Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 17 Sep 2020 10:21

Saar, I defer to you.

You would know best

MeshaVishwas · Post by **MeshaVishwas** » 21 Sep 2020 13:41

OT:My bad Admiral!
Pls delete the post.

I would have preferred a Deb Rana/Praneeth Franklin/Guna/Angad shot but I will take this any day.

Vajra with the Ayudha

https://twitter.com/Ramandeep_Bajwa/sta ... 23552?s=20 ---> Another shot of a Mirage 2000 over Ladakh on Sept 14 but this time carrying a full load of MICAs, four radar-guided beyond visual range (BVR) and two infra-red guided within visual range (WVR) air-to-air missiles.

Pic credit: Indian Trick Shooter via ANI

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 22 Sep 2020 01:29

The MICA has given the M2k such a quantum leap in capability. From 1 drop tank + 2 BVR + 2CCM (max loadout) to 2 Drop tanks + 4 BVR + 2 CCM (also with limited BVR capability). Increasing fuel, payload and lethality of the missiles all at the same time. Shame it took so long for us to start upgrading them thanks to the cost. They had become practically irrelevant for the air-superiority role in the IAF. If there had been a conflict in the late 2000's-mid-2010's period, our M2k's would have been relegated to strike missions only and would have required Su-30 escorts.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 22 Sep 2020 01:45

MeshaVishwas wrote:OT:My bad Admiral!
Pls delete the post.

No apologies are needed. I deleted my post and kept yours.

Once you have seen this message, I will delete the back-and-forth posts as well.

dkhare · Post by **dkhare** » 22 Sep 2020 02:08

nachiket wrote:The MICA has given the M2k such a quantum leap in capability. From 1 drop tank + 2 BVR + 2CCM (max loadout) to 2 Drop tanks + 4 BVR + 2 CCM (also with limited BVR capability). Increasing fuel, payload and lethality of the missiles all at the same time. Shame it took so long for us to start upgrading them thanks to the cost. They had become practically irrelevant for the air-superiority role in the IAF. If there had been a conflict in the late 2000's-mid-2010's period, our M2k's would have been relegated to strike missions only and would have required Su-30 escorts.

On the centerline pylon, there seems to be a fuel tank as well - rather slender for a fuel tank though - or is it another type of pod?

So, 3 external fuel tanks, 4 RF MICA AAMs, and 2 IR MICA AAMs. A loadout for extended CAP probably. Before the upgrade, they would also carry the Remora pod on the outer station further reducing missile loadout.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 22 Sep 2020 02:29

dkhare wrote: On the centerline pylon, there seems to be a fuel tank as well - rather slender for a fuel tank though - or is it another type of pod?

So, 3 external fuel tanks, 4 RF MICA AAMs, and 2 IR MICA AAMs. A loadout for extended CAP probably. Before the upgrade, they would also carry the Remora pod on the outer station further reducing missile loadout.

There is nothing on the center pylon. Just the quality of the image and light playing tricks.

kvraghav · Post by **kvraghav** » 22 Sep 2020 11:16

I think there is drop tank in the center pylon.

idan · Post by **idan** » 22 Sep 2020 11:21

There is one and it is casting shadow

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 22 Sep 2020 15:13

nachiket wrote:
dkhare wrote: On the centerline pylon, there seems to be a fuel tank as well - rather slender for a fuel tank though - or is it another type of pod?

So, 3 external fuel tanks, 4 RF MICA AAMs, and 2 IR MICA AAMs. A loadout for extended CAP probably. Before the upgrade, they would also carry the Remora pod on the outer station further reducing missile loadout.
There is nothing on the center pylon. Just the quality of the image and light playing tricks.

There is a centerline drop tank.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 25 Sep 2020 00:22

This, to me, still remains a classic, and one of the most beautiful aircraft built so far.

via: विनोद शर्मा @vinod_sharma

chandrabhan · Post by **chandrabhan** » 25 Sep 2020 08:54

chetak wrote:This, to me, still remains a classic, and one of the most beautiful aircraft built so far.

via: विनोद शर्मा @vinod_sharma

I always though MIG21 was merely piece of metal attached to an Engine - aerodynamically.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 25 Sep 2020 09:30

chandrabhan wrote:
chetak wrote:This, to me, still remains a classic, and one of the most beautiful aircraft built so far.

via: विनोद शर्मा @vinod_sharma
I always though MIG21 was merely piece of metal attached to an Engine - aerodynamically.

It's too bad that one does not take the trouble to follow history of the design and development of many such mere "pieces of metal attached to an engine".

By your understanding, this Rolls Royce Silver Ghost is also a mere piece of metal attached to an engine, which BTW, is a thought no one would share with you.

But then, each to his own.

Roop · Post by **Roop** » 25 Sep 2020 11:48

chetak wrote:This, to me, still remains a classic, and one of the most beautiful aircraft built so far.

Agreed. I think the original (i.e. pre-upgrade) Mig-21 single-seater was one of the most beautiful planes made.

Of course, aesthetics is a matter of personal choice -- what's beautiful to me may not be so to others, etc. That said, I think all 4 of these are remarkably beautiful planes (in chronological order of entry into service):

Mig-21 single-seater,
F-15A single-seater,
Rafale single-seater (if you can ignore that ugly refuelling probe permanently deployed),
Sukhoi Su-57 (the so-called PAK-FA).

P.S. IMO Naval Tejas is also a really good-looking plane. I would put it in Rank 5 in the above list.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 25 Sep 2020 16:19

IMO, the Mig 21 looks like a cigar with stubby wings and a tail+ rudder stuck on it. Not may favourite aesthetically.

Mig 29 takes the top spot for me, now ably rivalled by the Rafale.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 25 Sep 2020 20:01

guys,

Lets get back to normal programming.

this "piece of metal attached to an engine" is anyway off topic for this thread

my bad, that I got into it.

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 29 Sep 2020 08:01

An Expert Explains: IAF role in Eastern Ladakh.

Air Vice Marshal (retired) Manmohan Bahadur is an IAF veteran and currently Additional Director General, Centre for Air Power Studies, New Delhi. Commissioned in the IAF in 1976, he commanded the 114 Helicopter Unit at Leh and Air Force flying bases in Jammu and Guwahati. He was the first pilot to land on the Siachen Glacier in September 1978, six years before Operation Meghdoot was launched. He has been Head of Training at Defence Services Staff College. He served as Assistant Chief of Air Staff in charge of transport and helicopter operations and moved to HQ Integrated Defence Staff before his retirement in May 2011.

With a resolution to the standoff on the LAC still elusive, the Indian Army is preparing for extended deployment of troops in the region through the winter months. This leaves the IAF with a key role in providing support to the troops. What are the challenges to meet in the harsh winter and tough terrain?

Can the IAF support the logistics of such a large force?
One part of the logistics for the Army requires land transportation, which would have been planned for before winter sets in and the passes close. The IAF will be doing very urgent missions, for which it is well prepared with a very good transport fleet consisting of C-17 Globemasters, Il-76s, and many An-32s. If it comes to the crunch, the C-130 Super Hercules can also be used for logistics support, although these are meant for special operations. We also have Mi-17 helicopters and Cheetal light helicopters to cater to forward posts. In addition, the Chinook heavy-lift helicopters will be used for carrying bulky stores, either within the fuselage, or slung under it.

What are the topographical challenges of flying into Leh or other advanced landing grounds (ALGs) in Eastern Ladakh?
The biggest challenge is the altitude of the two airfields of Leh and Thoise, but since we have been flying there for decades, the air crew are well aware of the peculiarities of these fields.

The landing grounds at high altitude have their own challenges, which result in reduction of load-bearing capacity of the planes/choppers. Additionally, the air crew have to call upon their skills to navigate the hills and land on the small, matchbox-like helipads — there is just no place on these hills to make bigger ones!

What additional hazards will winter bring?
Bad weather that accompanies the western disturbances that strike northern India in the winter months is a challenge, as it reduces visibility and results in a low cloud base. So the crew have to be on the ball to make sure they can find a way to circumvent bad weather. This is not always possible, and we have long periods when flying has to be curtailed.

And what effect does extreme cold have on weight-carrying aircraft?
The lower the temperature, the better the payload because the higher air density increases the lift-carrying capability of flying machines. So the loads that can be carried during winter are higher than during summer.
This is a big advantage. For instance, an Il-76, which in summer can carry hardly any load from Leh, can fly out around 20 tonnes in the winter. It is the same with helicopters, whose load-carrying ability to extremely high helipads at altitudes of 17,000 to 20,000 feet increases substantially in winter. And it reduces drastically in summer.

Do the high altitude and topography pose a challenge to navigation and night flying?
The modern navigation equipment available now overcome most of the challenges. But mission accomplishment is not merely flying from place A to B. The aircraft has to land to complete a mission. That is where temperature and altitude plus weather become the final arbiters.
Navigation is not a problem, but take-offs and landings are tricky.
As for night flying, it has its own unique challenges because of the shadows cast by hills, as well as the state and position of the moon relative to the hills and the aircraft. A dark, moonless night poses its own challenges, and a full moon has its own. In the hills, air crew are specially cleared to carry out operations at night.

Do the airfields in Ladakh restrict operations to only certain aircraft or can all aircraft be used?
All air fields in the Ladakh area can be used by the transport aircraft we have, although weather requirements will vary from one aircraft to the other. It depends on the navigational aids on board the aircraft, and the competence of the crew. That is why air crews are detailed depending on the mission.

In a long haul, or in the eventuality of a kinetic war, the IAF will also have to transport back and forth mechanised weapons etc for repair, maintenance, etc. Can our aircraft profile cater to it?
Bringing back loads from the forward air fields is not a problem. However, that has to be prioritised vis-à-vis personnel, casualties, and vital equipment such as avionics.

What kind of logistics support in terms of fuel, repair, etc does the IAF require for such an operation?
All the air fields have enough stock of fuel, oil, and lubricants (FOL) for which detailed planning is done around the clock. There is a well-oiled logistics chain that has been fine-tuned by the IAF in the last six-seven decades of operation. The Army Service Corps (ASC) also plays an important part in ground positioning of fuel in forward posts. It places aviation turbine fuel in barrels in advanced fields, while Leh and Thoise have got fuel bowsers.

What is the threat to aircraft when the ground forces are eyeball to eyeball?
The airfields of Leh and Thoise that support fixed wing operations (helicopters are rotary wing aircraft) are relatively in the interiors, hence not vulnerable to any ground action. They can of course be attacked by the Air Force and other aerial assets of the adversary, but there are standard operating protocols in place to deal with such threats.
However, in ALGs such as Daulat Beg Oldie (DBO), where choppers fly close to the LAC, the air crew are well adept at taking tactical action to meet any threat from ground fire or shoulder-fired missiles. In this, the aids on board the helicopters also play an important role.

Are there any special challenges for fighter aircraft?
Fighters flying in those altitudes have special challenges of their own because of their high speeds, reduced air density, the closeness of the hill tops, and the fact that targets are very small comprising bunkers having limited numbers of troops.
Hitting those targets requires special weapons and air crew capability. Luckily, we have experienced this during Kargil, and I am sure the lessons would have been passed on to the present band of fighter pilots.

Where does Rafale fit in?
The Rafale comes with its unique flying characteristics and weapons delivery payload, but one must remember that present-day combat is between systems, and not generally between one aircraft and the other.
The Rafale would have been dovetailed into the air campaign plan made by the IAF to operate with other systems like Airborne Warning And Control System (AWACS) and electronic warfare (EW) assets. In the present day, an individual weapon system is only as good as the overall war fighting architecture that the force designs.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 29 Sep 2020 18:33

https://twitter.com/ReviewVayu/status/1 ... 2099881984

Deputy Chief of the Air Staff:

Depleting fighter squadron strength is a matter of concern & being addressed by 36 Rafales, to be followed by 83 LCA Mk.1As, other LCA variants, AMCA

Induction of additional Dornier 228s, C-130s and C-17s have enhanced IAF transport fleet

1/3

https://twitter.com/ReviewVayu/status/1 ... 6298572800

2/3

The AWACS-India project is progressing but financial crunch had delayed acquisition of more FRAs, some could be taken on dry-lease. More Netra AEW&C aircraft will be obtained

MALE UAVs: IAF is lead Service for 127 of these while there is also requirement for HALEs

https://twitter.com/ReviewVayu/status/1 ... 3314935809

3/3

PGMs, unguided bombs, 125kg precision bombs, other smart weapons incl glide bombs are to be dev/manufactured in India

BEL are working on range of ground based radar for low level long range tasks while more Akash SAMS are ordered & VSHORDs to be inducted for both IAF & Army

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 04 Oct 2020 20:42

the amerikis seem to have quite blatantly started to badger India on the need to place orders for the F-21, a poorly rebadged and heaviy lipsticked version of the venerable and end of life F-16 with no further possibilites of any sort of growth or even some halfway meaningful mid life updates.

they are implying that such orders placed by India for about 100+ numbers now would pave the way for the eventual sales of the F-35 to India.

and, what ever happened to the "sanctioned" S-400 systems that India will soon be taking delivery of, don't they matter anymore and suddenly and miraculously the F-35 offer is back on the table again and the S-400 purchase notwithstanding

haven't they heard about eggs and (one) basket, all the attendant risks therein and the extreme fallacy of India trusting a fickle government like the amerikis with their unpredictable penchant for imposing crippling sanctions that can easily be triggered by some nutcase bunch of senators whose religiously itching piles, may one day soon, start troubling them, democratically speaking, of course.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 04 Oct 2020 23:04

Are the Suryakirans carrying a Gun pod in the centerline?

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 04 Oct 2020 23:31

Khan are offering us the F-21 because that is exactly have we have asked for, unfortunately nobody in power seems to have realised the folly of not asking the the latest tech available i,e, F-35, instead of protracting the MMRCA X circus.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 04 Oct 2020 23:39

abhik wrote:Khan are offering us the F-21 because that is exactly have we have asked for, unfortunately nobody in power seems to have realised the folly of not asking the the latest tech available i,e, F-35, instead of protracting the MMRCA X circus.

Lockheed Martin cannot unilaterally offer the F-35 for sale. They haven't yet asked, or been permitted, to offer the platform as a DCS. It is believed that the broad export clearence for the platform, granted to expedite international partnerships and expand the program, basically limits LM's ability to offer a bespoke DCS like they can with other products in their portfolio. They haven't even, yet, unilaterally negotiated a PBL for the system (outside of the DSCA framework). They also have very limited ability to offer industrial partnerships given how new the system is and how they've locked in other US and international industrial partners for component supply over the first few full rate production lots. Therefore any F-35 deal would involve a direct government to government exchange (official request and FMS use case) which is a political non-starter, in the near to medium, term due to the S-400 sale.

asbchakri · Post by **asbchakri** » 05 Oct 2020 00:19

I do not think there is a need, and I do not think the MoD will, to go for F-21 with orders placed for LCA. As for F-35, for now, we do not have the $$. As for MMRCA, I do not think there is a need for it anymore, maybe another follow on order of Raflale and be done with it. Focus more on LCA and its variants.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 05 Oct 2020 01:37

People forget that in the early 2010's IAF had grand plans for acquiring 250 (then reduced to 144) 5th gen stealth fighters, i.e. the FGFA, with deliver expected from 2020 time frame. But along the way we found out that the Russians don't really have the tech along with unattractive industrial terms, basically our 5th gen/stealth plans have gone down the drain at least till ~2035 (which is when AMCA is expected to be inducted).
Now are we saying that the IAF does not feel the need to have any 5th gen/stealth for the next decade and a half (while 10 years ago it was very interested in one), or are we trying to make a virtue of necessity?

Added: BTW when the 3rd to 4th generation mainstream transition was happening in from late 1970 to early 1980, we managed to keep up by acquiring M2K and Mig-29 in by the mid 80's. Now we might be 20 years late on 4th to 5th gen transition because our trusted partners (France/Russia) have fallen behind and we are not able to build the diplomatic relationship needed to get it from the only source left i.e. US.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 05 Oct 2020 04:25

If the US is going to stick to its anti- Ru weaponry policy with India, then one can forget about any US fighter sale to us. We are- thanks to circumstances so heavily dependent upon Ru arms and tech.,the Russians willing to provide to us tech. that the west won't give us like N-sub tech, missiles like BMos. and their best aircraft and naval tech. All that's being offered from the "States" are the F-16/21 and F-18,both at the fag end of their design-development potential , and it would be adding yet another type to the IAF's aviary. It would be far easier on the pocket for the IAF to acquire " more of the same", types in service,which I've been saying for over a decade now,which the cash-strapped GOI has finally seen the light of day with its buy of 12 extra MKIs and 21 MIG-29s. There was also some reports of acquiring a number of ex- French Jags for spares.

For the immediate future, upgrading the MKIs in batches to an SS std.,integrating BMos,both ASM and AAM variants in particular would expand the capability bubble. Squeezing HAL's ghoolies to increase LCA production at the lower end of the spectrum is essential to maintain existing numbers set for a sharp fall when legacy MIG-21s retire.Extra Rafales are a better option than a new type,having been chosen along with the Typhoon as the best of the lot of MMRCA contenders,still in the game for round 2,with the addition of the SU-35 and F-15 E to the pack.

=== <admin> russian ware marketing garbage deleted </admin> ===

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 05 Oct 2020 04:29

Philip wrote:
If the need for a stealth bird is felt in this decade,it is more likely that a limited number of SU-57 s are bought outright than the F-35 for the reasons mentioned ( political).Why we should pursue the AMCA with greater vigour and earlier induction,say around 2030

No one has been able to yet field a 5GFA in under 14-15 years of systems development effort. This despite having tech demonstrators and prototypes. Not the US, not Russia and probably not China (and who knows what quality they have) either. So those upgraded LCA's, MWF's and twin engined naval 4+ gen fighters are all good interim steps as the 15-20 year 5GFA journey is pursued. You can accelerate what you've matured and mastered already. It is very difficult to accelerate things that need to be invented (like stealth, materials, and a whole host of technologies associated with the AMCA).

m_saini · Post by **m_saini** » 05 Oct 2020 04:36

Philip wrote:Why we should pursue the AMCA with greater vigour and earlier induction,say around 2030, instead of reinventing the 4th-gen wheel with the LCA Mk-2 when we already have Rafales,MIG-29/35s as options.

We should pursue a 6th gen fighter with greater vigour and induction around 2040, instead of reinventing the 5-th gen wheel with the AMCA when we already have Su-57E as options.

Apologies for the sarcasm but we haven't even fully invented the 4-th gen wheel at all so where does the question of re-inventing comes in?

Raveen · Post by **Raveen** » 05 Oct 2020 05:16

m_saini wrote:
Philip wrote:Why we should pursue the AMCA with greater vigour and earlier induction,say around 2030, instead of reinventing the 4th-gen wheel with the LCA Mk-2 when we already have Rafales,MIG-29/35s as options.
We should pursue a 6th gen fighter with greater vigour and induction around 2040, instead of reinventing the 5-th gen wheel with the AMCA when we already have Su-57E as options.

Apologies for the sarcasm but we haven't even fully invented the 4-th gen wheel at all so where does the question of re-inventing comes in?

In continuation, why invent the wheel at all, just import it...maybe from Russia

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 05 Oct 2020 05:36

Philip wrote:Why we should pursue the AMCA with greater vigour and earlier induction,say around 2030, instead of reinventing the 4th-gen wheel with the LCA Mk-2 when we already have Rafales,MIG-29/35s as options. Increased numbers of LCA Mk-1As,Bs,whatever would be a simpler task than developing the twin-engined MK-2 when we haven't got the engine sorted out thus far.

The LCA Mk-2/MWF is single-engined not twin-engined (you are getting confused with the TEDBF for the Navy), and the engine for it was sorted out a long time ago.

The M2k's, Mig-29's and Jaguars which we inducted back in the 80's will have to be slowly phased out in the coming years and we need an affordable indigenous fighter which can replace all three. Only the Tejas Mk2/MWF fits the bill for that. The Tejas Mk1 does not have the same payload/range performance as an M2k (it was never meant to), so many Rafales would be too expensive to buy and operate and the AMCA will not be ready soon enough and will have to itself start replacing the oldest Su-30's from the early-2000's timeframe when it is available hopefully from 2035 onwards.

The success of the MWF is absolutely essential. Otherwise one of two things will happen. Either we will have to break the bank and buy large numbers of expensive 4th gen foreign jets or we will fail to do that (just like with the MMRCA) and end up with yet another severe numbers crunch 10 years down the line.

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 05 Oct 2020 05:59

sudeepj wrote:
One thing to consider is that R73's can be launched at a very high off-boresight angle. Even as high as 90 degrees. The same is likely not true for the R77 because the beam angle of the Kopyo in the Mig21 nosecone is likely not as wide.

An IR lock is much harder to break and jam, especially if you are a high altitude and have the sun behind you; blue skies and no other heat source!. In Abhinandan's case the firing position was not a tail shot; that meant that flares which are typically positioned to deter tail-chase would not be effective either. IR missiles are also stealthy and passive; the targeted aircraft can not sense their presence by emissions and may not take evasive action.

A radar guided missile is a much more complex system and can be jammed/evaded; the targeting radar lock gives an advance warning leading to evasive action.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 05 Oct 2020 06:10

If the RoE's about firing BVR missiles across the border applied to the Su-30's they would have applied to Abhinandan too. They would not apply in the case of WVR combat using CCM's. And he was the only one who got that close.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 05 Oct 2020 07:27

=== pointless whine deleted by admin===

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 05 Oct 2020 11:26

Looks like work on integrating the Astra on the MiG-29UPG is on.

From Grp Cpt HVT's Twitter

Fulcrum+Astra
IAF+IN
A crushing combo

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 05 Oct 2020 12:15

Where is the Astra missile in the photo- the aircraft looks like in clean config.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 05 Oct 2020 13:45

Do IN and IAF Mig-29s have the same radar/mission computer, making the integration of Astra applicable across both variants?

V_Raman · Post by **V_Raman** » 05 Oct 2020 13:48

It is the new super Mig 29 - can catch an Astra fired from ground and relaunch it mid air for improved stealth!!

sajaym · Post by **sajaym** » 05 Oct 2020 14:30

Kakarat wrote:Are the Suryakirans carrying a Gun pod in the centerline?

When was this photo taken?? If recently, it shows that the Hawks have already been kitted up for war. I guess we have to expect that all the IAF Hawks have this set up now, till war clouds recede.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 05 Oct 2020 19:39

Aditya_V wrote:Where is the Astra missile in the photo- the aircraft looks like in clean config.

The Astra missile uses Vympel P-72-1D rail launcher that is also used for R-73E missile

The MiG-29K/KUB/UPG has 8 hardpoints. The R-73E is typically carried on the outer hardpoint

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Gall ... 0.JPG.html

Off Topic - in this photo, on the rightmost outer hardpoint there is an Elta 8222 jammer pod.

The photo posted by HVT has four Vympel P-72-1D rail launchers on the mid wing pylons. While they may be for R-73E, its a tantalizing pointer that that mid wing rail launchers will carry Astra and the aircraft is being tested for that purpose.

Off Topic - Did anyone notice the engine inlets closed to prevent FOD ingestion during takeoff? The MiG-29 uses LERX louvers for air intake in that configuration.

BDL also manufactures the Vympel rail launcher under license.

V_Raman wrote:It is the new super Mig 29 - can catch an Astra fired from ground and relaunch it mid air for improved stealth!!

Can we please avoid silly comments in a serious discussion?

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 05 Oct 2020 19:49

Kakarat wrote:Are the Suryakirans carrying a Gun pod in the centerline?

Best to check with Vishal J & Angad Singh since they work closely with SKAT team.

Unlikely a gun pod will be painted red or an overall colourful aircraft will go to war

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 05 Oct 2020 21:27

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/131 ... 97664?s=20 --->

"If China needs Pakistan's help in any confrontation, then I have nothing to say."
~ IAF Chief, ACM RKS Bhadauria

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 05 Oct 2020 21:39

https://twitter.com/singhshwetabh71/sta ... 01377?s=20 ----> Wondered how big are the longbow on Apaches?