Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 08 Feb 2022 13:00

Biden pledges end to Nord Stream 2 if Russia invades Ukraine

Washington: US President Joe Biden said on Monday that the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline would be halted if Russia invades Ukraine and stressed unity with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz as the West rallies to avert a war in Europe.

At a White House press conference with the new German leader, Biden, a longtime opponent of the decade-old pipeline project to Germany from Russia, said Russian forces crossing into Ukraine would trigger a shutdown.

“If Russia invades, that means tanks or troops crossing the ... border of Ukraine again, then there will be ... no longer a Nord Stream 2. We, we will bring an end to it,” Biden said.

Asked how, given the project is in German control, Biden said: “I promise you, we’ll be able to do it.” Scholz said the United States and Germany had the same approach to Ukraine, to Russia and to sanctions, but did not directly confirm the Nord Stream 2 plans or mention the pipeline publicly by name over the course of his day-long visit.

Whether the United States and Germany are on the same page over the $11 billion project has become a crucial question as the two major democracies lead NATO allies in pushback against Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 08 Feb 2022 14:00

This Russian "invasion" of Ukraine reminds me of Assad fall from Syria.

They were both quite imminent.

Y. Kanan · Post by **Y. Kanan** » 08 Feb 2022 21:27

This is all a trap for Russia, a trap laid by the US with the assistance of Turkey and Israel, with the Ukrainians acting as unwitting pawns. The purpose of this trap was to lure the Russians into invading Ukraine. Think about it: they armed and encouraged Ukraine into mobilizing an invasion force to retake Donbas, they gave them Javelins and drones from both Israel & Turkey, which the Ukrainians started using against DPR forces on the front lines. The Ukrainians cut off Crimea’s fresh water supply and amassed 125,000 troops w/2500 tanks & armored vehicles (this was in Spring 2021 and you never hear about it in the media). The Russians have been forced into this buildup, twice now (first in the Spring of 2021, then more recently in November 2021 up to the present).

Why? So the Europeans become completely dependent on the US, so that NATO is revitalized, so that the military industrial complex gets a new justification for massive spending, to distract the US public from its discontent with the Biden administration, to force the Europeans the buy US natural gas from now on (this one is huge, and overlooked), and to justify ruinous sanctions on Russia, to bleed them and make them look like the bad guys.

Israel wants Russia broken so they withdraw from Syria, Turkey wants the same so they can dominate the Middle East and Central Asia.

There are many powerful players and interests who’d benefit hugely from a Russo-Ukrainian war, and they’re collectively doing their best to get it started while trying to appear innocent at the same time. I’m surprised more analysts aren’t pointing all this out.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 08 Feb 2022 23:09

I agree with most of what you said, but don’t see Israel as instigator. The real winner in all of this are the Chinese. Countries like Russia and India have to be cut down to size for the new world order. Where you will have the US, EU and China in strategic control of resources, trade and financial assets. The rest must be managed. Asia will be in control of China.

srikandan · Post by **srikandan** » 08 Feb 2022 23:11

This seems like USA is trying to be relevant in Europe in the long term by ensuring that Russia and EU remain hostile -- Qatar is now a major-non-NATO ally like pakistan, and has been recruited to fill in the gaps so that USA can trigger a war once the alternativesa are in place. Not to mention the loss of revenue to Russia if nordstream 2 never comes operational. If Nordstream 2 is built, then Russia and EU long-term relationship will sideline USA in Europe, so the USA has to break this relationship to EU will remain militarily dependent on the US, and also remain in Europe for the long-term. That could explain the urgency in the USA to sabotage nordstream2.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 08 Feb 2022 23:16

Biden statement on Nordstream 2 and no such statement from Germany or any European rep is a clear indication that "old Europe" is not ready to play ball with US instigation and precipitation of the crisis with Russia. US appears increasingly desperate for Putin to invade. News media is fed with US viewpoint of Russia ready to takeover Ukraine in a quick war lasting 48 hours.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 10 Feb 2022 18:33

This is getting comical : taking a leaf from the Paki book of 10000000000000000 soldiers in Kashmir, BBC is claiming there are 200K Russian soldiers on Ukraine borders. Yesterday the number was at 130K…

In an effort to make himself relevant the British PM claimed he will start an insurgency in Ukraine and was going to table legislation for sanctions…

kit · Post by **kit** » 10 Feb 2022 19:21

Tanaji wrote:This is getting comical : taking a leaf from the Paki book of 10000000000000000 soldiers in Kashmir, BBC is claiming there are 200K Russian soldiers on Ukraine borders. Yesterday the number was at 130K…

In an effort to make himself relevant the British PM claimed he will start an insurgency in Ukraine and was going to table legislation for sanctions…

With his own chair shaky , bore is would try to hold onto any straw that could keep him afloat !..guy has said it would take a tank Division to get him out of No 10.
His foreign secy has trouble differentiating the baltic from the black sea !!

kit · Post by **kit** » 10 Feb 2022 19:23

prahaar wrote:US appears increasingly desperate for Putin to invade. News media is fed with US viewpoint of Russia ready to takeover Ukraine in a quick war lasting 48 hours.

Yes quite true..the deep state is itching for a war in Europe

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 10 Feb 2022 22:36

As I explained here viewtopic.php?p=2532983#p2532983 it's important to recognize that NATO is an entity with its own interests.

The interests are
1) Maintaining its fig-leaf of "relevance" so that US and European govts continue to pump its babucracy with virtually unlimited funds
2) Not having to actually fight or risk any losses.

If Putin invades Ukraine it's a win-win for NATO.

Ukraine is not currently in NATO because its borders are disputed and it's embroiled in a current conflict (therefore, it cannot be inducted per the terms of the NATO charter).

If Putin does not invade Ukraine, and some sort of stable peace agreement is hammered out between Kiev, Moscow, and the Crimea/Donbass republics, there is a chance that the new Ukraine (with post-agreement borders) would become eligible for NATO membership in the coming months/years. However, if Putin invades, that eliminates the chances of Ukraine being inducted into NATO for the foreseeable future.

This serves NATO's interest number 2.

However, the whole drama of an invasion would allow NATO to present itself as the only shield between US-allied European countries and a newly aggressive Russia. This serves NATO's interest number 1.

The Americans frequently accuse Putin of wanting to perpetuate instability as his endgame. However, that is exactly the endgame of NATO in this situation: perpetual instability, at least in Ukraine.

srikandan · Post by **srikandan** » 10 Feb 2022 22:59

Germany has backed itself into a corner by rejecting nuclear power in favour of natural gas, so relations with Russia are more crucial than ever. They reject nuclear power as a green energy, even though their carbon emissions rose a lot when they shut down nuclear power.

https://sustainabilitymag.com/net-zero/ ... clear-tech

Germany's "renewable energy" 100BEuro program delivers "effectively zero" power.

https://worldnewsera.com/news/startups/ ... s-startup/

Germany can make sure it gets steady russian gas in winters for the long term, or add natural gas supply unpredictability, when Germany moves to natural gas. With no nuclear and renewable energy in the mix, and depending on France for nuclear power and Russia for Natural gas -- the economic logic for EU countries will not allow a conflict that would cut their main energy supply without an alternative.

kit · Post by **kit** » 11 Feb 2022 03:23

Do they even have a viable alternative? ..none of the Gulf states incl Qatar are viable., and forget the US !!

Look at the shrills of Boris and co., compared to measured responses from Macron and Scholz

and oh .. here is something for the lateral thinkers..

why not break up Russia !!

.. or at least plan B - Get Putin and his Oligarchs out., a nice drawn out low intensity conflict in Ukraine will do the trick

End of the day ., money and oil talks. Period.

All one need to see is how the western population is being fed with the particular narrative.. Russia bad., Putin worse

Malayappan · Post by **Malayappan** » 11 Feb 2022 08:36

https://twitter.com/leonidragozin/statu ... 8096875525
Kommersant sources say the following exchange happened.
Lavrov: Do you recognize Russian sovereignty over Rostov and Voronezh regions?
Truss: UK will never recognize Russian sovereignty over these two regions.
Then British ambassador had to intervene.

Kommersant link here: https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/5207486 Google Translate works!

If true, how clueless!

kit · Post by **kit** » 11 Feb 2022 10:35

Malayappan wrote:https://twitter.com/leonidragozin/statu ... 8096875525
Kommersant sources say the following exchange happened.
Lavrov: Do you recognize Russian sovereignty over Rostov and Voronezh regions?
Truss: UK will never recognize Russian sovereignty over these two regions.
Then British ambassador had to intervene.

Kommersant link here: https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/5207486 Google Translate works!

If true, how clueless!

Lavrov wiped the floor with Truss .. he could easily make out ineptitude.. moral of story..don't play around with a seasoned diplomat

Un prepared deaf mute etc were some endearing terms used

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 11 Feb 2022 17:39

‘Things could go crazy quickly,’ Biden warns on Ukraine as talks in Berlin fail

US president Joe Biden has warned that “things could go crazy quickly” in Ukraine and again urged American citizens to leave immediately, as the UK’s defence secretary headed to Moscow in the latest round of diplomacy.

“American citizens should leave, should leave now,” Biden said in an interview with NBC News. “We’re dealing with one of the largest armies in the world. This is a very different situation and things could go crazy quickly.”

On Friday, UK defence secretary Ben Wallace joins foreign secretary Liz Truss in Moscow after she held frosty talks with her Russian counterpart, Sergei Lavrov. Lavrov said the meeting was like a conversation of “the mute with the deaf”. Wallace will reportedly tell Sergei Shoigu, the Russian defence minister, that invading Ukraine would be a “lose-lose” situation.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 11 Feb 2022 17:46

EXPLAINER: Putin’s Ukraine strategy mixes threats, diplomacy

“The whole idea as envisaged by Putin ... was not to solve the Ukrainian crisis by means of war, but to bring the West to the negotiations table about principles of European security arrangements,” Lukyanov noted. “The moment Russia starts a war against Ukraine, the whole previous game will be over and the new game will happen at an absolutely different level of risk. And all we know about Mr. Putin is that he is not a gambler. He is a calculated player.”

While Putin and his officials have insisted they expect the U.S. and NATO to bow to Russia’s demands — a prospect that looks all but impossible — some Kremlin-watchers expect Moscow to eventually accept a compromise that would help avoid hostilities and allow all sides to save face.

Even though Western allies won’t renounce NATO’s open-door policy, they have no intention to embrace Ukraine or any other ex-Soviet nation anytime soon. Some analysts floated an idea of a potential moratorium on expanding the alliance.

Another possibility is the “Finlandization” of Ukraine, meaning that the country would acquire a neutral status, the way Finland did after World War II. The policy helped it maintain friendly ties with the Soviet Union throughout the Cold War.Such a move would represent a sharp revision of Kyiv’s course toward NATO membership and likely fuel strong domestic criticism, but the Ukrainian public could eventually welcome the policy twist as a lesser evil, compared with a Russian invasion.

Asked about the “Finlandization” idea, French President Emmanuel Macron told reporters Monday that “this is one of the models on the table,” but he backtracked the next day when he visited Kyiv.

Another potential compromise would likely include steps to defuse tensions in eastern Ukraine, which has been controlled by Russia-backed separatists since a rebellion flared up there in 2014 shortly after Moscow’s annexation of Ukraine’s Crimean Peninsula.

Russia has urged the West to press Ukraine to fulfill its obligations under a 2015 peace deal that was brokered by France and Germany and required Kyiv to offer self-rule to the rebel-held territories. The deal has been seen by Ukrainians as a betrayal of the country’s national interests and its implementation has stalled.

Macron this week described the agreement as “the only path allowing to build peace ... and find a sustainable political solution.”

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 11 Feb 2022 19:29

For those wondering about this extra big table and the distance between Putin and Macron during the French President's recent visit, the Russians gave the French side a choice. Either Macron gets tested for Covid in Russia or the Putin-Macron meeting will be socially distanced i.e. no handshakes and sit far apart. The French chose to avoid the Covid test because they did not want Russia to get their hands on Macron's DNA.

PARIS, Feb 11 (Reuters) - French President Emmanuel Macron refused a Kremlin request that he take a Russian COVID-19 test when he arrived to see President Vladimir Putin this week, to prevent Russia getting hold of Macron's DNA, two sources in Macron's entourage told Reuters.

As a result, the visiting French head of state was kept at a distance from the Russian leader during lengthy talks on the Ukraine crisis in Moscow.

They were photographed at opposite ends of a table so long that it provoked satirical comment on social media and speculation, including by diplomats, that Putin might be using it to send a message.

Macron refused Russian COVID test in Putin trip over DNA theft fears

I wonder what the testing protocol was during Putin's India visit in December. He and Modi were up close. Given the fact that the Russians are very careful about exposing Putin, what kind of testing regime satisfied them in India?

kit · Post by **kit** » 11 Feb 2022 21:38

Interesting question., maybe the Russians wanted a sample of the special Macaron DNA

srikandan · Post by **srikandan** » 11 Feb 2022 21:44

Surely there are more efficient and quiet was of collecting DNA from international figures than in an internationally publicized test -- it is not like Macron has to be in Russia for this DNA to be collected, to do what exactly? Smells like western propaganda BS.

kit · Post by **kit** » 11 Feb 2022 21:48

srikandan wrote:Surely there are more efficient and quiet was of collecting DNA from international figures than in an internationally publicized test -- it is not like Macron has to be in Russia for this DNA to be collected, to do what exactly? Smells like western propaganda BS.

No DNA., Putin knows how to send a message across without talking

He has taken the whole bunch of western leaders into a hall of mirrors and left them wondering whats going on

UK was very quick to latch onto the bait

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 11 Feb 2022 22:41

This is all very bizzire… we have Blinken claiming Russia will attack during Olympics and Biden claiming all Americans should leave. It is almost they are begging Putin to attack. Then Ukraine is claiming Russia has enforced a naval blockade. If thats true is t that an act of war in itself? Then there was the performance of United Poodledom’s foreign secretary as if her country matters….

You couldn’t write a more farcical script

srikandan · Post by **srikandan** » 11 Feb 2022 22:49

Russia is just doing a sneak preview of what Ukraine can expect if they roll over to USA's wishes and initiate a conflict -- there is no question that the US wants war in Ukraine.

The color-revolution Ukraine conflict in 2014 started with the Sochi winter olympics, so this new american war is ripe for initiation by the end of Beijing olympics

https://nypost.com/2022/02/10/russia-st ... us-moment/

Note the entire article does mention the really stupid and ignorant statement by the UK official Truss that the region where Russian tanks stand are not a part of Russia -- a case study in spinning news.

’m honestly disappointed that our conversation turned out like the mute with the deaf. We appear to be listening but we’re not hearing anything,” said the grim-faced Russian diplomat. “Our detailed explanations fell on unprepared ground.”

“It’s like when they say that Russia is waiting for the ground to freeze so that tanks can easily enter Ukraine,” he added. “It seems that our British colleagues were on similar [frozen] ground today, off of which bounced all the facts we presented them.”

Lavrov again denied that Russia intended to invade Ukraine, and blamed Britain and the US for escalating tensions by deploying forces in Eastern Europe.

British media reported it without spin.

https://inews.co.uk/news/world/russias- ... ns-1452975

Financial Times Moscow Bureau chief Max Seddon said the meeting made for uncomfortable viewing. “The public dressing-down Lavrov gave Liz Truss was so brutal, and the gap between them so yawning, you almost have to wonder why they even had the meeting – and Lavrov did indeed wonder that aloud during an excruciating press conference in Moscow,” he tweeted.

Journalist at the Moscow based Kommersant newspaper, Elena Chernenko, said Mr Lavrov asked if Ms Truss would “recognise Russia’s sovereignty over Rostov and Voronezh oblasts?” She replied the UK would “never” do so, before she was told they’re not in Ukraine.

The meeting between the two leaders is the first talks between the top diplomats in more than four years after Russia-UK ties were badly strained by the poisoning of Russian spy, Sergei Skripal in England in March 2018.

It’s not the first time Ms Truss has been the target of Russian ire. Last week she was mocked by Russia’s foreign ministry after saying the UK would send aid to our “Baltic allies across the Black Sea”.

“Mrs Truss, your knowledge of history is nothing compared to your knowledge of geography,” Foreign Ministry spokesperson, Maria Zakharova, wrote in a blog post. “If anyone needs saving from anything, it’s the world, from the stupidity and ignorance of British politicians.”

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 11 Feb 2022 23:20

Liz Tuss's tough talk visit was mostly smokes and mirrors. For all we know, behind the closed doors she may be carrying messages from diaper by-then or begging for russ oligarchs to park their money in the crumbling city of lon-done. No one takes uKay seriously.

Movers and shakers are trying to revive Midcat project to counter NS2, which was shelved 6-7 years ago. France was opposed to it. If it were to get any close to operational status, Algeria and Libya are toast. Well, gadafi's homeland is already in shambles, except oil exports which no one talks about.

Rudradev had two good posts explaining russ behavior, but, in long-run, russ is still relatively in a weak position despite all that mighty mil hardware, capabilities, and hybersonic mijjles. B'cas demographics economy are destiny, and they don't have as good of an offering for peripheral soviet states as youS, eYou. Yugoslavia experiment was a disaster, but how many Ukonazies have read history. Wyest is likely preparing building blocks for life after pootin.

(edited)
FWIW, caspianreport has a decent video on the next stages of the conflict (if it were to happen, small chances though)

Y. Kanan · Post by **Y. Kanan** » 12 Feb 2022 10:08

The certainty with which the Biden administration and the US media is predicting a Russian attack has me wondering if they're preparing a false flag. Make it look like Russia started shooting or something similar. Russia has not prepped its population for war and they have nothing to gain by invading Ukraine, yet Washington keeps screaming hysterically that the attack will happen at any moment. Do they know something we don't? Is a false flag already in motion?

kit · Post by **kit** » 12 Feb 2022 11:57

The Russian bear can be dangerous if provoked. This is a country that lost millions in the second world war and besides that, security underpins the Russian state., if the population is primed in such a way , then Russia can act as it itself is endangered.

Eerily reminds one of the Spanish bullfight

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 12 Feb 2022 14:39

First it was in a few days, then during Olympics, now the US is saying “any day” …

The US egged on by UK want Russia to invade. P@rn movies have better script than this…

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 12 Feb 2022 17:10

If there’s a false flag operation can the conflagration spread to east and south east Asia
Will there be quad vs quad in the east and south east
Russia China Pakistan North Korea vs India Japan Australia USA
Will we be sucked into an unwanted conflict??

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 12 Feb 2022 17:18

The quad is not a military alliance and getting sucked into a conflict does not arise

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 12 Feb 2022 19:43

We will definitely not get involved in the shooting; but the sanctions that will follow could make trade with Russia extremely complicated. The only beneficiary of any such invasion will be China.

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 12 Feb 2022 20:54

^^^pre Second World War treaties to go by and what unfolded later things tend to go south pretty quickly
And given ballistics missile capabilities amongst all don’t know which nitwit will press the self destruct button
And how far to trust the Western government will they accept hits to India as collateral damage and mollycoddle the Chinese

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 12 Feb 2022 21:06

Tanaji wrote:The quad is not a military alliance and getting sucked into a conflict does not arise

I doubt Russia launches an invasion into Ukraine, but the exercises are enough to get the US back to the negotiating table to reinstate the INF treaty and make reasonable accommodations for Russian security. Poland and Baltic republics that are part of NATO are troublesome from the Russian security point of view.

In 1962, the Chinese coordinated their attack with events between the US & USSR Cuban Missile Crisis. If the Russians are sharing planning information with the PLA, the PLA could launch an operation in the NE or Ladakh. If the PLA gets involved in Taiwan or starts shooting at USN forces in the South China Sea, India will have to provide logistics service, such as fuel and fresh water, to US forces based on bilateral treaties signed with the US.

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 12 Feb 2022 21:14

Headlines on CNN, "Pentagon moves some US forces out of Ukraine, says it's still supporting Ukraine's military"

Is this how unkil supports their ally? By pulling out forces when there is an imminent invasion? Especially months after unkil's reputation to hold ground took a tumble in Afghanistan?

Unkil is not stupid nor is Bear. Neither will directly fight the other - the cold war was entirely about the two fighting thru benamis in the 3rd world. So I think there will be a lot of grandstanding and eventually they will come to some face saving compromise acceptable to both sides. What bone bear can throw to unkil I have no idea - maybe bear can replace Ukraine administration with one acceptable to them (like in Belarus) and then in a grand gesture return Crimea to Ukraine and all will be good. Russia, Ukraine and Belarus can live together happily ever after.

srikandan · Post by **srikandan** » 12 Feb 2022 21:23

EU is going to GUBO to US/UK on Russia and force a conflict -- Russia has to invade to maintain a buffer zone de facto, and make that part pro-Russia -- Ukrainian nazis deserve whatever is coming to them, as do the racist mofos in the EU.

This also means Qatar will replace KSA as the munna of US/EU -- and Qatar drives Muslim Brotherhood and is the most islamist conservative kingdom that wants to release the Muslim Brotherhood on KSA and other monarchies, and has the support of the US to do this. Ilhan Omar is the official US liaison with Qatar and looks the US's "Grand Dragon of Religious Freedom" has Muslim Brotherhood credentials. If Nordstream2 goes down after the invasion, then Qatar value's rises for the white-colonial countries AUKUS/EU in taking on russia, which does not bode well for India.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 12 Feb 2022 21:29

kit wrote:
srikandan wrote:Surely there are more efficient and quiet was of collecting DNA from international figures than in an internationally publicized test -- it is not like Macron has to be in Russia for this DNA to be collected, to do what exactly? Smells like western propaganda BS.
No DNA., Putin knows how to send a message across without talking

He has taken the whole bunch of western leaders into a hall of mirrors and left them wondering whats going on

UK was very quick to latch onto the bait

After WWII, the britshits have developed a bad case of national erectile dysfunction that has left them politically and strategically impotent.

they now neither have the means nor the materiel of war to play a decisive part or even a bit part in a modest supporting role in any major confrontation.

however, the colonially inspired delusions of grandeur have not completely subsided and that has affected their psyche and the perverse need to prove their sovereignty of purpose to a skeptical europe and a hostile world that is increasingly looking down on them, post brexit.

they will have to plow a lonely furrow, as far as putin is concerned.

north sea oil is considered "scotland's oil" and were the britshits to enter into a prolonged argument with putin, the lurking ghost of scottish independence will rise to haunt the britshits fairly quickly.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 12 Feb 2022 21:33

srikandan wrote:EU is going to GUBO to US/UK on Russia and force a conflict -- Russia has to invade to maintain a buffer zone de facto, and make that part pro-Russia -- Ukrainian nazis deserve whatever is coming to them, as do the racist mofos in the EU.

the germans have forsaken nuclear power and are now heavily committed to gas from putin's russia. Unhappy germany and an unhappy france could cause irreparable dissensions in the EU.

The jehadis are waiting to strike and there may be no better time to do so.

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 12 Feb 2022 22:58

^^^^
Any invasion will act to bring the countries of the EU and NATO closer together. Alternatives to Russian gas will be developed at pace. The EU and NATO countries have the technical and financial resources to do so. Russia will find itself in the same position as North Korea; basically a Chinese puppet.

srikandan · Post by **srikandan** » 12 Feb 2022 23:10

Eklavya ji: Any invasion will act to bring the countries of the EU and NATO closer together. Alternatives to Russian gas will be developed at pace.

Those alternatives don't exist now, and if the US can create trouble for pipeline to EU from Russia, what makes them so sure that others cannot make a pipeline from the south infeasible. One look at the map of the existing pipelines would reveal that EU's alternatives do not exist yet, and cannot deliver the oil flow required to replace both nordstream pipelines.

The EU and NATO countrieevs have the technical and financial resources to do so. Russia will find itself in the same position as North Korea; basically a Chinese puppet.

Really now. The incompetent sh*theads in the US made a royal mess dealing with a bunch of rag tag jihadis in Afghanisthan, and now suddenly they are so competent that they will build pipelines and take on multiple asian powers at the same time, and win eh? And that too without putting any american troops at risk, but putting EU's energy future at risk ? Very convincing.

vijaykarthik · Post by **vijaykarthik** » 12 Feb 2022 23:11

Y. Kanan wrote: Why? So the Europeans become completely dependent on the US, so that NATO is revitalized, so that the military industrial complex gets a new justification for massive spending, to distract the US public from its discontent with the Biden administration, to force the Europeans the buy US natural gas from now on (this one is huge, and overlooked), and to justify ruinous sanctions on Russia, to bleed them and make them look like the bad guys.

Its just as easy to use this same thing against China instead of Russia. even if what you are saying its true, it still begs the qn - why Russia and why now when the pivot to Asia / Indo pacific is what the US wants the most. why get bogged down in EU?

vijaykarthik · Post by **vijaykarthik** » 12 Feb 2022 23:15

Malayappan wrote:https://twitter.com/leonidragozin/statu ... 8096875525
Kommersant sources say the following exchange happened.
Lavrov: Do you recognize Russian sovereignty over Rostov and Voronezh regions?
Truss: UK will never recognize Russian sovereignty over these two regions.
Then British ambassador had to intervene.

Kommersant link here: https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/5207486 Google Translate works!

If true, how clueless!

its indeed true. Inspite of the fact that Rostov and Voronezh are also places in Ukraine, Lavrov clearly asked about the regions (oblasts) and Truss had no idea about it and claimed that UK will never recognise Russian sovereignty over their own country.

A Deshmukh · Post by **A Deshmukh** » 12 Feb 2022 23:16

Any action in Ukraine bogs down Russia, EU (Germany).
US is free to supply arms and fuel conflict.
Chin is free to act against Taiwan and/or India.