2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Larry Walker · Post by **Larry Walker** » 30 Jun 2021 13:13

On the cue - once we had the SC Oxygen audit report out framing AAP - NYT comes out with a BIF inspired and funded article to swing the blame back to Modi and GOI. This is now open connivance between BIF and their minions in India.
https://twitter.com/i/events/1409816859549962246?s=09

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 30 Jun 2021 18:53

This is your chance

Date extended till 15th July

we seem to have missed this

VickyAvinash · Post by **VickyAvinash** » 30 Jun 2021 19:35

chetak wrote:
darshan wrote:Noted that the only interest is in saving Sikh girls rather than all girls. One wonders if anyone approached the illegal minority ministry.

darshan ji,

ever wonder why only one community, the pandits, left cashmere under threat of life.

There was always another "minority" in cashmere too.

why did they not leave, why were they not forced to leave like the pandits were.

The answer to that question will clarify why the BJP is agreeable to the sikh stance as taken by this clown sirsa now.

OT alert: I may be banned for this post. I belong to Amritsar district, born and brought up in a Hindu majority village in black days of sikh terrorism. Lost a lot of family members in direct attacks. My wife's parents, grand parents and uncle was killed in a single night in 1987 only because one of the uncle was in police. Anyways, whatever is said and done, reality on the ground is that No Sikh stands with Hindu community. After Guru Gobind Singh, Sikhs have always looked down upon hindus, our religious practices and did not leave any stone unturned during the peak of militancy to push all hindus out of Punjab. Thus it is no surprise that tacit understanding existed between sikh terrorists in Punjab and muslim terrorists in Kasmir to work against Hindus. Sad thing when all their Gurus sacrificed themselves for Sanatan Dharma and last Guru was stabbed to death by a muslim. Really sad

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 30 Jun 2021 20:04

Whoa. We may be from the same village.

Unfortunately there is a complete distrust of Sikhs. There is no need for any bans.

It has been well earned. The false narratives of history need correction. Most Hindus believe Sikhs protected Hindus. Kashmiri Hindus tell me that is a fable. I myself do not know who to believe.

The reality is that Hindus saved Sikhs from a genocide by accepting them into India in 1947. They are proud of their martial prowess in fighting the Mughals but had no embarrassment running to India from the mughalzyade in west Panjab.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 30 Jun 2021 20:26

chetak wrote:and the gravy train thunders along while the dependents of rest of the covid dead in the country are completely ignored, marginalized and discarded.

learn from these damad PSU employees and their families.

Rest assured that there are babooze and congis behind this self less act of bilking the tax payers

most of these employees already own assets valued in multiple crores, not to mention the accruing life time family perks and complete care at govt expense

“Widows Forum for Justice” formed by the wives of Air India (AI) pilots, who lost their lives after contracting the COVID virus in the line of duty, has written to AI management to seek adequate compensation and alternative employment for themselves.
via@ANI·2h

How many widows are there?

shravanp · Post by **shravanp** » 30 Jun 2021 20:26

sanjaykumar wrote:Whoa. We may be from the same village.

Unfortunately there is a complete distrust of Sikhs. There is no need for any bans.

It has been well earned. The false narratives of history need correction. Most Hindus believe Sikhs protected Hindus. Kashmiri Hindus tell me that is a fable. I myself do not know who to believe.

The reality is that Hindus saved Sikhs from a genocide by accepting them into India in 1947. They are proud of their martial prowess in fighting the Mughals but had no embarrassment running to India from the mughalzyade in west Panjab.

Sikhs have, no doubt, a good history. It is also true that after Marathas lost Panipat, Sikh rescued many women/children from Abdali's army on way back to Afghanistan. They had to pay price later for that, and it resulted in "Vadda Ghalughara". However Suraj Mal (of Bharatpur) also lend his help in sheltering the refugees. It is also true that Kashmir was rescued by Sikh armies from an tyrannical Afghan rule. However were the ONLY two instances where I see historically where Sikhs had shown their military prowess. However if we leave these two incidents alone, vast Hindu population were taken care of by Marathas, Rajputs, Jatts and several smaller independent kingdoms. We often discount Rajput contribution, but they probably had far bigger role in protecting Hindus even if some of them had to form marital alliances with Mughals. Survival doesn't necessarily ought to come only via confrontation or an all out war. In today's political landscape where Western influence on propped up Khalistanis trying to spit on Hindus, we shouldn't really let it affect Sikh-Hindu relationships on ground.

I think we do fatal mistake of identifying Sikhs as one monolith. Hell, there were a few Sikh tribes that allied with Abdalli. Even Shivaji had to fight with some traitorous Marathas to which he had condemned them to death. Its the progeny of those traitorous past, camouflaging as "marathas" and "sikhs" today.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 30 Jun 2021 20:30

VickyAvinash wrote:
chetak wrote:

darshan ji,

ever wonder why only one community, the pandits, left cashmere under threat of life.

There was always another "minority" in cashmere too.

why did they not leave, why were they not forced to leave like the pandits were.

The answer to that question will clarify why the BJP is agreeable to the sikh stance as taken by this clown sirsa now.
OT alert: I may be banned for this post. I belong to Amritsar district, born and brought up in a Hindu majority village in black days of sikh terrorism. Lost a lot of family members in direct attacks. My wife's parents, grand parents and uncle was killed in a single night in 1987 only because one of the uncle was in police. Anyways, whatever is said and done, reality on the ground is that No Sikh stands with Hindu community. After Guru Gobind Singh, Sikhs have always looked down upon hindus, our religious practices and did not leave any stone unturned during the peak of militancy to push all hindus out of Punjab. Thus it is no surprise that tacit understanding existed between sikh terrorists in Punjab and muslim terrorists in Kasmir to work against Hindus. Sad thing when all their Gurus sacrificed themselves for Sanatan Dharma and last Guru was stabbed to death by a muslim. Really sad

You have hit the nail on the head as far as the "understanding" goes but as to the rest of what you say, I have worked with a lot of sikhs and count many of them among my friends.

Never have I ever witnessed, either in word or deed, even an inkling of what you say. But that doesn't really say much because of the many events that have since followed, too many to ignore and too few to react to and needlessly precipitate an untoward situation.

It also explains the shady side of our own intelligence agencies, back stabbing babooze, especially traitorous scum like AS dulat and his masters - the prefidious congi-commie politicos, the cashmeri puppets like abdullah and mehbooba who are low level tools being used by the pakis because they are vainglorious, swaggering, arrogant and snooty but have some measure of acceptance in the Indian presstitute media circles.

There was a lot of Sikh anger after bluestar but most said nothing because one simply did not know what to say or how to react. In time, other events overtook bluestar, and matters died down.

harsimrat badal boasted in the Indian parliament how the sikhs had saved the Hindu 'janeu' and 'tilak', which is simply not true but this is what many Indians including many of the sikh quam actually think.

And slyly, she said it only in the parliament and has not dared to repeat it elsewhere. The alkali point has been made but at what cost.

The farmer's agitation has revealed that the pakis are using the khalistanis who are in turn using some idiot like dakait to push forward the shaheenbagh agenda.

but strangely, even after 1984, the sikhs continue to throng to the congis and their biradari with the muslims is strong, probably because of a loss of the historical identity that they had (mis)appropriated for themselves and their strategies to align with power so that safety is assured

There is a demeaning sound byte some short while ago, by sirsa, who is a member of the dilli SGPC where he mocks, dishonors, and humiliates the Hindus for making anti conversion laws to protect their religion. It is quite contemptuous in tone and tenor.

Since he is a member of the dilli SGPC and also aligned with the badals, then such feelings may indeed be widespread

Read this enlightening eyewitness account by Colonel Tikoo

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 30 Jun 2021 20:38

sanjaykumar wrote:Whoa. We may be from the same village.

Unfortunately there is a complete distrust of Sikhs. There is no need for any bans.

It has been well earned. The false narratives of history need correction. Most Hindus believe Sikhs protected Hindus. Kashmiri Hindus tell me that is a fable. I myself do not know who to believe.

The reality is that Hindus saved Sikhs from a genocide by accepting them into India in 1947. They are proud of their martial prowess in fighting the Mughals but had no embarrassment running to India from the mughalzyade in west Panjab.

when the muslim hordes drove out the pandits from cashmere, all non muslims were scared crapless and were terrified for themselves and their families' lives.

There are no atheists in foxholes nor were there any non muslim heroes in cashmere at that time.

every Indian fights in the Indian Army. The sikhs are just one among many of the martial races.

but because of the khalistani angle, the pakis played their trump card and stayed the murderous hand of the jehadi hordes from being raised against the sikhs.

The proof is there for all to see, over these many decades and has also played out to script in shaheenbagh, as well as, the "farmer's" agitation

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 30 Jun 2021 20:52

Chetakji
Too much is being out this Martial race yada, yada
People talking %^^$£" should be reminded that Mahabharat happened (if you believe)
Or if you don't, then Alexander did come and turn back
Selucus was defeated
Srilanka was invaded
Harsha was stopped at the Narmada and not allowed to cross further south!
And there were no ROLERS OR ROPERS or Khalsa people to protect or save the downtrodden
Ropers and later the Britshits have made this into a 'Bogeyman' to beat us with!!
If and when need be Indians are/can/and shall be Martial Period!!
All this used by Rolers and Ropers to divide the nations

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 30 Jun 2021 21:21

My point is it’s easy and foolish to sit in Delhi or Srinagar and castigate Hindus. Why not try it in Lahore, your seat of empire?

Got a problem with that?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 30 Jun 2021 21:24

Rsatchi wrote:Chetakji
Too much is being out this Martial race yada, yada
People talking %^^$£" should be reminded that Mahabharat happened (if you believe)
Or if you don't, then Alexander did come and turn back
Selucus was defeated
Srilanka was invaded
Harsha was stopped at the Narmada and not allowed to cross further south!
And there were no ROLERS OR ROPERS or Khalsa people to protect or save the downtrodden
Ropers and later the Britshits have made this into a 'Bogeyman' to beat us with!!
If and when need be Indians are/can/and shall be Martial Period!!
All this used by Rolers and Ropers to divide the nations

Rsatchi ji

Sorry, didn't mean martial races in the colonial sense of the term.

It was more in the manner of the descriptive.

For the sikhs, it is seen as more as a traditional vocation, and they are encouraged both by the govt, the social milieu, as well as, the community to join up as it is seen as the thing to do.

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 30 Jun 2021 21:26

^^^Sanjayji
Are you hinting that I am a lurking Roper!

Hey Ram!! ab bus mujjhe chaathi paadke Ramji ko dikhana padega!!

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 30 Jun 2021 21:29

and folks please call me Rajesh
and NO ji thanks

Kaivalya · Post by **Kaivalya** » 30 Jun 2021 21:41

chetak wrote:This is your chance

Date extended till 15th July

we seem to have missed this

Thank you

Even though it is good news that the deadline has been extended, it is not enough to start a large crowd funded effort. Especially sending feedback via email. Hopefully this can be spread to large institutions like AOL, ISHA , RK mutt etc to take every year text book and ferret out distortions

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 30 Jun 2021 21:46

Rsatchi wrote:Chetakji
Too much is being out this Martial race yada, yada
People talking %^^$£" should be reminded that Mahabharat happened (if you believe)
Or if you don't, then Alexander did come and turn back
Selucus was defeated
Srilanka was invaded
Harsha was stopped at the Narmada and not allowed to cross further south!
And there were no ROLERS OR ROPERS or Khalsa people to protect or save the downtrodden
Ropers and later the Britshits have made this into a 'Bogeyman' to beat us with!!
If and when need be Indians are/can/and shall be Martial Period!!
All this used by Rolers and Ropers to divide the nations

I am not sure what you meant by this. Martial people are those people whose elders force the kids to join Indian armed forces and are proud of their whatever feats. There are many communities in India who feel proud for example Rajputs, Kumaonis, Gurkhas, Jats, Tamil, Sikhs, Khatris, etc.

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 30 Jun 2021 22:09

^^ The whole terminology 'Martial' to segregate the society is what I meant sir!!
Army regiments were and are based on area or primary recruitment zone!!
But that doesn't mean that people coming from other areas or non-regiment named areas are any less martial!!
Just because there are regiments named after certain geographical areas or certain section of populace they are more martial is far from truth isnt it!!
Joining the army doesn't equate to Martial race

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 30 Jun 2021 22:24

SBajwa wrote:
Rsatchi wrote:Chetakji
Too much is being out this Martial race yada, yada
People talking %^^$£" should be reminded that Mahabharat happened (if you believe)
Or if you don't, then Alexander did come and turn back
Selucus was defeated
Srilanka was invaded
Harsha was stopped at the Narmada and not allowed to cross further south!
And there were no ROLERS OR ROPERS or Khalsa people to protect or save the downtrodden
Ropers and later the Britshits have made this into a 'Bogeyman' to beat us with!!
If and when need be Indians are/can/and shall be Martial Period!!
All this used by Rolers and Ropers to divide the nations

I am not sure what you meant by this. Martial people are those people whose elders force the kids to join Indian armed forces and are proud of their whatever feats. There are many communities in India who feel proud for example Rajputs, Kumaonis, Gurkhas, Jats, Tamil, Sikhs, Khatris, etc.

SBajwa ji

If I may,

the martial race is an outmoded colonial construct, first used by the britshits as a preferential differentiator for entry into the britshit officered and controlled Royal Indian Armed forces.

They equated "martial race" with inherent superiority (while slyly hinting at genetics) among the Indian populace.

BTW, most of the communities that you mentioned above were once counted by the british in their list of "martial races"

It is no longer in use because of its inherently discriminatory exclusivity and the Indian nation is, after independence, all about inclusivity.

The Indian Army, meaning all the fighting forces are, by law, and ethos secular, undifferentiated by religion, caste and creed, neutral in preference and inherently democratic and so they don't deny entry to people based on their ethnicity but solely on the basis of commonly accepted physical and educational criteria that are known to all applicants.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 30 Jun 2021 22:39

^^^^^
You are right. There are some area where life was easy. Good crops and enemy attacks and relatively calmer life.
There are areas which were invaded and destroyed by invaders repeatedly. People from these areas are mole likely to put up fight for the land.According to a survey not every solder is brave. Around 40 % show sign of weakness (ready to withdraw) in battle. Soviets learned hard way. They solved this problem by appointing Political commissars to shoot down solders on the spot. Then we have to keep moral up of unit, battalion and Army. We highlight on good example to do so. It is all over.

ParGha · Post by **ParGha** » 30 Jun 2021 23:33

For those insinuating a "separate peace" exists between Sikhs and Islamists -- please explain why out of the 8 TA Home & Hearth battalions in J&K, the Army raised: 157 with Sikh Regiment, 158 and 163 with Sikh Light Infantry, 156 with Punjab Regiment (50% Sikh), and 160 with JAKRIF (25% Sikh)? Or why hundreds of J&K Sikhs are recruited into J&K Police SOG and VDCs?

Many of you TALK a lot about settling ex-servicemen in J&K, creating Israel-style well-defended settlements, etc. from the safety and comfort of your houses. Thousands of Kashmiri Sikh families are actually LIVING that life. And it isn't without dangers (ex. Chittisinghpura Massacre), or sacrifices (plenty of Sikh officers from GUARDS, ARMOUR and ARTY gave up good promotion prospects, and sometimes limbs and lives, to serve in those TA units).

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 30 Jun 2021 23:39

At long last, signs of some much needed testicular heft from the MEA

Won't recognise your vaccine certificates if you don't clear Covaxin, Covishield: India to EU

Won't recognise your vaccine certificates if you don't clear Covaxin, Covishield: India to EU

Jun 30, 2021

NEW DELHI: India will not recognise EU’s digital covid certificate until the EU includes Indian vaccines Covishield and Covaxin in the certificate.
In what is certainly the first diplomatic retaliatory move against vaccine nationalism, India has said it will only recognise EU digital covid certificate on a reciprocal basis. The EU “green Pass” is expected to come into effect from July 1.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 01 Jul 2021 00:04

the martial race is an outmoded colonial construct, first used by the britshits as a preferential differentiator for entry into the britshit officered and controlled Royal Indian Armed forces. They equated "martial race" with inherent superiority (while slyly hinting at genetics) among the Indian populace.

If anyone still subscribes to that martial race crap after Galwan, where slim, dark, rice eating Col Suresh Babu from southern safe haven Telugu land took the fight to the enemy and how he inspired his team to inflict destruction upon them... and gave his life for motherland without flinching for a second

Or Abhinandan Vathaman who ate a Pak F-16 for breakfast and stopped over for chai, and hails from the pacific Jain community settled in the far way sanctuary of Tamilnadu...

I'm sure many other worthy examples exist.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 01 Jul 2021 00:10

I know of a certain martial community that roars like a lion in India and squeaks like a mouse in Pakistan.

Martial communities? WTF?

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 01 Jul 2021 00:36

ParGha wrote:For those insinuating a "separate peace" exists between Sikhs and Islamists -- please explain why out of the 8 TA Home & Hearth battalions in J&K, the Army raised: 157 with Sikh Regiment, 158 and 163 with Sikh Light Infantry, 156 with Punjab Regiment (50% Sikh), and 160 with JAKRIF (25% Sikh)? Or why hundreds of J&K Sikhs are recruited into J&K Police SOG and VDCs?

Many of you TALK a lot about settling ex-servicemen in J&K, creating Israel-style well-defended settlements, etc. from the safety and comfort of your houses. Thousands of Kashmiri Sikh families are actually LIVING that life. And it isn't without dangers (ex. Chittisinghpura Massacre), or sacrifices (plenty of Sikh officers from GUARDS, ARMOUR and ARTY gave up good promotion prospects, and sometimes limbs and lives, to serve in those TA units).

Sir ji,
Please explain why so many Sikhs subscribe to Khalistani ideology which was funded and supported by Pakistan for many years then, and even now in India and abroad?

Why does Harbhajan Singh who played for India for so many years tweeted with a Bhindranwale image (he retracted and apologised and I think he can be forgiven for that)?

Why do Sikh youth in US and Canada take out car rallys with Khalistani and Bhindranwale posters in 2021?

When Sunanda Vashisht makes a deposition before US Congressional hearing on Kashmir highlighting the Kashmiri Pandit genocide, why is the Sikh sardar sitting next to her totally impervious to her gut wrenching statement, and is singing the Paki tune ?

I've had numerous wonderful Sikh friends who I believe are as deshbhakt as I am, if not more. But why are there so many others who subscribe to divisive ideologies and collude with muslims and Pakis against India at the drop of a hat?

I really don't know.... Please enlighten me.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 01 Jul 2021 00:57

Cyrano wrote:
ParGha wrote:For those insinuating a "separate peace" exists between Sikhs and Islamists -- please explain why out of the 8 TA Home & Hearth battalions in J&K, the Army raised: 157 with Sikh Regiment, 158 and 163 with Sikh Light Infantry, 156 with Punjab Regiment (50% Sikh), and 160 with JAKRIF (25% Sikh)? Or why hundreds of J&K Sikhs are recruited into J&K Police SOG and VDCs?

Many of you TALK a lot about settling ex-servicemen in J&K, creating Israel-style well-defended settlements, etc. from the safety and comfort of your houses. Thousands of Kashmiri Sikh families are actually LIVING that life. And it isn't without dangers (ex. Chittisinghpura Massacre), or sacrifices (plenty of Sikh officers from GUARDS, ARMOUR and ARTY gave up good promotion prospects, and sometimes limbs and lives, to serve in those TA units).
Sir ji,
Please explain why so many Sikhs subscribe to Khalistani ideology which was funded and supported by Pakistan for many years then, and even now in India and abroad?

Why does Harbhajan Singh who played for India for so many years tweeted with a Bhindranwale image (he retracted and apologised and I think he can be forgiven for that)?

Why do Sikh youth in US and Canada take out car rallys with Khalistani and Bhindranwale posters in 2021?

When Sunanda Vashisht makes a deposition before US Congressional hearing on Kashmir highlighting the Kashmiri Pandit genocide, why is the Sikh sardar sitting next to her totally impervious to her gut wrenching statement, and is singing the Paki tune ?

I've had numerous wonderful Sikh friends who I believe are as deshbhakt as I am, if not more. But why are there so many others who subscribe to divisive ideologies and collude with muslims and Pakis against India at the drop of a hat?

I really don't know.... Please enlighten me.

Cyrano ji

just let it go. It's not worth it.

Don't attract the birds of prey.

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 01 Jul 2021 01:42

AAP implementing it's template. The journalist writing this article has forgotten about the usage of words like allegedly. Just because AAP said that there's an attack it doesn't make it a fact.

AAP convoy attacked in Leriya village near Visavdar
https://www.deshgujarat.com/2021/06/30/ ... -visavdar/
...
Meanwhile, participating in a TV debate show, BJP media panelist Shraddha Rajput alleged that it seemed a publicity stunt by AAP to attract publicity as the party has no issue. She alleged that AAP would also stage shoe hurling, black ink on face and other tactics to attract attention of the people. She said, the State has various players like Congress, independents, other parties, but it has never seen such a low level of politics. Gujarat has been a peaceful state but no surprise that with AAP in picture, more such incidents could be seen in time to come. She said, the incident should be probed and those responsible should be booked.

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 01 Jul 2021 02:17

Ex gratia for Covid deaths: Supreme Court orders Centre to frame guidelines within 6 weeks
A three-judge bench headed by Justice Ashok Bhushan, in its judgement, also directed the NDMA to ascertain within 6 weeks ex-gratia amount that can be paid to the family members of those who died due to the infection.

Take a bow to our new masters, our new lords in black cloaks from Shri Iftikhar Chaudhry school of law where the court makes rules, policies, oversees budget, provides guidelines on inflation, formulates agriculture and healthcare policies and also gives diktat on compensation for those who perished in once in a century pandemic. Why do we even need the pretenses of elections and democracy ? Let our milards run everything from panchayats to central government.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 049248.ece

venkat_kv · Post by **venkat_kv** » 01 Jul 2021 02:20

Cyrano wrote:
the martial race is an outmoded colonial construct, first used by the britshits as a preferential differentiator for entry into the britshit officered and controlled Royal Indian Armed forces. They equated "martial race" with inherent superiority (while slyly hinting at genetics) among the Indian populace.
If anyone still subscribes to that martial race crap after Galwan, where slim, dark, rice eating Col Suresh Babu from southern safe haven Telugu land took the fight to the enemy and how he inspired his team to inflict destruction upon them... and gave his life for motherland without flinching for a second

Or Abhinandan Vathaman who ate a Pak F-16 for breakfast and stopped over for chai, and hails from the pacific Jain community settled in the far way sanctuary of Tamilnadu...

I'm sure many other worthy examples exist.

Actually Cyrano Ji, it is Col. Santosh Babu (better to get that right since we are BRF). Every land in this country has had brave sons of soil come up during various times in history. The telugu lands have had the Kakatiyas, Sathavhanas, vengi dynasty, not to mention the gajapathis, Palas, Pandyas, Cholas, Rayas, Marathas, adjoining them from neighboring states if you look at geographically now.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 01 Jul 2021 02:33

When they lost to the British, I bet they weren’t as quick to lick the British arse as the speed record holders, of whom I understand numbers this Sirsa fellow’s ancestor.

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 01 Jul 2021 02:38

The chronic problem of not recognizing the enemy and the game. You don't respect anything in life where there's no mutual relationship. Only if likes of Prithviraj had realized that it's your religion for which you're being attacked.

Were they provided the real literature to read before the survey? Did questions cover heathens/Kaffirs/sharia/Vatican/etc.?

Indians believe its important to respect all religions: Pew research
https://www.wionews.com/india-news/indi ... rch-394944
...
The study also found that some members of the majority Hindu community celebrate Muslim and Christian festivals.
....

venkat_kv · Post by **venkat_kv** » 01 Jul 2021 02:47

Ambar wrote:
Ex gratia for Covid deaths: Supreme Court orders Centre to frame guidelines within 6 weeks
A three-judge bench headed by Justice Ashok Bhushan, in its judgement, also directed the NDMA to ascertain within 6 weeks ex-gratia amount that can be paid to the family members of those who died due to the infection.
Take a bow to our new masters, our new lords in black cloaks from Shri Iftikhar Chaudhry school of law where the court makes rules, policies, oversees budget, provides guidelines on inflation, formulates agriculture and healthcare policies and also gives diktat on compensation for those who perished in once in a century pandemic. Why do we even need the pretenses of elections and democracy ? Let our milards run everything from panchayats to central government.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 049248.ece

Ambar Saar,
Its interesting to see who is exactly behind the PIL. The court has all but asked the govt to decide on exgratia amount no matter what it happens to be. They have dismissed the solicitor general comments that this is not a one time disaster. Perhaps they should be shown what govt has done for covid victims and people in general.
It seems that the esteemed court thinks the payment should come from the Center while only the only things states can do is give freebies and claim credit for themselves.
This will have a cascading effect as more people will try to claim covid deaths and then our assorted jholawallas will say see the number is quite high.
The other part is the effect of financaial burden placed on the center with already reduced taxes.
Something similar happened about 10-15 years back for farmers in undivided AP when exgratia was announced and a lot of small and marginal farmers committed suicide thinking their family will atleast get some amount the exgratia and can pay off the loan rather than taking more loan after crops failing or not getting enough for their produce.

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 01 Jul 2021 02:48

Yep. Sounds about right. Track how groups based in UK and Dubai help out NRIs and you would clean up lot of mess.

UP religious conversion case: One held in Gujarat
https://www.deshgujarat.com/2021/06/30/ ... n-gujarat/
...
Salauddin had sent money through hawala for which he had made three to five transactions. Salauddin is associated with a United Kingdom based Trust Al-Fatah. He received funds through FCRA (Foreign Contribution Regulation Act) from his parent organization for medical and women welfare activities in Vadodara district.
...

LakshmanPST · Post by **LakshmanPST** » 01 Jul 2021 02:49

On topic of Sikhs... First of all, me being from Andhra never had any real interaction with Sikhs until I came to Delhi after my studies... Being in Delhi since last 12 years and interacting with Sikh colleagues (including my current boss) was my only exposure to them...
-
My general understanding is that Sikhs have a sort of superiority complex towards Hindus...
Our history textbooks give a linear view of history where Hindu/Pagan religions and rituals are the most backward and subsequent religions are progressive... This somewhat got extended to Sikhism...
Most Sikhs I have interacted with see Sikhism as a progressive enlightened religion compared to ritualistic backward Hinduism... This coupled with overly exaggerated 'history' of Sikhs saving Hindus made things worse...

Politically, this superiority complex and disdain for Hindu rituals got extended to rejection and branding of every Hindu consolidation movement as being backward... So, BJP/RSS are seen as political movements that should be rejected...
Modi getting elected, that too by defeating an educated, elite, Sikh Manmohan, is seen as India going backwards by 20 years... It is the reason why there was no Modi wave in Punjab even in 2014...
-
Being seen as associated with Hindus or even seen same as Hindus is somewhat insulting to one of the Sikh colleagues... Not sure how many others share such feelings...
It is this quest for an independent and superior identity that is leading the extreme ones towards Khalistani type movements...
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Personally, I have seen similar mindset in Dravidianist Tamilians and Left-Liberal Bengalis & Mallus...
Dravidians think their superior Dravidian religion was corrupted by inferior Aryan Hindus... While Bengali & Malayali Left-Liberals see Leftist ideology as state religion of their states and consider all other states as inferior since the ppl have not yet adopted this...
The common theme among all these ppl is that BJP/RSS are taking India backwards... Their idea of India is Nehruvian India born in 1947 after rejecting all backward traditions prior to that... So, Hindus supporting BJP/Modi is seen not just as Hindus being proud of their traditions/rituals but also as sending a message about their rejection of Nehruvian vision...
They want to reverse it...

venkat_kv · Post by **venkat_kv** » 01 Jul 2021 03:37

LakshmanPST wrote:On topic of Sikhs... First of all, me being from Andhra never had any real interaction with Sikhs until I came to Delhi after my studies... Being in Delhi since last 12 years and interacting with Sikh colleagues (including my current boss) was my only exposure to them...
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My general understanding is that Sikhs have a sort of superiority complex towards Hindus...
Our history textbooks give a linear view of history where Hindu/Pagan religions and rituals are the most backward and subsequent religions are progressive... This somewhat got extended to Sikhism...
Most Sikhs I have interacted with see Sikhism as a progressive enlightened religion compared to ritualistic backward Hinduism... This coupled with overly exaggerated 'history' of Sikhs saving Hindus made things worse...

Politically, this superiority complex and disdain for Hindu rituals got extended to rejection and branding of every Hindu consolidation movement as being backward... So, BJP/RSS are seen as political movements that should be rejected...
Modi getting elected, that too by defeating an educated, elite, Sikh Manmohan, is seen as India going backwards by 20 years... It is the reason why there was no Modi wave in Punjab even in 2014...
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Being seen as associated with Hindus or even seen same as Hindus is somewhat insulting to one of the Sikh colleagues... Not sure how many others share such feelings...
It is this quest for an independent and superior identity that is leading the extreme ones towards Khalistani type movements...
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Personally, I have seen similar mindset in Dravidianist Tamilians and Left-Liberal Bengalis & Mallus...
Dravidians think their superior Dravidian religion was corrupted by inferior Aryan Hindus... While Bengali & Malayali Left-Liberals see Leftist ideology as state religion of their states and consider all other states as inferior since the ppl have not yet adopted this...
The common theme among all these ppl is that BJP/RSS are taking India backwards... Their idea of India is Nehruvian India born in 1947 after rejecting all backward traditions prior to that... So, Hindus supporting BJP/Modi is seen not just as Hindus being proud of their traditions/rituals but also as sending a message about their rejection of Nehruvian vision...
They want to reverse it...

I would say all of it is just an excuse for their superiority/martial race complex. For all the love and feeling proud of the first Sikh Prime Minister they couldn't get him elected to Lok Sabha from their beloved Punjab or from Delhi where they hold sway. Maybe if possible can your colleagues explain why he wasn't/couldn't be elected to Lok Sabha. The Sikhs are supporting congress in numbers even after Congress head and her coterie treated him without any respect and like a doormat during policy formulations and in general.
And for all the enlightened panth talk Punjab has one of the most rigid class/caste structure. It should have been a paradise with respect to social strata for the rest of the Hindus or people around the world to emulate.

The same thing with revisionist dravidians tamils, Bengalis and Mallus. they have just morphed into anti-north and anti-Hindi and are on their way to being anti-India atleast at the level of leaders leading them. I don't think the people are there yet, but these caste based and family run parties need to be phased out for a better future that focuses on improving people lives and not focus on caste, region, religion, freebies.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 01 Jul 2021 03:40

They have a particular allergy to Brahmins which is why I make it a point to state it up front.

Part of the problem may be there is a bit of disdain for Sikhi in their home state. There is a resentment in response. It is like an affront that there should be Hindus there at all. They have a feeling that the Jutt is the natural ruler amongst sikhs but when it comes to Hindus, he is just a jutt.

I used the word medieval here. Many Indian communities especially rural, have not established a modern identity. I can’t say I blame them.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 01 Jul 2021 04:02

Rsatchi wrote:and folks please call me Rajesh
and NO ji thanks

I see this 0ften among Brite. What is wrong in somebody 'JI'. It is normal Infian way Why so much hatered for this word. Why it insults you? Why you are happy with world 'folks'? We are not bad land ranch cowbiys . To us (Indians at least) word 'folks was introduced via rough talk in Hollywood films. Why unharmed and humble word 'ji ' irritates some of us? That is 1 Rupee question.
Nothing personal. Just felt to bring this out. And one more thing .Word 'ji' does not make you backwards and old. It kind you politeness. It is not only for old people.

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 01 Jul 2021 04:12

venkat_kv wrote:
Ambar wrote:
Take a bow to our new masters, our new lords in black cloaks from Shri Iftikhar Chaudhry school of law where the court makes rules, policies, oversees budget, provides guidelines on inflation, formulates agriculture and healthcare policies and also gives diktat on compensation for those who perished in once in a century pandemic. Why do we even need the pretenses of elections and democracy ? Let our milards run everything from panchayats to central government.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 049248.ece
Ambar Saar,
Its interesting to see who is exactly behind the PIL. The court has all but asked the govt to decide on exgratia amount no matter what it happens to be. They have dismissed the solicitor general comments that this is not a one time disaster. Perhaps they should be shown what govt has done for covid victims and people in general.
It seems that the esteemed court thinks the payment should come from the Center while only the only things states can do is give freebies and claim credit for themselves.
This will have a cascading effect as more people will try to claim covid deaths and then our assorted jholawallas will say see the number is quite high.
The other part is the effect of financaial burden placed on the center with already reduced taxes.
Something similar happened about 10-15 years back for farmers in undivided AP when exgratia was announced and a lot of small and marginal farmers committed suicide thinking their family will atleast get some amount the exgratia and can pay off the loan rather than taking more loan after crops failing or not getting enough for their produce.

The govt will have no other option but to further increase taxes and making things more difficult for an economy which is trying to get back on its feet. I don't think such judgements are given arbitrarily, the courts have turned to increasing activism and encroached upon both the legislative and the executive in the last 5 or 6 yrs, and i suspect it is with a specific agenda to make the govt look weak, helpless and to put as many obstacles as possible in its way. This is the same court which has no time to hear about barbarism in West Bengal where dozens have died and over 100 thousand are homeless due to post polls violence but has time to hear about these silly PIL which is well outside its purview.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 01 Jul 2021 04:12

I don't think the people are there yet, but these caste based and family run parties need to be phased out for a better future that focuses on improving people lives and not focus on caste, region, religion, freebies.

That is exactly what I mean by premodern identities. India is at a preindustrial stage of identity development which determines goals of society.

The goals of society need to be predicated on 'a better life for all citizens'.

Some have other ideas.

To put it in stark contrast does anyone think these values are that of industrialised, democratic, literate western countries?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z46gbhx ... el=WISH-TV

You can imagine the mocking questions put to me by white Canadians over this type of behaviour. Sigh.

nandakumar · Post by **nandakumar** » 01 Jul 2021 07:44

Ambar wrote:
Ex gratia for Covid deaths: Supreme Court orders Centre to frame guidelines within 6 weeks
A three-judge bench headed by Justice Ashok Bhushan, in its judgement, also directed the NDMA to ascertain within 6 weeks ex-gratia amount that can be paid to the family members of those who died due to the infection.
Take a bow to our new masters, our new lords in black cloaks from Shri Iftikhar Chaudhry school of law where the court makes rules, policies, oversees budget, provides guidelines on inflation, formulates agriculture and healthcare policies and also gives diktat on compensation for those who perished in once in a century pandemic. Why do we even need the pretenses of elections and democracy ? Let our milards run everything from panchayats to central government.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 049248.ece

Their lordships have only kicked the can down the road. They have merely said frame guidelines. You have to give the government some time. Then you may have to file another PIL complaining delay. Eventually the government can come out with a guideline which may or may not include any cash compensation. Then another PIL to say that the compensation is inadequate. Also remember that in the judgment the Court also that it is not on the realm of the judiciary to lay down the compensation amount.
The larger point is that the judiciary wants to preserve the autonomy of the Supreme Court in promotions to the higher judiciary. But it is equally sensitive to the sensitivities of a government in Executive authority. While this government may not be all powerful as say, Indira Gandhi in the 80s. It is not a pussycat like the one's we saw in the 90s and later. There is a bit of give and take.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 01 Jul 2021 08:43

sanjaykumar wrote:When they lost to the British, I bet they weren’t as quick to lick the British arse as the speed record holders, of whom I understand numbers this Sirsa fellow’s ancestor.

At least in the south - and this is not well known - it took the Brits more than a 150 years (1650-1800, approx.) of almost continuous fighting to "pacify" the south. Almost every place, be it Travancore or Arcot, Mysore or Nellore - every place put up stout resistance to the British. In fact, the early Indian Army and the Indian soldier earned its (his) reputation thanks to these wars*, so it was no one's case then that the southerners weren't martial. Heck, the first Army "rebellion" happened at Vellore Cantt at 1805, for reasons similar to what came by 52 years later. After that, and by 1857, most of the southern army had been disbanded as there was little need of local troops by that point, and since the Sikh and Gorkha soldiers aided the British in re-capturing the "rebel" areas held mostly by purbiya troops (who, again, were martial enough to have been recruited into the Army), they were designated as "martial races" as a matter of political expediency. That policy continued till independence with some unofficial spillover post that too. Also, this time (1857-1947) coincided with the Brits banning most Indian (esp southern) martial arts, some of which like Kalaripayattu (thankfully) went underground and so survive to this day, albeit in a milder form. But the damage to the martial traditions in the south had been done, as many erstwhile warrior communities took to other professions like tilling land or other trades.

* Empire's First Soldiers by D P Ramachandran is a great resource to learn more about these events.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 01 Jul 2021 09:05

rsingh wrote:
Rsatchi wrote:and folks please call me Rajesh
and NO ji thanks
I see this 0ften among Brite. What is wrong in somebody 'JI'. It is normal Infian way Why so much hatered for this word. Why it insults you? Why you are happy with world 'folks'? We are not bad land ranch cowbiys . To us (Indians at least) word 'folks was introduced via rough talk in Hollywood films. Why unharmed and humble word 'ji ' irritates some of us? That is 1 Rupee question.
Nothing personal. Just felt to bring this out. And one more thing .Word 'ji' does not make you backwards and old. It kind you politeness. It is not only for old people.

Yes, I too wonder the same, and have noticed it mostly in English speaking Indians and BRFites - is it perhaps because we mentally equate "ji" to the English "sir" or "Mr"? These English salutations are used in formal settings only and usually only for elder people, maybe we carry that equivalence here. Yes, there is a case to be made for this equivalence, but "ji" seems to be used in more informal settings as well, not just in Hindi, but other Indian languages, which have their own equivalents - garu, avargale, avare, etc. Funnily, only "ji" triggers these responses.

A humorous aside: the Hindi-hating TN has taken "ji" to an extreme level; it has become a term of addressing people by itself instead of being a respectful suffix. For example, "ji, please do this", "ji, where are you", etc. Ironically, it started as way to mock the Hindi-addicted northern BJP, and its supporters in TN, but eventually became more widely adopted in everyday use