Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

nam · Post by **nam** » 25 Jan 2021 16:18

X band AESA seeker for our missiles... the one which looks a cake with candles..

nam · Post by **nam** » 25 Jan 2021 16:34

Rudram 3 images been deliberately released. 2nd time.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 25 Jan 2021 17:27

bharathp wrote: Helina - Infrared Image seeker
SANT - active radar homing

This also has other implications: Helina's LOAL mode allows the WSI to select a target among many during the flight, put it in the box that tells the missile to home in. Not sure if that's possible with a radar homing seeker.

SANT might also have an LOAL mode, but it might be an autonomous target acquisition by the missile itself

sajaym · Post by **sajaym** » 25 Jan 2021 17:38

nam wrote:Rudram 3 images been deliberately released. 2nd time.
[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EskilS2VcAA ... g&name[img]

On the missile is it written NG 1 ?

nam · Post by **nam** » 25 Jan 2021 18:44

If you are referring to the DRDO sticker, then it is RCI

Zynda · Post by **Zynda** » 25 Jan 2021 19:09

There was a successful firing of Akash-NG missile earlier today. Apparently, the test also included interception of an electronic target which was also accomplished.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 25 Jan 2021 20:42

"There was a successful firing of Akash-NG missile earlier today."

Congrats, quite impressive. And wasn't this test originally scheduled for March at the earliest? If so, a nice preponement

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 25 Jan 2021 20:51

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1353680736948260865

BREAKING: Maiden test of Akash-NG (New Gen) conducted successfully. Details from
@DRDO_India

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1353689212260921351

A side-by-side of the Akash SAM and the Akash NG tested for the first time today:

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 25 Jan 2021 21:15

Will the Akash NG share the launcher of the original Akash?

kvraghav · Post by **kvraghav** » 25 Jan 2021 21:15

Seems like Astra mk2 and Akash NG might be the same missiles. The Astra 2 is supposed to have 160 km tail chase and launched from aircraft with velocity.

srin · Post by **srin** » 25 Jan 2021 21:27

So the ramjet is gone ?

nam · Post by **nam** » 25 Jan 2021 21:42

If they are the same missile, this makes the ground launch of Astra2. This design would require captive trails on Su30. I was hoping DRDO keeps the design similar as Astra1, to prevent lot of captive and flight test. Change the motor to dual pulse.

Let's see when the first test of Astra2 is planned.

kvraghav · Post by **kvraghav** » 25 Jan 2021 21:44

srin wrote:So the ramjet is gone ?

Looks to be dual pulse rocket motor.

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 25 Jan 2021 22:15

Active seeker for terminal homming , mid cousrse guidance with data link and dual pulse motor .

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 25 Jan 2021 22:45

Basically ground launched version for Indian AMRAAM. This version will definitely move on to IAF platforms.

nam · Post by **nam** » 25 Jan 2021 23:24

I think the launcher and the tracking radar are on a single 10X10 Tatra.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 25 Jan 2021 23:26

shaun wrote:Active seeker for terminal homming , mid cousrse guidance with data link and dual pulse motor .

Is it a dual pulse motor? The chatter from a few days back was that the Akash-NG was a single-pulse motor, which was a bit of a surprise for me

John · Post by **John** » 26 Jan 2021 00:13

srin wrote:So the ramjet is gone ?

Been calling this for a while, the Ramjet taken and improved up on from its predecessor SA-6 has far too many limitations on speed and range it is good we switched from it. FYI the Russian Buk which has done similar approach had its range limited to 30-40 km due to obsolete FCR which is not a limitation for us.

Anyone got the length and weight looks far too big to be adapted for air launch.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 26 Jan 2021 00:18

John wrote: Anyone got the length and weight looks far too big to be adapted for air launch.

Not sure why people are calling on this to be adapted for a-to-a. We already have the Astra Mk2 with a dual pulse motor in the works. I am expecting it to have a similar design as this one but with smaller dimensions. Plus the SFDR is in development too which will have better energy retention at longer ranges.

nam · Post by **nam** » 26 Jan 2021 01:07

Looks like QRSAM is the IA update of Akash and Akash NG IAF update. IA wanted track and fire on the move, that's why it has got BSR, BMFR with 360 degree radar.

Using the same tech (BMFR), with changed missile is Akash NG. I feel the range is around 50KM, and if that is correct, then this is Astra 2. Akash NG is the land version of Astra 2. If the range is longer, then we wait to see what Astra 2 looks like.

Probably integrated with Arudhra to do a search and BMFR takes over for the kill. For Akash NG BMFR and launcher are probably in one vehicle.

nam · Post by **nam** » 26 Jan 2021 01:14

Spyder MR uses EL2084 MFR. I am guessing we are using Arudhra( or Ashwini), passing on bogie info to BMFR.

Hope DRDO provides some good images and not just the launcher covered with smoke! Don't understand the need to hide things, when it will be made public in coming months..

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 26 Jan 2021 01:21

This is a wonderful development expedited by the post-Balakote assessment of state of AD

Don’t know why posters are saying this is a ground launched Astra or air launch capability etc? Outwardly, it looks nothing like Astra’s design and has more in common with MRSAM. Particularly the forward fins(although pushed back a bit) by and the motor diameter. Infact this could be a derated (and maybe cheaper ) version of the MRSAM with different seekers for more specialized targets like Cruise missiles, high value UAVs etc.

Since it uses local seeker and similar dimensions, can be produced as bigger lots and retrofitted to existing Akash batteries.

SFDR seem to be for A2A TD at this point

srai · Post by **srai** » 26 Jan 2021 02:28

Kakarat wrote:https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1353680736948260865
BREAKING: Maiden test of Akash-NG (New Gen) conducted successfully. Details from
@DRDO_India
...
A side-by-side of the Akash SAM and the Akash NG tested for the first time today:

Matches the wind tunnel picture that has been floating around for couple of years.

Similar to an even older model shown during Aero India as Astra Mk.2.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Jan 2021 03:15

srin wrote:So the ramjet is gone ?

Looks like it..Ramjet means limited altitude to where air density is good.

Eg low level intrusion.

srai · Post by **srai** » 26 Jan 2021 10:30

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 26 Jan 2021 11:11

nam wrote:Rudram 3 images been deliberately released. 2nd time.

This is one fat lady! Looks like a very long range missile to take out radars from 200 or 300 kms away!

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 26 Jan 2021 11:45

sudeepj wrote:
nam wrote:Rudram 3 images been deliberately released. 2nd time.
This is one fat lady! Looks like a very long range missile to take out radars from 200 or 300 kms away!

500 km +

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 26 Jan 2021 12:57

You mean men and equipment at Sakesar will fall silent before they know what hit them

nam · Post by **nam** » 27 Jan 2021 14:52

I have trying to understand the Akash NG program. It is heavier than Barak8, but the length is almost similar. It is also as tall/little more taller than Astra.

Given the length, I would assume it is Astra 2. But the weight doesn't support this theory. Aim120 looks similar, but is thinner. I feel Astra 2 is Akash NG, but lighter/thinner. Let see when it comes out.

Shukla is telling that the range is 30km! I feel it is similar to Mica SAM with dual pulse, which is planned for test launch in 3 odd years. It is ranged at 40KM. So Akash NG might be around 40-50KM.

Why not just use a smaller Barak8 if we want a 50KM SAM? I feel our Yehudi brothers have reached a top notch level of miniaturization of actuators & avionics, which allowed them to keep Barak8 at 275kg, yet reach 70KM. We paid top dollars for this, but we don't own it.

Barak8 has achieved the perfect body shape and weight combo to achieve that range. Now I can see why XRSAM looks like Barak8 with boosters.

srin · Post by **srin** » 27 Jan 2021 15:13

What is the weight of Akash NG ?

nam · Post by **nam** » 27 Jan 2021 15:19

350Kg

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 27 Jan 2021 15:22

Hemant Rout said Akash-NG has a 70 Km range & I'd bet my money on him.

I'd like to believe that Astra-2, Rudram & Akash-NG have the same set of core components, but vary according to their respective roles. But conspicuous by its absence of mention is any statement that Akash-NG has a dual pulse motor (except for the recent piece by Shukla). I wonder why.

The same Hemant Rout mentioned that Rudram has a dual-pulse motor.

Agree with you that the Barak-8 seems like a marvel in miniaturization. A missile with that range and a 275 Kg weight!

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 27 Jan 2021 20:12

Notam for 190 kms area near Balasore issued for 'IAF exercise' from 1st Feb to 27th Feb. Meteor/Astra 2 Test?

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 27 Jan 2021 20:17

sudeepj wrote:
nam wrote:Rudram 3 images been deliberately released. 2nd time.
This is one fat lady! Looks like a very long range missile to take out radars from 200 or 300 kms away!

I have seen some AV's claiming this missile is a Massive Ordnance Penetrator (Bunker Buster) capable of penetrating different levels of underground protection depending on the rock level, steel and PSI strength of reinforced concrete used.

kit · Post by **kit** » 27 Jan 2021 21:30

Vips wrote:
sudeepj wrote:
This is one fat lady! Looks like a very long range missile to take out radars from 200 or 300 kms away!
I have seen some AV's claiming this missile is a Massive Ordnance Penetrator (Bunker Buster) capable of penetrating different levels of underground protection depending on the rock level, steel and PSI strength of reinforced concrete used.

why would you need a MOAB t take out a relatively thin skinned radar installation ..aha., i get it ., read that nuke command control systems !!, hardened facilities

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 27 Jan 2021 21:47

I think this may not be the Rudram 3 as speculated but MOP.

mody · Post by **mody** » 27 Jan 2021 21:55

Akash NG, is supposed to be 70-80 Kms. It is our equivalent to the Barak-8 based MRSAM.
Will cost less than half as per some online speculation.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 27 Jan 2021 22:34

nam wrote:I have trying to understand the Akash NG program. It is heavier than Barak8, but the length is almost similar. It is also as tall/little more taller than Astra.

Given the length, I would assume it is Astra 2. But the weight doesn't support this theory. Aim120 looks similar, but is thinner. I feel Astra 2 is Akash NG, but lighter/thinner. Let see when it comes out.

Shukla is telling that the range is 30km! I feel it is similar to Mica SAM with dual pulse, which is planned for test launch in 3 odd years. It is ranged at 40KM. So Akash NG might be around 40-50KM.

Why not just use a smaller Barak8 if we want a 50KM SAM? I feel our Yehudi brothers have reached a top notch level of miniaturization of actuators & avionics, which allowed them to keep Barak8 at 275kg, yet reach 70KM. We paid top dollars for this, but we don't own it.

Barak8 has achieved the perfect body shape and weight combo to achieve that range. Now I can see why XRSAM looks like Barak8 with boosters.

Akash NG completes what we have started through barak 8 program. In barak 8, our expertise & contribution is towards rocket motor, actuators etc, on the lower section of the missile.

OTOH, here in Akash NG, we could see our contribution in the upper section of the missile. Thus completes what we started in barak 8 program. We parterned with Israel to compensate for the lack of / slow progress in certain tech. Akash NG sees that getting implemented in our own way.

Dont simply go by weight, range etc. Barak 8 has stringent qualitative requirement as it caters to naval system where weight & space matters. OTOH, Akash NG has more freedom being a land based system & it can be designed to the best of its capability without such restrictions. One should see this as advantage.

The way i see it, Akash NG represents the tier I implementation of Israeli tech that we absorbed along with our own contribution.

Another way to round off:
9M96 - Akash 1S /Akash NG
9M96E2 - Barak8 & its variants (long range)
48N6 - XRSAM

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 27 Jan 2021 22:36

Per a Defense AV: 2 More test of Akash NG are scheduled. First would test the indigenous seeker & guidance system while the second would test its warhead. The recent test was to validate its propulsion, aerodynamics and control systems.

John · Post by **John** » 28 Jan 2021 05:42

mody wrote:Akash NG, is supposed to be 70-80 Kms. It is our equivalent to the Barak-8 based MRSAM.
Will cost less than half as per some online speculation.

I believe Akash NG is intended to fill the gap between Akash (10-25km) and Barak-8 (intended for targets 50-100 km).