2020 US election results discussion

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 12 Nov 2020 22:34

saip wrote: The only thing we can do at this point to chill, relax, grab a favorite drink and enjoy the show.

Amen to that.

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 12 Nov 2020 22:38

Pratyush wrote: Over the last 4 years. He has been correct more often than not.

Even where the media headlines say Trump lied the following article near the bottom section usually contradicts itself.

Media does that as they know most people don't read the full article.

Is this a joke? Even the most vocal Trump supporters argue that one must not pay attention to what he says because "its just for show".

https://www.inputmag.com/culture/google ... s-election

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veracity_ ... nald_Trump

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 12 Nov 2020 23:19

^^^Neither are credible sources of information. Especially wikipedia as they're referencing the WaPo & CNN. They had it in for Trump since 2015.

This is like using Global Times and The Wire as your sources on India.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 12 Nov 2020 23:45

Mort Walker wrote:^^^Neither are credible sources of information. Especially wikipedia as they're referencing the WaPo & CNN. They had it in for Trump since 2015.

This is like using Global Times and The Wire as your sources on India.

Yes who fact-checks fact-checkers.

For FB/Twitter one of fact-checkers is WaPo also.

Kaivalya · Post by **Kaivalya** » 13 Nov 2020 00:21

I know very little about the political scene, but I believe in "follow the money" when it comes to problems like these.

I am given to understand that upto 50% of the current donations collected for the "legal fights" can be used to pay off the campaign debt incurred during this election

I will try and post the references for the donation verbiage. More than the position that either side is digging into, dec 14th is the deadline for the states to finish whatever they are doing ...no hurry, we will find out

Edit : https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/trump- ... xzuW4lIwai

Please note : 60% goes to retiring debt, 40% goes to RNC.you see why everyone (dems and reps) is non-committal.

Dems have a slightly different structure that does not include debt retirement...but I believe the net result is similar

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 13 Nov 2020 00:22

Mort Walker wrote:Neither are credible sources of information. Especially wikipedia as they're referencing the WaPo & CNN. They had it in for Trump since 2015.

This is like using Global Times and The Wire as your sources on India.

That's your opinion and an overarching statement. WaPo, and CNN are arguably not Trump leaning, but absolutely nothing like Global Times and only someone who believes in Brietbart, and other conspiracy news sources would peddle this.

For Wikipedia, one need to check the references cited, not just the article itself. For the posted Wikipedia page, there are more than 300 sources cited.

Some conservative/republican sources about trump's "truthiness"

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/trump-b ... ard-fowler

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 22061.html

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 13 Nov 2020 00:53

The problem with disparaging and belittling your adversary is that when you end up losing to him, you would look like...

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 13 Nov 2020 01:20

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pennsy ... adline.amp

"A Pennsylvania judge ruled in favor of the Trump campaign Thursday, ordering that the state may not count ballots where the voters needed to provide proof of identification and failed to do so by Nov. 9."

So how many voted without
- ID proof.
- returning before cut off time
- honoring other PA legislature rules.

They need to go for full audit like Georgia to weed out all invalid ballots.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 13 Nov 2020 01:41

Fox News report on this is a bit selective with the facts.

Here is The WaPo version:

"In a separate case, Trump’s campaign won a victory on Thursday when a judge ordered officials not to count any ballots where voters were allowed to provide missing proof of identification between Nov. 10 and Nov. 12. Judge Mary Hannah Leavitt wrote that Kathy Boockvar, the secretary of the commonwealth, “lacked statutory authority” when she extended that deadline by three days."

So it seems there was some leeway given to provide ID proof later than the deadline of Nov 9th. Doesn't prove that that no ID proof was given at all but the votes were still counted. Strictly going by the book, these ballots could be set aside. But hardly seems like "organised massive fraud".

What about all the other cases that were thrown out?

saip · Post by **saip** » 13 Nov 2020 02:10

Cyrano wrote:The problem with disparaging and belittling your adversary is that when you end up losing to him, you would look like...

You DO NOT win arguments by insulting your opponent -- Hobbs

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 13 Nov 2020 02:34

Cyrano wrote:Fox News report on this is a bit selective with the facts.

Here is The WaPo version:
"In a separate case, Trump’s campaign won a victory on Thursday when a judge ordered officials not to count any ballots where voters were allowed to provide missing proof of identification between Nov. 10 and Nov. 12. Judge Mary Hannah Leavitt wrote that Kathy Boockvar, the secretary of the commonwealth, “lacked statutory authority” when she extended that deadline by three days."
So it seems there was some leeway given to provide ID proof later than the deadline of Nov 9th. Doesn't prove that that no ID proof was given at all but the votes were still counted. Strictly going by the book, these ballots could be set aside. But hardly seems like "organised massive fraud".

What about all the other cases that were thrown out?

As per the US constitution, PA state legislature sets the laws and rules.

If Governer is subverting laws, If Secretary of state is bending rules, If Secretary of commonwealth is overruling legislature, it obviously looks "organized" to make elections in their favor.

saip · Post by **saip** » 13 Nov 2020 03:37

^^This appears apply to only provisional ballots. The extension is equally applicable to Democrats and Republicans. Because of COVID SoS might have thought it is good to extend the days by three days. At the most a few hundred, if that, would be have been affected.

saip · Post by **saip** » 13 Nov 2020 03:42

ShyamSP wrote:https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pennsy ... adline.amp

"A Pennsylvania judge ruled in favor of the Trump campaign Thursday, ordering that the state may not count ballots where the voters needed to provide proof of identification and failed to do so by Nov. 9."

So how many voted without
- ID proof.
- returning before cut off time
- honoring other PA legislature rules.

They need to go for full audit like Georgia to weed out all invalid ballots.

What is an Invalid ballot? How at this stage they can find them? You know the voting is by secret ballot. That means once a ballot is opened and fed through a machine for count, NO VOTER ID info will be there. He could be a dead voter, illegal alien not entitled to vote or not resident and thus should not have voted etc. Too late to find that. Before an envelope is opened (for mail in ballots) it can be challenged by poll watchers from both the parties and if found invlid it would have been NOT counted.
BTW GA uses touch screen machines with paper trail. So if you go to a polling station your ID would have been checked and asked to sign on the machine and given an electronic card to load the ballot. Then you use touch screen to cast your ballot and print a QR code and you can verify then and there whether your vote went through.

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 13 Nov 2020 04:10

ShyamSP wrote:
If Governer is subverting laws, If Secretary of state is bending rules, If Secretary of commonwealth is overruling legislature

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/28/us/s ... llots.html

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Nov 2020 04:14

Jay wrote:
ShyamSP wrote:
If Governer is subverting laws, If Secretary of state is bending rules, If Secretary of commonwealth is overruling legislature

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/28/us/s ... llots.html

Old news item. Not germane

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 13 Nov 2020 05:59

Jay wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:Neither are credible sources of information. Especially wikipedia as they're referencing the WaPo & CNN. They had it in for Trump since 2015.

This is like using Global Times and The Wire as your sources on India.
That's your opinion and an overarching statement. WaPo, and CNN are arguably not Trump leaning, but absolutely nothing like Global Times and only someone who believes in Brietbart, and other conspiracy news sources would peddle this.

For Wikipedia, one need to check the references cited, not just the article itself. For the posted Wikipedia page, there are more than 300 sources cited.

Some conservative/republican sources about trump's "truthiness"

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/trump-b ... ard-fowler

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 22061.html

Really? WaPo and CNN have carried absolutely racist drivel against India as well.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 13 Nov 2020 09:07

Hopefully Republicans win one of two Senates and deny Biden Senate majority. He will be lame duck.

Biden is already being attacked by Islamist/Marxist gang of Omar/Rashida and AOC. Once they lose Senate, Dems live in mortal fear of losing House in 2022.
Current House stands
Democrats 220(-7)
Republicans 208(+8)

Republicans will win 3 to 5 in the remaining 7 seats. So they will be anywhere between 211-213. That means they are only 5 to 7 seats from majority. They won several Houses to control majority of redistricting before 2022.

Biden is taking Kamala's husband in to administration. Most likely to assist Kamala's take over of WH if Biden can't stay awake.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 13 Nov 2020 09:16

The Georgia Senate seats are cooked. Stacey Abrams has promised to deliver knowing how well the cheat-by-mail has worked. People from NYC and west coast are coming into Georgia claiming residency.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 13 Nov 2020 09:39

Mort Walker wrote:The Georgia Senate seats are cooked. Stacey Abrams has promised to deliver knowing how well the cheat-by-mail has worked. People from NYC and west coast are coming into Georgia claiming residency.

They have to fix Georgia mail-in balloting and residency requirements before the January elections. Democrats are calling people to come and populate, register, and get ballots before January. Republican people may revolt if that happens but Trump fixing the system now is important whether Biden takes the Whitehouse or not.

Also on Senate, if the audit, re-canvass, and recount they are doing invalidate votes, one Senate seat can go through as it is very close to 50%.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 13 Nov 2020 09:42

^^^There may not be enough time to do that which is why Stacey Abrams is very optimistic.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 13 Nov 2020 09:45

We will see, Trump just got his first win in PA that the sos did not had the authority to change the rules 2 days before the elections.

That will nullify a lot of votes. Will that be enough to hand over the state to Trump.

Wait and watch.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 13 Nov 2020 09:55

Trump considering announcing 2024 run

As a next step, Mr. Trump is talking seriously about announcing that he is planning to run again in 2024

This may bring a quick end to this election. Although, Trump starting up again with Revolt rallies akin to the Resist protests that lasted the last 4 years will mean for a troubling 4 years.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 13 Nov 2020 10:12

^^^That's not happening. Dems will jail him and his family for life. Already they're talking about trying Trump for each of the 250,000+ deaths. If Biden was a statesman, he would say that Trump is pardoned and should think of his legacy. I remember Ford saying as much when Nixon resigned in August 1974. The 1976 presidential election was close.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 13 Nov 2020 10:53

Leftist political parties, MSM entities, Universities etc are all now Anti Bharat ( they are basically Anti Hindu and since in their eyes Hindu and Bharat is the same they are anti Bharat). These leftists also heavily supported by Soft Jihadi ( and hard Jihadis pretending to be soft Jihadis) in almost every election. They will oppose any step GoI takes which is in the interest of the nation. They are ok for any lootian or BIF steps. This is true for Dems in the US or Labour Party in the UK.

The major strategic threat to Bharat as on today comes form these leftist entities and their BIF teams than Pakis or even Chinese as external threats like Chinese can be identified and dealt with but not BIF.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 13 Nov 2020 11:25

Mort Walker wrote:^^^That's not happening. Dems will jail him and his family for life. Already they're talking about trying Trump for each of the 250,000+ deaths. If Biden was a statesman, he would say that Trump is pardoned and should think of his legacy. I remember Ford saying as much when Nixon resigned in August 1974. The 1976 presidential election was close.

I don't think they cross such a red line release chain of such actions to be done when the other party comes to power. Also unlike other Republicans of the past, Trump has really created 71 million Fans, like Indian movie super stars do, and those fans also are second amendment people and no power will touch them without consequences.

KL Dubey · Post by **KL Dubey** » 13 Nov 2020 11:29

Pratyush wrote:We will see, Trump just got his first win in PA that the sos did not had the authority to change the rules 2 days before the elections.

That will nullify a lot of votes. Will that be enough to hand over the state to Trump.

Wait and watch.

Kuch nahin hona hai bhai....almost all, if not all, those ballots were set aside already and were not yet counted. The judge simply said not to bother counting them. Biden already won the election in PA without these ballots.

This thread seems to have become an extension of Trump campaign's last gasps.

KL Dubey · Post by **KL Dubey** » 13 Nov 2020 11:37

NaMo sarkar will surely focus on setting the agenda and will deal firmly with whoever sits on the white house porcelain throne.

It seems BRF is way behind the curve....still a very reactive mindset towards India-USA relations.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 13 Nov 2020 11:56

saip wrote:^^This appears apply to only provisional ballots. The extension is equally applicable to Democrats and Republicans. Because of COVID SoS might have thought it is good to extend the days by three days. At the most a few hundred, if that, would be have been affected.

how do you know that "at most a few hundred" are affected? water divining, I presume.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 13 Nov 2020 12:22

Vayutuvan wrote:
saip wrote:^^This appears apply to only provisional ballots. The extension is equally applicable to Democrats and Republicans. Because of COVID SoS might have thought it is good to extend the days by three days. At the most a few hundred, if that, would be have been affected.
how do you know that "at most a few hundred" are affected? water divining, I presume.

Although this is one specific ruling, Court ruling clearly means executive positions (Governer, SOS, other secretaries) have no authority to change laws and rules, it means all rules set up go back to original PA legislative laws and rules.

saip · Post by **saip** » 13 Nov 2020 21:00

Vayutuvan wrote:
saip wrote:^^This appears apply to only provisional ballots. The extension is equally applicable to Democrats and Republicans. Because of COVID SoS might have thought it is good to extend the days by three days. At the most a few hundred, if that, would be have been affected.
how do you know that "at most a few hundred" are affected? water divining, I presume.

Historical data.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 13 Nov 2020 22:21

Anyone using NYT/Wapo/CNN/NPR (you can add BBC/Al Jazeera too to that list) as their sources already lost their argument IMO. I don't know nothing about US election process and don't care either. But I know the BS which these american "liberal" news outlets say regarding India/Hindus/Modi. Its all 100% propaganda and 0% truth. So I agree with US rightwing when they say these outlets are fake news. Not that Fox/Brietbart are so better than these outlets regarding India. But they don't go out of their way dissing India or Modi using BS sources or journalists. And wikipedia ( and twitter, facebook) editors use these same BS american/uk based outlets to spout their own BS.

saip · Post by **saip** » 13 Nov 2020 22:27

All is not lost for Trump. If he can keep this going till the cows come home (which they do on Jan 6), then the House of Representatives may have to declare one of the candidates (from top three receivers of the electoral votes) as the President. Surprise of surprises. Trump seems to be having majority in the new House of Representatives. :-

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 13 Nov 2020 22:41

Rony wrote:Anyone using NYT/Wapo/CNN/NPR (you can add BBC/Al Jazeera too to that list) as their sources already lost their argument IMO. I don't know nothing about US election process and don't care either. But I know the BS which these american "liberal" news outlets say regarding India/Hindus/Modi. Its all 100% propaganda and 0% truth. So I agree with US rightwing when they say these outlets are fake news. Not that Fox/Brietbart are so better than these outlets regarding India. But they don't go out of their way dissing India or Modi using BS sources or journalists. And wikipedia ( and twitter, facebook) editors use these same BS american/uk based outlets to spout their own BS.

Welcome to US tinpot Elections Rony Garu.

Democrats have been pushing low verification* system to game elections. When they couldn't pass laws, they gamed with executive rule changes using Covid. Big time ballot harvesting went on, which I don't know to what extent can be proved.

All they needed was targeted few cities to win by bloating votes and it showed that way post elections.

*Verification. - As an example in California, one can theoritically cross border across from Mexico, get driving license and vote in California. That how bad system is.

In mail-in-ballots, only verification is signature and/or postal date stamp and some states rules were set to ignore verifications. Theoretically one can go behind postman van collect ballots in mailboxes and mass vote.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 13 Nov 2020 22:55

ShyamsP wrote: *Verification - As an example in California, one can theoritically cross border across from Mexico, get driving license and vote in California. That how bad system is.

So its like Mamata Banerjee/Congress guys using illegal Bangladeshis, giving them ration cards or aadhar's and using them as a vote bank ?

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 13 Nov 2020 23:02

Rony wrote:So its like Mamata Banerjee/Congress guys using illegal Bangladeshis, giving them ration cards or aadhar's and using them as a vote bank ?

Yes. With mail-in-ballots they don't need to go that extent.
Theoritically, they can generously pay a skilled agent to harvest* and vote. If you give, say $100 per ballot, 100K votes cost $10mil, which is way less than what Democrats spent for some Senate seats ($50-100 mil/per seat)

*How can a dead person vote unless his/her ballot is harvested?

saip · Post by **saip** » 13 Nov 2020 23:08

Saying something COULD happen is not equivalent to saying something DID happen. That is the way courts function. 'Beyond reasonable doubt' or 'Preponderance of Evidence', depending on what type of case, come to mind. That is the way it has been and that is the way it should be.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 13 Nov 2020 23:10

If it were that easy, why didn't the Trump camp do the same? They got bitten by Raja Harischandra all of a sudden?

dsreedhar · Post by **dsreedhar** » 13 Nov 2020 23:11

Coming to polling fraud there was a recent incident in Dallas, Texas. This is not related to Presidential election but a mayoral election. The guy (Mohamed) requested absentee ballots and doing fraudulent activity. The guy himself was a candidate contesting. Imagine if a single guy like him, possibly immigrant can trick the system, what can a organized group of leftists and islamists could do?

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2020/10/08/car ... ter-fraud/

Whether Trump gets the WH office or not, the system need to be cleaned up, fraudsters and criminals be punished for a better, secure polling system for future of democracy.

Agree with Rony his take on NYT/Wapo/CNN/NPR/BBC. Bunch of leftist media. Long timers in BRF should be knowing that by now.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 13 Nov 2020 23:13

saip wrote:Saying something COULD happen is not equivalent to saying something DID happen. That is the way courts function. 'Beyond reasonable doubt' or 'Preponderance of Evidence', depending on what type of case, come to mind. That is the way it has been and that is the way it should be.

All they have to prove frauds happened. Dead people voting is clear case one type of frauds.

Theoretically, Legislature and/or court can declare fraud and they don't need to invalidate all votes. Legislature can ask Electors to vote for the other candidate.

Voting in election is to indicate preference of Presidential candidate only.

All this can be solved if Trump concedes. Hence a lot of propaganda in main stream media and twitters - "Trump, you are sore loser, why don't you concede?"

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 13 Nov 2020 23:24

Cyrano wrote:If it were that easy, why didn't the Trump camp do the same? They got bitten by Raja Harischandra all of a sudden?

Theoritically, If you go to democratic areas you can get 1000 ballots in few projects buildings, apartment buildings or streets. Doing so is difficult in Republican areas to that extent.

They can do but scale operation is difficult.