Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 13 Jan 2021 20:21

Kartik wrote: If that were the case then why is the IAF now making pronouncements on acquiring over 170 MWFs? The ball is in ADA and HAL's court, to deliver on time and without perennial schedule slides. Just look at No.18 Squadron- it was re activated and almost 10 months later, they have just 1 Tejas Mk1 FOC fighter handed over to them. Would you blame the IAF for this?

Let the IAF openly come out and say that they don't want an MRFA RFP and instead will go local - then I will believe this.

So far, all indications are that they are hell-bent on MRFA - straight from the chief's mouth.

No disagreement with HAL's tardiness. But who's going to foot the MRFA bill + humongous time it will take to downselect & place the order + even if MRFA happens, there will be HAL workshare (which they will be tardy with)

So, I don't see how an MRFA makes sense, whichever way we slice it.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 13 Jan 2021 20:23

Regarding Mk1A deliveries, I think the Trainers are MK1 standard so should be produced by 2024, the 73 single seaters will start delivery from 2024.

Bharadwaj · Post by **Bharadwaj** » 13 Jan 2021 20:39

Vips wrote:
Bharadwaj wrote:^^^^^^
You do realise there are suppliers and things like lead times involved? HAL cant place orders for 83 aircraft sets without the money. There is design work to be done too.
But why 36 months required when all your vendors/suppliers are ready. The design part would have already started when an in principle approval of Tejas Mark 1A happened 2 years ago.

If the First aircarft delivery is in 2024 then there is no way that HAL is going to supply 83 aircrafts by 2026-27 which was the timeline. HAL will complete delivery only in 2029 (that is the earliest) meaning that the Tekas MK2 - AWF will roll out only in 2029-30

Saar vendor being ready does not mean part being ready. It will take time. Only when HAL places an order the vendor can do metal cutting or tape laying start. HAL may have gamed that it will get the contract but I doubt a private company will do the needy till an order is made.

basant · Post by **basant** » 13 Jan 2021 20:59

Delighted with 83 order! Time to prepare for celebration! Hope the order would be placed soon. NUH development on ALH should be the next prayer.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 13 Jan 2021 22:12

CCS Clears Purchase of 83 Tejas Mk1A fighters for Indian Air Force
https://swarajyamag.com/insta/cabinet-c ... -air-force

The Cabinet Committee on Security, chaired by Prime Minister Narendra Modi, has cleared the purchase of 83 Tejas Mark-1A fighters by the Indian Air Force.

A deal for 83 Mark-1A variants of the fighter is likely to be signed with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited next month during the AeroIndia show in Bengaluru.

The Mark-1A variant, which is significantly different from Tejas Mark-1, will be equipped with an Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar.

HAPPY to see this

Ankit Desai · Post by **Ankit Desai** » 13 Jan 2021 22:16

The CCS clearance is for

LCA - 73 MK1A + 10 MK1 Trainer

-Ankit

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 13 Jan 2021 22:18

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/134 ... 25890?s=20 ---> So, that day has finally arrived with the HAL Tejas MK-1A getting CCS Approval. We at Delhi Defence Review of course know just how many hurdles have had to be crossed to get here & I can proudly say that we played a role in making sure this marquee indigenous effort was not sunk.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/134 ... 29188?s=20 ---> However, Purna Swaraj will be achieved only when India has its own homegrown low-bypass turbofan jet engines.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/134 ... 89408?s=20 ---> The Tejas 'dream team' on Delhi Defence Review, who fought this battle with facts, analysis and insight:

@Indrani1_Roy
@nileshjrane
@sriramthg

Not to waste, gentlemen. Not to waste.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 13 Jan 2021 22:20

For all the folks on BRF who were getting takleef with the photo of Prime Minister Modi greeting the arrival of Rafales in July 2020, please see the photo below...

https://twitter.com/Amitraaz/status/134 ... 00641?s=20 ---> The Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) chaired by the Prime Minister Narendra Modi reviewed and formally cleared the ₹39,000 crore procurement deal for 83 Tejas Mk.1A, including 73 single-seat fighters and 10 twin-seat trainers, today in New Delhi.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 13 Jan 2021 22:27

The presstitutes are out to rain on the parade. Burnol and heartburn in full view. Background - This gentleman below wrote an article on why the F-21 represents the best value for the IAF, while the Tejas is not.

The exact same view espoused by Ashley Tellis and the exact same view parroted by a few on BRF.

His tweet has been countered with facts already, so don't bother.

https://twitter.com/YusufDFI/status/134 ... 47299?s=20 ---> 38,000 Cr se 48,000 Cr ho gaya. One LCA to cost 578 Cr = $80 mn.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 13 Jan 2021 22:28

Rakesh wrote:@Indrani1_Roy
@nileshjrane
@sriramthg

BRF is fortunate to have these gentlemen. Thank you guys for everything.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 13 Jan 2021 22:29

Best to ignore naysayers like Yusuf at a time like this. This is a time to celebrate, although I will wait for the contract signing for the full lungi dance.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 13 Jan 2021 22:30

I believe the date is at Aero India 2021 no?

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 13 Jan 2021 22:31

Rakesh wrote:
Rakesh wrote:@Indrani1_Roy
@nileshjrane
@sriramthg
BRF is fortunate to have these gentlemen. Thank you guys for everything.

Indeed. Nilesh and Indranil's article in particular went a long way in combating the false propaganda and deliberate misinformation being peddled in the media about the Tejas, with a view to nixing the whole program.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 13 Jan 2021 22:33

Rakesh wrote:I believe the date is at Aero India 2021 no?

Yes, but I have supreme trust in GoI and baboos' abilities to disappoint us which has been acquired over years of following defence programs. It has made be jaded and pessimistic. Hopefully more such good news will come out soon about other indigenous programs as well and improve my outlook and expectations in the future.

basant · Post by **basant** » 13 Jan 2021 22:34

^^^
+108

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 13 Jan 2021 23:00

From Prime Minister Modi's personal twitter account....
https://twitter.com/narendramodi/status ... 36992?s=20 ---> Today’s Cabinet decision will improve the capabilities of our armed forces, boost the indigenous defence industry and strengthen the movement to create an Aatmanirbhar Bharat.

Cabinet approves Procurement of 83 Light Combat Aircrafts (LCA) ‘Tejas’ from HAL for IAF
https://pib.gov.in/PressReleseDetailm.aspx?PRID=1688287
13 Jan 2021

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 13 Jan 2021 23:27

For those wondering why 36 months: What was the delivery time for first Rafale delivery? From an existing assembly line, same plane, same part manufacturers, only some "India specific changes".

Haridas · Post by **Haridas** » 13 Jan 2021 23:44

Time rejoice

Tejas dance

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 13 Jan 2021 23:45

Rakesh wrote:

Seems HAL is continuing with SP-21, SP-22 ... & only IAF has changed the LA series

https://twitter.com/manishindiatv/statu ... 1181057030

Big-The CCS chaired by PM Narendra Modi today approved the largest indigenous defence procurement deal worth about 48000 Crores to strengthen IAF’s fleet of homegrown fighter jet ‘LCA-Tejas’

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 13 Jan 2021 23:48

Indranil wrote:For those wondering why 36 months: What was the delivery time for first Rafale delivery? From an existing assembly line, same plane, same part manufacturers, only some "India specific changes".

Thank you for this. Have repeated this myself a number of times.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 13 Jan 2021 23:59

It's a good day for the Indian aerospace industry! Congratulations to all who worked on it! Looking forward to deliveries and Mk2 flight.

KSingh · Post by **KSingh** » 14 Jan 2021 00:03

What a way to start 2021!

Absolute kudos to all that made it happen, god the lobbying against it must have been relentless

So contract signature in a few weeks and first unit to be expected from early 2024, over to HAL and it’s partners now, they’ve had plenty of time now to get their ducks in a row. I’m an ardent supporter of theirs but won’t tolerate any excuses now, 83 units isn’t a huge order but it’s the largest single order they’ve every had for a single IDDM product upfront. 36 months for the first unit and 16/year thereafter, no ifs or buts.

One of the lowest hanging fruits now seemingly plucked

LCH
LUH
C295
HTT-40
AWACS(I)

Still on the planning boards, if all are signed for soon the transformative effect on Indian industry simply cannot be overstated. The downstream positives will be immense as the ecosystem grows

Haridas · Post by **Haridas** » 14 Jan 2021 00:18

Lowest hanging fruit is Astra missile integration on Tejas Mk1 that are in hand.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 14 Jan 2021 00:26

https://twitter.com/shreyadhoundial/sta ... 95873?s=20 --->

Breaking : More news on #Tejas.

500 Indian companies will benefit from the Tejas deal which is worth nearly 50,000 crores.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 14 Jan 2021 00:27

https://twitter.com/Indrani1_Roy/status ... 04257?s=20 ---> GoI/IAF has done its job. Ball firmly in HAL's court now. 3 years to first delivery. The clock is ticking and there is no time to breathe. If HAL does its job, I am sure it will see more (export) orders. Meanwhile, Mk1 pipeline has been unclogged. More good news by this weekend.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 14 Jan 2021 00:40

More MK1 orders Admiral sir? Woah!! Jingo khush hua! Indranil, any update on FOC production?

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 14 Jan 2021 00:42

ramana wrote: Pretty good ground firing.
Do we know the Y-axis for the Gs? 0, 50, 100?
The reason is there was a design spectrum shared long ago.
So want to estimate how much margin they have?
For this trial have they released the target picture?
Last time there were different diameter circles for the right and the left barrel showing some mounting stiffness variation.

Next we need to see aerial trials for gun eject gas ingestion which has been a bug bear.

The video is redacted. No quantitative data available.

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 14 Jan 2021 00:54

An article by Ajay Shukla.

https://www.ajaishukla.com/2021/01/cabi ... tejas.html

The sanction of Rs 1,202 crore is for the IAF to develop repair and servicing infrastructure at their base depots “so that the turnaround time would get reduced for mission critical systems and would lead to increased availability of aircraft for operational exploitation,” said the MoD.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 14 Jan 2021 00:59

Vivek K wrote:More MK1 orders Admiral sir? Woah!! Jingo khush hua! Indranil, any update on FOC production?

I am assuming it is increased delivery times for Mk1 orders, but not more Mk1 orders. Will wait for news to come.

srai · Post by **srai** » 14 Jan 2021 01:33

Vips wrote: ...
(WTF - why do they require 3 years when a system of roll out of Tejas already exist. Are the improvements so earth-shattering that they require 3 years? The babus will be consuming a lot of chai biskoot and claiming TA/DA)
...

Have you looked at recent foreign aircraft deals? 36-months lead delivery times is the standard world-over. If you don’t remember, take a look at deals for Rafale, C-17, C-130, AH-64, P-8I and so on...

srai · Post by **srai** » 14 Jan 2021 01:39

Vips wrote:...
If the First aircarft delivery is in 2024 then there is no way that HAL is going to supply 83 aircrafts by 2026-27 which was the timeline. HAL will complete delivery only in 2029 (that is the earliest) meaning that the Tekas MK2 - AWF will roll out only in 2029-30

https://www.aeromag.in/Magazines/9848624845.pdf
Page 61

...

According to HAL, the first Tejas Mk.1A will fly by 2022 with serial production starting in 2023. The first squadron of Tejas Mk 1A will be delivered by 2025 and delivery of all 83 aircraft is to be completed before 2029.

...

Regarding Mk2, it will have its own timelines when that is ready and ordered. It won’t be linearly tied to Mk1A delivery schedule.

srai · Post by **srai** » 14 Jan 2021 01:52

ashishvikas wrote:An article by Ajay Shukla.

https://www.ajaishukla.com/2021/01/cabi ... tejas.html
The sanction of Rs 1,202 crore is for the IAF to develop repair and servicing infrastructure at their base depots “so that the turnaround time would get reduced for mission critical systems and would lead to increased availability of aircraft for operational exploitation,” said the MoD.

There was a big time wastage haggle over Rs 50K crore original HAL price tag which included PBL. It was negotiated down to Rs 39K crore by reducing support elements. With the current announcement of a deal worth Rs 48K crore, It looks like those support elements have been re-added not with HAL but with IAF’s BRD.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 14 Jan 2021 03:34

just thought this image may belong here.

source: https://twitter.com/DefenceDecode/statu ... 84515?s=20

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Jan 2021 04:07

Aditya_V wrote:Regarding Mk1A deliveries, I think the Trainers are MK1 standard so should be produced by 2024, the 73 single seaters will start delivery from 2024.

Makes sense as the Mk1A needs some drawing updates.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Jan 2021 04:09

ashishvikas wrote:An article by Ajay Shukla.

https://www.ajaishukla.com/2021/01/cabi ... tejas.html
The sanction of Rs 1,202 crore is for the IAF to develop repair and servicing infrastructure at their base depots “so that the turnaround time would get reduced for mission critical systems and would lead to increased availability of aircraft for operational exploitation,” said the MoD.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Jan 2021 04:15

Rakesh wrote:
Rakesh wrote:@Indrani1_Roy
@nileshjrane
@sriramthg
BRF is fortunate to have these gentlemen. Thank you guys for everything.

And many registered and unregistered members who got it here.

This Mk1A order ends the combat fighter planes import business.
Future is all Indian aviation.
Some sub-systems could be imported and co-developed.

Mk1A final delivery 2027
Mk2 Delivery start from 2027 thru 2034
AMCA 2034 on ward
Future I will be too old!
For you guys to carry the torch.

All future will be PGM bombs. No more dumb sh*t bombs.
I wish IAF had standardized on the DEFA cannon instead of the jamming Aden.
We would then have two lines of cannon 30mm DEFA and 23mm GSh

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Jan 2021 04:18

Haridas wrote:Lowest hanging fruit is Astra missile integration on Tejas Mk1 that are in hand.

Chief said will happen.
HAL wants to do that on Mk1A.
PMO unacceptable. There is war going on.
No point in delay.

ashbhee · Post by **ashbhee** » 14 Jan 2021 04:26

This is great news. However I will wait until contract is signed to celebrate. You will never know some Babu might throw a monkey wrench before it is signed.
Also, can 40 Mk1s be upgraded to Mk1A when they for overhaul.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Jan 2021 04:30

Its beyond that.
Please don't unnecessarily chaddi shiver.

I did say there is a slight hitch in the Dec 2020 announcement and it has been fixed.

Contract will be signed.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Jan 2021 04:34

Ajai Shukla wrote:

The negotiated price amounts to about Rs 550 crore per Tejas Mark 1A fighter, which is significantly higher than the Rs 430 crore cost of each Sukhoi-30MKI that HAL builds.

The reasons for this high cost is the four major improvements the IAF has demanded over the current Tejas Mark 1 version. The most challenging involves equipping the Mark 1A fighter with active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, in place of the current manually scanned Israeli Elta EL/M 2032 radar. The IAF has also demanded a “self-protection jammer” (SPJ), integrated on an external pod under the Tejas’ wing.

Two other upgrades are less complicated: Improving the “maintainability” of the fighter and fitting it with the capabilities and attachments for air-to-air refuelling (AAR).

Terming the Tejas Mark 1A a “fourth-plus generation fighter”, the MoD said it is “equipped with critical operational capabilities of AESA radar, beyond visual range (BVR) missile, electronic warfare (EW) suite and AAR.”

The sanction of Rs 1,202 crore is for the IAF to develop repair and servicing infrastructure at their base depots “so that the turnaround time would get reduced for mission critical systems and would lead to increased availability of aircraft for operational exploitation,” said the MoD.

very good squaring the circle.

Need to understand the previous three years to negotiate were really fact finding for HAL also is not used to such contracts.

And also being treated on par with foreign vendor.