Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

sankum · Post by **sankum** » 08 Jan 2021 16:28

HAL special issue

https://www.aeromag.in/Magazines/9848624845.pdf

Dr GIRISH SHANTARAM DEODHARE
PGD(CA) & Director,
Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA)

For ADA, the thrust of Aero India 2021 is to showcase the future technologies. Final configurations of AMCA and Tejas Mk. 2 will be showcased as well as the initial concept of TEDBF. The futuristic cockpits of AMCA and Tejas Mk. 2 will also be on display

The Operational Requirements for TEDBF have already been issued and flight testing is planned to commence from 2025-26.

The vision for ADA now is to achieve complete self reliance for combat aircraft (both Airforce and Naval) by 2035. Tejas Mk. 2 is planned to be rolled out by 2022 with start of induction by 2026. AMCA Mk. 1 is planned for roll out by 2024 with induction by 2031. AMCA Mk. 2 with advanced engine is planned to be inducted by 2035. TEDBF is planned to be rolled out by 2025 to be ready for induction by 2031.

AMCA is India’s ambitious 5th/ 6th Generation aircraft program. The feasibility studies of AMCA were completed in 2015. In 2019, IAF gave a formal go ahead for development of AMCA in two phases. AMCA Mk. 1 would be developed with an existing engine while AMCA Mk. 2 would have an advanced indigenous engine. Moreover, AMCA Mk. 2 would have 6th Generation capabilities. Today, the AMCA configuration has been frozen along with the architecture of all the systems. Detailed design has commenced and roll out is planned in 2024.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Jan 2021 22:44

Timelines match what I heard too and everyone signed up for this.

The vision for ADA now is to achieve complete self reliance for combat aircraft (both Airforce and Naval) by 2035. Tejas Mk. 2 is planned to be rolled out by 2022 with start of induction by 2026. AMCA Mk. 1 is planned for roll out by 2024 with induction by 2031. AMCA Mk. 2 with advanced engine is planned to be inducted by 2035. TEDBF is planned to be rolled out by 2025 to be ready for induction by 2031.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Jan 2021 22:50

Aditya_V wrote:Realistically, how I hope all the 18 Trainer from 32 LCA MK1 are delivered by Jan 2024 before MK1A enters service. So 2019-24. Operational 53 LCA + 36 Rafale + 24 SU-30 and 21 MIG 29- these will be IAF inductions on the 5 year time frame plus M-2000 and MIG 29 fully upgraded.

Out of the above 8 Rafale, 12 Su 30 and some 20 LCA are operational - So IAF will probably induct 28Rafale+33 LCA+12 Su-30 +21 Mig 29=94 aircraft over the next 3 years.

IAF probably has what 8 Rafales, 265 SU 30, 59 Mig 29, 44 M-2000, 110 Jags, 120 Bisions and 20 LCA ~ 606 - given 80% availibility in war thats 480 aircraft against the Chinese and Pakis.

One feels we need a concerted 10 years of rapid Domestic inductions to eliminate 1 of these threats.

The Mk1A fuselages are same as Mk1?
If so they can keep building that till the Mk1A getts validated.
Can someone put a table comparing the changes from Mk1 to Mk1A?

Aditya_V most likely the trainers will be built on the half-line at Bengluru. That way dont interrupt the production flow.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Jan 2021 23:42

srai wrote:

Pretty good ground firing.
Do we know the Y-axis for the Gs? 0, 50, 100?
The reason is there was a design spectrum shared long ago.
So want to estimate how much margin they have?
For this trial have they released the target picture?
Last time there were different diameter circles for the right and the left barrel showing some mounting stiffness variation.

Next we need to see aerial trials for gun eject gas ingestion which has been a bug bear.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Jan 2021 09:12

Whats HEAB Mk11N?

ernest · Post by **ernest** » 10 Jan 2021 00:10

ramana wrote:Whats HEAB Mk11N?

I'm guessing "High Explosive Air Burst" dumb bombs; locally manufactured?

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 10 Jan 2021 11:54

Several LRUs development for the MK2 is still in tender stage. Even with the impossible time line of 18 months to qualification of those LRUs, how can there be a rollout in 2022? More like 2025 the way I see it.

Answering an earlier question: I was banned for celebrating the Modi victory the 'mallu way'.

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 10 Jan 2021 12:28

https://twitter.com/ajaynewsman/status/ ... 97280?s=20 ---> Finally, proposal to make 83 Tejas Mk1A, made by HAL, is headed to CCS for approval. Costing some $5.1 billion these will be using a GE engine.

https://twitter.com/neeraj_rajput/statu ... 40385?s=20 ---> IAF deal for 83 LCA MK1A can be inked this month even before Aero India show (3-5th Feb) as proposal has been sent to CCS for final approval.

https://twitter.com/neeraj_rajput/statu ... 12672?s=20 ---> HAL target is to hand over first LCA Mk1A by 2022 and all 83 by 2029.

Cabinet panel to take call on upgraded Tejas
https://m.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/ ... jas-196287
10 Jan 2021

csharma · Post by **csharma** » 10 Jan 2021 13:36

When will the Tejas FOC version fighters be produced. Looks like it is going super slow

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 11 Jan 2021 07:26

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 71329?s=20 ---> Report: Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) to clear $5.1 billion deal for 83 Tejas Mk1A in the coming week. Will have 43 improvements over Tejas Mk1.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 11 Jan 2021 17:10

What a pic!

2 Tejas Mk1s escort a Netra AEW&C

IAF tweet

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 11 Jan 2021 17:33

ramana wrote:Timelines match what I heard too and everyone signed up for this.

The vision for ADA now is to achieve complete self reliance for combat aircraft (both Airforce and Naval) by 2035. Tejas Mk. 2 is planned to be rolled out by 2022 with start of induction by 2026. AMCA Mk. 1 is planned for roll out by 2024 with induction by 2031. AMCA Mk. 2 with advanced engine is planned to be inducted by 2035. TEDBF is planned to be rolled out by 2025 to be ready for induction by 2031.

this will be a very very fascinating decade when the work of last 2-3 decades of indian scientists will come out in the form of final products at a large scale that will inspire and enthuse the nation!
Thanks to all our scientists who toiled when the entire world including system was against them. I am sure that we have long left the bad blood and past mistakes behind and this decade we will soar. In some ways I see that we are where china was in 2008 or somewhere around that vintage, but just at a better footing!

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 12 Jan 2021 01:14

vivek_ahuja wrote:
Cybaru wrote:Would you know when the actual signing for the 83 MK1A is going to take place?
This close to AI 2021, the signing should be coordinated to match the importance of the event. If AI 2021 goes by and still no signature, then it starts getting embarrassing to continue this wait for signatures.

With the UK Bunta Virus in full swing, cancel the event and sign today.

Bharadwaj · Post by **Bharadwaj** » 13 Jan 2021 16:32

IT IS DONE

https://twitter.com/CNNnews18/status/13 ... 8765424646

Big boost for Indian Airforce, CCS clears Tejas Contract.

mody · Post by **mody** » 13 Jan 2021 16:35

ramana wrote:Timelines match what I heard too and everyone signed up for this.

The vision for ADA now is to achieve complete self reliance for combat aircraft (both Airforce and Naval) by 2035. Tejas Mk. 2 is planned to be rolled out by 2022 with start of induction by 2026. AMCA Mk. 1 is planned for roll out by 2024 with induction by 2031. AMCA Mk. 2 with advanced engine is planned to be inducted by 2035. TEDBF is planned to be rolled out by 2025 to be ready for induction by 2031.

Ramana sir, I highly doubt these timelines. The Tejas MK1A production run for the 73 planes plus the 10 trainers is supposed to get done by 2028.
The proposed 2026 induction date for MWF is extremely difficult to meet.

By everyone signing up for this we are unfortunately setting up the stage for higher imports. Instead the order for the MK1A should be increased by 36-37 aircrafts or another 2 squadron worth, along with say a repeat order for 36 Rafael. This would close the whole MMRCA circus show. By restricting the MK1A to only 4 squadrons, not even enough to replace the Mig-27 and Mig-21M/MF/Bis squadrons that have been retired over the last 5-6 years, we are keeping the window open for MMRCA show to continue. New proposals like 100 Rafael to be produced in India with 70% indigenous content etc. etc. will continue to prop up. Next in line will be moving the entire Gripen production line to India, with joint marketing of the plane after meeting IAF requirement or God knows what else.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 13 Jan 2021 16:43

Bharadwaj wrote:IT IS DONE

https://twitter.com/CNNnews18/status/13 ... 8765424646

Big boost for Indian Airforce, CCS clears Tejas Contract.

What next? Another committee? How many loops need to jump thru to get the bleddy PO to HAL?

Somewhere Vidur Ji had listed the stages. Will try to dig it up.

Bharadwaj · Post by **Bharadwaj** » 13 Jan 2021 16:45

Dileep wrote:
Bharadwaj wrote:IT IS DONE

https://twitter.com/CNNnews18/status/13 ... 8765424646

Big boost for Indian Airforce, CCS clears Tejas Contract.
What next? Another committee? How many loops need to jump thru to get the bleddy PO to HAL?

Somewhere Vidur Ji had listed the stages. Will try to dig it up.

Contract will be signed between IAF and HAL at Aero India.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 13 Jan 2021 16:50

mody wrote:By restricting the MK1A to only 4 squadrons, not even enough to replace the Mig-27 and Mig-21M/MF/Bis squadrons that have been retired over the last 5-6 years, we are keeping the window open for MMRCA show to continue

That IS the agenda. Sadly, its the IAF playing truant. Complaining about depleting squadrons on the one hand, while restricting Tejas orders, setting up the stage for their MRCA - a toy that they were once promised. A whip needs to be cracked.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 13 Jan 2021 17:19

Prem Kumar wrote:
mody wrote:By restricting the MK1A to only 4 squadrons, not even enough to replace the Mig-27 and Mig-21M/MF/Bis squadrons that have been retired over the last 5-6 years, we are keeping the window open for MMRCA show to continue
That IS the agenda. Sadly, its the IAF playing truant. Complaining about depleting squadrons on the one hand, while restricting Tejas orders, setting up the stage for their MRCA - a toy that they were once promised. A whip needs to be cracked.

If that were the case then why is the IAF now making pronouncements on acquiring over 170 MWFs? The ball is in ADA and HAL's court, to deliver on time and without perennial schedule slides. Just look at No.18 Squadron- it was re activated and almost 10 months later, they have just 1 Tejas Mk1 FOC fighter handed over to them. Would you blame the IAF for this?

If they can meet their targets and the MWF meets the IAF's requirements, the IAF will more than gladly acquire it while still taking deliveries of Tejas Mk1As.

The MiG-27 squadrons that have gone have been replaced (even if not one on one) by Su-30MKI squadrons that have been added. Then there's the 2 Rafale squadrons as well.

kit · Post by **kit** » 13 Jan 2021 17:33

Kartik wrote:
Prem Kumar wrote:
That IS the agenda. Sadly, its the IAF playing truant. Complaining about depleting squadrons on the one hand, while restricting Tejas orders, setting up the stage for their MRCA - a toy that they were once promised. A whip needs to be cracked.
If that were the case then why is the IAF now making pronouncements on acquiring over 170 MWFs?

The 170 MWFs are likely Tejas Mk 2 s. Its likely as things go, ADA/HAL/DRDO combine could deliver on time with increased funds., also there are not many contenders for MWF that looks at near 5 gen capabilities other than Rafale., which almost certainly will NOT happen looking at the current costs of acquisition. Dassault has no plans to come to India in a major way other than making doors or some piece meal orders here and there., despite making noises to the quandary. Their investments are firmly tied to new French assembly lines.The F18 "might" make to the IN but is a big "if" , political considerations are a big play here if the Biden admin starts making noises about CAATSA, they can kiss this thought good bye.

pushkar.bhat · Post by **pushkar.bhat** » 13 Jan 2021 17:35

Bharadwaj wrote:
Dileep wrote:
What next? Another committee? How many loops need to jump thru to get the bleddy PO to HAL?

Somewhere Vidur Ji had listed the stages. Will try to dig it up.
Contract will be signed between IAF and HAL at Aero India.

Damn sign the contract before the Supreme Court gets to know about it..

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 13 Jan 2021 17:44

Bharadwaj wrote:
Dileep wrote:
What next? Another committee? How many loops need to jump thru to get the bleddy PO to HAL?

Somewhere Vidur Ji had listed the stages. Will try to dig it up.
Contract will be signed between IAF and HAL at Aero India.

No can do!! There is MOF and MOD babu approvals needed, as per the procedure.

See this Old Post

Bharadwaj · Post by **Bharadwaj** » 13 Jan 2021 17:48

Dileep wrote:
Bharadwaj wrote:
Contract will be signed between IAF and HAL at Aero India.
No can do!! There is MOF and MOD babu approvals needed, as per the procedure.

See this Old Post

IIRC those have been accorded last year?

nash · Post by **nash** » 13 Jan 2021 18:02

AFAIK MoD -> MoF -> CCS,this is the flow. so, after CCS approval only thing is left which is a formality is signing of contract and it will happen on AI2021.

rohiths · Post by **rohiths** » 13 Jan 2021 18:08

No babu can block a cabinet approval. So it is done

Nitesh · Post by **Nitesh** » 13 Jan 2021 18:09

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 251604.cms

Its here

LakshmanPST · Post by **LakshmanPST** » 13 Jan 2021 18:19

I'm reading that the total price of the deal is 48,000 Cr, up by 9,000 Cr. from earlier 39,000 Cr...
Wonder what else has been included...

srai · Post by **srai** » 13 Jan 2021 18:51

https://www.aeromag.in/Magazines/9848624845.pdf
Page 61

...

According to HAL, the first Tejas Mk.1A will fly by 2022 with serial production starting in 2023. The first squadron of Tejas Mk 1A will be delivered by 2025 and delivery of all 83 aircraft is to be completed before 2029.

...

niran · Post by **niran** » 13 Jan 2021 18:55

LakshmanPST wrote:I'm reading that the total price of the deal is 48,000 Cr, up by 9,000 Cr. from earlier 39,000 Cr...
Wonder what else has been included...

you buy a car you need to spend in RC insurance parking security too na, 39k is for the planes rest for infrastructure logistics training etc.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 13 Jan 2021 18:59

Finally an investment in Indian MIC! Great news!

bharathp · Post by **bharathp** » 13 Jan 2021 19:19

Obviously this has taken a long time (signing of the contract) - but this couldn't come at a better time. while countries like US are trying to inject more "stimulus" into the economy, the monies for the desi MIC will generate so many direct jobs, ancillary jobs, support infra both in capital (long lasting equipment/machine tools) and also operational work (results in jobs/salaries for next 10 years - which will then generate employment for other support work).
this can also be considered our desi stimulus.

Prithwiraj · Post by **Prithwiraj** » 13 Jan 2021 19:20

HAL needs to be careful avoiding any kind of sabotaging effort

Bharadwaj · Post by **Bharadwaj** » 13 Jan 2021 19:33

Cabinet approves Procurement of 83 Light Combat Aircrafts (LCA) ‘Tejas’ from HAL for IAF
https://pib.gov.in/PressReleseDetail.aspx?PRID=1688287

Posted On: 13 JAN 2021 5:25PM by PIB Delhi
The Cabinet met under the Chairmanship of Prime Minister in New Delhi on 13 January and has approved procurement of 73 LCA Tejas Mk-1A fighter aircrafts and 10 LCA Tejas Mk-1 Trainer aircrafts at the cost of Rs. 45,696 Crore along with Design and Development of Infrastructure sanctions worth Rs.1,202 Crore.

Light Combat Aircraft Mk-1A variant is an indigenously designed, developed and manufactured state-of-the-art modern 4+ generation fighter aircraft. This aircraft is equipped with critical operational capabilities of Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) Radar, Beyond Visual Range (BVR) Missile, Electronic Warfare (EW) Suite and Air to Air Refuelling (AAR) would be a potent platform to meet the operational requirements of Indian Air Force, IAF. It is the first “Buy (Indian-Indigenously Designed, Developed and Manufactured)” category procurement of combat aircrafts with an indigenous content of 50% which will progressively reach 60% by the end of the programme.

The Cabinet has also approved infrastructure development by IAF under the project to enable them handle repairs or servicing at their base depot so that the turnaround time would get reduced for mission critical systems and would lead to increased availability of aircraft for operational exploitation. This would enable IAF to sustain the fleet more efficiently and effectively due to availability of repair infrastructure at respective bases.

Under the Atmanirbhar Bharat Abhiyaan, India is continuously growing in its power to indigenously design, develop and manufacture advanced cutting edge technologies and systems in the Defence Sector. The manufacturing of Light Combat Aircraft by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, HAL will give a further push to Atmanirbhar Bharat initiative and boost indigenisation of defence production and the defence industry in the country. About 500 Indian companies including MSMEs in the design and manufacturing sectors will be working with HAL in this procurement. The programme would act as a catalyst for transforming the Indian aerospace manufacturing ecosystem into a vibrant Atmanirbhar-self-sustaining ecosystem.

*****

ABB/ Nampi/KA/Rajib

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 13 Jan 2021 19:38

Rs 48,000 crore landmark deal: India clears purchase of 83 Tejas jets for IAF.

The Cabinet Committee on Security on Wednesday cleared the IAF’s acquisition of 83 Mark-1A Tejas fighters from defence PSU Hindustan Aeronautics for around Rs 48,000 crore, in the biggest-ever deal in the indigenous military aviation sector.

These 83 fighters, the deliveries of which will begin three years after the actual contract is inked (WTF - why do they require 3 years when a system of roll out of Tejas already exist. Are the improvements so earth-shattering that they require 3 years? The babus will be consuming a lot of chai biskoot and claiming TA/DA) in early-February, will have 43 “improvements” over the 40 Tejas Mark-1 already ordered by the IAF.

“This deal will be a game changer for self reliance in the Indian defence manufacturing,” said defence minister Rajnath Singh.

“The Light Combat Aircraft-Tejas is going to be the backbone of the IAF fighter fleet in years to come. LCA-Tejas incorporates a large number of new technologies many of which were never attempted in India. The indigenous content of LCA-Tejas is 50% in Mk1A variant which will be enhanced to 60%,” he added.

“The HAL has already set-up second line manufacturing facilities at its Nasik

and Bengaluru Divisions. Equipped with the augmented infrastructure the HAL will steer LCA-Mk1A production for timely deliveries to the IAF," he said.

The 83 Tejas Mark-1A fighters will have 43 “improvements” to improve maintainability, AESA (active electronically scanned array) radar to replace existing mechanically-steered radar, air-to-air refuelling, long-range BVR (beyond visual range) missiles and advanced electronic warfare to jam enemy radars and missiles.

After these 123 fighters, IAF is also looking to induct 170 Tejas Mark-2 or the MWF (medium weight fighter) jets with more powerful engines and advanced avionics. But IAF is banking upon the first 123 Tejas to add to its fighter squadrons, which is down to just 30 (each has 18 jets) when at least 42 are required for the requisite deterrence against Pakistan and China.[/quote]

Bharadwaj · Post by **Bharadwaj** » 13 Jan 2021 19:46

^^^^^^
You do realise there are suppliers and things like lead times involved? HAL cant place orders for 83 aircraft sets without the money. There is design work to be done too.

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 13 Jan 2021 19:47

A very subdued reaction here. I thought all lungies would be deployed, evil yindoo crackers would have made air black and Admiral would be ready with 6560kg mithai already.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 13 Jan 2021 19:56

CCS has cleared, so when will the contract be signed and why 48000 crores, is it with Elta 2052 or Uttam?

https://theprint.in/defence/govt-clears ... ft/584743/

According to the plan, HAL will deliver 73 Tejas Mk 1A and 10 Tejas Mk 1 trainers by 2026.

The new aircraft comes with four major capabilities over the current variant of LCA, which includes mid-air refuelling, improvement in operational roles, enhancing the combat ability and maintainability improvements through incorporation of Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) Radar, Electronic Warfare (EW) suite and Beyond Visual Range (BVR) missile capabilities.

According to the plan, the first flight of the Tejas Mark 1A will take place by the end of 2022 and the first squadron would be completed by 2024.

kit · Post by **kit** » 13 Jan 2021 19:58

JayS wrote:A very subdued reaction here. I thought all lungies would be deployed, evil yindoo crackers would have made air black and Admiral would be ready with 6560kg mithai already.

Well the foreign maal promoters can go back to the woodworks

. The future is already written on the walls. . and it is Make and Buy Indian.

The investment in its own MIC is a stimulus of its own. Finaaly India doing a china

Nsmith · Post by **Nsmith** » 13 Jan 2021 20:02

Super happy with this news!! T'was delayed by 9-12 months due to the China Virus and its fallout. Now this jingo only wishes that this order was for 183 birds instead of 83. We *need* money to be poured in our desi MIC.

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 13 Jan 2021 20:15

Bharadwaj wrote:^^^^^^
You do realise there are suppliers and things like lead times involved? HAL cant place orders for 83 aircraft sets without the money. There is design work to be done too.

But why 36 months required when all your vendors/suppliers are ready. The design part would have already started when an in principle approval of Tejas Mark 1A happened 2 years ago.

If the First aircarft delivery is in 2024 then there is no way that HAL is going to supply 83 aircrafts by 2026-27 which was the timeline. HAL will complete delivery only in 2029 (that is the earliest) meaning that the Tekas MK2 - AWF will roll out only in 2029-30