Air Force Tejas Mk1: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 17 Feb 2022 01:09

>>If HAL wanted to tomorrow go and hire 100 more aeronautical engineers at market rates ( they cant, org rules dont allow).

false assumption, PSU's can and do employ 'consultants' at mkt rates, AFAIK it is covered by their rules as well. this, I am assuming is for more experienced engineers, for freshers I dont think they should have any problems attracting talent at their current salaries.

viveks · Post by **viveks** » 17 Feb 2022 01:35

SidSoma wrote:
viveks wrote: If they start to support meteor and super cruise and limited tvc on the mirage, it will out class anything.
And while we are at it.... how about some RAM coatings and implementation of Spectra as well

I think one could improve the Mirage turn rate by installing backward slanted cancards. Only wind tunnel tests would show.

YashG · Post by **YashG** » 17 Feb 2022 01:45

Rahul M wrote:>>If HAL wanted to tomorrow go and hire 100 more aeronautical engineers at market rates ( they cant, org rules dont allow).

false assumption, PSU's can and do employ 'consultants' at mkt rates, AFAIK it is covered by their rules as well. this, I am assuming is for more experienced engineers, for freshers I dont think they should have any problems attracting talent at their current salaries.

For programs ranging 5-8 years, you cant put consultants onboard indefinitely. And if they work on critical systems, you will want to absorb them and eventually at market rates. Consultant route can be creatively used but it doesnt liberate DPSUs from structural HRM weaknesses.Combined with all other shortcomings, we're hobbling our way to atmanirbharta. We will get there but u wish we get there much faster.

kit · Post by **kit** » 17 Feb 2022 16:41

Singapore Airshow 2022: India positions Tejas as most competitively priced light combat aircraft in market
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/indu ... -in-market
17 Feb 2022

The Indian Air Force (IAF) is showcasing its Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) in Singapore for the first time as part of efforts to position the platform for requirements in the region. The service has deployed three airframes to the country as part of the aircraft's debut at Singapore Airshow 2022, which runs from 15 to 18 February. One of the airframes took part in a static display alongside a delegation of Indian government officials who were there to explain the various features of the LCA. Speaking to Janes at the show, Tejas LCA pilot Group Captain Manish Tolani described the Tejas as a “4.5 Generation” fighter aircraft with proven capabilities across various climatic conditions, including the hot and humid weather across Southeast Asia.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 17 Feb 2022 18:40

Rehearsal videos

RishiChatterjee · Post by **RishiChatterjee** » 17 Feb 2022 20:42

uddu wrote:Rehearsal videos....

Today's was even better. Clean configuration this time.

vimal · Post by **vimal** » 17 Feb 2022 22:14

When will they stop saying Light combat aircraft? Just call it T1 or something

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 17 Feb 2022 22:46

vimal wrote:When will they stop saying Light combat aircraft? Just call it T1 or something

When we stop saying it ourselves. We have effectively pigeonholed ourselves by naming it and calling it LCA for decades.

vimal · Post by **vimal** » 17 Feb 2022 23:11

^^ Agreed. This is like calling a boy Chavanni even though his parents named him Atal Bihari Vajpayi. I understand colloquial usage but why is the offical HAL/IAF team using the LCA is beyond me.

LakshmanPST · Post by **LakshmanPST** » 17 Feb 2022 23:44

ADA should adopt a separate designation for all their fighter projects... Something like below:-
Indian Fighter:- IF1, IF2 etc.
Bharatheeya Fighter:- BF1, BF2 etc.
Yuddh Vimaan:- YV1, YV2 etc.
-
Reserve 1 no. for Marut as a honorary designation and start from 2...
Guess I'll stop here, OT to the thread...

RishiChatterjee · Post by **RishiChatterjee** » 18 Feb 2022 00:06

vimal wrote:When will they stop saying Light combat aircraft? Just call it T1 or something

HF-93 Tejas (marks the year of beginning)
&
HF-23 Tarit (marks the year of 1st flight of MWF)

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 18 Feb 2022 03:41

Jay wrote:
vimal wrote:When will they stop saying Light combat aircraft? Just call it T1 or something
When we stop saying it ourselves. We can effectively pigeonholed ourselves by naming it and calling it LCA for decades.

Perhaps because it is?

k prasad · Post by **k prasad** » 18 Feb 2022 07:42

The naming ought not to be focussed on the characteristics of the aircraft, but on its capabilities. 'Light' is a characteristic that doesn't do justice to the capabilities of the platform itself. We sorta continued that trend with AMCA, but ORCA seems more aligned to the capability-based naming.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 18 Feb 2022 08:56

k prasad wrote:The naming ought not to be focussed on the characteristics of the aircraft, but on its capabilities. 'Light' is a characteristic that doesn't do justice to the capabilities of the platform itself. We sorta continued that trend with AMCA, but ORCA seems more aligned to the capability-based naming.

ADA should have a brand and comms team that should be in charge of this.....

asbchakri · Post by **asbchakri** » 18 Feb 2022 09:07

ks_sachin wrote:
k prasad wrote:The naming ought not to be focussed on the characteristics of the aircraft, but on its capabilities. 'Light' is a characteristic that doesn't do justice to the capabilities of the platform itself. We sorta continued that trend with AMCA, but ORCA seems more aligned to the capability-based naming.
ADA should have a brand and comms team that should be in charge of this.....

How is LCA different than AMCA, If we are talking about naming them as per their weight. I think we should stick to the name we have for this thread.

sajaym · Post by **sajaym** » 18 Feb 2022 14:23

It's not only in the naming, ADA / HAL is also doing themselves a great disservice by sending only the AF single seater to airshows. They should be sending a twin seater AND an NLCA also along with the AF single seater. This way we'll be able to showcase how the LCA program is a comprehensive fighter program with multiple variants. I also remember many years back, Indian journalists and VIPs were given joyrides in rafales, MIG-35s, F-16s and F-18s. I think we should also do this.

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 18 Feb 2022 15:26

sajaym wrote:It's not only in the naming, ADA / HAL is also doing themselves a great disservice by sending only the AF single seater to airshows. They should be sending a twin seater AND an NLCA also along with the AF single seater. This way we'll be able to showcase how the LCA program is a comprehensive fighter program with multiple variants. I also remember many years back, Indian journalists and VIPs were given joyrides in rafales, MIG-35s, F-16s and F-18s. I think we should also do this.

Go to AEROINDIA exchibition. Indian journalists etc were given joyrides in most non-combat aircraft like C 17, C130 etc.

I think only Mr Vishnu Som of NDTV was flown in combat aircraft.

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 18 Feb 2022 15:27

sajaym wrote:It's not only in the naming, ADA / HAL is also doing themselves a great disservice by sending only the AF single seater to airshows. They should be sending a twin seater AND an NLCA also along with the AF single seater. This way we'll be able to showcase how the LCA program is a comprehensive fighter program with multiple variants. I also remember many years back, Indian journalists and VIPs were given joyrides in rafales, MIG-35s, F-16s and F-18s. I think we should also do this.

I think we should concentrate on pushing Tejas n trainer and forget about NLCA for the time being

rags · Post by **rags** » 18 Feb 2022 15:52

sajaym wrote:It's not only in the naming, ADA / HAL is also doing themselves a great disservice by sending only the AF single seater to airshows. They should be sending a twin seater AND an NLCA also along with the AF single seater. This way we'll be able to showcase how the LCA program is a comprehensive fighter program with multiple variants. I also remember many years back, Indian journalists and VIPs were given joyrides in rafales, MIG-35s, F-16s and F-18s. I think we should also do this.

One consideration could be that there may be significant equipment differences between FOC single seater and the trainers. Once the Mk-1's (FOC) 2 seaters are produced, they could be sent as well.

Update: Upon further research, there is this https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 685568.ece article, which says that trainers have not been delivered to the IAF until the FOC variants are produced.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 18 Feb 2022 17:59

vimal wrote:When will they stop saying Light combat aircraft? Just call it T1 or something

Agree.

asbchakri · Post by **asbchakri** » 18 Feb 2022 19:18

Kersi D wrote:
sajaym wrote:It's not only in the naming, ADA / HAL is also doing themselves a great disservice by sending only the AF single seater to airshows. They should be sending a twin seater AND an NLCA also along with the AF single seater. This way we'll be able to showcase how the LCA program is a comprehensive fighter program with multiple variants. I also remember many years back, Indian journalists and VIPs were given joyrides in rafales, MIG-35s, F-16s and F-18s. I think we should also do this.
I think we should concentrate on pushing Tejas n trainer and forget about NLCA for the time being

I agree on the Concentrating on Trainer, but I do not quite agree on NLCA. I believe we need to continue on both Trainer and NLCA. Continuing Testing and development on NLCA gives invaluable experience by the time TEDBF comes online.

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 18 Feb 2022 20:20

ks_sachin wrote:
Jay wrote:
When we stop saying it ourselves. We can effectively pigeonholed ourselves by naming it and calling it LCA for decades.
Perhaps because it is?

How is it working out from a marketing perspective? Just because someone is short, its silly to call them "Chotu" when they are doing monumental things.

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 18 Feb 2022 20:21

asbchakri wrote:
How is LCA different than AMCA, If we are talking about naming them as per their weight. I think we should stick to the name we have for this thread.

It is not and AMCA as a designation and a moniker should not be used.

Barath · Post by **Barath** » 20 Feb 2022 19:11

@Rakesh : Could you edit in the blueskies podcasts onto page 1 please ?

They are a tremendous resource as they feature detailed interviews with Test pilots and other influential folks involved in the program

https://blueskiespodcast.com/episodes on multiple platforms

https://blueskiespodcast.com/transcripts for transcripts

The LCA and LCA Navy youtube playlist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-2UJOr ... neRL0AG_MQ

In fact, you could even treat some of them similar to Hamara Tejas - with individual links

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 21 Feb 2022 02:23

Jay wrote:
ks_sachin wrote:
Perhaps because it is?
How is it working out from a marketing perspective? Just because someone is short, its silly to call them "Chotu" when they are doing monumental things.

But it is light ya?
And everyone agrees that the MK2 is in response to the aero dynamics shortcomings and size limitations?
Those who buy and evaluate aircraft are not stupid enough to be confused by names yes?

Ganesh_S · Post by **Ganesh_S** » 21 Feb 2022 12:27

Jay wrote:
ks_sachin wrote:
Perhaps because it is?
How is it working out from a marketing perspective? Just because someone is short, its silly to call them "Chotu" when they are doing monumental things.

On the contrary, it fits well within the marketing philosophy. Nothing wrong in playing to its strengths. It is light, agile and affordable which is what many countries are looking for. Why are we even taking offense?

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 21 Feb 2022 12:37

asbchakri wrote:
Kersi D wrote:
I think we should concentrate on pushing Tejas n trainer and forget about NLCA for the time being
I agree on the Concentrating on Trainer, but I do not quite agree on NLCA. I believe we need to continue on both Trainer and NLCA. Continuing Testing and development on NLCA gives invaluable experience by the time TEDBF comes online.

I think I have been misunderstood

We continue to work on NLCA but we forget about exporting it till IN actually uses it

Barath · Post by **Barath** » 21 Feb 2022 20:47

asbchakri wrote:
Kersi D wrote:
I think we should concentrate on pushing Tejas n trainer and forget about NLCA for the time being
I agree on the Concentrating on Trainer, but I do not quite agree on NLCA. I believe we need to continue on both Trainer and NLCA. Continuing Testing and development on NLCA gives invaluable experience by the time TEDBF comes online.

I was wondering what is the point of spending scarce testing and development resources on testing NLCA instead of applying them to TEDBF. Then I read Cmdr Malgaonkar (LCA Navy test pilot) on blue skies podcast who was talking about the constraints on the LCA Navy, and how it was initially positioned as a product when it should have been a tech exploratory project, and how the models used for analysis often were derivatives of the baseline Tejas, and its next derivative the two seater and thus necessarily imperfect. And how carrier suit testing still left a lot unexplored (eg tyre behaviour/condition).

I still think it may serve better to keep consistent exploration and development/testing for the TEDBF, which will be its own plane, design and design model/analysis baseline, and different in many ways from LCA Navy. But if there is any useful exploration to be made on LCA Navy, without delaying TEDBF thereby, more power to them

It's hard to impossible to get a tech exploration project approved in India, but necessary to do so.

But forget about LCA Navy for IOC for Navy. That decision is gone. As is exports..

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 21 Feb 2022 21:06

Barath wrote:@Rakesh : Could you edit in the blueskies podcasts onto page 1 please ?
....
In fact, you could even treat some of them similar to Hamara Tejas - with individual links

Done Sirjee. Please take a look at the first post of this thread and let me know.

Added Later ---> The podcasts links all point to just part 8, so I put the youtube links instead.

basant · Post by **basant** » 22 Feb 2022 00:05

Not sure of authenticity but here it is:
From Twitter

SkyScanWorld @scan_sky
EX COBRA WARRIOR 22-1
7th - 25th March

Waddington
5X Indian HAL Tejas
4X support aircraft (Tankers not confirmed as of yet)

Coningsby
8 X Royal Saudi AF Typhoons
Rumoured Saudi AF Tornado’s
RAF Typhoons

Marham F35s

Lakenheath F15s & F35s
12:16 PM · Feb 21, 2022

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 22 Feb 2022 00:18

I really hope this turns out to be true.

Long overdue for Tejas to take part in international air exercises. Good learning opportunity for Tejas crews.

basant · Post by **basant** » 22 Feb 2022 01:20

Can't agree more, admiral!

KSingh · Post by **KSingh** » 22 Feb 2022 02:49

My post about LCA going to U.K. for Ex Cobra warrior is deleted/missing, Ex starts second week of March. Let’s hope it’s true. If possible I’ll try and get up there to see this beauty in person. That’s a lifelong ambition for me

+ any idea when LCA gets into hands of TACDE?

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 22 Feb 2022 12:14

RishiChatterjee wrote:
vimal wrote:When will they stop saying Light combat aircraft? Just call it T1 or something
HF-93 Tejas (marks the year of beginning)
&
HF-23 Tarit (marks the year of 1st flight of MWF)

There was a HF 73. It was to be built with Eygptian jet engines. But 1973 Yom Kippur war pout an end to these plans

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 22 Feb 2022 12:35

Kersi D wrote:.

I think only Mr Vishnu Som of NDTV was flown in combat aircraft.

No Sudhir Chaudhary, Suman Sharma & Shiv aroor have also flown.

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 22 Feb 2022 13:58

Manish_Sharma wrote:
Kersi D wrote:.

I think only Mr Vishnu Som of NDTV was flown in combat aircraft.
No Sudhir Chaudhary, Suman Sharma & Shiv aroor have also flown.

Lucky &^##%%^%

uskumar · Post by **uskumar** » 22 Feb 2022 14:28

vayu reports that tejas will participate in British Exercise COBRA WARRIOR'22

https://twitter.com/ReviewVayu/status/1 ... -hhYzWv9Lg

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 22 Feb 2022 15:05

I wrote a 20 page article around 2 years year back and posted on BRF & DFI. Using studies from F-16XL, I wrote that the drag for Delta wing is lesser compared to conventional swept back wing even though wing area of Delta is larger. Hence LCA has very good acceleration and range. It’s payload range matrix is better than Jaguar and almost near Mirage 2000. Off course everyone jumped on me and called the Article ridiculous. Now LCA MK1 has demonstrated a ferry range of 3200km. As it is a peace time ferry to international airport, thus real ferry range will be around 4000km. (So in a way, I feel vindicated) Now Indranil is also using example of F-16XL (the pivot of my article) to show Delta wing has 40% better range on twitter. Now I will go out on a limb again by claiming that LCA MK1 will soon mature enough to be equivalent to Mirage 2000 (with perhaps use of dual rack pylons, better drop tanks) with MTOW of 15 tons going upto 15.5 tons in LCA MK1A. And LCA MK1A performance, payload, range matrix will be better than Mirage 2000 (slightly)

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 22 Feb 2022 15:41

^ I remember that.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 22 Feb 2022 16:19

IIRC, our badminton champ PV Sindhu also got a ride in LCA !

There was a movie being made on Tejas starring Kangana Ranaut, not sure if she took a sortie, or what happened to the film.

LCA needs more publicity in India and abroad.