Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 20 Oct 2020 07:30

Kakarat wrote:Another Notam
https://twitter.com/detresfa_/status/13 ... 6921720832
#Areawarning #India activates two danger zones off the coast of #Balasore in the #BayOfBengal area, one known for A2A firing, the other a target towing range

Notam for 15 Days. Looks good for multiple tests. what is being trialed?
-Meteor
-Upgraded R77 Missiles
-Astra II

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 20 Oct 2020 10:17

Maybe even SFDR

vipins · Post by **vipins** » 20 Oct 2020 13:30

Vips wrote:
Kakarat wrote:Another Notam
https://twitter.com/detresfa_/status/13 ... 6921720832
Notam for 15 Days. Looks good for multiple tests. what is being trialed?
-Meteor
-Upgraded R77 Missiles
-Astra II

There was another NOTAM from 19th Oct to 3rd Nov for IAF exercises , could have been postponed by another 8 days.
Missile tests are normally notified as launch of 'Launch of Experimental Flight Vehicle'.
https://twitter.com/detresfa_/status/1315215851742588928?s=20

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 21 Oct 2020 15:22

mody wrote:Was the SANT missile test fired from Rudra or Mi-35 platform? Indian Defence Update on YouTube has claimed that earlier tests of SANT had been carried out from MI-35. About the latest test, there are no details as yet.
But a SANT test is great news for the Rudra and LCH.

Fired from a ground launcher.

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 21 Oct 2020 20:09

The follow up test firing of SANT (2nd test) which was scheduled for yesterday has not happened.

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 21 Oct 2020 21:57

Another Notam issued for period between 28/10 to 30/10 (Range of <460 Kms)

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 22 Oct 2020 01:50

https://twitter.com/detresfa_/status/13 ... 6709832705

#Areawarning #India issues a notification for Joint Firing by #IndianNavy Ships & #IndianAirForce Aircraft in the #BayOfBengal

Fire Window | 30-31 October 2020

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 22 Oct 2020 01:52

https://twitter.com/detresfa_/status/13 ... 8108880896

#Areawarning #India issues a notification for firing by #IndianNavy Ships in the #ArabianSea

Fire Window | 28-30 October 2020

Nitesh · Post by **Nitesh** » 22 Oct 2020 09:02

In Twitter: Nag is tested at 6:45 AM today

asgkhan · Post by **asgkhan** » 22 Oct 2020 13:48

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1319177091577860096

India's Nag anti-tank missile has just had its final user trial. The
@DRDO_India
now declares it ready for induction. https://youtu.be/B5FpYlSTBTI

nam · Post by **nam** » 22 Oct 2020 13:54

We should come up with a 30-40KM version of SANT with Imaging RF or IR seeker, which can be deployed on peaks. It can act like a static drone, providing firesupport against Chini targets on the Tibet plains.

At these ranges, with low visibility exhaust, the Chinis won't know what is hitting them.

But then there is much higher chance that Chinis will come up with such a weapon, before we even form a GSQR

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 22 Oct 2020 15:28

asgkhan wrote:https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1319177091577860096

India's Nag anti-tank missile has just had its final user trial. The
@DRDO_India
now declares it ready for induction. https://youtu.be/B5FpYlSTBTI

The last of IGMDP.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 22 Oct 2020 17:14

asgkhan wrote:https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1319177091577860096

India's Nag anti-tank missile has just had its final user trial. The
@DRDO_India
now declares it ready for induction.

Not sure what trial this is. Nag had completed all trial by July 2019,afaik.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 22 Oct 2020 17:49

Current Goi is making sure that indigenous product do get accepted. Of course the still surviving malcontents in the system are trying to sabotage, so you will hear final trials few more time. Perhaps GOI will take action against these people, else I am afraid we will see more final trails after another final trail. Though this group has to be handled carefully as it can backfire big time.

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 22 Oct 2020 19:22

SSridhar wrote:
asgkhan wrote:https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1319177091577860096

India's Nag anti-tank missile has just had its final user trial. The
@DRDO_India
now declares it ready for induction.
Not sure what trial this is. Nag had completed all trial by July 2019,afaik.

I was hoping for a test of the Man portable version of the NAG which is under development.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 22 Oct 2020 20:26

A so-called SANT test was done a few days back, but with no official acknowledgement. Now this. Maybe these tests are related

vipins · Post by **vipins** » 22 Oct 2020 22:20

SSridhar wrote:
asgkhan wrote:https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1319177091577860096

India's Nag anti-tank missile has just had its final user trial. The
@DRDO_India
now declares it ready for induction.
Not sure what trial this is. Nag had completed all trial by July 2019,afaik.

Even it was given new name as 'ProspiNa'. but this time official release have name as NAG .

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 22 Oct 2020 22:28

Indranil wrote:
JTull wrote:There's a report that entire missile was recovered from sea so they'll be able to do extremely good failure analysis.
Impossible.
1. If a self-destruct button was used, missile won't be in one piece even before it hits the water.
2. If a self-destruct button was not used, the missile will be in thousands of pieces after hitting the water.

Not a reliable source but for what it's worth!

Nirbhay Snag identified, Next test soon

Recovered Nirbhay Cruise Missile which had plunged into the sea in recent missile trial, has helped Program Team to identify the snag which happened 8 minutes into the flight and has been tagged as a minor one, coming as a major relief to the Top Management of the DRDO, which has seen multiple missile system trials amid a standoff with Chinese forces in the LAC.

Nirbhay for the first time was fitted with the indigenously developed, Small Turbo Fan Engine (STFE) propulsion system developed by the Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) and it was reported earlier, that it was STFE which had developed a Snag, but it has been now told, that it was the booster snag prevented clean separation due to which the missile plunged into the sea.

Nirbhay Program Team will be going for another missile trial in the next 2-3 months and if allowed it might be preponed and a fresh trial can be carried out, in 4-6 weeks if DRDO Management is satisfied with the report filed by the Program Team. 2-3 more trials have been planned to demonstrate repeated success before the missile is cleared for production.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 22 Oct 2020 23:12

SSridhar wrote:
asgkhan wrote:https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1319177091577860096

India's Nag anti-tank missile has just had its final user trial. The
@DRDO_India
now declares it ready for induction.
Not sure what trial this is. Nag had completed all trial by July 2019,afaik.

Next to the Nirbhay, the news about Nag and NAMICA has always been the most confusing of all our programs. It is ready, it is not ready, the seeker doesn't work well in 50 deg C in Rajasthan, then it was apparently fixed and all trials completed last year. Then this year the Defence Minister announced the product "launch" of NAMICA with no explanation of what that actually meant since it has already existed for years. And now this.

Meanwhile Dhruvastra and SANT are being tested while Helina appears to have disappeared. LCH/Rudra are still waiting for any ATGM at all to be integrated on them.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 23 Oct 2020 00:00

JTull wrote:
Indranil wrote: Impossible.
1. If a self-destruct button was used, missile won't be in one piece even before it hits the water.
2. If a self-destruct button was not used, the missile will be in thousands of pieces after hitting the water.
Not a reliable source but for what it's worth!

Nirbhay Snag identified, Next test soon

Recovered Nirbhay Cruise Missile which had plunged into the sea in recent missile trial, has helped Program Team to identify the snag which happened 8 minutes into the flight and has been tagged as a minor one, coming as a major relief to the Top Management of the DRDO, which has seen multiple missile system trials amid a standoff with Chinese forces in the LAC.

Nirbhay for the first time was fitted with the indigenously developed, Small Turbo Fan Engine (STFE) propulsion system developed by the Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) and it was reported earlier, that it was STFE which had developed a Snag, but it has been now told, that it was the booster snag prevented clean separation due to which the missile plunged into the sea.

Nirbhay Program Team will be going for another missile trial in the next 2-3 months and if allowed it might be preponed and a fresh trial can be carried out, in 4-6 weeks if DRDO Management is satisfied with the report filed by the Program Team. 2-3 more trials have been planned to demonstrate repeated success before the missile is cleared for production.

I can't make head or tail out of this report.

1. Booster burnout happens at roughly 11 seconds from launch and ejection happens at roughly 12. If booster doesn't separate.
2. If it was a booster snag, then how was it a STFE problem?

nam · Post by **nam** » 23 Oct 2020 00:30

It was initially reported as SFTE issue. Someone feed the journo that "engine was not certified on ground". You could make out the engine was the scapegoat..

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 23 Oct 2020 00:41

Latest round of NAG test was fired from a BMPII/Namica and it hit a target (Vijayanta) tank in top attack mode.

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 23 Oct 2020 00:45

Indranil wrote:
JTull wrote:There's a report that entire missile was recovered from sea so they'll be able to do extremely good failure analysis.
Impossible.
1. If a self-destruct button was used, missile won't be in one piece even before it hits the water.
2. If a self-destruct button was not used, the missile will be in thousands of pieces after hitting the water.

#2 it all depends on the velocity vector when it hits the water.

If it was parallel to the ocean then it can easily glide in like a seaplane and then sink.
If it was vertical then your hypothesis holds water.

If it had lost propulsion then, and lost lift, it is unlikely to have pivoted and gone down vertical; very much like a descend into the ocean.

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 23 Oct 2020 01:07

Vips wrote:Latest round of NAG test was fired from a BMPII/Namica and it hit a target (Vijayanta) tank in top attack mode.

Seems like after this test, orders will be placed for Namica - although it should have happened months if not years ago. But better late than never

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 23 Oct 2020 01:13

@Indranil.

If the failure happened after 8 minutes then it won't be a booster separation issue! They didn't have to use a self-destruct mechanism. Maybe the STFE just shut off on it's own and missile glided into the sea. Maybe it veered off course so they shut it off. No one knows really.

nam · Post by **nam** » 23 Oct 2020 02:13

Come to think of it CM have a history of not self destructing easily. The in-famous incident of Tomahawks landing in one piece within our dear neighbor's house..and then making them "cruise missile superpower" overnight..

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 23 Oct 2020 02:31

Video of Nag test.

Given the 5 second delay in sound of blast, target would be approx 1.7 km away

https://twitter.com/drdo_india/status/1 ... 76064?s=12

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Oct 2020 04:33

JTull wrote:@Indranil.

If the failure happened after 8 minutes then it won't be a booster separation issue! They didn't have to use a self-destruct mechanism. Maybe the STFE just shut off on it's own and missile glided into the sea. Maybe it veered off course so they shut it off. No one knows really.

The booster separation if not clean,might still be deadweight. So they got 8 minutes of STFE burn and that's good data. Maybe that changed flight profile and it dunked.

Nirbhay has a bunch of wicked critics. One moron screamed utter failure when a piece part broke leading to test anomaly.

Now another or same moron claimed engine not completed tests.

Definitely some bad vibes.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Oct 2020 04:40

One thing I don't understand is booster snag. The booster must have been repeatedly test fired on the ground and separation with inert case.
So far atleast 7 successful booster test firings and separation happened. If you plot that on probability paper would give over 90% or higher probability of booster firing and separation.

Did they tweak the booster design?

disha · Post by **disha** » 23 Oct 2020 05:00

The PSLV shield separation failure? The issue was a pyro failure. The pyro itself did not generate the requisite gas pressure in the bellows that separate out the shields. So even in the most tested systems, this can happen.

Pyro separators can be notorious and in this case this was the first test with booster separation with a new engine. Hence it is plausible that the booster separation was not clean in flight conditions leading to deadweight and thus a curtailed flight.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 23 Oct 2020 11:54

In Nirbhay's case, I can understand the reasons for delay in induction. It took a while for ADE to get its act together. And now its a new engine & so failures are expected.

NAG/Namica is a case of sheer apathy on the part of armed forces. Hopefully, this time around, their attitude will be different.

If there is 1 thing that's begging for induction, given China, its Helina & NAG. Even if LCH induction takes time, there are Rudras that are waiting for an ATGM. They should expedite both NAG & Helina induction on a war-footing. Enough tests have been done!

mody · Post by **mody** » 23 Oct 2020 15:45

Dhuvastra = Helina.

Some reports are mentioning that 25 Namica have been ordered along with 300-400 Nag missiles. After the recent test, the production is about to start.
I think 25 Namica is too small a number. Minimum 60 should be ordered with say 6 Namica's forming 1 ATGM battalion/squadron.
Maybe some one like @Rohitvats can propose a likely ORBAT role for the Namica-Nag combo.

The Helina tests should be completed at the earliest and missile cleared for production. There were 2-3 test conducted a few months back. One test was for the lowest 0.5 Km engagement range and 1 specifically testing the top attack mode. Don't know what is still pending.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 23 Oct 2020 16:43

What is the source of this "booster snag" news? Is it any more reliable then those harping on STFE anomaly?

Best to wait for the next test, and we'll have a press release that problem was resolved!

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 23 Oct 2020 17:28

After decades of " Nagging",Nag ( pardon the pun) finally makes
the grade! Better late thannever,but never must any future DRDO programme take this long.Nag's range today is the bare minimum,as future ranges are looking at 10km.
Swift production for both ground and attack helo reqs.needed.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 23 Oct 2020 18:17

kit wrote:
SSridhar wrote:BrahMos tested from INS Chennai today in the Arabian Sea and from Rajnath Singh downwards everyone congratulates. Obviously, there is more to it than meets the eye.

i suppose one can only guess ER land attack version ? ..maybe a 1000 km

The number of improvents that we are adding to Bhmos is mind boggling (from Indian side).
OTOH, rus has offered only 2 improvents from base Onyiks version...1. 1000km Brahmos(800+km) , 2. Brahmos-Mini (Brahmos -NG). Rest offers are hypersonic versions.

Onyiks was tested for 800+ km in 2019 and it is known as On(y)iks - M. This year this technology came up for discussion. Panel under Rajnath Singh found the price they were asking too steep.
Rather than taking the offer, in my perceived opinion, it may be that the indian team should have unleased in the last tested Brahmos, its homegrown tech thats seems very niche. In essence they are sculpting their own path for their Bhmos.
And there seems to be many trick up our sleeves.

PS..it may be that we may not need their On(y)ik-M tech. Just in case if there were any confusion.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 23 Oct 2020 18:37

Once ballistic misdile is fired, it cannot be stopped. So to abort the mission, the option available is to press the "self-destruct" button.

In case of cruise missile, all you have to do is stop the engine. To abort the mission, you can simply send the signal to shutdown the turbofan/turbojet engine. Self-destruct option comes later.

If they have recovery of the missile in mind, they may have a pre-approved plan/flight path so that they can collect the missile at the appropriate place.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 23 Oct 2020 18:48

Vips wrote:Latest round of NAG test was fired from a BMPII/Namica and it hit a target (Vijayanta) tank in top attack mode.

There seems to be perceived growth path for Nag. There were representation in the the form of ppt slides. Panel discussion on the same, altogether.
In a positive note, May be, nag is getting some of these improvements.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 23 Oct 2020 19:32

so what the publicly advertised range on nag??

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 23 Oct 2020 21:36

https://twitter.com/strategic_front/sta ... 44448?s=20 ---> Dhruvastra is a ~10 km ranged IIR guided air-launched ATGM meant to be fired off from the HAL Rudra, the weaponised version of the ALH Dhruv helicopter.

kit · Post by **kit** » 23 Oct 2020 21:42

Why wasnt it called Rudrastra ? ..curious about the nomenclature !!