Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

[Bharadwaj]

https://pib.gov.in/PressReleseDetail.aspx?PRID=1694844

Ministry of Defence
Rs. 48,000 Contract for 83 Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas handed over to HAL at the Inaugural Ceremony of Aero India 2021
Posted On: 03 FEB 2021 6:25PM by PIB Delhi
Today at Inaugural Ceremony of Aero India 2021, in the presence of Raksha Mantri Shri Rajnath Singh, the Contract for 83 Light Combat Aircraft Tejas was handed over to Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). The Cabinet Committee on Security under the Chairmanship of Prime Minister Shri Narendra Modi had approved procurement of 73 LCA Tejas Mk-1A fighter aircrafts and 10 LCA Tejas Mk-1 Trainer aircrafts at a cost of Rs. 45,696 Cr along with Design & Development and Infrastructure sanctions worth Rs. 1,202 Cr on 13th January, 2021. The contract is valued at close to Rs. 48,000 crores.

This is the largest ever Defence contract for indigenous manufacture till date. This significant step provides great impetus to indigenous fighter aircraft capability of the nation. A stellar display of Tejas platform was made today in Aero India 2021 in the presence of large number of international and national participants.

The deliveries of all 83 aircraft shall be completed in 8 years from now. HAL will be delivering the first 3 aircraft in the 3rd year and 16 aircrafts per year for subsequent 5 years. On 2nd February Raksha Mantri Shri Rajnath Singh inaugurated the second production facility (Plant II) to augment the production capacity and ensure timely supply of aircraft to IAF. The induction of Light Combat Aircraft Tejas Mk-1A in Indian Air Force will enhance operational capabilities and improve the aircraft strength.

Light Combat Aircraft Mk-1A variant is an indigenously designed, developed and manufactured state of the art modern 4+ generation fighter aircraft. This aircraft is equipped with critical operational capabilities of Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) Radar, Beyond Visual Range (BVR) Missile, Electronic Warfare (EW) Suite and Air to Air Refuelling (AAR) would be a potent platform to meet the operational requirements of Indian Air Force. It is the first “Buy (Indian-Indigenously Designed Developed and Manufactured)” category procurement of combat aircrafts with an indigenous content of 50% which will progressively reach 60% by the end of the programme and about 250 out of 344 systems fitted in the aircraft will be indigenous.

Responding to Prime Minister Shri Narendra Modi’s clarion call for Aatmanirbhar Bharat Abhiyaan, India is continuously growing in its power to indigenously design, develop and manufacture advanced cutting edge technologies and systems in the Defence Sector. The manufacturing of Light Combat Aircraft by HAL will give a further push to Aatmanirbhar Bharat initiative and boost indigenization of defence production and the defence industry in the country. About 500 Indian companies including MSMEs in the design and manufacturing sectors will be working with HAL in this procurement. Some of these companies have displayed their systems at Aero India 2021. Today, the nation is self-reliant in most of the Military Fighter Aircraft Contemporary technologies and this has been possible largely due to Tejas Programme. The programme would act as a catalyst for transforming the Indian aerospace manufacturing ecosystem into a vibrant Aatmanirbhar-self-sustaining ecosystem.

*****

ABB/PS/SP/Nampi/KA/DK/Savvy

[Aditya_V]

So whats the plan now

3- FOC aircraft delivered till date 1 more till Mar 21.

FY 21-22 to FY 23-24, 12 Single seat FOC Mk1 Aircraft, 8 Trainers and 3 MK 1A/ MK1 Trainer Aircraft. So for 3 years HAL will deliver 7-8 Aircraft a year only?

Surely more Mk1 single seat and Trainers and can be delivered in this period, they are still very useful.

And then finally 16 Aircraft per year, the press release does not the give the split for deliveries of the 73 Mk1A and Mk1 Trainers.

[enaiel]

Finally!!! Congrats to ADA, HAL, IAF, CEMILAC, DG AQA, ADE, NAL, CSIO, BEL, among many others!

[manjgu]

can someone summaries LCA/Tejas journey till date

how many/ timelines LSP, IOC, FOC, MK1, MK1A...the differences in bullet points.

[JayS]

Would anybody know if the composites and the metal surface are co-cured together or the metal surface is riveted afterwards?

They should figure out a way to combine the composite and metallic surface, so as to reduce the amount of rivets, specially on wings.

Even the Composite parts are riveted. Technology is not the limit when it comes to reducing rivets below a certain leval. We can make co-co wing and probably even cure the metalic parts. They dont want to do that as they cannot inspect the wing later for cracks (from structural pov) and leakages. It would be made in single step. Its not desirable.

[Zynda]

So far, I have not come across co-curing composite & metal parts together...bonded joint? yes! Co-curing...probably not AFAIK. But as JayS has mentioned, bolted/riveted connections are preferred for easy of maintenance & inspection POV.

[ramana]

Would anybody know if the composites and the metal surface are co-cured together or the metal surface is riveted afterward?

They should figure out a way to combine the composite and metallic surface, so as to reduce the number of rivets, especially on wings.

Even the Composite parts are riveted. Technology is not the limit when it comes to reducing rivets below a certain level. We can make co-cured wing and probably even cure the metallic parts. They don't want to do that as they cannot inspect the wing later for cracks (from structural pov) and leakages. It would be made in a single step. Its not desirable.

Important to note.
India will have to spend a lot on NDT processes for this.

For production runs in the low 100s not worth it.
nam,
Please stop comparing to the US all the time.

We got a great plane after the 1960s order for HF-24 Marut
Take a pause to be happy.

[Y I Patel]

More pleasing than the order itself is the dedicated facility to manufacture Tejas. This will create an impetus for follow on orders. Now we can say for sure that Tejas is not going the Marut way.

Congratulations to all those who made it happen!

[ramana]

The next target: Orders for MK2, AMCA & TEDBF prototype

In the series on ADA & HAL, there was a comment that LCA wings being made of composites are very hard to drill. Imagine the airframe life of LCA, when it is difficult to droll holes in to..

Yes, graphite-epoxy material dulls even carbide drill bits. It's fact of life.
Only used during the manufacturing stage.

[JayS]

Even the Composite parts are riveted. Technology is not the limit when it comes to reducing rivets below a certain level. We can make co-cured wing and probably even cure the metallic parts. They don't want to do that as they cannot inspect the wing later for cracks (from structural pov) and leakages. It would be made in a single step. Its not desirable.

Important to note.
India will have to spend a lot on NDT processes for this.

For production runs in the low 100s not worth it.
nam,
Please stop comparing to the US all the time.

We got a great plane after the 1960s order for HF-24 Marut
Take a pause to be happy.

Yes, there is always a balance between mfg efforts, quality and inspection capabilities. Perhaps with better inspection methods we could move further in reducing the holes.

Even F35 or B787 use a ton of rivets and bolts. But in those cases they are making much larger composite parts/panels in one go. That's helps. It has helped a great deal in case of LCA too. But even that has cons such as if you have fault, you would reject entire large part which has cost and time implications. Engineering is all about tradeoffs. Sometimes simple ways offer overall optimal solutions. And we shouldn't shy away from adopting them when it makes sense.

NAL has already demonstrated co-co tech on Saras wing with entire lower wing surface and the internal ribs et all co-cured co-bonded in one step. Entire LCA Fin is a co-co component made with an innovative process. From their, its not too outlandish to think we could have done much more for LCA wing too eliminating a few thousand holes. I have specifically asked ADA Structural engg about this and one of the top officials of LCA Div. They were categorial about not having fully co-cured co-bonded wings for even LCA Mk2.

[Rakesh]

83 Tejas Mk1A contract signed at Aero India.

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1356823498862170112?s=19

What a truly wonderful day. Kudos to the team. Jingo Kush Hua!

[Cain Marko]

So whats the plan now

3- FOC aircraft delivered till date 1 more till Mar 21.

FY 21-22 to FY 23-24, 12 Single seat FOC Mk1 Aircraft, 8 Trainers and 3 MK 1A/ MK1 Trainer Aircraft. So for 3 years HAL will deliver 7-8 Aircraft a year only?

Surely more Mk1 single seat and Trainers and can be delivered in this period, they are still very useful.

And then finally 16 Aircraft per year, the press release does not the give the split for deliveries of the 73 Mk1A and Mk1 Trainers.

So, in the next 3 years 21-24, IAF will induct:
24 rafale
20 odd Tejas
12mki
21 mig29

They will lose:
120 odd bisons
40 odd mig27

Total sqd strength:
2 x Tejas
2 x rafale
14 x mki
6 x jaguar
3 x m2000
4 x mig29
TT:. 31 sqds

Thereafter, they will see rise via Tejas mk1a and by 2028, the number will go up to 35sqds

After that Tejas mk2 will replace jags and probably m29 and m2k (250 odd fighters). Sqd strength will remain 35 till 2040.

Amca will come in around 2040 and perhaps pakfa to slowly start replacing mki.

But I just don't see how sqd strength goes beyond 35 and gets to the desired 42.

UNLESS they get the MRCA. now I'm sensing the logic behind it. If MRCA starts coming in at the same time as mk1a, we could see strength increase to 41-42 sqds by 2030ish (35+6)

So MRCA is coming!

[Cain Marko]

83 Tejas Mk1A contract signed at Aero India.

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1356823498862170112?s=19

What a truly wonderful day. Kudos to the team. Jingo Kush Hua!

What a relief. Felt like it was never going to happen. Der aaye, durust aaye.

[Vips]

In three years, the first deliveries will begin. And that is the industry standard.

Gurus i know it is a industry standard but why 3 years to roll out the first bird if the most important/challenging parts (Engine and Radar) are coming in ready made and most important when HAL has :
-A confirmed order of 83 jets
- Empty production lines spread over two locations
-Its role is more of a integrator then a builder with front, central, rear fuselage and the tail assemblies coming from Pvt sector
-It now has an established supply chain of vendors who have rolled out complete sub assemblies with interchangeable parts(ICY)

Are the new improvements so earth shaking that it takes 1095 days just to roll off the first aircraft?

[rrao]

Kota Harinarayana sir, your dream has come true. you and your team gave India a beautiful fighter aircraft. thank you for all the hard work and pains taken to make the dream a reality!!!

[Rakesh]

In three years, the first deliveries will begin. And that is the industry standard.

Gurus i know it is a industry standard but why 3 years to roll out the first bird if the most important/challenging parts (Engine and Radar) are coming in ready made and most important when HAL has :
-A confirmed order of 83 jets
- Empty production lines spread over two locations
-Its role is more of a integrator then a builder with front, central, rear fuselage and the tail assemblies coming from Pvt sector
-It now has an established supply chain of vendors who have rolled out complete sub assemblies with interchangeable parts(ICY)

Are the new improvements so earth shaking that it takes 1095 days just to roll off the first aircraft?

@Vips: Let me answer this question via a different route.

When the Rafale order was signed in Sept 2016, it was written in the contract that the first deliveries will occur in Sept 2019. And that happened as per schedule. And unlike the supposedly "empty" production lines at HAL, the Rafale line was churning out aircraft. They could have delivered these birds a lot quicker. But why not? That line can churn out 33 Rafales per year. Doable, but the customer would have to pay for the increased delivery schedule. Dassault's Tier 2 and Tier 3 suppliers also require their lead time in getting their components to the Dassault line at Merignac for assembly. But no Tier 2 or Tier 3 supplier will invest their own money and start producing components, without a signed order. What if tomorrow, the order never comes through? What will you now do with all those manufactured components? Who is going to buy it?

The MoD was not prepared to pay for an increased delivery schedule for the Rafale deal and neither will they do that for the Tejas deal. Everything has to follow a set schedule, as frustrating as it is for us jingos. And with our MoD, even more so. They love rules and policies. Those 21 MiG-29s (currently under negotiation in Russia), will also take three years....once the contract is signed. All the contestants in the MRFA contest, even Lockheed Martin, requires three years for delivery of the first batch. This is not bicycle assembly, but a state-of-the-art and modern 4+ generation fighter aircraft. Everything has to fit and work perfectly together. This is as true for the F-21 as it will be for the Tejas Mk1A. It is not just the improvements alone that are so earth shattering, but these improvements have to be tested, certified and given clearance. A number of institutions will be involved in this i.e. HAL, ASTE, IAF, etc. LSPs are being converted for this task. This takes a considerable length of time.

So when we see LM churning out 30+ F-16s per month (as they did in the 80s), please note that this was after everything was tested, tried and proven and with an order book running into the thousands. Then it is just a matter of following the instruction manual. This is why HAL is stating that they can ramp up production, once commenced. And if our MoD orders even more, then all the better. This is why 83 is too little of an order. But I am not complaining, considering the import dalals we have in India and even representative on our forum. 83 is better than 0.

Once the aircraft is delivered to the customer, then the next phase commences. Training a qualified pool of pilots and ground personnel to fly and maintain these aircraft. Again, there is a set syllabus for this. No completion of syllabus and you will not be allowed anywhere near the aircraft. Policies and procedures exist for this reason. Again, frustrating for us jingos...but they have to be followed. You cannot cut corners. Lives are at stake. That is how Wing Commander PS Nara died in the first Su-30MKI crash of the IAF. He was never supposed to be on that plane. He was not qualified to be on the Su-30MKI. But I digress.

[Vivek K]

Well said Admiral sir! The point is well made - there will more than a thousand (or several thousand) parts that will be stressed to infinity and beyond (to borrow a phrase) and each part has exacting standards that must be followed. So HAL needs to place orders on its suppliers and they all have delivery lead times. Once the parts are supplied, they have to be checked and then put into the production lines. Each part must follow exacting tolerances and any that don't conform will be rejected. In the case of HAL, they very well could take more than 3 years not less (since this is not a regularly functioning setup with large orders). That is why IAF should have ordered 200.

[basant]

Kota Harinarayana sir, your dream has come true. you and your team gave India a beautiful fighter aircraft. thank you for all the hard work and pains taken to make the dream a reality!!!

+100

It is a travesty of life that he was never offered to fly in LCA! When I heard that in an interview I just couldn't believe it. I hope and pray that he gets to do that soon.

[srai]

@Vips

Watch these Tarmak007 LCA production line series

Note: You might want to watch videos of aircraft manufacturing and production too.

[Rakesh]

This is going on Page 1 of this thread fairly soon....

This is the official video on Tejas Mk1A by HAL.

[Rakesh]

Click on the link below. I cannot embed the animated gif in my post.

https://twitter.com/StratLogan/status/1 ... 91393?s=20 ---> Interesting bit from HAL's LCA Mk1A promo at #AeroIndia2021

2 x Mk1As in offensive strike.
* Tejas 1 firing a BVRAAM
* Tejas 2 releasing swarm drones (ALFA-S)
* Jag 1 and Jag 4 in the strike package as well.
* MiG-29 perhaps in adversary AD role.

[Rakesh]

https://twitter.com/Amitraaz/status/135 ... 87973?s=20 ---> Private sector participation in the Tejas program.

[V_Raman]

AI 2021 is like coming of age for domestic military production.

We have fighters, small scale engines, helicopters, drones - WOW

[Rakesh]

[ArjunPandit]

https://twitter.com/StratLogan/status/1 ... 91393?s=20 --->

* MiG-29 perhaps in adversary AD role.

AD: Air defence or dominance?

[Rakesh]

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/135 ... 77633?s=20 ---> At the second LCA Tejas production line inauguration ceremony today in Bengaluru.

https://twitter.com/ReviewVayu/status/1 ... 71745?s=20 ---> Defence Minister Inaugurates HAL's Second LCA Plant, Calls LCA Pride of India. Mr R Madhavan, CMD, HAL, "The Defence Minister's visit is a great moral booster to HAL. The phase -1 of the facility will enable HAL to enhance production capacity to 16, from the current 8 every year."

[Rakesh]

Indian Air Force Crucial Enabler of Peace, Stability and Security in IOR: Air Chief
https://bharatshakti.in/indian-air-forc ... air-chief/
03 Feb 2021

Speaking about building indigenous capability, Air Chief Marshal Bhadauria said “The Government of India has introduced multiple reforms, and policy changes, which encourage partners to collaborate on creating next-generation technologies and platforms under the ‘Make in India’ programme”. He further added, “From the IAF’s perspective, we have placed large orders for LCA, in excess of 7 billion USD. LCA is the best in its class lightweight fighter which would become an important part of IAF’s future combat capability.”

[Atmavik]

its good time to remeber how far the LCA program has come. just putting this picture out there

[AkshaySG]

And then finally 16 Aircraft per year, the press release does not the give the split for deliveries of the 73 Mk1A and Mk1 Trainers.

So, in the next 3 years 21-24, IAF will induct:
24 rafale
20 odd Tejas
12mki
21 mig29

They will lose:
120 odd bisons
40 odd mig27

Total sqd strength:
2 x Tejas
2 x rafale
14 x mki
6 x jaguar
3 x m2000
4 x mig29
TT:. 31 sqds

Thereafter, they will see rise via Tejas mk1a and by 2028, the number will go up to 35sqds

After that Tejas mk2 will replace jags and probably m29 and m2k (250 odd fighters). Sqd strength will remain 35 till 2040.

Amca will come in around 2040 and perhaps pakfa to slowly start replacing mki.

But I just don't see how sqd strength goes beyond 35 and gets to the desired 42.

UNLESS they get the MRCA. now I'm sensing the logic behind it. If MRCA starts coming in at the same time as mk1a, we could see strength increase to 41-42 sqds by 2030ish (35+6)

So MRCA is coming!

1. The Mig 27s are already retired

2. Not all the Bisons will be retired by 2024 and definitely not at once , Heck some of the later upgrades were receieved only in the last couple of years .. So they'll be phased out as each squadron of Tejas comes on

3. There is absolutely zero chance MRCA can come in at the same time as Mk1A unless we do another G2G order of Rafales and even that will probably take a while , If we do a full evaluation of the new F-15 Ex,F-21 etc etc the time for that + contract neg + 3 years for delivery would mean ~2030 by the time these jets start arriving any decent numbers


Frankly i'm not worried about reaching the magical "42 " figure as long as we can maintain 35-36 squadrons through this decade and keep increasing quality and support systems + UAV's ... That 42 number was from the early 2000's (iirc) in an era where we still had very role specific jets and were churning out old , relatively cheap Mig's in large numbers ... So it made sense to have 10 squadrons of air superiority ,10 of interceptors/CAP ,10 for air defence , few each for ground attack and recce etc etc

But in this era where IAF is gearing for multi role fighters in Tejas,MWF,Rafale etc etc supported by UAV's and UCAV's and each platform's capability and cost being what it is we can do a lot lot more with the 35 of today than we could with the 35 of two decades ago .

If/when we start getting export orders and unit costs come down then we can add a few more squadrons here and there

[suryag]

is the chief one amongst the kneeling AFmen in that pic?

[ramana]

Looks like it.

[ramana]

Kartik, Does the Mk1A have that midbody plug, or is that the Mk2?

Ramana sir, no fuselage changes on the Mk1A. Mk2 gets a 1.3 m fuselage plug.

So kudos to the innovators who came up with Mk1A configuration.

Made this order feasible.

[mody]

So, in the next 3 years 21-24, IAF will induct:
24 rafale
20 odd Tejas
12mki
21 mig29

They will lose:
120 odd bisons
40 odd mig27

Total sqd strength:
2 x Tejas
2 x rafale
14 x mki
6 x jaguar
3 x m2000
4 x mig29
TT:. 31 sqds

Thereafter, they will see rise via Tejas mk1a and by 2028, the number will go up to 35sqds

After that Tejas mk2 will replace jags and probably m29 and m2k (250 odd fighters). Sqd strength will remain 35 till 2040.

Amca will come in around 2040 and perhaps pakfa to slowly start replacing mki.

But I just don't see how sqd strength goes beyond 35 and gets to the desired 42.

UNLESS they get the MRCA. now I'm sensing the logic behind it. If MRCA starts coming in at the same time as mk1a, we could see strength increase to 41-42 sqds by 2030ish (35+6)

So MRCA is coming!

1. The Mig 27s are already retired

2. Not all the Bisons will be retired by 2024 and definitely not at once , Heck some of the later upgrades were receieved only in the last couple of years .. So they'll be phased out as each squadron of Tejas comes on

3. There is absolutely zero chance MRCA can come in at the same time as Mk1A unless we do another G2G order of Rafales and even that will probably take a while , If we do a full evaluation of the new F-15 Ex,F-21 etc etc the time for that + contract neg + 3 years for delivery would mean ~2030 by the time these jets start arriving any decent numbers


Frankly i'm not worried about reaching the magical "42 " figure as long as we can maintain 35-36 squadrons through this decade and keep increasing quality and support systems + UAV's ... That 42 number was from the early 2000's (iirc) in an era where we still had very role specific jets and were churning out old , relatively cheap Mig's in large numbers ... So it made sense to have 10 squadrons of air superiority ,10 of interceptors/CAP ,10 for air defence , few each for ground attack and recce etc etc

But in this era where IAF is gearing for multi role fighters in Tejas,MWF,Rafale etc etc supported by UAV's and UCAV's and each platform's capability and cost being what it is we can do a lot lot more with the 35 of today than we could with the 35 of two decades ago .

If/when we start getting export orders and unit costs come down then we can add a few more squadrons here and there

Just increase the order for the Tejas MK1A by 37 (all to be delivered in the same timeframe upto 2029) and sign a G-to-G order for additional 36 Rafael. Nothing else would be required. No need to waste time on evaluating anything else.

The other major force multiplier will be the air defense network. This is going to take a quantum leap over the next 5 years. The 28 squadrons of old Pechora Sams will get replaced by 15 squadrons of Akash MK1/1S (8 MK1 already deployed +7 squadrons of MK1S on order), plus 9 squadrons of Barak-8 based MRSAM, plus 10 firing units of S400 missiles. 4-8 Spyder firing units (atleast 4 deployed and another 2-4 have probably been ordered as emergency purchase). 16 squadrons of Pechora Sams will be upgraded and maybe be moved to some of the less critical areas, while about 12 squadrons will be phased out. SA-6 and SA-8 units will also most likely be phased out.
Over the next 5 years, the AkahsNG based MRSAM will also enter production and we might deploy another 9 squadrons to augment the Barak-8 based units. Plus the VL-SRSAM will also most likely enter service. The Army air defense will get 2-4 regiments of the Barak-8 based MRSAM, plus 4 regiments or more of QRSAM.
The entire networked radar coverage will also be much better.

Only looking at combat aircraft numbers is misleading. We have to look at the entire aerospace command of the country and put in place a defensive and offensive force structure as per that.
I have not even mentioned drones and other unmanned systems that will also start coming online over the next 5 years and will act as force multipliers.

[Kartik]

Superb pics by Angad Singh

Twitter link

[Kartik]

Stunning shot by Angad!

Twitter link

Hard to top this, to be honest. Sometimes good ideas do become reality!

B-1B meets Tejas Mk.1 over Yelahanka.

[srai]

[Bharadwaj]

To be honest there was nothing stunning about it. What they did in Bahrain was remarkable-19 second 360 turns, 9g square loop etc. It looks like the fcs is in some sort of control mode or the engine is turned down. I don't blame them for it- the product is proven and there is no need to wear out components. Compare the energy displayed in this video.

[SidSoma]

I dont think we have seen Tejas at 9g yet... Experimentally cleared to 8.5 and generally limited to 8g. But what I dont understand is the slow speed pass. Bahrain 110Kts, Aero India 2021 - 120 Kts. May have some thing to do with the locking of the AoA on the prod aircraft

[Bharadwaj]

Yes sorry was 8g at Bahrain.

[Atmavik]

is the chief one amongst the kneeling AFmen in that pic?

He is the cheif indeed ( 2nd from left) . thats why I put the picture up