antenna.brar_w wrote:I don't think the Derby/Python has residual Air to Ground capability. Even if they did, I don't think they would be the most optimal systems for that role given the performance limitations.Mort Walker wrote:
The Derby/Python on any number of existing aircraft can do the same.
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
An air launched Anti Radiation variant of WVR missile. Haven't seen it and not easy to squeeze in an ARM seeker into a WVR weapon while still staying outside the SAM bubble. Just a bad idea all around.
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
^^^I thought there was some Rafale Systems variant of the AGM-88 that was the Python or Derby. Sorry if I am mistaken.
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Most informative post.abhik wrote:An official word on when the next set are going to land? As per the press release the rest of the fighters will be delivered by the end of next year i.e. 30+1 over the next ~1.5 years => on average 5 fighters every quarter, so we could see ~10 by year end (or Jan/Feb next year).
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
I think modified Su-30s were shown to be capable to launch Brahmos. How many such platforms are actually available (Sq. Tiger Sharks) , we don't know. Probably 5 to 10.nachiket wrote:You could say the same of of a Single Su-30 armed with a Brahmos and we have 40 of those (the modified variants which can carry the Brahmos).
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Ambala have received it's Guests !
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
NDTV was saying around 3PM IST on 29 JUL 2020.Prem wrote:Ambala have received it's Guests !
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Stupid question...how would they come to India...flying over Oinkistaan? or another route! Thanks.
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
There is a map flying around on twitter supposedly showing their flight path though can't find it anymore. Essentially they're tracing the southern and western border of pakiland with some buffer.Punjabi wrote:Stupid question...how would they come to India...flying over Oinkistaan? or another route! Thanks.
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
News X reporting that there was a BM attack by Iran near al dhafra and isf rafale pilots had to take cover
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
I think this more or less confirms, Iranian Ballistic missiles are of Chinese origin.
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Oh, wow! That is way overboard.abhishekm wrote:OK, this is seriously getting silly: https://www.rediff.com/news/report/rafa ... 200728.htm
From this article, the following: BJP's Ambala City MLA Aseem Goyal urged to people to light candles in their homes between 7-7:30 pm on Wednesday to welcome the Rafale jets.
All hail the great white man's creations which will deliver salvation for the wretched SDREs!
Our moronic DDM has outdone itself. Especially the Hindi news channels. ABP Live today afternoon was passing off F-16s as Rafales. They were playing this on loop. For an entire show. I know DDM types can't differentiate between a horse and an aircraft but how much worse can it get?
That being, I am happy Rafales are getting national coverage. Other than folks closely following defense, families with their near and dear in the armed forces, and people near the border areas, not many pay attention to our defense preparedness. Hope such news and coverage fans awareness and interest, and the wave is sustained and builds up for our desi systems.
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
I'm glad that rafale arrival is getting such mass media coverage. If nothing, it'll give some great PR to the air force and encourage the youth to serve the nation even more.
Though, I'm somewhat disappointed that the LCA, despite being our very own never received such coverage during any of its landmark events. That's perhaps reflected in our mindset which values phoren Maal much more than desi efforts. Unfortunately some of it also permiates into the armed forces procurement mindset.
Though, I'm somewhat disappointed that the LCA, despite being our very own never received such coverage during any of its landmark events. That's perhaps reflected in our mindset which values phoren Maal much more than desi efforts. Unfortunately some of it also permiates into the armed forces procurement mindset.
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
I am just a lurker and have no knowledge of these matters, but based on Air Marshal Raghunath Nambiar's interview below, from 8:07 onwards, even with just 5 Rafales, as far as enemy is concerned, every intruding IAF fighter could be a Rafale due to which the enemy will have to re-engineer its tactics to cater for the Rafale as the serious threat that it is.nachiket wrote:You could say the same of of a Single Su-30 armed with a Brahmos and we have 40 of those (the modified variants which can carry the Brahmos). In either of those cases, the location of the site would need to be known precisely because neither of them are anti-radiation missiles and cannot home in on a SAM radar by themselves. They can only guide themselves to a pre-selected target.eklavya wrote:A single Rafale armed with SCALP can take out a PLA radar / SAM site or a command post of the PLA, deep inside occupied Tibet.
I'm not saying the Rafales aren't a welcome addition. I'm just saying teh "game-changing" nature of them won't be realised till we have a decent number of them in country and more importantly a pool of pilots and maintenance persoannel trained and experienced in flying and fighting with them and keeping them up and running.
Also, the passion with which Air Marshal speaks about Tejas towards the end of the interview is amazing.
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Even these 5 will be game changers.
Each can carry 4 Meteor with 130km effective range. Thats 20 missiles.
In 1965 FizzleYa had 12 F104 which impacted IAF tactics.
Each can carry 4 Meteor with 130km effective range. Thats 20 missiles.
In 1965 FizzleYa had 12 F104 which impacted IAF tactics.
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Dont think it's true, identification is done by electronic signatures, not just a "radar blip" .manish singh wrote:I am just a lurker and have no knowledge of these matters, but based on Air Marshal Raghunath Nambiar's interview below, from 8:07 onwards, even with just 5 Rafales, as far as enemy is concerned, every intruding IAF fighter could be a Rafale due to which the enemy will have to re-engineer its tactics to cater for the Rafale as the serious threat that it is.nachiket wrote:
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Probably the Air Marshal meant that these 5 Rafales could intrude anywhere, so the enemy will have to re-engineer its tactics across all its affected assets assuming that Rafale could hit them.kit wrote: Dont think it's true, identification is done by electronic signatures, not just a "radar blip" .
Once, Rafale intrudes, I leave it to the knowledge of members of this forum, on how easy it is to identify type of aircraft. But, even assuming that the enemy can immediately detect that the intruding aircraft is Rafale, it still doesn't change the fact that it would have to re-engineer its tactics beforehand to be able to adequately defend itself against Rafale.
Question is how long will it take China to re-engineer its tactics and augment its defenses to account for Rafale.
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
looks like now PAF will have to fly over iran and afghanistan as part of tactics re engineering !! and once S400 comes in ..maybe over Iraq??manish singh wrote:Probably the Air Marshal meant that these 5 Rafales could intrude anywhere, so the enemy will have to re-engineer its tactics across all its affected assets assuming that Rafale could hit them.kit wrote: Dont think it's true, identification is done by electronic signatures, not just a "radar blip" .
Once, Rafale intrudes, I leave it to the knowledge of members of this forum, on how easy it is to identify type of aircraft. But, even assuming that the enemy can immediately detect that the intruding aircraft is Rafale, it still doesn't change the fact that it would have to re-engineer its tactics beforehand to be able to adequately defend itself against Rafale.
Question is how long will it take China to re-engineer its tactics and augment its defenses to account for Rafale.
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
imo chinis wouldn't be too worried about Rafales. Given our gandhian attitude, we're unlikely to intrude except for a war. In case of which, one assumes, they would be adequately prepared since they control the escalation ladder.
It's the pakis who would be feeling the real burn especially since after Balakot we've showed that from now on there will be surprise visits to find the naughty people
It's the pakis who would be feeling the real burn especially since after Balakot we've showed that from now on there will be surprise visits to find the naughty people
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
https://twitter.com/DefenceMinIndia/sta ... 1508359177
The Birds have entered the Indian airspace..Happy Landing in Ambala!
@IAF_MCC
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Enthusiasm in air, among Ambala residents before touchdown of Rafale at airbase
As per information the residents are enthusiastic about arrival and they are planning celebration with distribution of sweets, dancing on drum beats, leaving balloons in the air and turning their house lights on between 7 to 7.30 pm in the evening.
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
The Su30 was armed..
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
They were probably escorting the Rafales from Oman Airspace to Indian Airspace so PAF cannot try its tricks, even INS Kolkota was positioned to intercept as the Rafales probably flying ferry Range with just a couple of MICA IR eachnam wrote:The Su30 was armed..
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Rafale's were not armed. Countries don't allow foreign jets to fly with weapons in their airspace.
The escorts were obviously to prevent the PAF jokers are trying out tricks. Unarmed Rafale would have been sitting ducks for a PR nuisance.
Imagine the uproar if few JF17/F16 managed to fly next to it over international waters.
The escorts were obviously to prevent the PAF jokers are trying out tricks. Unarmed Rafale would have been sitting ducks for a PR nuisance.
Imagine the uproar if few JF17/F16 managed to fly next to it over international waters.
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Touchdown of Rafale at Ambala: https://twitter.com/rajnathsingh/status ... 3173234690
Watercanon salute: https://twitter.com/zone5aviation/statu ... 2484404225
Watercanon salute: https://twitter.com/zone5aviation/statu ... 2484404225
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Really dumb of the person on Twitter to mistake a drop tank for a missile, still VishalJ patiently clarifies.
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Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Doesnt matter. More people should be interested in defense. More kids needs to take up aeronautics & propulsion. We need a whole bunch of new companies to cater to the various sectors in domestic market.
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Here hereNeela wrote:Doesnt matter. More people should be interested in defense. More kids needs to take up aeronautics & propulsion. We need a whole bunch of new companies to cater to the various sectors in domestic market.
a post to enshrine and keep as a model.
The essence of BR Forums
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
I have never seen such ridiculous coverage of a fighter jet handover to India as rafale. The indian media and the hundreds of YouTube Indian defence expert channels have set a record for bizarre behaviour which puts even the nerds to shame.
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
Now at least(due to less number of Rafales) enemy AWACS and Refuellers needs to be more cautious of METEORS flying in the sky!!
Re: VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016
the hans must be quaking in the boots.nvishal wrote:I have never seen such ridiculous coverage of a fighter jet handover to India as rafale. The indian media and the hundreds of YouTube Indian defence expert channels have set a record for bizarre behaviour which puts even the nerds to shame.
we will now win every war for the next two centuries
All it needs is a suicide missioned "head master's son" type of guy with an el cheapo shoulder fired thingee to puncuture India's balloon and thereafter watch the media cockroaches and other snake oil politicos baying for Modi's blood.
This massive OTT effort has been purposely hyped up and slyly orchestrated by the hostile media and sold out venal "defence experts" to set the stage for anyone willing to do the dirty.