India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

[SidSoma]

This is completely flaming tweet by Shooklaw.. I dont know why he has to do this...

https://twitter.com/ajaishukla/status/1 ... 71105?s=20

Express cites Chinese monitoring as "hybrid warfare".

Says: "hybrid warfare seeks to incite social discord, disrupt economic activities, undermine institutions, and discredit political leadership and intelligentsia."

Arent the bhakts already doing that?

May not be wrong to point out that many currently feel he is the spear head of that hybrid warfare in india for china

[Dilbu]

Indian Army Has Broken The US Myth About China Being An “Unbeatable Martial Monolith”

After the Pentagon’s annual report on China declared the People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) as “the largest navy in the world“ and highlighted its increasing capabilities, the former director of National Security Council Secretariat believes that such forecasts and warnings did not affect Indian decision to counter Chinese belligerence in Ladakh.

Chinese military analyst, Wei Dongxu, quoted by Global Times (GT) Pentagon’s report seeks an increased budget from the US Congress “by portraying the Chinese army as threatening.”

Unlike the US, Indian Forces have faced the Chinese PLA head-on without undermining its strength. Kartha emphasised that the Indian Armed Forces displayed resolution in defence by recognising that they are confronting a powerful adversary which they once thought could be befriended.

[g.sarkar]

https://www.indiatoday.in/news-analysis ... 2020-09-12
Is China plotting to stoke insurgency in Arunachal Pradesh?
China's honey-trapping tactics are nothing new. The PLA is known to threaten Tibetan women to force themselves on Indians, especially army personnel. That the border areas in Arunachal Pradesh are porous and unfenced makes it easier for PLA and Chinese intelligence agencies to indulge in such illegal activities.
Col Vinayak Bhat (Retd), New Delhi, September 13, 2020
The five youths from Arunachal Pradesh who were allegedly abducted by Chinese forces were returned to India on Saturday. However, there are suspicions that the People's Liberation Army could have tried to brainwash the youths into the Chinese version of communism by honey-trapping them. China wouldn't need to try hard to show the youths how communism is 'good' for them. They would simply be sent to pubs and made to mingle with young girls forced to seduce them.
China's honey-trapping tactics are nothing new. The PLA is known to threaten Tibetan women to force themselves on Indians, especially army personnel. That the border areas in Arunachal Pradesh are porous and unfenced makes it easier for PLA and Chinese intelligence agencies to indulge in such illegal activities.
China has started applying a new strategy to claim areas that were never its part, such as Arunachal Pradesh. Such preposterous claims are used to force India into accepting the illegal occupation of Aksai Chin and Shaksgam Valley, and permit CPEC to pass through Pakistan-occupied Kashmir.
China has been using every visit by Indian VVIPs to Arunachal Pradesh as a pretext to raise objections and use it as an opportunity to reiterate ridiculous claims to the area to keep India on the back foot. The Chinese penchant for changing names is well known. Beijing has been changing names to alter the history of entire regions, their people and religion. Recent utterances by Chinese foreign ministry deputy spokesman Zhao Lijian, who'd acquired a fake "Mohammad" identity while in Pakistan, about Arunachal Pradesh are direct lies without any basis. Lijian said China has never recognised "so-called Arunachal Pradesh" and referred to it as "Zangnan", meaning South Tibet. China has been using the cyber brigade of PLA unit no. 61398 to throw up new baby names for Arunachal Pradesh. With the proliferation of mobile technology, the population is hooked on to cheap Chinese phones, which in turn, throw up predetermined search results.
Thus, the new names in Arunachal Pradesh today are all phonetically akin to tribal names and can yet be written in Pinyin which is the standard system of Romanised transliteration of Chinese language. This was not the case even about 15-20 years ago, indicating that China has been surreptitiously working on this project for a long time.
Infrastructure propaganda
It was a jolt from the blue for Kolkata-based think tank CENERS-K earlier this year when a Shillong University professor from Arunachal Pradesh claimed he feels closer to Tibet than India since Lhasa is closer than Guwahati from Tawang. He said infrastructure across the border is better, and hence, time taken to reach Lhasa is lesser than Guwahati. He wanted the border with Tibet to be opened for trade and tourism. The facts were immediately put forth and he was confronted with the exact situation in Tibet even after 60 years of Chinese occupation.
The psychological warfare has been systematically unleashed by China on the Indian population, many of whom are blindly believing Chinese propaganda, the aim of which is to undermine the morale of Indian society. The malaise needs to be fought by carrying out studies at different levels and putting forth true facts. Indian authorities must identify target groups and make sure to educate naysayers and fence-sitters alike.
......
Gautam

[Dilbu]

‘Ready to strike a heavy blow’: Chinese state media warmongers amid India-China LAC tensions

New Delhi: The situation along the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in Ladakh continues to remain tense with troops of both countries locked up in standoffs at several points along the de-facto border.

However, within days of India and China reaching the crucial consensus post which there has been no reported untoward incident in eastern Ladakh, a warning has come, via Beijing's state-run media. Hu Xijin, editor-in-chief of the state-run Global Times, tweeted on Monday warning that the People's Liberation Army of China was "ready to strike a heavy blow to Indian troops". Along with the tweeted, Hu also tagged a video of PLA troops taking part in a military exercise.

"PLA is training attacking tanks in Tibet region. Yes, it targets China-India border situation. China hopes the five-point consensus reached between the two foreign ministers can be implemented, but is ready to strike a heavy blow to Indian troops if they refuse to implement it," Hu said in a provocative tweet, not in line with the sentiment being expressed otherwise to seeking peace and tranquility.

The statement from Hu is important as he editorially heads a daily which is nothing but the mouthpiece of the government in Beijing.

[A Deshmukh]

- Gentlemen, I'v finally created a YouTube channel of my own.
- And here's the first analysis which discussed strategic importance of Chushul Sector.
Video Link -

Please have a look and do share your feedback and comments.

Rohit, great work.
Clear, crisp - very good use of 3D maps and overlaying comments. great.

[Dilbu]

India shows the way in checkmating a rampaging China

Indian military experts believe that the taking of Spanggur Gap is seen as a humiliation by the PLA, which set off frantic reactions from China — eight press statements in the 12 hours after the news broke!

Military observers say that given the shocker of losing Spanggur Gap and occupation of Chushul heights, the failure of making a diplomatic headway and the onset of terrible winters, some PLA moves to restore its honour before mid-November could be expected. It is this unfolding scenario that India must prepare for in the days ahead.

Sibal believes that both India and China are holding talks to show the world that they tried hard before deciding to pull the trigger. With Americans going into the poll mode, the chances of a third-party intervention are bleak until a new government comes in. And if that new government happens to be Democrats, it could take several months to figure out the contours of a fresh foreign policy initiative in Asia.

[Roop]

From the Sunday Guardian:

Foreign diplomats praise India’s strong stand against China

They feel the head-on confrontation has enhanced India’s image as a ‘strong’ nation.

https://www.sundayguardianlive.com/news ... tand-china

[Cyrano]

- Gentlemen, I'v finally created a YouTube channel of my own.
- And here's the first analysis which discussed strategic importance of Chushul Sector.

Please have a look and do share your feedback and comments.

Rohitvats, very good stuff. Get ready to seeing "experts" dipping into your content

And time to invest in a high quality microphone. Your voice was uneven and had some booming/waning effects at times.

Subscribed !

[nam]

Looks like the Chinis had Foreign minister talks to stem the loss on the economic front. On LAC they will keep going in circles.

[Deans]

The reason why so much of the Qingzang (Qinghai-Zizang aka Tibet) Railway Is built on elevated viaducts is that it is not ground underneath but permafrost . Destruction of the pillars means rebuilding into the permafrost to achieve the stable support, not merely filling in holes and relaying track. Not something they’ll manage by sending in a corps of engineers to do overnight. Each damaged section will take weeks or months to fix, the latter being the case if damage results in the alignment itself having to be altered in places. Clearly an impressive $5 billion exhibition of engineering and political will but a glass jaw in a wartime logistics chain context.

Add to this the fact that any repairs have to be done at an altitude of 5000 meters, where workers - assuming they are available, will work at a fraction of their efficiency. Because China boasts of super efficient railways, they have relatively few emergency workers (unlike India) who can be deployed for accidents.

[rpartha]

This is completely flaming tweet by Shooklaw.. I dont know why he has to do this...

https://twitter.com/ajaishukla/status/1 ... 71105?s=20

Express cites Chinese monitoring as "hybrid warfare".

Says: "hybrid warfare seeks to incite social discord, disrupt economic activities, undermine institutions, and discredit political leadership and intelligentsia."

Arent the bhakts already doing that?

May not be wrong to point out that many currently feel he is the spear head of that hybrid warfare in india for china

I thought China is smart - if they have made Shooklaw as their spearhead then they are in serious trouble...

[Deans]

Congrats on the youtube Rohit !
For those who are not aware, Rohit Vats blog has some of the best analysis on various aspects of IA's - particularly Order of Battle.

[jamwal]

Who controls this territory marked in red next to Fuk Che in eastern Laddakh ?

[LakshmanPST]

Who controls this territory marked in red next to Fuk Che in eastern Laddakh ?

I have answered it here--->
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7810&p=2447484&hili ... K#p2447484

CHINA

[Aditya_V]

Has been this way since 1962 which was further consolidated by the Chinese in 2008-12 period. The Chinese through thier study knew the importance of flat valley between Chushul and Demchok in 1962 and due to exceptional bravery at Rezang la we have some of the land, but the they came in at Spanggur and Demchok, if any hostilities break out this along with the area west of Spangur is where we must first make the PLA vacate.

[sooraj]

Global Times
@globaltimesnews

China state-affiliated media
A politoons video produced by India Today depicting
@narendramodi
shooting enemies representing Chinese apps is condemned by Chinese netizens as terrorism and provocation of Chinese national sentiments.

https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/sta ... 6735686657

[putnanja]

Calm before the storm ... ?

Nitin Gokhale's tweets ...

https://twitter.com/nitingokhale/status ... 2131083264

While the exact date of the next Corps Commanders level talks in Ladakh is awaited, Indian formations are on highest alert all along Eastern Ladakh, Uttarakhand, Sikkim and Arunachal Pradesh frontiers considering a possibility of Chinese attempt (s) to occupy unheld areas
...

For the past 3-4 days, there is absolute calm on the LAC according to multiple sources. This is seen as unusual given the experience of the past four months in Ladakh. The PLA may attempt a QPQ (quid pro quo) to gain leverage in upcoming talks, feel ground commanders
...
...
There is of course a month plus window for China to withdraw its forces to permanent peace time locations--India's pre-condition for deescalation--if the PLA doesn't want its troops to experience the difficulties of super high altitude deployment for the first time in winter.

[manjgu]

The reason why so much of the Qingzang (Qinghai-Zizang aka Tibet) Railway Is built on elevated viaducts is that it is not ground underneath but permafrost . Destruction of the pillars means rebuilding into the permafrost to achieve the stable support, not merely filling in holes and relaying track. Not something they’ll manage by sending in a corps of engineers to do overnight. Each damaged section will take weeks or months to fix, the latter being the case if damage results in the alignment itself having to be altered in places. Clearly an impressive $5 billion exhibition of engineering and political will but a glass jaw in a wartime logistics chain context.

Add to this the fact that any repairs have to be done at an altitude of 5000 meters, where workers - assuming they are available, will work at a fraction of their efficiency. Because China boasts of super efficient railways, they have relatively few emergency workers (unlike India) who can be deployed for accidents.

Post september cement does not set ....

[pankajs]

Calm before the storm ... ?

Nitin Gokhale's tweets ...

https://twitter.com/nitingokhale/status ... 2131083264
<snip>

If one see the very excellent video analysis done by Rohit, one will come to the realization that the Chinese got into a very bad position with the latest re-adjustment at the LAC. The Indian Army has seized the initiative in the very pivotal Chushul/Spanggur sub-sector.

The Chinese will never settle for this for it will mean not only a loss of 300+ sq km of territory in the Spanggur bowl (only counting up to the Indian claim line. If we decide to take the whole lake and it is possible say by going up to Shanzong, the loss will be much greater) but also a direct opening to Rutog/G219 for the Indian Army. Even if the general public, both in India and China, may not understand this, Xi's opponents in CCP will definitely have an idea of the loss of initiative at this strategic point.

Xi/China have no option but to make some kind of play to re-gain that initiative either in the same sub-sector or somewhere else. There is no other way around what the Indian Army has done.

[RajaRudra]

Add to this the fact that any repairs have to be done at an altitude of 5000 meters, where workers - assuming they are available, will work at a fraction of their efficiency. Because China boasts of super efficient railways, they have relatively few emergency workers (unlike India) who can be deployed for accidents.

Post september cement does not set ....

Sir ji, There are different types(combination) of cement. For the cost, we cannot use that for the entire bridge. But for repairing things, it is well within reach. There are specialized cement combinations that can even SET under water.

[manjgu]

Post september cement does not set ....

Sir ji, There are different types(combination) of cement. For the cost, we cannot use that for the entire bridge. But for repairing things, it is well within reach. There are specialized cement combinations that can even SET under water.[/quote

Sirji ..u r right ..i am aware of quick setting cement used in runway repairs in case of war ..but when u destroy bridges and associated infra then not so easy ...unless u have stocked well.in advance ... i dont think they stock that kind of cement in places other than for runways ...

[pgbhat]

Calm before the storm ... ?

Nitin Gokhale's tweets ...

https://twitter.com/nitingokhale/status ... 2131083264

There is of course a month plus window for China to withdraw its forces to permanent peace time locations--India's pre-condition for deescalation--if the PLA doesn't want its troops to experience the difficulties of super high altitude deployment for the first time in winter.

May be chipanda army is waiting for a timing closer to winter setting in to make retaliation by IA much harder anyways this would mean we need to keep preempting them.

[Dilbu]

India says China laying cables to bolster communications at border flashpoint

LEH: Two Indian officials said Chinese troops were laying a network of optical fibre cables near the Himalayan border with India, suggesting they were digging in for the long haul despite high-level talks aimed at resolving a stand-off there. Such cables, which would provide forward troops with secure lines of communication to bases in the rear, have recently been spotted to the south of Pangong Tso lake in Ladakh, a senior government official said.

[Dilbu]

The potential of a clash is still strong, says Srikanth Kondapalli, a professor of China studies at Jawaharlal Nehru University.
‘Border tussle has debunked the myth of asymmetry in power’

What do you think prompted this change from the Chinese side?

It could be (Russian President Vladimir) Putin’s intervention. In the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO), Russia and China have equal standing. The Chinese cannot say no to Russia because they are heavily dependent on Moscow for policies and coordination in relation to US, EU and Indo-Pacific. The (Chinese) climb down could also be due to the onset of winter. The temperatures in Ladakh at those heights can go to minus 40C and that is not conducive for human safety, forget preparing for a war. We have had a stalemate in Ladakh for four months now and these were the summer months. If you don’t have a result for your mobilization in summer, how can you expect it in winter? The question of success or failure comes with a big question mark in mountain terrain. India has a competitive advantage in mountain warfare—you saw what happened in Galwan valley (15 June, 2020). India came across as a formidable adversary.

On the Indian side, the military was given a free hand, which bolstered their effectiveness, unlike previous governments, which intervened in military operation. This has emboldened the armed forces—there are no pressures on the military. There is coordination at various levels. All of which has helped the Indian Army put up stout resistance. Yet another reason for China to change its mind could be its ongoing tussles in South China Sea, East China Sea (with Japan over Senkaku islands), its battles with the US and Australia (on the diplomatic, trade and other fronts). If they face reverses on the Indian front, then it will have cascading effect in the Taiwan Straits as well as South China Sea, the East China Sea and all the other fronts I just mentioned.

Foreign minister Jaishankar has said that unless there is disengagement of troops, India will not develop bilateral relations. China’s position is, let us focus on developmental partnership—investments in infrastructure and other areas. Clearly, there is a gap between the two sides. India’s position is that Chinese troops have to withdraw to April 2020 positions. I think that is unlikely to happen. So we are likely to see an India-China relationship that is adversarial, difficult and complicated. The Chinese are not likely to vacate lands they have occupied and they will not climb down from that position.

One thing I would like to add here is that what this tension on the India-China border has shown is that the “asymmetry in power" argument does not hold now. There was this argument that India being a $2-trillion economy and China being five times that meant that China had a major advantage. They have a much stronger military force, much bigger economy, bigger military spending etc so India is no match for China—that myth has been busted. Concerted action on the part of India has yielded results.

[Dilbu]

Over 60 Chinese soldiers killed in Galwan Valley clash claims US newspaper report

New Delhi, Sep 14: An American newspaper has claimed that over 60 Chinese soldiers were killed in the Galwan Valley clash with India.

News Week said in an article that in the June 15 clash 60 soldiers of the Chinese PLA had been killed. This comes weeks after another report said that 30 soldiers were killed in the clash, while attributing the same to US intelligence reports.

The report also says that the failure of the PLA on the Indian border would have far reaching effects. The Chinese military had initially told the Chinese president, Xi Jinping that the focus should be on driving out opponents and recruiting loyalists.

[Paul]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-indi ... SKBN26525E

India says China laying cables to bolster communications at border flashpoint
By Devjyot Ghoshal


LEH, India (Reuters) - Two Indian officials said Chinese troops were laying a network of optical fibre cables at a western Himalayan flashpoint with India, suggesting they were digging in for the long haul despite high-level talks aimed at resolving a standoff there.

[S_Madhukar]

Do modern armies have guerilla warfare as a tactic specially India ? or is it always aamne-saamne ? We should trigger an avalanche etc to ensure such advanced infra is not laid out across the borders... can't always fight in a conventional manner...

[Sid]

8 month old video, but judging by troop level and vehicle movement this was serious even back then.

[Dileep]

Post september cement does not set ....

Sir ji, There are different types(combination) of cement. For the cost, we cannot use that for the entire bridge. But for repairing things, it is well within reach. There are specialized cement combinations that can even SET under water.

Under Water: Yes. At freezing temperatures: No. Cement needs to chemically set before the water in the mix freezes. Of course, the setting is exothermic, so probably you can cast a concrete pillar. But thin stuff like slabs or plastering is impossible under heavy freezing conditions, unless you keep it heated.

[fanne]

123

Over 60 Chinese soldiers killed in Galwan Valley clash claims US newspaper report

New Delhi, Sep 14: An American newspaper has claimed that over 60 Chinese soldiers were killed in the Galwan Valley clash with India.

News Week said in an article that in the June 15 clash 60 soldiers of the Chinese PLA had been killed. This comes weeks after another report said that 30 soldiers were killed in the clash, while attributing the same to US intelligence reports.

The report also says that the failure of the PLA on the Indian border would have far reaching effects. The Chinese military had initially told the Chinese president, Xi Jinping that the focus should be on driving out opponents and recruiting loyalists.

[AshishA]

https://indianexpress.com/article/expre ... y-6594861/

This is serious. Tbh I knew it but it is still unnerving to see the scale of Chinese hybrid warfare.

Is there any way we can return the favour?

[vimal]

^^ Naxals and commies have been part of our country since ages. Most of them will lick Mao's boot than stand on their own two feet.

[Cyrano]

https://indianexpress.com/article/expre ... y-6594861/

This is serious. Tbh I knew it but it is still unnerving to see the scale of Chinese hybrid warfare.

Is there any way we can return the favour?

This is par for the course these days. If we are not doing the same thing to a bunch of countries that are of interest to us, and mining at least open source data, then its time to pull up our socks and get to it quickly.

[ramana]

rpartha

Please don't use inflammatory words even in jest. We have hard time as it is.
Will lead to instant ban.

[vinod]

From the Sunday Guardian:

Foreign diplomats praise India’s strong stand against China

They feel the head-on confrontation has enhanced India’s image as a ‘strong’ nation.

https://www.sundayguardianlive.com/news ... tand-china

They are really egging China to do a war!!!

[RajaRudra]

Sir ji, There are different types(combination) of cement. For the cost, we cannot use that for the entire bridge. But for repairing things, it is well within reach. There are specialized cement combinations that can even SET under water.

Under Water: Yes. At freezing temperatures: No. Cement needs to chemically set before the water in the mix freezes. Of course, the setting is exothermic, so probably you can cast a concrete pillar. But thin stuff like slabs or plastering is impossible under heavy freezing conditions, unless you keep it heated.

Yeah, i came to know about this when one of our team involved in plugging a big leak in a reservoir using high pressure. .

[jamwal]

Is this green line accurate for AGPL between India and Pak in Siachen sector?


Thanks Lakshman

SId:
Pangong lake and surrounding area is covered under snow in winters. This video can't be from January.

[rpartha]

rpartha

Please don't use inflammatory words even in jest. We have hard time as it is.
Will lead to instant ban.

Are sure this is for me, sir? What did I do now? Sorry it is a genuine question as not sure what word I used... I just pointed out to what Shooklaw said which is inflammatory... dont think my comment is..

[chetak]

there are some reports about the hans laying long distance fibre optic cables in trenches the standoff zones to avoid radio comms.

apparently they have become super cautious after the thrashing that they got at galwan and the other surprises that followed.

however, the IA continues to use encrypted radio for its comms

India says China laying cables to bolster communications at border flashpoint

"Our biggest worry is that they have laid optical fibre cables for high-speed communications," the first official said, referring to the lake's southern bank, where Indian and Chinese troops are only a few hundred metres apart at some points.

"They have been laying optical fibre cables on the southern bank at breakneck speed," he said.

Indian intelligence agencies noted similar cables to the north of the Pangong Tso lake around a month ago, the second government official said.

The first Indian government official said the authorities were alerted to such activity after satellite imagery showed unusual lines in the sand of the high-altitude deserts to the south of Pangong Tso.

These lines were judged by Indian experts - and corroborated by foreign intelligence agencies - to be communication cables laid in trenches, he said, including near the Spanggur gap, among hilltops where soldiers fired in the air recently for the first time in decades.

Indian officials say a build-up in border infrastructure on their side is also likely to have played a part in the months-long confrontation.

The Chinese have complained about India building roads and air strips in and around their disputed border, and Beijing says this triggered tensions along the border.

A former Indian military intelligence official, who declined to be named because of the sensitivity of the matter, said optical fibre cables offered communications security as well as the ability to send data such as pictures and documents.

"If you speak on radio, it can get caught. Communications on optical fibre cables is secure," he said.

The Indian military still depends on radio communications, the first official said, although he said it was encrypted.

[V_Raman]

I dont know if this has been posted - by Iyerval

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egEL_9hNdZ8

Map from the video