2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 05 Oct 2020 00:02

Werent there always questions on USCIS forms asking if you were ever a member of the communist party or any other political entity ? Maybe it is more formalized now given the China menace but USCIS always had those questions from what i recall.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 05 Oct 2020 00:15

chetak wrote:this will soon be used to target the BJP and RSS + affliates too but we will foolishly continue to welcome society disrupting proselytizers.

Communist Party Members From Any Foreign Country Will Be Ineligible To Immigrate To US: Trump Administration https://swarajyamag.com/insta/communist ... nistration via @swarajyamag

The United States Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) has issued policy guidance under which members of the Communist party from any foreign state will be ineligible to immigrate to the US.

In a policy alert on Friday (2 October), the USCIS said it was issuing policy guidance in the USCIS Policy Manual to address inadmissibility based on membership in or affiliation with the Communist or any other totalitarian party.

The guidance cover Communist Party from "any foreign state, or of any political or geographical subdivision of any foreign state."

The inadmissibility ground for membership in or affiliation with the Communist or any other totalitarian party is part of a broader set of laws passed by Congress to address threats to the safety and security of the United States, the USCIS said.

"In general, unless otherwise exempt, any immigrant who is or has been a member of or affiliated with the Communist or any other totalitarian party (or subdivision or affiliate), domestic or foreign, is inadmissible to the United States," it added.

The guidance includes an exemption for involuntary membership, such as when someone joins the Party for "employment, food rations, or other essentials of living."

It should be noted that the exclusion of Communist Party members has been part of US law since the Immigration and Nationality Act 1952. However, the new guidance updates the policy implementation of the exclusion.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 05 Oct 2020 01:26

chetak wrote:this will soon be used to target the BJP and RSS + affliates too but we will foolishly continue to welcome society disrupting proselytizers.

Anything can be accomplished if it is in US interests. Recall, how us Hindus were humiliated under Queen Madam in the way US treated ModiJi.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 05 Oct 2020 01:30

chetak wrote:poor little commie darling, so bravely commenting while sitting safely in foreign lands and this creep may even be an ameriki citizen as his wife is a whitey.

and this sorry mutt of a house negro is complaining about getting kicked in the b@!!$ by outraged Indians

Sadanand Dhume @dhume · 8h

Eight years ago, India was still a normal democracy. You could criticize the government and ruling party for its response to a tragic rape-cum-murder without a professional troll army descending on your timeline with a mile long list of whataboutisms.
https://wsj.com/articles/SB100014241278 ... 1110846660

So, for Sadanand Dhume, “democracy” is normal if he could say anything he wants and the unwashed masses obediently keep their mouths shut.

This, and the fact that he is utterly unaware that what he is pining for is the exact opposite of democracy, sums up the crux of the crisis with better clarity than anyone here can muster.

What he is calling “whataboutery” is just the masses demanding some degree of integrity and accountability from their self-appointed betters.

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 05 Oct 2020 01:38

BJP has read too many gandhi stories compared to Gita.

West Bengal: BJP leader Manish Shukla shot dead in front of police station, governor summons ACS (Home) and DGP due to worsening law & order situation
https://www.opindia.com/2020/10/west-be ... e-station/

‘Bombs hurled, women karyakartas molested’: BJP pro-farm Bills rally attacked by TMC goons in West Bengal, Dilip Ghosh alleges political terrorism
https://www.opindia.com/2020/10/tmc-att ... st-bengal/

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 05 Oct 2020 02:54

dr sudhir gupta of aiims undermining ssr case by doing media rounds even before aiims submits final report

sudarshan · Post by **sudarshan** » 05 Oct 2020 03:11

pankajs wrote:https://twitter.com/amitmalviya/status/ ... 9471904769
Rajasthan under Ashok Gehlot has earned the dubious distinction of being the most unsafe state for women with 15.9 rapes per lakh, one of the highest in the country. Similarly Delhi and Jaipur are most unsafe cities.

But where are Rahul and Priyanka politicking? UP, off course!

Just for comparison (same per 100,000 stats):

https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... by-country

USA------------------27.3
France---------------16.2
UK--------------------Unreported

Sweden--------------63.5
Australia-------------28.6
S. Africa--------------132.4
India (according to the above site)--1.8

Before somebody starts on "very few rapes are reported in India" - the same is the case in many of the above countries. In the UK, apparently nobody reports rape

.

Only posting this, to highlight the nonsensical calls for dismissal of the Yogi govt. - go to the Indo-UK thread, it seems some UK lawmakers have ganged up with feminists and taken it upon themselves to write to the UN to dismiss the Yogi govt.

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 05 Oct 2020 07:31

Interview published in local English tabloid a fiction, I never had this conversation: CR Patil
https://www.deshgujarat.com/2020/10/04/ ... -cr-patil/
...
Terming the article as fictitious, Patil tweeted: Such are the times we live in that now newspapers are giving fiction writers a run for their money. Surprised to see my interview published in Ahmedabad Mirror as a free-wheeling chat. Only issue: I never had this conversation

The interview was published across two pages including cover page as exclusive freewheeling chat in Times of India group’s tabloid brand on 3rd October.
...

greatde · Post by **greatde** » 05 Oct 2020 09:59

^It should be a fundamental requirement that all key BJP have their own cameras, and recording whenever they do interviews.

In past, Modi, Fadnavis benefited from it, else media were twisting and editing their words.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 05 Oct 2020 12:02

https://twitter.com/SwarajyaMag/status/ ... 5783865346

The LJP had already made it clear that it was not willing to contest elections under Nitish Kumar.

https://twitter.com/ForeignAffairs/stat ... 3831044096

“To truly get the novel coronavirus under control, the United States must do what it has not done so far: impose real and stringent lockdowns across the country for roughly two months.”

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 05 Oct 2020 12:34

sudarshan wrote:
Just for comparison (same per 100,000 stats):

https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... by-country

USA------------------27.3
France---------------16.2
UK--------------------Unreported
Sweden--------------63.5
Australia-------------28.6
S. Africa--------------132.4
India (according to the above site)--1.8

Before somebody starts on "very few rapes are reported in India" - the same is the case in many of the above countries. In the UK, apparently nobody reports rape .

Only posting this, to highlight the nonsensical calls for dismissal of the Yogi govt. - go to the Indo-UK thread, it seems some UK lawmakers have ganged up with feminists and taken it upon themselves to write to the UN to dismiss the Yogi govt.

I had written this earlier this year in the UK thread,

"Paging Mrs Udwin, paging Mrs Udwin......

To help the BBC learn what rape statistics look like in the UK.

https://www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk ... mber-2019/

In the year ending March 2019 alone there were 58,657 allegations of rape, but there were only 1,925 successful prosecutions.

ie 160 rapes per day in the UK, "allegedly" and only 5 daily convictions from a nation that wants to make movies in India about rape!"

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 05 Oct 2020 13:09

the soviets did nothing that was so very different from what the anti India BIF and fundamentalist based media manipulators are doing today.

the soviets were a lot cruder in their efforts as compared to the slick and savvy efforts by the BIF which, BTW, has a lot more fundamentalist and leftshyte collaborators today than the soviets managed to muster back in the day.

Declassified CIA document from 2011 reveals the depth of Soviet penetration in Indian media

Declassified CIA document from 2011 reveals the depth of Soviet penetration in Indian media

CIA declassified a document titled ‘The Soviets in India: Moscow’s Major Penetration Program’ in 2011, two decades after the fall of USSR; which revealed the depth of KGB infiltration in India’s media circles.

5 October, 2020
Nivan Sadh

CIA Soviet Russia Indian media infiltration

The success of Vivek Agnihotri-directed movie ‘Tashkent Files’ has aroused the interest of Indian youth in the field of espionage during the cold war between USSR and USA. The second world war led to the dismantling of the British empire, and almost all countries were split between two ideologies- Communism and Capitalism; each backed by the Soviets and Americans respectively. India, in particular, was seen as the playground for International espionage between the espionage agencies of the two superpowers- KGB and CIA.

The Mitrokhin Archives, which contains information about Soviet misadventures in India that got leaked by former KGB spy Vasili Mitrokhin on his defection to the United Kingdom, showed the dirty history of the Congress party and how they almost sold the country to Soviets for financial incentives. The archives particularly spoke about the way Soviets had infiltrated into the politics of the country, but didn’t go much into detail about public misinformation campaigns of the KGB to swing Indian public opinion in its favour.

However, the CIA declassified a document titled ‘The Soviets in India: Moscow’s Major Penetration Program’ in 2011, two decades after the fall of USSR; which revealed the depth of KGB infiltration in India’s media circles.

According to the document, the Soviets operated the media penetration program from the press section of its embassy in New Delhi, where they infiltrated deep into journalist circles by offering financial incentives to them. Initially, the Soviets banked on CPI-owned magazines and mouthpieces to spread Communist beliefs to the public, but then decided to scale up their operations by moving onto larger news outlets.

In 1984, the Soviets engineered its affiliation with the left-leaning Indian Federation of Working Journalists (IFWJ) through its political connections and began to ‘lobby’ with (or more appropriately, ‘prey on’) journalists from top media houses. The Soviets created a network of journalists and media houses that already were influenced by Leftism to peddle Communist propaganda in Indian media. The CIA document further alleges that these networks and propaganda campaigns were planned by the CPSU’s central committee and Novosti (a USSR press agency), though carried out by the KGB and Soviet Embassy press department.

To sway Indian public opinion in favour of nuclear disarmament in January 1985, the Soviets used the CPI and WPC to engineer the participation of pro-communist scientists and academicians from top universities in passing a resolution favouring nuclear disarmament at the Indian Science Conference in Lucknow. The resolutions passed in the conference were used as a source by media houses under Soviet payroll like The Blitz.

The declassified document alleges that almost 3,000 propaganda articles were planted in leading English dailies such as Hindustan Times and Times of India to flare up anti-USA sentiments in India, the details of the articles as mentioned in the document are-

Hindustan Times:

12 May 1984- “There is existence of Khalistan terrorist training camps in Canada, with support from Western governments of USA, UK and Canada.”

August 1984- “Sikh Separatist leaders Ganga Singh Dhillon and Jagjit Singh Chauhan on the payroll of US Defense Intelligence Agency (USDIA).”

Times of India:

14 September 1984- “Pakistan is CIA base for recruiting guerillas.”

The Hindu, Madras edition:

November 1984- “CIA has set up centers in Pakistan for subverting the Afghanistan and Indian governments.”

Shortly after Indira Gandhi’s assassination on 31st October 1984, the Soviets began their propaganda campaign, with Radio Moscow declaring that the Khalistani assassins got their “ideological inspiration” from the CIA, and accused the Americans of assassinating Third World leaders who didn’t succumb to capitalism. Soon after, various Indian news agencies joined the chorus, including The Patriot, The Daily, Hindustan Times, National Herald and the CPI-owned Hindi newspaper ‘Janayug’.

The Press Trust of India (PTI) was also a major part of the campaign, with the document alleging that several managers of the news service agency were on the payroll of the Soviets. The Soviets used the PTI to plant articles that were molded in a way to promote communism in Indian newspapers; the CIA document says that a car with a Soviet diplomatic license plate was regularly seen at the PTI headquarters, and was jokingly referred to as ‘Press TASS’ by Soviet officials.

The objective of USSR’s propaganda campaigns were to arouse Leftist feelings in the public, but failed to gain much traction due to the mindset not favouring such ideologies. However, despite failing to achieve its objective, the USSR unknowingly exposed the greed of Indian journalists and media houses of that time, who agreed to sell their dignity and national integrity to the Soviets despite knowing about the consequences of their actions.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 05 Oct 2020 20:54

if anyone still doubts that bunty and babli are card carrying members of the BIF brigade, and are mere foreigners out to savage this country, they should pay heed to the cabal of the internationally funded and conspiring dalit "support" networks all geared up to bring down India by exploiting any and all opportunities including willfully creating and inciting violent incidents to divide the Hindu samaj.

the BIF have just moved to the next level of aggression because they are now afraid of Modi's rapid and continuously swelling national support and his growing international following because of his resolute standing up to xi's duplicitous attack on the Indian borders.

the new FCRA laws seem to have cut off the financial legs of many FFNGOs, by using the very measures that most western countries use to bury scum like amnesty and green peace and at the same time deeply infuriating them by devastating the implementation of many of their on going plans

‘Justice for Hathras victim’ website created overnight to instigate caste-based violence in Uttar Pradesh pulled down says intelligence report, FIR filed

‘Justice for Hathras victim’ website created overnight to instigate caste-based violence in Uttar Pradesh pulled down says intelligence report, FIR filed

Hours after the probe was initiated, the website was shut down suddenly. The Carrd website was created as a free one-page landing website on the host, carrd.co.

The website became popular in America during the Black Lives Matter protests earlier this year.

5 October, 2020
OpIndia Staff

Justice for Hathras website created overnight pulled down after the website was found hosting misleading, inflammatory content

Intelligence agencies have uncovered a global conspiracy to instigate riots in different parts of the country, especially Uttar Pradesh, which is currently roiling with the Hathras incident, and discredit PM Modi and UP chief minister Yogi Adityanath. The agencies found out that under the pretext of carrying out protest against the Hathras incident, a website–”Justice for Hathras” was created overnight, with the sole aim of throwing Uttar Pradesh into chaos by inciting ethnic riots.

‘Justice for Hathras’ website springs up overnight

A day after the Hathras victim breathed her last, a website called ‘Justice for Hathras’ was created and thousands of people were linked to the website through fake IDs. According to the probe, the website had received funding from Amnesty International, Fundamentalist organisations based out of Islamic Countries. The objective of the website was to create a wedge between the majority community in the country and undermine the Yogi and Modi government in Uttar Pradesh and India respectively. Objectionable content pertaining to inciting riots and safeguarding oneself during the riots was found on the website.

The website came under the government scanner for its misleading, inflammatory and objectionable content. The website was subsequently pulled down after the raids conducted on Sunday night. The investigation agencies also discovered that PFI and SDPI had assisted in preparing the website. Incriminating content such as fake videos, photoshopped images, doctored visuals was uploaded on the website to provoke riots and unrest in the country.

Objectionable content on the website aimed at dividing the majority community

The content uploaded on the website included a detailed manual of the do’s and don’ts that the protesters should abide by during the riots. It also includes details of how to instigate riots and escape accountability. The manual touched upon several aspects, instructing rioters about the safety during a protest, what they should wear, what to bring with them to the protests, how to evade teargas and identification from the police and measures to be taken if they get arrested or detained by the law enforcement officials.

Details of Do’s and Don’ts uploaded on the ‘Justice for Hathras’ website

The website instructed the protesters the ways to create chaos and enlisted strategies to target the police and administrative officials under the pretext of carrying out protests. Use of mask was suggested, not out of respect for the coronavirus guidelines but to avoid identification and detection. Tricks such as dividing the majority and sowing the seeds of distrust and discord were suggested on the website. The website also hosted the script of inflammatory speech that could be used to stoke passion among the protesters during the riots.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 05 Oct 2020 21:57

Dr. Jishad Kumar Murali@DrJK_Murali

HINDUS HAPPY NEWS! Yeddyurappa govt in Karnataka REMOVED 18 CROSSES planted unlawfully on the Chikkaballapur hill by the Kerala based St. Joseph church mafia! They occupied 173 acres!!! KUDOS
@BSYBJP ji and team.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 05 Oct 2020 21:59

even sending this guy to kindergarten was a colossal waste

after wantonly setting communal fires in UP, pappu is now hell bent on setting social fires in punjab

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 05 Oct 2020 22:28

I was looking at recent photograph of Amit Shah (taken either today or yesterday) and he does not look well. The last 12 - 15 months have been very unfortunate with a string of orchestrated events where the govt is tied down just trying to duck from the incoming missiles. I hate to say this but what options does Modi have for a HM if Amit Shah decides to take a break from active politics ? Having lost Gopinath Munde, Parrikar, Arun Jaitley, Sushma Swaraj already there's lack of quality in the bench. Long term need someone who is not only willing to take chances but is also a strong administrator and a savvy politician.

The BIF have sensed multiple vulnerabilities in the governments armor and they will continue to poke. The instigation of caste violence using the Hathras rape as excuse is just one of the many fronts INC and its BIF friends have opened and there will be more such fronts in every state governed by BJP. None of this should be surprise to Modi or BJP, the nation's enemies are just using the levers they've carefully built over decades but its the lack of counter to these tactics which is worrying. Once schools and colleges reopen, JNU, DU, AMU, Jamia etc. will once again begin riots and agitation using some excuse. Last Aug when JNU nearly shut Delhi down for weeks using hostel fees hike as an excuse , its leaders should have been taken to task but because the govt did not act then JNU along with other islamo-leftist colleges spearheaded the anti-CAA riots. BIF will continue to exploit the faultlines using students, women groups, labor unions, farmers and castes, i sincerely hope Amit Shah fully recovers, and Modiji goes back to his v.1.0 avatar to take on the multi-headed hydra which is threatening the union.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 05 Oct 2020 22:44

Ambar, can you post the pic? I thought he was discharged 2nd time around from AIMS and back a work? Absolutely, him not in full throttle will be a bid drawback for BJP and Bharat.

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 05 Oct 2020 22:49

Never had much luck posting images but here it goes.

It was posted by Devendra Fadnavis himself this morning.

https://twitter.com/Dev_Fadnavis/status ... 1315192833

Ofcourse, the lack of masks in the picture is quite concerning by itself.

Raveen · Post by **Raveen** » 05 Oct 2020 22:51

Ambar wrote:I was looking at recent photograph of Amit Shah (taken either today or yesterday) and he does not look well. The last 12 - 15 months have been very unfortunate with a string of orchestrated events where the govt is tied down just trying to duck from the incoming missiles. I hate to say this but what options does Modi have for a HM if Amit Shah decides to take a break from active politics ? Having lost Gopinath Munde, Parrikar, Arun Jaitley, Sushma Swaraj already there's lack of quality in the bench. Long term need someone who is not only willing to take chances but is also a strong administrator and a savvy politician.

The BIF have sensed multiple vulnerabilities in the governments armor and they will continue to poke. The instigation of caste violence using the Hathras rape as excuse is just one of the many fronts INC and its BIF friends have opened and there will be more such fronts in every state governed by BJP. None of this should be surprise to Modi or BJP, the nation's enemies are just using the levers they've carefully built over decades but its the lack of counter to these tactics which is worrying. Once schools and colleges reopen, JNU, DU, AMU, Jamia etc. will once again begin riots and agitation using some excuse. Last Aug when JNU nearly shut Delhi down for weeks using hostel fees hike as an excuse , its leaders should have been taken to task but because the govt did not act then JNU along with other islamo-leftist colleges spearheaded the anti-CAA riots. BIF will continue to exploit the faultlines using students, women groups, labor unions, farmers and castes, i sincerely hope Amit Shah fully recovers, and Modiji goes back to his v.1.0 avatar to take on the multi-headed hydra which is threatening the union.

Looks absolutely fine to me:

https://twitter.com/AmitShah/status/131 ... 44/photo/1

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 05 Oct 2020 23:38

Ambar, agree. This cavalier approach to masks must be eschewed. Even Trump bahadur learnt it the hard way. Nowadays even if I go into a store for a few mins to pick up a beer or bottle of wine, I will wear mask, gloves, and use hand sanitizer as soon as I get back into my car. And of course wash my hands when I reach home. And my wife is so paranoid that she won't let me even touch door handles when I get back from outside until I wash my hands

. At the same time, since this is a deadly but invisible virus, you can get hit despite all the precautions if you are unlucky and encounter the damn the thing.

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 05 Oct 2020 23:41

Raveen wrote: Looks absolutely fine to me:

https://twitter.com/AmitShah/status/131 ... 44/photo/1

With the mask on and the picture taken from the side he looks normal, but in the above pic with Fadnavis he looks weak, dropped shoulders, deepened eyes, weight loss and a man who looks really tired and not fully recovered from a serious illness.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 05 Oct 2020 23:55

Gadhkari have not been seen for few days now , He tested positive for Covid19 .

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 06 Oct 2020 00:29

When does one stop associating this CM with patriotic classifier like Captain? Which boundary does he need to cross?

Punjab CM Capt Amarinder Singh wants Rahul Gandhi to become PM to scrap newly passed farm laws, gets trolled
https://www.opindia.com/2020/10/capt-am ... s-trolled/

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 06 Oct 2020 00:38

Before this it was famous Delhi HC.

Chhattisgarh HC provides interim protection from arrest to Alt News co-founder Mohammed Zubair in FIR against him for harassing a girl child
https://www.opindia.com/2020/10/chhatti ... irl-child/
...
For those unaware, the National Commission for Protection of Child Rights had initiated action against the Alt-News founder after it received complaints that Zubair had targetted a minor girl in his Twitter fight with this social media user Jagdish Singh. Instead of replying to the user directly, Zubair had brazenly referred to a minor girl seen in the profile picture of the user Jagdish Singh, presumably his granddaughter.

After Zubair had highlighted the minor girl seen in the photo, Islamists had started to issue rape threats to the girl. Zubair’s tweet came under heavy criticism from social media users who accused him of shamelessly using a child to get back at a critic.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 06 Oct 2020 01:26

darshan wrote:When does one stop associating this CM with patriotic classifier like Captain? Which boundary does he need to cross?
Punjab CM Capt Amarinder Singh wants Rahul Gandhi to become PM to scrap newly passed farm laws, gets trolled
https://www.opindia.com/2020/10/capt-am ... s-trolled/

Drama because he know Rafool is never going to become PM.

Mean-e-while, after having passed the buck for doing anything on to Rafool and doing some drama he will be back to his usual programming.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 06 Oct 2020 01:29

https://twitter.com/AmanKayamHai_ET/sta ... 6606112768

Breaking: UP Police registers a case on serious charges regarding an "conspiracy" in the Hathras case to cause caste-based and communal riots, defame Yogi Govt, misleading the victim's family, spreading rumours and putting provocative, false and insensitive posts on social media

If Yogi truly goes after the fake news spreader truly a lot of filth including jurnos can be netted but my guess is that the case is just a shot across the brow.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 06 Oct 2020 01:33

I hope BJP unleashes the likes of some loud mouth and counterattack this loud mouth Mahua Moutra. I don't understand what was so 'sick' and 'pervert' like in what BJP MP Surendra Singh said. All he said was that parents should raise their children with the right values and that will go a long way towards prevention of rape and other sick behavior. To this, this Lutyen bim** unleashed a barrage of invective against Singh. And that too, on a day when a BJP stalwart in WB was shot dead. These BIF b@stards are so brazen in their attacks against BJP. Its time BJP takes their kid gloves off in responding to Bim*** like her

https://news.rediff.com/commentary/2020 ... d468a20741

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 06 Oct 2020 02:19

CRamS wrote:I hope BJP unleashes the likes of some loud mouth and counterattack this loud mouth Mahua Moutra. I don't understand what was so 'sick' and 'pervert' like in what BJP MP Surendra Singh said. All he said was that parents should raise their children with the right values and that will go a long way towards prevention of rape and other sick behavior. To this, this Lutyen bim** unleashed a barrage of invective against Singh. And that too, on a day when a BJP stalwart in WB was shot dead. These BIF b@stards are so brazen in their attacks against BJP. Its time BJP takes their kid gloves off in responding to Bim*** like her

https://news.rediff.com/commentary/2020 ... d468a20741

I think the issue is that he said *daughters* should be raised properly so as to avoid getting raped. I don't see any way of condoning or excusing such a statement.

ManSingh · Post by **ManSingh** » 06 Oct 2020 02:24

chetak wrote:even sending this guy to kindergarten was a colossal waste

after wantonly setting communal fires in UP, pappu is now hell bent on setting social fires in punjab

Have to disagree here. He is merely riding a wave which he had no role in starting.

A lot of what I see and hear ( I am a Jatt Sikh ), there is genuine concern about these bills ( laws currently ). The primary concerns voiced are:

1) Lack of legal recourse.

a. In case of complaints against firms running joint farms/procuring crops, the complaint is to be made to the SDM. Previously these would have been resolved by Mandi board chairmen, typically a political appointee from the state government, who would be less power distant from farmers as compared to an SDM who is an IAS officer.

b. Can not approach courts as a point of grievance redress. Also small farmers would not have the means to fight court cases/petition district magistrates against large corporate firms who may have a battery of lawyers at their disposal. A mandi board chairman being a political appointee has a vested interest in keeping farmers happy due to a vote bank factor.

2) Main concern: No in-built guarantee in the new laws that the government procurement system will continue. I know Modiji has repeatedly stressed there is no plan to end the public procurement process. This is counter-argued as to what would happen if a less honest person becomes the PM in future. Hence the demand to codify the government procurement system into law.

Guys, I know this forum leans right but the optics are not looking good for the BJP in Punjab. The next state election will be a zero contest without better public relations or media management on the ground and more safeguards.

Edited: There is no recourse to the court system under new rules at all.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 06 Oct 2020 02:34

https://twitter.com/utkarsh_aanand/stat ... 6442698754

#CJI-led bench in #SupremeCourt will tomorrow take up a PIL for a #CBI or SIT probe into the #Hathras alleged gangrape & murder case. The plea seeks probe under supervision of a retd SC or HC judge, besides changing the place of trial from #UttarPradesh to #Delhi.

Dilli HC is a favorite of Libtard/woke crowd along side the Bombay HC.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 06 Oct 2020 02:37

ManSingh wrote:A lot of what I see and hear ( I am a Jatt Sikh ), there is genuine concern about these bills ( laws currently ). The primary concerns voiced are:

I haven't seen the opposition describe any of these with your kind of clear articular explanation. You're better off posting these concerns directly to PMO India, which will likely be read, as opposed to depend on an opposition that's too invested in their former political influence in the mandis to do anything for the farmers.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 06 Oct 2020 02:40

ManSingh wrote:
chetak wrote:even sending this guy to kindergarten was a colossal waste

after wantonly setting communal fires in UP, pappu is now hell bent on setting social fires in punjab

Have to disagree here. He is merely riding a wave which he had no role in starting.

A lot of what I see and hear ( I am a Jatt Sikh ), there is genuine concern about these bills ( laws currently ). The primary concerns voiced are:

1) Lack of legal recourse.

a. In case of complaints against firms running joint farms/procuring crops, the complaint is to be made to the SDM. Previously these would have been resolved by Mandi board chairmen, typically a political appointee from the state government, who would be less power distant from farmers as compared to an SDM who is an IAS officer.

b. Can not approach courts as a first point of grievance redress. Also small farmers will not have the means to fight court cases against large corporate firms who may have a battery of lawyers at their disposal. A mandi board chairman being a political appointee has a vested interest in keeping farmers happy due to a vote bank factor.

2) Main concern: No in-built guarantee in the new laws that the government procurement system will continue. I know Modiji has repeatedly stressed there is no plan to end the public procurement process. This is counter-argued as to what would happen if a less honest person becomes the PM in future. Hence the demand to codify the government procurement system into law.

Guys, I know this forum leans right but the optics are not looking good for the BJP in Punjab. The next state election will be a zero contest without better public relations or media management on the ground and more safeguards.

interesting take and I see your point.

is the MSP codified in the APMC act too and if not, how did the mandis manage to run all these years

MSPs are announced only a few items. The govt has no business announcing MSPs for every agricultural produce brought into the mandi which is what the freeloading commies and naxals are instigating the "farmers" to ask for

every farmer seems to be aware of the MSPs and how they deal with produce that has no MSP.

There will be a fairer than now price discovery mechanism that will quickly evolve into, hopefully what is an efficient one, because the alternate is the ever present "commission agent" through whom they can still chose to deal, or not.

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 06 Oct 2020 02:49

The basic decades old problems being solved by Modi are irrespective of RW or left. The Mandi and co-op system were set up to suck farmers dry and that's what exactly has been observed for decades. IMO, what is in place today's the worst. Only thing worse is being ruled by britishers. Modi is solving problems that are what he has seen for starting from the bottom of economic pyramid and moving up. All systems can be abused and will have what if corruption arguments. However, as stated, end of the day if voters aren't lazy then corruption will stay in check and tolerable. Theoretical argument can always be made about honest politician not being there. WB, KL, etc. are examples of such where human rights of Hindus don't have any value. No written laws will save you from BIF and CMs like UT, mumta, etc.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 06 Oct 2020 02:53

ManSingh wrote: a. In case of complaints against firms running joint farms/procuring crops, the complaint is to be made to the SDM. Previously these would have been resolved by Mandi board chairmen, typically a political appointee from the state government, who would be less power distant from farmers as compared to an SDM who is an IAS officer.

b. Can not approach courts as a point of grievance redress. Also small farmers would not have the means to fight court cases/petition district magistrates against large corporate firms who may have a battery of lawyers at their disposal. A mandi board chairman being a political appointee has a vested interest in keeping farmers happy due to a vote bank factor.

2) Main concern: No in-built guarantee in the new laws that the government procurement system will continue. I know Modiji has repeatedly stressed there is no plan to end the public procurement process. This is counter-argued as to what would happen if a less honest person becomes the PM in future. Hence the demand to codify the government procurement system into law.

Guys, I know this forum leans right but the optics are not looking good for the BJP in Punjab. The next state election will be a zero contest without better public relations or media management on the ground and more safeguards.

Edited: There is no recourse to the court system under new rules at all.

What kind of political person gets appointed at Mandi level? I know this from another agrarian state where I come from. These Mandi level ones are pure thugs. For small farmers they even ask for women to buy the produce. Mandi system is a network of rural hold of political hierarchies. The caste based regional satraps (can be inside BJP or cong too) use these for their needed cadre.

How did congress create Onion crisis in Dilli during ABV government? Because of it's hold over mandis in Maha, AP through its satraps.

It's not about right or left. It is really about breaking down the caste/satrap hold barriers at rural level for a future of equal footing to all. The equal footing may not be perfect but a free trade based system creates a competitive one and yes a small farmer have problems. To alleviate such things the contract farming model where the smaller ones can give it to contractor will help.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 06 Oct 2020 03:04

chetak wrote: is the MSP codified in the APMC act too and if not, how did the mandis manage to run all these years

MSPs are announced only a few items. The govt has no business announcing MSPs for every agricultural produce brought into the mandi which is what the freeloading commies and naxals are instigating the "farmers" to ask for

every farmer seems to be aware of the MSPs and how they deal with produce that has no MSP.

There will be a fairer than now price discovery mechanism that will quickly evolve into, hopefully what is an efficient one, because the alternate is the ever present "commission agent" through whom they can still chose to deal, or not.

Asking for a MSP assurances inside new farm bills is similar to initial fight on GST. Remember the congress wanted BJP to actually put tax rates into constitutional amendment so that change of rates or adding a thing or two will be needing 2/3 majority instead of a money bill or administrative action.

Currently only 9% of total produce produced really gets MSP. The mandi thugs decide whose produce will be procured for FCI with MSP. Here also it is all those in the political networks get these favors. No open marketing/sales mechanism. How did a rich farmer concept evolve?

It is all few agrarian castes who had a past feudal construct is coopted by Cong/regional family/caste parties. They are the ones who become panchayat presidents, Mandi chairmens etc.

If you dig deep into history, the same folks were coopted by Islamic invaders to rule the Indian masses. They were given positions such as "dora" "chowdary" to collect taxes from peasants. Same dora, chowdary types are used by British later. Same folks created Justice Party because an independent India will something like what Modi has done. But Congress continued with mandis etc. For the first time this structure is getting dismantled.

The type of exploitation is far worse. These thuggish folks and castes auction a girl of smaller folks (basically OBCs) to get first change to "open the seal". They keep asking if the girl reached puberty so that the winner of the auction can open the seal.

Yeah there will be starting hiccups like we had with GST but these bills are move in the right direction.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 06 Oct 2020 03:07

KLNMurthy wrote:
I think the issue is that he said *daughters* should be raised properly so as to avoid getting raped. I don't see any way of condoning or excusing such a statement.

Here is his elaborate statement in his own words. The poor guy is a rustic bloke, may not have that urban finesse in his talking, but there was no need for Mahua bim** to unleash vituperatives against him. I mean she herself is a plagiarist, so she no right to any moral high ground

https://www.rediff.com/news/report/rahu ... 201005.htm

Speaking on the incidents of rape, the BJP legislator said, "Immoral works cannot be stopped till the head of the family - the father or the mother - don't monitor the activities of the daughter or the son."

ManSingh · Post by **ManSingh** » 06 Oct 2020 03:13

Fresh post, not continuing a chain of posts:

As far as I know ( I can not find relevant articles at a short notice ):

1) Mandi system and it's inherent MSP mechanism work quite well currently. As a history lesson, allowing sale of commodities outside of APMC's has lowered the sale price for farmers and increased costs for farmers. Read about Bihar's experience with maize/corn.

2) The mandi system has a tax 2-8% charged by state governments called Mandi fees to be paid by farmer's which is coded into law. This was earlier used for rural infrastructure development before ABV's rural development fund. Now it is used as a revenue source for state government(s). There is no tax to be charged by new private players after this act has been passed. This puts the mandi(s) at a disadvantage even if MSP practice is maintained. This is also pointed out as a systemic way of abolishing mandi system over a longer period of time in favour of private players.

3) List of commodities under MSP mechanism varies ( i don't know how ) between state to state and market to market.

4) In my opinion, there was absolutely no reason to limit access to the court system in case of disputes. The logic/counter-logic for this has never been explained by anyone.

5) I could not find any example in the western world, where corporate entities play a role in agriculture procurement or fixing of prices. There are several "Mandi board" type agencies all across the globe. Read about Quebec Maple syrup co-operative, how milk prices and quota is rationed in Ontario/Canada. Read about CAP subsidies in europe, PLC in USA etc. I understand that private players will be responsible for crop loss in India but this is not the same as loss to farmer due to price volatility. Besides there are no numbers as to what the private players will pay and under what circumstances that I could read about.

The law may have been well intended to free farmers from the bondage to mandi(s) and middle-men. But the net outcome in my opinion may not be what was intended.

@Suraj-san: A lot of what I have said have also been gleaned from various punjabi language video(s) made by farmer representatives and brought up in various fora. This has nothing to do with opposition parties who are just playing to the gallery. In any case these have been coded to law ( very hastily ) and I do not see them being reversed.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 06 Oct 2020 03:19

CRamS wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote:
I think the issue is that he said *daughters* should be raised properly so as to avoid getting raped. I don't see any way of condoning or excusing such a statement.
Here is his elaborate statement in his own words. The poor guy is a rustic bloke, may not have that urban finesse in his talking, but there was no need for Mahua bimbo to unleash vituperatives against him. I mean she herself is a plagiarist, so she no right to any moral high ground

https://www.rediff.com/news/report/rahu ... 201005.htm

Speaking on the incidents of rape, the BJP legislator said, "Immoral works cannot be stopped till the head of the family - the father or the mother - don't monitor the activities of the daughter or the son."

I am not inclined to give him a pass, based on him being a "poor guy", a "rustic bloke", or "not having any finesse" etc. To me, that's highly patronizing and wrong. Towards the individual as well as the UP culture he represents. I have been following UP-based Hindi speakers on twitter, and I have seen a depth of culture and sophistication in their tweets that only the very shallow would brand as "rustic" and "lacking finesse", just because they are not anglophone. I will judge him by the same standards I would judge, say, Shashi Tharoor.

The fact is that he said a very wrong thing, that is completely against Hindu tradition and culture. If a woman is dishonored or attacked, all the great works of the culture show the hammer being brought down not just on the perpetrating man, but on the entire society and culture that was complicit in it. There is zero blaming of the female or her parents, and zero mercy to the male perpetrators.

I get it, those who jump to criticize him are scum who aren't worthy of respect. And their scumminess gave him an opportunity to deflect the criticism on to the critics (in this case Pappu and Pappini), while quietly changing his words to "sons and daughters." (BTW, if that's not sophisticated, albeit sleazy, damage control and fightback worthy of the scummiest corporate giants, I would like to know what is). That's fine, he is entitled to fight his fight in his way.

But I am going to judge him by what he originally said (and by which he said he is standing), and I am going to find him severely wanting in moral character or cultural integrity, unworthy of being the teacher he says he is.

To win this war, we must be clear as to our values and be "vajraadapi kaThOraani" in enforcing them. No namby-pamby excusemaking will do.

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 06 Oct 2020 03:25

Modi has stressed about instilling values in both son and daughter. It shouldn't be that hard for other BJP folks to share their opinion using the same words.

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 06 Oct 2020 03:46

UN has nothing to say about rapes committed by islamists or rapes committed by chinese.

'Time-tested record of providing justice': MEA slams UN top diplomat's remark on Hathras case
https://www.wionews.com/india-news/time ... ase-332770
India has slammed United Nation's Resident Coordinator Renata Lok-Dessallien's comments on Hathras and Balarampur cases, calling them "unwarranted comments" and since the "investigation process is still underway" any "unnecessary comments by an external agency are best avoided."

The ministry of external affairs in a strongly worded statement said, "UN Resident Coordinator in India should be aware that these cases have been taken extremely seriously by the government", reminding the top UN diplomat in Delhi that, "Constitution guarantees equality to all citizens of India. As a democracy, we have a time-tested record of providing justice to all sections of our society.”
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