Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 22 Feb 2022 01:42

https://twitter.com/UkrWarReport/status ... 0VyQz6De7g Venezuela, Cuba, and Nicaragua will allegedly recognize the LPR and DPR following Russian recognition.

nam · Post by **nam** » 22 Feb 2022 01:49

Looks like GoI had some inclination of things heating up.. when we suddenly get the news about "PMO cancelling imports".

Just like 1991, we are again caught in a blind with huge Russian stockpile. It is time we come to our senses.

In some way it is a silver lining where Russian kit becomes a hot potato..and US kit is looked at suspicion.. leaving us no other option then to go local.

DRDO will be asked to speed up XRSAM and S400 might become another AW-101... But then we are known for doing AW-101 deal

nam · Post by **nam** » 22 Feb 2022 01:53

NATO will not fight a war for Ukraine. Which European country will be ready to get in an random war with a superpower over earning euros from tourist!

There will be lot of noise, sanctions on Russia etc.. but NATO will watch on the sides..

It will become difficult for us, but then this is a good lesson for our Services.

achy · Post by **achy** » 22 Feb 2022 02:08

The main Russian objective is to dismantle the western order. The contested Donbass region was already a breakway region and Russia could have used any ploy to send its troop if Ukraine would have used direct force. By recognizing these as separate territories they have upped the ante and put the west in a bind to respond. If they dont then western order is as good as dead and many adventurist states, and there are many, will take appropriate signals and act accordingly. Whatever happens now will not be good for India. Our best Interest was a slow crumbling existing order, not its sudden demise. Historically we have consistently played wrong cards after independence; so I hope current dispensation will choose and act wisely.

John · Post by **John** » 22 Feb 2022 02:22

nam wrote:Looks like GoI had some inclination of things heating up.. when we suddenly get the news about "PMO cancelling imports".

Just like 1991, we are again caught in a blind with huge Russian stockpile. It is time we come to our senses.

In some way it is a silver lining where Russian kit becomes a hot potato..and US kit is looked at suspicion.. leaving us no other option then to go local.

DRDO will be asked to speed up XRSAM and S400 might become another AW-101... But then we are known for doing AW-101 deal

Tushil and Tamala Frigates might be write off at this point if invasion goes ahead or even current recognition will likely result in Ukraine halting deliveries. It was foolish to buy them and also manufacture them locally.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 22 Feb 2022 02:28

nam wrote:Looks like GoI had some inclination of things heating up.. when we suddenly get the news about "PMO cancelling imports".

Just like 1991, we are again caught in a blind with huge Russian stockpile. It is time we come to our senses.

In some way it is a silver lining where Russian kit becomes a hot potato..and US kit is looked at suspicion.. leaving us no other option then to go local.

DRDO will be asked to speed up XRSAM and S400 might become another AW-101... But then we are known for doing AW-101 deal

The S-400 is not the AW-101 deal. It was signed in 2016 and making such insinuations is irresponsible. The S-400 may not work as desired due to technical problems, its missiles are really good, but target detection is questionable and the whole setup doesn't look like a "game changer".

The US press is claiming that Russia has 70% of its military capacity surrounding Ukraine. I don't know how true that is, but India better be able to hold back payment for non delivery or substandard items of Russian systems. The other thing to watch out for is PLA movements in the Himalayas or in Tibet itself. We don't know if Russian planners are passing on information or are being paid by the PLA.

If the racist white Europeans get into another war, they need to be given a severe lecture on civilized behavior with the prospect of starting a nuclear war. I hope the Indian press is up for this, but I doubt it as much of it is the lifafa press.

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 22 Feb 2022 03:47

Today's speech by Putin has highlighted how deeply the dissolution of the USSR has impacted Putin's perception of the evolution of history since then in general and the treatment of Russia by the West in particular. And for Putin it is not just historical, as if it was some other Russian/Soviet leader who has experienced this history. Putin himself for the first 7 years of his Presidency, was receptive to the West e.g. by facilitating US access to Afghanistan post 9/11 so the US could avoid 100% dependence on Pakistani access. Clearly he feels that he was rebuffed and is now prepared for a very confrontational relationship with the West.

Critical sanctions on cutting of Russia from SWIFT as well as a boycott of Russian oil and gas are off the table thanks to the Europeans. Other possible financial sanctions such as blocking Russian companies from accessing funding on the London or New York markets is something that they have weaned themselves off in the last few years so will not have a meaningful impact.

It will be interesting to see China's reaction to all this.

This confrontation has sharply highlighted India's vulnerability via the overwhelming dependence on Russian arms as well as the challenge of keeping Russia onside or at the minimum neutral in the confrontation with China. But at this time, Russia needs China more than India as it confronts the West. What will be China's price for that support to Russia? Will India be a factor in that price?

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 22 Feb 2022 04:19

https://www.news18.com/news/world/the-w ... 10125.html The World Outside: The Ukraine Crisis is Closer Home for India than You Think

CAATSA sanctions looming on India vis a vis s400 SAM system

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 22 Feb 2022 04:46

^^^Be wary of such authors of news reports. They most likely have a different agenda and will use any international crisis to beat up on India, or worse yet, conspire with BIF to ensure India gets damaged.

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 22 Feb 2022 04:57

Give it a month, expect South China sea to heat up.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 22 Feb 2022 05:07

kit wrote: Nothing sinister , just wiki

Good to know. The WA message was copied from Wikipedia but twists into something totally crappy. Probably some duffers who thought that they can pass off as these great "anal-ists" who have great "no-ledge"

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 22 Feb 2022 05:10

ldev wrote:Today's speech by Putin has highlighted how deeply the dissolution of the USSR has impacted Putin's perception of the evolution of history since then in general and the treatment of Russia by the West in particular. And for Putin it is not just historical, as if it was some other Russian/Soviet leader who has experienced this history. Putin himself for the first 7 years of his Presidency, was receptive to the West e.g. by facilitating US access to Afghanistan post 9/11 so the US could avoid 100% dependence on Pakistani access. Clearly he feels that he was rebuffed and is now prepared for a very confrontational relationship with the West.

Critical sanctions on cutting of Russia from SWIFT as well as a boycott of Russian oil and gas are off the table thanks to the Europeans. Other possible financial sanctions such as blocking Russian companies from accessing funding on the London or New York markets is something that they have weaned themselves off in the last few years so will not have a meaningful impact.

It will be interesting to see China's reaction to all this.

This confrontation has sharply highlighted India's vulnerability via the overwhelming dependence on Russian arms as well as the challenge of keeping Russia onside or at the minimum neutral in the confrontation with China. But at this time, Russia needs China more than India as it confronts the West. What will be China's price for that support to Russia? Will India be a factor in that price?

Biden is weak both Physically, mentally and politically (50% of americans think he is a danger to USA). This has opened a chance for Puting to reclaim some lost pride and also cement his own political power. This episode is putting the shivers in EU country pants. Suddenly USA is not able/villing to do much. Expect EU defence budgets to shoot up. Expect EU to turn away from Russian oil and gas. They certainly will not want to feed the monster that threatens them.

How this all will go down with the average Russians is yet to be seen.

For India:
I think the west will like to cooperate with India, because if they gets on the wrong side of India, it will be a lost cause for the west. Japan, South korea also need India to stay a democracy.

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 22 Feb 2022 05:16

I'm not sure why the dependence on Russian Arms a big issue. It has a lot to do with history and how we got here. Dependence on any foreign equipment is fraught with danger. So, its good time to wean away from foreign equipments.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 22 Feb 2022 08:12

I read that Ukraine amended its constitution in 2019 to state that it intends to join NATO. So yes, if Ukraine is no longer a viable buffer state, a full scale push by Russia towards West Europe cannot be ruled out.

John · Post by **John** » 22 Feb 2022 09:26

vera_k wrote:I read that Ukraine amended its constitution in 2019 to state that it intends to join NATO. So yes, if Ukraine is no longer a viable buffer state, a full scale push by Russia towards West Europe cannot be ruled out.

It doesn’t matter if they amended the constitution, Ukrainian public was against Joining Nato by a big margin. In fact some pro Russian candidates where starting gain in popularity especially with Trump-Ukraine debacle. But now Ukrainian public I suspect had changed its tone now and is starting to embracing the West

srin · Post by **srin** » 22 Feb 2022 11:15

srin wrote:
Russia can protect its interests without *officially* moving in. It can increase the temperature with full plausible deniability - plain-clothed special forces, arms to the separatists, small low-level encounters with UKR troops. Worst case, if they really want to press hard, a declaration of independence and a referendum.

The funny thing with the US crying wolf on invasion date etc is nobody is going to believe the US if a low level operation happens.

My yesterday's worst case assessment is already today's reality

pravula · Post by **pravula** » 22 Feb 2022 11:21

srin wrote:
srin wrote:
Russia can protect its interests without *officially* moving in. It can increase the temperature with full plausible deniability - plain-clothed special forces, arms to the separatists, small low-level encounters with UKR troops. Worst case, if they really want to press hard, a declaration of independence and a referendum.

The funny thing with the US crying wolf on invasion date etc is nobody is going to believe the US if a low level operation happens.
My yesterday's worst case assessment is already today's reality

It’s worse. “Peace keeping” troops are in…

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 22 Feb 2022 11:45

What's happening is Crimea 2.0
I shared Srin's assessment that Russia did not have to do more. However, if they sending troops into the separatist regions they will be formalizing the de-facto situation that existed, with Russian army being in the disputed region earlier, but with plausible deniability.
If Russia has upped the ante, they probably expected a Ukrainian attack on the separatists in Donetsk / Luhansk.

Current situation raises the following questions:
1. Will the Ukrainian army attack the separatist region to repel the Russian army ? If no Ukrainian is prepared to die to protect his country from
invasion, NATO is not going to have its troops doing so.
2. Will Russia confine itself to the separatist part of the Donetsk an Luhansk district, or go for occupation of the whole of the 2 districts. The current `independent' region of either district comprises about half the district's territory. The districts are divided by a ceasefire line.
3. Will the Ukrainian govt survive the loss of its territory ? The last govt that tried to take on Russia, lost Crimea.

If nothing else happens apart from sanctions - which Russia will learn to live with, Russia can withdraw its forces. NATO /Ukraine on the other hand will have to mobilise to a far greater extent. The cost will be enough to tank the Ukraine economy.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 22 Feb 2022 11:47

Putin orders Russian peacekeepers to eastern Ukraine's two breakaway regions

MOSCOW, Feb 22 (Reuters) - President Vladimir Putin ordered his defence ministry to despatch Russian peacekeepers to eastern Ukraine's two breakaway regions, according to a decree published early on Tuesday after he said Moscow would recognise their independence.

Putin earlier signed decrees to recognise the two breakaway regions -- the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic and the Lugansk People's Republic -- as independent statelets defying Western warnings that such a step would be illegal and kill off long-running peace negotiations.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 22 Feb 2022 11:48

U.S. slams Russian 'peacekeepers' in Ukraine as 'nonsense'

UNITED NATIONS, Feb 21 (Reuters) - The deployment of what Russia called a peacekeeping operation in eastern Ukraine is "nonsense" and Moscow's recognition of breakaway regions as independent is part of its pretext for war, the United States told the U.N. Security Council on Monday.

The consequences of Russia's actions "will be dire - across Ukraine, across Europe, and across the globe," U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations, Linda Thomas-Greenfield, told the emergency meeting of the 15-member council.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 22 Feb 2022 12:40

Deans wrote:1. Will the Ukrainian army attack the separatist region to repel the Russian army ? If no Ukrainian is prepared to die to protect his country from invasion, NATO is not going to have its troops doing so.

This is the puzzling part about all this. NATO seems to have egged the Ukraine on, and Ukraine in turn expected to join NATO to guarantee it's security. However, does NATO want to be at war with Russia? Does not seem winnable if the Afghans managed to get the better of NATO. If not, then what's the point of poking the bear when there is a stated red line?

I have a feeling this is a means to take the pressure off the PRC by focusing all attention on Europe. Or worse, its all about domestic US politics with the actual brunt borne by far off people.

Why NATO Has Become a Flash Point With Russia in Ukraine

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 22 Feb 2022 12:58

The real clues could be within the relationship Hunter Biden had with Ukraine during Obama's administration.

Trump got impeached when he tried to get the Ukrainian's to investigate the relationship. This is something that the deep state will go to any length in order to further and protect.

Add to that the line of credit extended to Hunter Biden by PRC. A picture of a deeply compromised ruling establishment emerges.

One could come up with a conspiracy theory that PRC is the puppet master of the Biden family and the US establishment ( gaining influence over the last few decades) they are pulling the strings to divert attention from what they are planning to accomplish in East Asia.

US gets involved in another war of choice further weakening itself. Russia even if it holds the line will be so weakened that it will not be able assert it self in far east.

Leaving PRC as the greatest power in East Asia.

mody · Post by **mody** » 22 Feb 2022 13:05

Putin has insulated the Russian economy against western sanctions to a large extent after 2014. Some economists/analysts like Ruchir Sharma, call it fortress Russia. They have almost zero external debt and foreign reserves in excess of $600 Billion.
It also opened the eyes of China and India. When VISA and Mastercard stopped operations in Russia almost overnight, following the 2014 sanctions in the wake of Crimea, China introduced its own credit card clearing companies and Indian government introduced RuPay. RuPay is now being expanded for acceptance in the middle east and south east Asia.
If Russia is removed from SWIFT or there a threat of the same, expect the Indian government to start pushing for UPI adoption in the middle east and elsewhere. Already some agreements have been signed with Singapore based company for interoperability. UPI is mush better and free of cost as compared to SWIFT. If UPI gets adopted in the middle east for remittance by Indian immigrants back to India, it would be a game changer. Free of cost instant money transfer, that's bank agnostic across boundaries.

The nature and severity of the sanctions will spur China to also start looking beyond the USD and in the long term, this would spell a decline for the USD based international financial system and with it the decline of US centric world order.

I think for the S-400 and the Talwar class frigates, India and Russia probably worked out some alternate payment arrangement to get past US sanctions, if they do materialise. Whether the engines for the two Frigates being built in Russia and the further two at GSL have been delivered or not is a question. If the engines for the two being built in Russia, have been delivered, then the frigates will come. If the engines have not been delivered then the project will get stuck. Other imports of Russian systems will be very difficult and this is good as the services will be forced to go with domestic systems as far as possible.

Would be interesting to watch what China does, if there is a further escalation. Will they up the ante in Ladakh or the South China sea or against Taiwn?

The Donbas region is the main industrial region in Ukraine and already Russia offers preferential import rules for manufactured goods from this region. Now with the separatist region being recognised as independent, they will defacto become part of Russia itself.
Will be interesting to see if they try to gain control of Mariupol, which is the main port for Ukraine. A loss of Mariupol would be a big blow for Ukraine.

mody · Post by **mody** » 22 Feb 2022 13:27

Another major consideration will be US public support for the present situation. At least 50% of the people are not in favour of the current goverment and the Biden's approval rating is already very low. The conflict will most likely lead to further inflation and losses on the stock market. The general public that have made a lot of money off the stock market and crypto etc. will have to now confront losses on their investments along with record high prices for a lot of the stuff. This will lead to further erosion of support for the government with a real chance of losses in the mid-term polls later in the year.

Biden will be caught in a bind. If he imposes only limited sanctions, he will be roasted by the GOP for being weak and if he takes a very tough line, many of the european allies might not back him, plus domestic economic repercussions, would put him in the tough position.

I think maybe Putin will stop with the effective annexation of Donetsk and Luhansk. Belarus will soon get Russian nukes on its soil and once Lukashenko is old enough or paid off sufficiently, I think Belarus will vote to be re-united with Russia and will become a part of Russia. This will put further pressure on all future governments in Ukraine and if a pro-russian government does come to power in Kyiv, one could expect some sort of loose alliance or federation with Russia. The old Kyvan-Rus will be reborn. Maybe in the future even Armenia could enter into a stronger alliance with fellow orthodox christian Russia, if it is facing too much of pressure from Turkey and Azerbaijan.

By the way 1,000 posts after more than 22 years on the Forum!!

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 22 Feb 2022 13:52

As long the current US establishment remains. We will not see free and fair election in Ukraine.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 22 Feb 2022 14:55

https://www.ft.com/content/8ba328f7-f00 ... 839b649dde Fresh sanctions may barely dent Fortress Russia [2021]

https://www.ft.com/content/a64c4cfe-030 ... 3de68ea58a Sanctions do work despite what the bankers say

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 22 Feb 2022 15:53

If India were invaded, or even if there's an infiltration attempt, I'm sure we'd all agree that our soldiers will fight to the death - even if the odds are hopeless. For that matter the Pak army will be as determined to defend its territory. That is the true test of weather you consider the place you are defending, to be your country.

If Ukraine wanted to stop the `invasion' of Crimea they could have. They had air bases in the Crimea, with Mig-29s, that would have wiped out
the largely unescorted Russian transport aircraft. Ukrainian army on the ground was enough to repel Russian seaborne landings. Not a single shot
was fired to defend the Crimea (compared to how fanatically the Red army defended it in 1941). The Ukrainian army acted in Donetsk/Luhansk, because the rebels were mostly armed civilians and they thought their police action would be over in a week. Once the Russian army was embedded with the local rebels and there was parity in weapons, the Ukies had less of an appetite for war. In the operations they did undertake, they had a level of incompetence similar to the Russians in the 1st Chechen war, 20 years earlier.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 22 Feb 2022 16:03

what beggars belief is US has fortress bombers to what not parked in East Europe including Ukraine (lethal aid and all) yet Ru was able to invade with ease and gobble as much territory as they wanted.
Moral: No one will fight your war!

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 22 Feb 2022 16:27

Will Russia stretch itself more? what happens next in Middle East?
Overall, this kicks off a series of events with gradually increasing uptick in violence everywhere.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 22 Feb 2022 16:29

IndraD wrote:what beggars belief is US has fortress bombers to what not parked in East Europe including Ukraine (lethal aid and all) yet Ru was able to invade with ease and gobble as much territory as they wanted.
Moral: No one will fight your war!

what the amerikis are trying in ukraine is a reverse "bay of pigs" gambit.

the europeans have their greedy eyes on "gas station" russia so they can spend comfortable winters and also keep their factories running.

S_Madhukar · Post by **S_Madhukar** » 22 Feb 2022 17:46

Unfortunately looks like Ukraine government is like MMS after 26/11 … pro US hoping to be the victim and have NATO rescue them or may be get a golden handshake and refugee status in the West. It will be the ordinary people on the ground that will suffer , the elite must have already bought properties abroad for this reason.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 22 Feb 2022 20:05

One more India-related angle to the burgeoning Russia-Ukraine situation, besides the possibility of China taking advantage on our northern border-- the repercussions with respect to Turkey.

Turkey was one of Russia's historical enemies through much of the Rurikid period and the Romanov period that followed. The Crimean Khanate, a Tatar satellite of the Ottomans that controlled much of today's Ukraine, was a major thorn in the Czars' side and also the biggest obstacle to Russia establishing a foothold on the Black Sea coastline.

Later, the Crimean War itself was an effort by Turkey, together with Britain and France (shades of what is going on today if you replace France with America) to roll back Russian access to the Black Sea so that it would be bottled up with only the cold-water port of Archangelsk.

So hostile Turkey/Russian competition has in fact centered around Ukraine among other theatres. The recent supply of Turkish drones to the Kiev government was no deviation from this norm.

Turkey's stock in NATO (and Erdogan's popularity in the West) had been steadily decreasing, for a number of reasons, over the past decade or so. But if the current Ukraine-Russia crisis devolves into hot war, the Anglo-Americans will rush to embrace Erdogan much as they rushed to embrace Musharraf after 9/11.

This will have far-ranging geopolitical consequences. The Turkey-Pakistan alliance is established fact, as is Erdogan's sympathy for the Taliban and his relentlessly anti-India stance on Kashmir. It is not as direct a factor as the possibility of China attempting to stir up trouble in Ladakh or Arunachal Pradesh, but something to keep in mind nonetheless.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 22 Feb 2022 22:41

First rescue flight from India lands in Kyiv to bring back citizens

New Delhi: Air India’s first of three flights landed in Ukraine’s capital Kyiv today to bring back Indian nationals as tension along the Russia-Ukraine border escalated on Tuesday.

Air India had earlier announced it would fly three Vande Bharat Mission flights to Ukraine. The planes will fly in and out of Kyiv’s Boryspil International Airport on February 22, 24, and 26.

Earlier in the day, the Indian embassy in Ukraine had asked students to return without waiting to confirm online classes by local universities.

India voiced “deep concern” over the border situation at a United Nations Security Council’s emergency meet on Monday. It told the UNSC that the immediate priority was to calm heightened sentiments, taking into account the “legitimate” security interests of all countries.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 22 Feb 2022 22:50

Rudradev wrote:One more India-related angle to the burgeoning Russia-Ukraine situation, besides the possibility of China taking advantage on our northern border-- the repercussions with respect to Turkey.

Turkey was one of Russia's historical enemies through much of the Rurikid period and the Romanov period that followed. The Crimean Khanate, a Tatar satellite of the Ottomans that controlled much of today's Ukraine, was a major thorn in the Czars' side and also the biggest obstacle to Russia establishing a foothold on the Black Sea coastline.

Later, the Crimean War itself was an effort by Turkey, together with Britain and France (shades of what is going on today if you replace France with America) to roll back Russian access to the Black Sea so that it would be bottled up with only the cold-water port of Archangelsk.

So hostile Turkey/Russian competition has in fact centered around Ukraine among other theatres. The recent supply of Turkish drones to the Kiev government was no deviation from this norm.

Turkey's stock in NATO (and Erdogan's popularity in the West) had been steadily decreasing, for a number of reasons, over the past decade or so. But if the current Ukraine-Russia crisis devolves into hot war, the Anglo-Americans will rush to embrace Erdogan much as they rushed to embrace Musharraf after 9/11.

This will have far-ranging geopolitical consequences. The Turkey-Pakistan alliance is established fact, as is Erdogan's sympathy for the Taliban and his relentlessly anti-India stance on Kashmir. It is not as direct a factor as the possibility of China attempting to stir up trouble in Ladakh or Arunachal Pradesh, but something to keep in mind nonetheless.

You are going for overkill regarding Turky. Has nothing to do in Ukraina . Let's not Alibaba stories in the name of strategic soch- vichar. SALAM.

John · Post by **John** » 22 Feb 2022 22:53

S_Madhukar wrote:Unfortunately looks like Ukraine government is like MMS after 26/11 … pro US hoping to be the victim and have NATO rescue them or may be get a golden handshake and refugee status in the West. It will be the ordinary people on the ground that will suffer , the elite must have already bought properties abroad for this reason.

Did you hear Putin speech it was outright declaration that Ukraine shouldn’t exist and seemed to be rambling more like 3rd world dictator than what we have seen from him. Not sure Covid lock downs have gotten to him or he his trying to appease the hardliners. Even the Chinese reportedly were stunned by it and reportedly expressed displeasure that it was not what Xi agreed to when he met Putin. Other than 3 countries you can see why most other Russian Allies including us, Vietnam, Algeria and Serbia all have kept quiet on this matter.

srin · Post by **srin** » 22 Feb 2022 22:58

If I were the US and want to piss off Putin, here's what I'd do:
* Make written promise that Ukraine wouldn't be part of NATO
* Create a new East European security organization with like-minded countries that hate Russia - Poland, etc - with an Article 5 equivalent. Let's call this "Warsaw Pact"

* Ukraine will then apply to join this and is welcomed.
* Eventually, there will be a mutual Article 5 between NATO and the Warsaw Pact.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 22 Feb 2022 23:25

John wrote:
S_Madhukar wrote:Unfortunately looks like Ukraine government is like MMS after 26/11 … pro US hoping to be the victim and have NATO rescue them or may be get a golden handshake and refugee status in the West. It will be the ordinary people on the ground that will suffer , the elite must have already bought properties abroad for this reason.
Did you hear Putin speech it was outright declaration that Ukraine shouldn’t exist and seemed to be rambling more like 3rd world dictator than what we have seen from him. Not sure Covid lock downs have gotten to him or he his trying to appease the hardliners. Even the Chinese reportedly were stunned by it and reportedly expressed displeasure that it was not what Xi agreed to when he met Putin. Other than 3 countries you can see why most other Russian Allies including us, Vietnam, Algeria and Serbia all have kept quiet on this matter.

It was more like an Akhand Russia speech. India needed to act like this to wrt to Pak and China.

kit · Post by **kit** » 23 Feb 2022 00:04

Mort Walker wrote:
John wrote: Did you hear Putin speech it was outright declaration that Ukraine shouldn’t exist and seemed to be rambling more like 3rd world dictator than what we have seen from him. Not sure Covid lock downs have gotten to him or he his trying to appease the hardliners. Even the Chinese reportedly were stunned by it and reportedly expressed displeasure that it was not what Xi agreed to when he met Putin. Other than 3 countries you can see why most other Russian Allies including us, Vietnam, Algeria and Serbia all have kept quiet on this matter.
It was more like an Akhand Russia speech. India needed to act like this to wrt to Pak and China.

Well pushed to the wall., thats how Russia had always been., not logical. Trust me, the US will sit this out leaving the Europeans with a lot more than moral indignation

kit · Post by **kit** » 23 Feb 2022 00:30

https://nypost.com/2022/02/22/us-embass ... SocialFlow

Freelance journalist and historian David Perry noted that while the embassy tweet was technically accurate, it still sent the wrong message.

“There is, indeed, an important medieval history around the early settlement of Kyiv, the post Mongol emergence of Moscow, and yet … I’m really not sure this appeal to medieval history from a diplomatic social media account is doing the work the embassy seems to think it’s doing,” he tweeted.

The meme also got the attention of Russian state-backed media.

“A) This is incredibly infantile.

Actually only reinforces the Russian point that the city of Kiev is the cradle of their civilisation [sic]. C) has been posted from Poland, where the American embassy fled, while other Western states stayed in Ukraine,” wrote Bryan McDonald, head of the Russia desk at RT.com.

“Tell me you’re historically illiterate without telling me you’re historically illiterate,” mocked commentator and occasional RT.com op-ed contributor Ian Miles Cheon