Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 04 Aug 2020 19:11

https://twitter.com/singhshwetabh71/sta ... 72801?s=20 ---> Man, the ATAGS is big.

sum · Post by **sum** » 04 Aug 2020 19:45

Holy *****

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 04 Aug 2020 21:31

this is huge.. that means it might not go everywhere..long range should take care of that ..

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 04 Aug 2020 21:44

ArjunPandit wrote:this is huge.. that means it might not go everywhere..long range should take care of that ..

Guys, stop flippantly saying such things, so it becomes an axiom.

Rakesh-saar, it is the angle of the pic. Those troopers are standing quite a bit behind the tow-arm, compared to the photographer. The gun is heavier than FH77, but seem to want to stick to the tow-length of the older gun

For reference with human form (From Rediff):

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 04 Aug 2020 21:47

hnair wrote:Rakesh-saar, it is the angle of the pic. Those troopers are standing quite a bit behind the tow-arm, compared to the photographer. The gun is heavier than FH77, but seem to want to stick to the tow-length of the older gun.

100% correct Saar. I just cut-and-paste the tweet (comment and picture) in its entirety.

That angle makes it look massive.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 05 Aug 2020 01:20

Rakesh wrote:
hnair wrote:Rakesh-saar, it is the angle of the pic. Those troopers are standing quite a bit behind the tow-arm, compared to the photographer. The gun is heavier than FH77, but seem to want to stick to the tow-length of the older gun.
100% correct Saar. I just cut-and-paste the tweet (comment and picture) in its entirety.

That angle makes it look massive.

I have seen the gun in front of my eyes and its not that big.

I hope these images give a better idea.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 05 Aug 2020 01:21

Lucky you! Us mortals have to live with pictures

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Aug 2020 01:39

nam wrote:So Arjun MK1A chassis weight is 40 ton with mine plough and turret around 28 ton with ERA.

Can you compare that to the K-9 chassis and the engine please?

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 05 Aug 2020 14:46

ATAGS pictures from Republic Day 2017 unveiling are a good reference

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6651&start=2320#p2103438

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 05 Aug 2020 15:13

hnair wrote:
ArjunPandit wrote:this is huge.. that means it might not go everywhere..long range should take care of that ..
Guys, stop flippantly saying such things, so it becomes an axiom.

sure sir..thanks for the correction...apologies!

pushkar.bhat · Post by **pushkar.bhat** » 06 Aug 2020 14:33

Didn't we drop the Bhim+Denel Gun in favour of the K9 Vajra..

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 06 Aug 2020 14:52

pushkar.bhat wrote:Didn't we drop the Bhim+Denel Gun in favour of the K9 Vajra..

Spot on...

Like a hot potato...

John · Post by **John** » 06 Aug 2020 14:56

ks_sachin wrote:
pushkar.bhat wrote:Didn't we drop the Bhim+Denel Gun in favour of the K9 Vajra..
Spot on...

Like a hot potato...

We didn’t drop Bhim it was no longer an option for IA due to sanctions and had to go for another option.

jaysimha · Post by **jaysimha** » 06 Aug 2020 14:58

I am not sure about the authenticity, but found this ,,, may be deleted if it is fake.
----------

Indian Army MLRS MISSILE testing in Rajasthan | Mighty Indian Army

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXN5XN8Vkak

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 06 Aug 2020 15:00

It wasn't going anywhere quickly either John. the DRDO-OFB combination meant the army was dragging its feet on the matter as well.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 06 Aug 2020 16:39

John wrote:
ks_sachin wrote: Spot on...

Like a hot potato...
We didn’t drop Bhim it was no longer an option for IA due to sanctions and had to go for another option.

I meant that IA dropped it like a hot potato due to the sanctions. Hot potato was more a ref to the corruption allegations. No one at AHQ would like to touch it

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 06 Aug 2020 16:44

jaysimha wrote:I am not sure about the authenticity, but found this ,,, may be deleted if it is fake.
----------

Indian Army MLRS MISSILE testing in Rajasthan | Mighty Indian Army

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXN5XN8Vkak

That is a Grad BM21. What testing?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 07 Aug 2020 12:23

Another one of ATAGS with the angle effect.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 07 Aug 2020 13:22

Ramana Sir,

I was watching a video on use of Arty in direct fire mode in the US Army as well as the Canadian Army.

One interesting thing that was mentioned is that when using arty in direct fire mode the charge used us different?

Does that resonate and if it does then could you please share your knowledge.

Regards

S

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 08 Aug 2020 13:47

Aditya_V, thanks.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 08 Aug 2020 14:16

Sir, Just right click on the Url image and copy image address, that you can put in between the [img][img].

You can delete my posts after the correction.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 08 Aug 2020 20:32

I put the wrong URL.

But, since images are not always rendered on my browser correctly, I assumed it was one such case. Thanks for fixing.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 08 Aug 2020 21:18

Bhim has a very interesting story.

Indian Army had invited all the leading SP (Tracked) systems for evaluation. But what it was looking for was to mate the turret of these systems on T-72 chassis for obvious reasons.

T-72 chassis proved unequal to the task and seemed to have developed issues under sustained firing.

This is where the Arjun chassis came into picture. Bhim was a done deal but for two issues:

1. Renuka Chowdhary of the Congress wrote a letter to MOD when NDA-1 was still in service questioning the selection of Denel over the Russian gun. She repeated this letter exercise when UPA-1 came into power post 2004.

Later, there were press reports that she'd done this under the influence of bureaucrats and army officers who were pimping the Russian gun.

2. Denel got black-listed in 2005 over the supply of anti-material rifle. Ultimate irony is that it was exonerated in this case in 2018.

India lost out on a wonderful gun which in probability would've also pushed domestic development in other gun categories as well.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 08 Aug 2020 21:37

rohitvats wrote:Bhim has a very interesting story.

Indian Army had invited all the leading SP (Tracked) systems for evaluation. But what it was looking for was to mate the turret of these systems on T-72 chassis for obvious reasons.

T-72 chassis proved unequal to the task and seemed to have developed issues under sustained firing.

This is where the Arjun chassis came into picture. Bhim was a done deal but for two issues:

1. Renuka Chowdhary of the Congress wrote a letter to MOD when NDA-1 was still in service questioning the selection of Denel over the Russian gun. She repeated this letter exercise when UPA-1 came into power post 2004.

Later, there were press reports that she'd done this under the influence of bureaucrats and army officers who were pimping the Russian gun.

2. Denel got black-listed in 2005 over the supply of anti-material rifle. Ultimate irony is that it was exonerated in this case in 2018.

India lost out on a wonderful gun which in probability would've also pushed domestic development in other gun categories as well.

Rohit, thanks for the inside information (Renuka Chowdhary's dad was in the army as per her claim)
Saw your explanation on current China standoff one of the TV channel it was very good

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 08 Aug 2020 22:12

Denel blacklisting was part of CBM measures as those anti material rifles were causing trouble for the Pakis.

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 08 Aug 2020 22:19

Weren't all the China specific weapons cancelled or delayed by UPA?

YashG · Post by **YashG** » 09 Aug 2020 00:09

Aditya_V wrote:Denel blacklisting was part of CBM measures as those anti material rifles were causing trouble for the Pakis.

is there anything more to read in this somewhere?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Aug 2020 10:30

You mean anti material rifles causing damage?

Vamsee · Post by **Vamsee** » 09 Aug 2020 10:47

Artillery is now a part of negative list. India will not import any artillery from anywhere!

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 09 Aug 2020 11:53

Super no wonder army is buying the sig sauer now. This is a really good move.

k prasad · Post by **k prasad** » 09 Aug 2020 12:12

Hmm... As happy as I am with the decision to create the negative list, the specificity of the released list actually seems to me will counteract any benefits... It's almost like they looked at a list of locally available products that the MoD has already decided to buy and chose to list the products accordingly.

If they wanted to really create opportunities for local development of military hardware, they would have been more general in the listing on the negative import items... For example, listing "Small arms ammunition", "infantry transport vehicles", or "Field Artillery weapons not designated as ultralight". The shipborne cruise missile and 7.62 sniper rifles are good starts.

[EDIT] I notice that armoured fighting vehicles are in the list with an embargo year 2021, so I stand happily corrected. Now let's actually meet these timelines!

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 09 Aug 2020 15:20

This is a very welcome step and creates a bold new approach. Let the nascent Indian private MIC deliver on the modest but yet decent list put together in time. Then this list can be expanded further.

More than the list, the intent and direction is super important. The recent reforms and relaxations regarding Pvt industry participation in defence and space and opening up that space for upto 100% FDI (or was it 75%) and the logistics and approval framework under the national refence industrial corridor have all come together nicely.

By end 2021, this list can be further expanded significantly.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 09 Aug 2020 23:58

rohitvats wrote:Bhim has a very interesting story.

India lost out on a wonderful gun which in probability would've also pushed domestic development in other gun categories as well.

Also might have resurrected the Arjun

nam · Post by **nam** » 10 Aug 2020 02:00

The list for artillery is fascinating. No importing 39cal ULH. NOT 45/52 cal ULH.

MGS is not in the list.

Importing does not mean, no ToT. If Israeli towed is contracted, BF is suppose to produce it locally anyways.

As usual MoD has played with the words nicely.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 10 Aug 2020 02:01

nam wrote:The list for artillery is fascinating. No importing 39cal ULH.

Kalyani prototypes are ready. Time for MoD to put money where their mouth is.

ramdas · Post by **ramdas** » 10 Aug 2020 02:05

All ULH are 39 cal AFAIK. There is a 58 cal mod of the M777 but that may no longer be ultra-light.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Aug 2020 05:53

Thakur_B wrote:
nam wrote:The list for artillery is fascinating. No importing 39cal ULH.
Kalyani prototypes are ready. Time for MoD to put money where their mouth is.

Thats why its on the list.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 10 Aug 2020 08:00

ramdas wrote:All ULH are 39 cal AFAIK. There is a 58 cal mod of the M777 but that may no longer be ultra-light.

A 155mm by 58 gun wont be easily transportable?. The gun alone will be 9 meters long, plus add 2 more meters, it difficult for any helicopter to balance it.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 10 Aug 2020 11:17

Kakarat wrote:
Rakesh wrote: 100% correct Saar. I just cut-and-paste the tweet (comment and picture) in its entirety.

That angle makes it look massive.
I have seen the gun in front of my eyes and its not that big.

I hope these images give a better idea.

Thank you for clarifying and posting these images Kakarat. Otherwise, without any reason a new canard will start floating around that ATAGS is too big and won't go certain places.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 10 Aug 2020 11:56

rohitvats wrote:Bhim has a very interesting story.

Indian Army had invited all the leading SP (Tracked) systems for evaluation. But what it was looking for was to mate the turret of these systems on T-72 chassis for obvious reasons.

T-72 chassis proved unequal to the task and seemed to have developed issues under sustained firing.

This is where the Arjun chassis came into picture. Bhim was a done deal but for two issues:

1. Renuka Chowdhary of the Congress wrote a letter to MOD when NDA-1 was still in service questioning the selection of Denel over the Russian gun. She repeated this letter exercise when UPA-1 came into power post 2004.

Later, there were press reports that she'd done this under the influence of bureaucrats and army officers who were pimping the Russian gun.

2. Denel got black-listed in 2005 over the supply of anti-material rifle. Ultimate irony is that it was exonerated in this case in 2018.

India lost out on a wonderful gun which in probability would've also pushed domestic development in other gun categories as well.

Could you please post this on Twitter too Rohit? The larger community of Indians must get to know about the huge lost opportunity and the sabotage by political actors with support from other quarters?