India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Sonugn · Post by **Sonugn** » 26 Nov 2020 22:05

Article co-authored by Jake Sullivan dated October 2019

How America Can Both Challenge and Coexist With China

Managed coexistence with China could come to define Biden's policy. His administration’s statements could give comfort to both advocates of a tough approach toward China and advocates of a grand bargain with Beijing, while it quietly works with China in areas of common interest. via Chellany

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 27 Nov 2020 03:16

People like Jake Sullivan and Tony Blinken will reach some sort of strategic agreement with China, and in the process will throw India under the strategic bus.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 27 Nov 2020 05:21

KJo wrote:I was hoping for Tulsi Gabbard to find a spot.

Out of question as long as KD Harris is in the VP chair.

habal · Post by **habal** » 27 Nov 2020 13:19

Biden's picks for SoS and SoD confirms my suspiscions that the entire covid pandemic play was orchestrated by the democrats and China to undermine Trump. Both were in hot waters due to Trump's economic moves and would have considerable losses if he were to continue in his path unchallenged. Connect the dots how China allowed the virus to spread from Wuhan to other parts of the world yet islanded Wuhan in such a way to prevent spread to beijing, shanghai, guangzhou, chengdu etc. And the way in which university of north carolina level-4 lab allowed 'researcher' to escape with virus to wuhan (presemptuously for 'gain of factor' research) and the way the democrats avoided studiously any finger pointing at China throughout the pandemic as well as how their media outlets also avoided doing the same. All these point toward collusion with China. And now with kissinger, sulliven, blinken et al making conciliatory noises towards China is proof of this collusion showing up in public. China always had to have some level of backing in west to carry out this biowarfare on world. Now their collaborators are showing up.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 27 Nov 2020 21:47

Mort Walker wrote:People like Jake Sullivan and Tony Blinken will reach some sort of strategic agreement with China, and in the process will throw India under the strategic bus.

Do you have any policy access to policy doctrine of incoming cabinet to claim that? Policy comments by Blinken in the past several months indicate a strong strategy against China with India as the partner in Indo Pacific.

Dems would be criminally anti national to US interests if they don't take China's challenge to them seriously now. US didn't get to become a superpower by being so superficial as you seem to suggest. China has stated it's goal to be the sole superpower and US will not stand for it, whether Dems or Republicans at the helm.

If they are not sole super power, their dollar economy will collapse. Aka suicide. No US leader will allow that to happen. XI forced it by his premature revealation of his global hegemonistic strategy.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 27 Nov 2020 22:20

Just heard the news about the assassination of of Fakhrizadeh (one of the top nuclear scientist some times called "father of Iran's nuclear program) in Tehran. IMO not a good news for India- US relations .. Killing a old and fairly known scientist at this time will have NO effect to stop any nuclear bomb(s) they may be planning to make and it will make it extremely difficult to bring Iran *back* in the nuclear deal.

vimal · Post by **vimal** » 27 Nov 2020 23:36

Amber G. wrote:Just heard the news about the assassination of of Fakhrizadeh (one of the top nuclear scientist some times called "father of Iran's nuclear program) in Tehran. IMO not a good news for India- US relations .. Killing a old and fairly known scientist at this time will have NO effect to stop any nuclear bomb(s) they may be planning to make and it will make it extremely difficult to bring Iran *back* in the nuclear deal.

Are you serious? Iran is not Bharat's friend let them deal with their mess. This does not affect us in any way.

vimal · Post by **vimal** » 27 Nov 2020 23:50

Mort Walker wrote:People like Jake Sullivan and Tony Blinken will reach some sort of strategic agreement with China, and in the process will throw India under the strategic bus.

Biden has the been one of the strongest proponent of "peaceful rise of China". They've been doing this for decades starting from Nixon era.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 28 Nov 2020 00:49

Its time US (& EU) realised that they created a monster since they brought China into WTO hoping that China would democratise but got drugged by the cheap goods they produce and ended up giving CCP a free run for over 3 decades. During this time they have decimated large swaths of domestic mfg capability, skills and technical knowhow and now they can't wean themselves off of China. All this human rights talk is BS and India should be smart and treat it as such.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 28 Nov 2020 01:52

Amber G. wrote:Just heard the news about the assassination of of Fakhrizadeh (one of the top nuclear scientist some times called "father of Iran's nuclear program) in Tehran. IMO not a good news for India- US relations .. Killing a old and fairly known scientist at this time will have NO effect to stop any nuclear bomb(s) they may be planning to make and it will make it extremely difficult to bring Iran *back* in the nuclear deal.

Five Iranian physicists have been assassinated in the last 10 years.

1. Mohsen Fakhrizadeh - Iran Physics Research Center, 27 NOV 2020
2. Masoud Alimohammadi - quantum field theory, 12 JAN 2010
3. Majid Shahriari - quantum theory neutron transport, 29 NOV 2010
4. Darioush Rezaeinejad - 23 JUL 2011
5. Mostafa Ahmadi Roshan - 11 JAN 2012

There's a pattern here. Obama and Biden have conspired with Mossad for these assassinations. American politicians will smile and lie through their teeth.

V_Raman · Post by **V_Raman** » 28 Nov 2020 02:11

India cant depend on America to fight for Indian interests. We have recognized the threats and the asymmetry of goods vs services access in all these regional groupings. It is up to us to fix it. USA is in the same boat too - they want countries to open up their services sectors - finance/bank/insurance - and wherever they dont get access - trade imbalance is the result. Our interests align there...

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 28 Nov 2020 02:33

^^^However, India can not tolerate interference in its internal affairs. That's a big problem. Everything else can be managed. The US has directly and indirectly given rise to BIF over the decades. The least, not zero, amount of internal interference has come in the last 4 years.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 28 Nov 2020 05:18

Amber G. wrote:Just heard the news about the assassination of of Fakhrizadeh (one of the top nuclear scientist some times called "father of Iran's nuclear program) in Tehran. IMO not a good news for India- US relations .. Killing a old and fairly known scientist at this time will have NO effect to stop any nuclear bomb(s) they may be planning to make and it will make it extremely difficult to bring Iran *back* in the nuclear deal.
Are you serious? Iran is not Bharat's friend let them deal with their mess. This does not affect us in any way.

Yes, I am serious. This is NOT a good news, and seeing from a weird Trump tweet, to me, it is scorch earth policy to light as many fires as possible to make things hard for the new US admin, India and world in general.

I do not know how much some here know (or do not know) about the background but I think I do know this subject. I know what I am saying is not the narrative popular in BRF but I am still taking time to put some of my thoughts here. I have zero interest in a debate or back and forth so I may respond to genuine questions but will ignore pointless comments.

Some back ground (specifically related to how it is relevant to India/US relations and world in general). Please do read it (also please also consult reputable sources if you want to get more details).

1 - As I mentioned Dr. Ernest Moniz and Dr. Arun Majumdar are key advisers for Biden/Harris admin and likely to get important position like DoE. Please do see my earlier post.
2. - Dr. Ernest Moniz is a MIT nuclear physicist - (my field5). Dr Majumdar, an IIT alum, came to US for higher studies around the same time as me is also quite respected. Among other things, he was, IIRC was on staff with DoE secretary Steven Chu (Nobel Prize - Obama's admin) and highly respected as a scientist.
3. This is no surprise that people like me were very happy to see things getting back to normal and these positions are again being occupied by real scientists and not clowns like Perry.
4. - People like Dr Majumdar have *extremely* good relationship with not only scientific community in India, but also with the Government of Modi.
5 - In 60's - Iran had quite a fairly good relationship with India and also with US - many good Iranian students were in IIT and many were studying, including nuclear physics in India. I knew many such students in USA.
6 - Dr. Salehi was one of such student. He was in MIT - grad student in Nuclear Physics - around the same time as Dr. Moniz (who was a prof). MIT of course, also had quite a few Indian grad students too.
7 - Dr. Salehi went on to became the head of AEOI and later Foreign Minister etc of Iran - and most trusted aide of Iranian leadership. Dr. Salehi is still highly respected with credibility with scientific circle in US and India.
8 - As all know relationship between US and Iran went bad to worse - I remember, US state dept will not allow Dr. Salehi to deliver lecture in MIT even when the guy was in NY in UN meeting.
9. - Many assassinations of Iranian scientists (many which were simply not helpful) did not help the situation.
10. - In Obama's second term - Moniz (especially sought out because at that time Salehi got pretty high up in Iran) became point person in Obama's admin for the chief negotiator.
11 - In early meetings - Moniz took got some toys/T-shirts from MIT store with MIT logo for Salehi's grand kids. He was especially touched (as Salehi was never able to go out side NYT even when he visited UN).
12 - The nuclear deal worked out - Win Win for not only US but also the whole world including India. Netanyahu (and Trump later) were one of the few people who did not like it.
---
Biden/Harris team - (and the most of the world - including India) will like to get back to items like Iran deal (and other items like Paris Accord which India supports too).
Sorry for the long post but this is why most of us are concerned.

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 28 Nov 2020 05:36

@Amber saar,
Very interesting stuff about Salehi. But to come to the point - what exactly is our stake in whether the Iran deal happens or not? Apart from the facts that an Iran that is not sanctioned will probably not put all eggs in the China basket, and that we may once again be able to buy the Iranian crude [to which many of our refineries were attuned], I don't see a lot of benefits for India. I have probably missed some stuff, but can you please elucidate why you think the Iran deal is important to us [that India supports that deal is a secondary point, really - we support a lot of stuff in which we have no real stake]?

m_saini · Post by **m_saini** » 28 Nov 2020 06:19

Yes, I'd also like to know why Iran nuclear deal is a win-win for the whole world including India. This was not covered in the background provided.

Iranian students studying in IITs and a good working relaionship between scientists don't seem like particularly great benefits, or benefits at all.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 28 Nov 2020 06:22

]

KJo wrote:
Amber G. wrote:[size=50I am very pleased and impressed by seeing highly qualified, experienced people of integrity chosen for Biden-Harris Cabinet positions.
The Biden-Harris transition team, at the same time, is also the most diverse.
I am glad that it has over 20 eminent Indian Americans from different walks of life. By any measure this is historic.
Happy to see many familiar and well known names (including fellow IIT alums .) I hope Dr. Majumdar gets Cabinet post (Energy) though I will be equally happy if Dr Moniz gets it.
Especially happy to notice, quite a few people in India's leadership - especially critical important place, too happens to be very respected scientists (eg - DST) who are able to do good work.

Here is some background on some of the Indians Americans in the Biden-Harris Transition team:
For First Time in US History, Biden-Harris Transition Team Includes over 20 Eminent Indian Americans
[/size]

Yes, but it is better to wait and watch before we start rejoicing just by reading their names.
We don't want another Bobby Jindal or that woman from Washington state. Some (leftist) Hindus are more poisonous to India/Hindus (unlike Muslims who always push for the Islamic cause like Sadiq Khan etc) so it's better we wait and watch these people. I was hoping for Tulsi Gabbard to find a spot.

I think it is not exactly " start rejoicing " by *merely* reading their names.

We know these people and have actively lobbied for them so are happy to see these names and (hopefully) trend continue.
I have *never* seen so much interest from desi crowd, even from the people who were not political in the past - some donating as much as $100K - who never considered donating to political cause before. Looks like people are concerned about their kids and grand kids future after disaster of 4 years of Trump.
From what I know (or at least hope) people who are already in congress (like Tulsi Gabbard, Sanders, Warren) will not likely to be considered for Cabinet posts. What I see at least up till now experience and qualification counts. Even some of the good people fired by Trump (but technically respected) or Republicans may find a place.

Long road ahead.

Y I Patel · Post by **Y I Patel** » 28 Nov 2020 06:26

100% agree with AmberG's post - everyone should be horrified by this assassination. The Iran Nuclear Accord was good for the entire world, and made India's strategic calculus a lot easier in Afghanistan and the middle east. Trump has quite unnecessarily driven Iran into the arms of China and Russia, and in his waning days he is making a huge irreversible mess. This will have implications for an India that is looking for closer partnerships in the middle east and with Israel without reducing relations with the different players to a zero sum game.

V_Raman · Post by **V_Raman** » 28 Nov 2020 06:37

India has no path in ME being friendly with Iran - our investments/people are in the Sunni world and we will be friendly with Iran?? - not going to work!! Israel is also aligning with the sunni world - so our choice is made for us...

I dont think we can block USA from doing what it does - we have no choice but to work with them.

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 28 Nov 2020 06:54

Y I Patel wrote:100% agree with AmberG's post - everyone should be horrified by this assassination. The Iran Nuclear Accord was good for the entire world, and made India's strategic calculus a lot easier in Afghanistan and the middle east. Trump has quite unnecessarily driven Iran into the arms of China and Russia, and in his waning days he is making a huge irreversible mess. This will have implications for an India that is looking for closer partnerships in the middle east and with Israel without reducing relations with the different players to a zero sum game.

Can we, or should we forget how some of our atomic and rocket scientists died mysteriously? Especially before the first Prithvi and Agni missile launch?

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 28 Nov 2020 07:11

Amber G. wrote:We know these people and have actively lobbied for them so are happy to see these names and (hopefully) trend continue.
I have *never* seen so much interest from desi crowd, even from the people who were not political in the past - some donating as much as $100K - who never considered donating to political cause before. Looks like people are concerned about their kids and grand kids future after disaster of 4 years of Trump.

Once again, I'm not sure I quite I understand how does that impact Indo-US relations or Indian interests for better.

Amber G. wrote:Long road ahead.

..is right. Which direction,when it comes to Indo-US relations remains to be seen.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 28 Nov 2020 08:11

but can you please elucidate why you think the Iran deal is important to us [that India supports that deal is a secondary point, really - we support a lot of stuff in which we have no real stake]?

Folks: If you interested about the Iran's nuclear deal and how it effects India/US/world and how this assassination complicates everything .. seriously suggest do some reading.. (Hint: It's not really that complicated .. India supported the deal *very* enthusiastically and wasn't happy at all when Trump pulled out from the deal making things *very* bad for India's interest.. India/Iran business interest - Modi' Govt big interest - in no secret).

Similarly how IIT's are of benefits (or no benefits)..not interested in the debate.. my point was some sharing of info.

@Y I Patel: From the reaction I am seeing - from top US officials - the things looks bad, hope cooler heads prevail in Iran and things do not accelerate locally which will effect India and neighbors. Lot of speculation etc.

Meanwhile another name is floating - Cindy McCain (John McCain's wife) is being considered for a position (may be UK ambassador).

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 28 Nov 2020 08:16

Iran is not a natural or logical friend of Bharat. In fact no Islamic nation is our natural and logical friend. It takes anti-Bharat stance whenever it is possible now. For all the help we have given to them during the sanctions, they have forgotten the moment the sanctions were lifted and started acting"smart".

If anyone thinks that Iran does not have an active weapons program are living in a fool's paradise. Any nuke with an Islamic state is a nuke that will be used on kaffirs like us. Period.

So if the US takes any action on Iran we need to ensure our interests in that Port and other infra we created are protected. That is all.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 28 Nov 2020 08:27

I don't see how allowing Iran to have nuclear weapons helps anything. But willing to be persuaded otherwise.

Y I Patel · Post by **Y I Patel** » 28 Nov 2020 08:41

Regarding the positive trajectory of India-US relations during the Trump administration, I give (roughly) 60% credit to India, 30% credit to China, and 10% credit to Anti-China hawks in the USA. Trump had absolutely nothing to do with whatever is currently positive between India and USA. It is to India's credit that it invested the political capital in keeping the relationship from getting derailed by Trump's shenanigans. Trump's administration did almost no heavy lifting in the relationship, and in fact took several measures that were heavily against India's interests - notably pandering to Pakistan in order to get a peace deal in Afghanistan and of course killing the huge Iran nuclear deal. Make no mistake, Trump was not anti-China, and all the noise was to secure a good deal. Covid put paid to Trump's presidency, and with that any residual appetite he had to burnish his legacy as the president who stood up to China (China had his number, just like India did - both new how to stroke him; India was better and at least got sweet talk out of him in spite of rubbing 370 repeal and CAA in Trump's face.)

So yes, I feel comfortable about where India-US relations are now headed. If India could make it work with Trump, it will be a piece of cake with Biden.

PS
I am not very optimistic on Biden being able to revive the Iran deal. He will much rather spend the political capital elsewhere. That's what makes this current steps by Trump so malign. It will harden to a point of no return, just as it has with North Korea. Iran will get nuclear weapons, at least the treaty would have verifiably delayed them to a point in the future where other measures would have worked to achieve a long term solution acceptable to all parties.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 28 Nov 2020 08:51

vera_k wrote:I don't see how allowing Iran to have nuclear weapons helps anything. But willing to be persuaded otherwise.

Pointing out the obvious (sorry if it is being repeated): The international deal with Iran (which Trump broke) had safe-guards that Iran *will* NOT produce any weapons - in return of removing sanctions and allow it to use the technology *only* for energy purposes. Virtually *all* (except Netanyahu which did not carry much weight for IAEA and Europe etc) till Trump admin came in US. Trump went back on the deal (thus making most European allays and India unhappy). Without the safe guards Iran can go back on the deal and start using their centrifuges again.

----
Slightly OT but for those who understand nuclear technology - the "safe-guards" agreed by Iran would *not* have allowed Iran to keep producing separating U235. (More than just trusting people's words - it allowed inspections which were quite satisfactory)..

The person who got killed (Mohsen Fakhrizadeh) was not (at least officially) working on weapons design - his project AMAD was shutdown in 2003 (with IAEA's blessing etc) but Netanyahu insisted that he was still involved in secret..

Y I Patel · Post by **Y I Patel** » 28 Nov 2020 09:03

Moving on to more positive thoughts, I am very pleased at how India has started setting the tenor of the relationship for the next four years - I point to PM Modi's congratulatory phone call to Biden where they talked about cooperation in clean energy/climate change and health (COVID vaccine). These talking points are no coincidence, they come from an accurate reading and projection of where Biden will be able to make his biggest moves. India is no longer passively waiting for some pro-Kashmir/pro-Pak retard to make the first move to define the path forward. Excellent show of proactive leadership by PM Modi and the Min of External Affairs.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 28 Nov 2020 09:16

Y I Patel wrote:Moving on to more positive thoughts, I am very pleased at how India has started setting the tenor of the relationship for the next four years - I point to PM Modi's congratulatory phone call to Biden where they talked about cooperation in clean energy/climate change and health (COVID vaccine). These talking points are no coincidence, they come from an accurate reading and projection of where Biden will be able to make his biggest moves. India is no longer passively waiting for some pro-Kashmir/pro-Pak retard to make the first move to define the path forward. Excellent show of proactive leadership by PM Modi and the Min of External Affairs.

100% Agree. Modi's handing of Trump, brings a new respect on how to handle such people. To deal with Biden admin would be much more productive. The current Min of External Affairs is quite good. On top of agenda would be clean energy, Pandemic and terrorism. .. And then of course, digital-communications - (5G etc), quantum computing, Science (LIGO etc)..India does not need advice how to handle CAA, article 370 and a few people who may talk about it are not going to get any traction in the real world.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 28 Nov 2020 09:26

We are kidding ourselves if Biden has anything close to independence about any major international or internal policy. The establishment popped him up. The establishment will dictate him. One of the major policy reset will be the improvement of the "relationship" with China. As I have already posted before Jihadi loving PC BS gangs and SJWs will be given full freedom as there will not be any economic benefit for the needy American citizens and peoples mind space needed to be filled up something which establishment can control.

Just see what it all will mean to the relationship between Bharat and US.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 28 Nov 2020 09:40

Geez....That dead Qassim Soleimani’s greatest relief must have been not going to MIT. Or else he too would not have been spared of any tears, all on behalf of India.

Ask any person from India who are posted in Iran and they will tell you how they are reminded every five minutes about the sack of Delhi by Nadir Shah, even though our view is “y’all look alike” when it comes to medieval islamic invasions. Such is their institutional braggadocio about how awesome a nation they are. They always were after the bomb and they will get there. The minute US allowed the pakis the bomb, it was a given that the west is in grave danger since the Battle of Vienna, as copycats like Iran will follow. The danger is far from over

And Biden, unless he was nodding off, must have known all that. Because while college bum-chum level talks in dark rooms are going on, this was what was actually happening:

Link

The NYT reporter, David Sanger, says his U.S. government sources told him that the program responsible for Stuxnet, code named “Olympic Games,” was initiated in 2006 at the behest of former president George W. Bush, but has since been championed by Barack Obama. These sources told Sanger that Obama “decided to step up cyber-attacks on Iran’s Natanz enrichment facility, even after the existence of the worm became public in 2010 after it leaked out onto the Internet.”

On that note, it seem Iran’s greatest millstone seem to be their MIT guys compared to similar dodgy countries

Stuxnet, IIRC, was inserted into Nantaz facility by a western educated chap, who was turned. Contrast that to others: Pakis seem to have progressed well with just a xerox operator. No MIT grads there, just POTUS after POTUS nodding off while Dan Burton made money. And the North Koreans seem to have first-rate faceless guys who work on large diameter solid motors rather than visit NYC to give speeches in exchange for college hoodies and other merchandise.

I think American Big Science is getting too excited about upcoming gravy train (unshackled from an unpleasant businessman’s unpleasant questions about RoI for American taxpayers) and dribbling nag-oil in our eyes. India had its share of dead scientists that no one talks about.

Y I Patel · Post by **Y I Patel** » 28 Nov 2020 09:50

^^^
I don't think the outrage at the assassination comes out of any sympathy for Iran. The whole thrust is on the impact of this assassination on the Iran nuclear deal. Again, make no mistake - no one in USA wants Iran to have nuclear weapons, and a lot of people in USA looked at the deal as a legal and verifiable means of slowing Iran down. The angst is that the assassination will harden Iran's will and close off remaining avenues to reviving the deal. The deal is objectively in India's interests because India does not want a nuclear bomb in Iran but does want to be able to deal with Iran due to larger interests. Reviving the peace treaty would have enabled India to resume a lot of currently suspended initiatives with Iran because India does not want relations with Iran at the cost of relations with USA, Israel and Arab countries.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 28 Nov 2020 09:55

India has show remarkable clarity and independent thought on Iran - chabahar got dragged by Iran and India signed up on sanctions. Not before that. The ball was always in Iran’s court with things like “don’t bring in your assassjnation games to Delhi” etc.

US opinion never seem to have mattered except as leverage with Iran’s stubborn leaders and relations with Gulf/Israel has always been separate parallel tracks since decades.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 28 Nov 2020 11:05

Y I Patel wrote:100% agree with AmberG's post - everyone should be horrified by this assassination. The Iran Nuclear Accord was good for the entire world, and made India's strategic calculus a lot easier in Afghanistan and the middle east. Trump has quite unnecessarily driven Iran into the arms of China and Russia, and in his waning days he is making a huge irreversible mess. This will have implications for an India that is looking for closer partnerships in the middle east and with Israel without reducing relations with the different players to a zero sum game.

This conveniently ignores the fact these assassinations were done in conjunction with the Israelis during the Obama administration. This particular assassination looks more like an outreach understanding between the incoming administration officials and Israeli intelligence. It's back to business as usual. The Israelis were trying to goad Trump into attacking Iran, so much so, that Trump started asking around and it made the news.

If India had knocked off AQ Khan and Pak scientific establishment in the 1990s, the same US officials would have condemned India. In the meantime, Pakistan and China are attempting to pass nuclear weapons materials to the Saudis.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 28 Nov 2020 11:07

We know these people and have actively lobbied for them so are happy to see these names and (hopefully) trend continue.
I have *never* seen so much interest from desi crowd, even from the people who were not political in the past - some donating as much as $100K - who never considered donating to political cause before. Looks like people are concerned about their kids and grand kids future after disaster of 4 years of Trump.

Some people will sell their mothers for self advancement. More power to them.

m_saini · Post by **m_saini** » 28 Nov 2020 11:33

hnair wrote: And Biden, unless he was nodding off, must have known all that. Because while college bum-chum level talks in dark rooms are going on, this was what was actually happening:

On that note, it seem Iran’s greatest millstone seem to be their MIT guys compared to similar dodgy countries Stuxnet, IIRC, was inserted into Nantaz facility by a western educated chap, who was turned. Contrast that to others: Pakis seem to have progressed well with just a xerox operator. No MIT grads there, just POTUS after POTUS nodding off while Dan Burton made money. And the North Koreans seem to have first-rate faceless guys who work on large diameter solid motors rather than visit NYC to give speeches in exchange for college hoodies and other merchandise.

I think American Big Science is getting too excited about upcoming gravy train (unshackled from an unpleasant businessman’s unpleasant questions about RoI for American taxpayers) and dribbling nag-oil in our eyes.

+1008

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 28 Nov 2020 13:41

I don't know why people are surprised by US actions against Iran whether assassination of their General or nuclear scientists. Short of an overt war, US must have promised a lot to punish Iran and perhaps to a smaller extent, Turkey, in order to get Arab states to establish diplomatic relationship with Israel.

Pakis could have made this worse for India by aligning with US and Arabs in exchange for economic and military aid. Due to jihadi Imran India is spared that trouble and instead while India lost Iran to China's ambit, the OIC is now in support of India and Pakistan's gravy train from Gulf has stopped.

It's a net neutral if not net positive for India. In fact even if Iran US deal is revived, Iran would extract lot of concessions from India for operationalising the port there. They would pit China against India. The Trump calculation in middle East suits India just fine. Nobody wants a nuclear powered Iran, which would force Saudi to go nuclear.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 28 Nov 2020 15:06

No one in the world wants one more Islamic Bomb state. Be it Shia one or Sunni one. Pakis have already created a lot of headaches in the world.

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 28 Nov 2020 16:39

hnair wrote:India has show remarkable clarity and independent thought on Iran - chabahar got dragged by Iran and India signed up on sanctions. Not before that. The ball was always in Iran’s court with things like “don’t bring in your assassjnation games to Delhi” etc.

US opinion never seem to have mattered except as leverage with Iran’s stubborn leaders and relations with Gulf/Israel has always been separate parallel tracks since decades.

Nairji
The Shias outside India are more rabidly anti-India/Hindu than the ones residing in India.
In India they tend to side with the dharmic just to spite the Sunni's (a la Enemy of an enemy is my friend)
Eyrans 'Chabhar' gambit has failed and probably the Govt has written off the ONGC etc losses from the failure to develop gas fields there
Modiji has learnt that in the long run the Arapic my-baaps of the 'Abduls' are better to deal with than the eyranians.
If the deal is not resuscitated will it ever lead to a situation of : Turkey/China/Pak/Iran regardless of the Shia/Sunni divide.
Will it then be a situation of being caught between 'The Rock and the Hard place' for us!!

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 28 Nov 2020 21:18

Is it US or is it china that dictates who gets a nuke next? US would most likely be playing prevent chinese from providing the next one and chinese making US run from door to door.

Mollick.R · Post by **Mollick.R** » 30 Nov 2020 12:17

Mort Walker wrote:
We know these people and have actively lobbied for them so are happy to see these names and (hopefully) trend continue.
I have *never* seen so much interest from desi crowd, even from the people who were not political in the past - some donating as much as $100K - who never considered donating to political cause before. Looks like people are concerned about their kids and grand kids future after disaster of 4 years of Trump.
Some people will sell their mothers for self advancement. More power to them.

+1118

m_saini wrote:
hnair wrote: And Biden, unless he was nodding off, must have known all that. Because while college bum-chum level talks in dark rooms are going on, this was what was actually happening:

On that note, it seem Iran’s greatest millstone seem to be their MIT guys compared to similar dodgy countries Stuxnet, IIRC, was inserted into Nantaz facility by a western educated chap, who was turned. Contrast that to others: Pakis seem to have progressed well with just a xerox operator. No MIT grads there, just POTUS after POTUS nodding off while Dan Burton made money. And the North Koreans seem to have first-rate faceless guys who work on large diameter solid motors rather than visit NYC to give speeches in exchange for college hoodies and other merchandise.

I think American Big Science is getting too excited about upcoming gravy train (unshackled from an unpleasant businessman’s unpleasant questions about RoI for American taxpayers) and dribbling nag-oil in our eyes.
+1008

+1118

Reg. democrats
In 2017 Barack Hussein Obama started farting on religious tolerance etc etc on India itself & even before the paneer malai kofta (served during dinner party hosted by GOI) was digested in his stomach. Trump may be called whatever, but the guy avoided giving any gyaan on how to manage our internal affairs like Art 370 or CAA. This matters even more when whole of BIF gang has put full force display of strength in form of Shaheen Bagh & Delhi Riots during his India visit (and subsequent period after that).
How many Billion USD Trump has sanctioned from US treasury to Pkais for being a reliable partner in war against terrorism ? How Many AARAMS he has allowed to be given to Pakis for fighting Talibani Air Force ???

NRI Elites may have their own preferences but experience with democrats on many fronts is bitter.

Shanmukh wrote: Very interesting stuff about Salehi. But to come to the point - what exactly is our stake in whether the Iran deal happens or not? Apart from the facts that an Iran that is not sanctioned will probably not put all eggs in the China basket,

m_saini wrote:Yes, I'd also like to know why Iran nuclear deal is a win-win for the whole world including India. This was not covered in the background provided. Iranian students studying in IITs and a good working relationship between scientists don't seem like particularly great benefits, or benefits at all.

+108
Reg Iran Nuclear Deal/ Nuclear Embargo
As few senior poster already put forward, Iran is just biggggggggg time SnakeaLeons (Snake + Chameleon). They were all goody goody and bhai bhai with Bharat till there was US sanction on them. We kept purchasing their oil through backdoor mechanisms (Deferred payment through escrow account, barter trade etc etc) given them oxygen to survive. But as usual to the nature of umma and Taqiya pasand nation immediately after US sanctions were lifted , they were flush with some cash or prospect of having more of it all of its commitments and bhaichara was thrown to the depth of Persian Gulf.

Now starting from Chabahar port to gas & oil fields to OCGC we are being facing their Taqiyas and blackmails. Too much of arrogancy & playing over smart for a nation surviving on hand to mouth, suffering from chronic hyperinflation and can't even provide basic medicines to its dying children.

For bharat Ideal condition for Iran is (& I'm borrowing it from Ajeet) :-
"Ajeet: Rawbert! Is pille ko liquid oxygen me daal do. Liquid ise jeene nahi dega, aur oxygen ise marne nahi dega."
Keep the buggers under stringent sanctions with hope of its removal & occessional carrots thrown to them.

Last but not least, NRI elites may have high personal expectations from Biden administration, as such we all know the gravy trains were quite dry during Trump era, but that doesn't means we will premature gaga on Bidenwaa.

PS:-
The word came out of heart from a mango abdul who have "forgotten to solve 3rd order differential equation", neither he is worthy enough for the Brahmastra of the elites "You don't know how science is done" taunt.

Pranaams.

vimal · Post by **vimal** » 03 Dec 2020 10:59

Senate passes S.386, giving ray of hope for Indian nationals in Green Card backlog

https://www.americanbazaaronline.com/20 ... og-443310/

Before people forget:

1. Trump was the president when it passed. For some reason desis always like to (incorrectly) remember and give credit to Dems.
2. It had been blocked for years now by Dick Durbin a democratic senator from Illinois.
3. Senate (mostly Durbin) has forced a lot of changes (poison pill) that needs reconciliation with the house bill. This will be a long and painful process.
4. Democrats inserted a clause in the recent stimulus bill that would've made overflow of family green cards to employment based greencards impossible. Luckily, the stimulus bill failed and lots of Indians got Green cards.
5. Dems removed the H4 category kids from DALCA bill and left them on their own while blocking employment based immigration.