Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 28 Feb 2022 19:28

Elon Musk's Starlink broadband service is now active in ukraine.

the spin and the tailored narratives continue unabated

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 28 Feb 2022 19:37

vk dawt com is the Russian equivalent of facebook. Even on that site there seems to be more western posts than Russian regarding Ukraine war. You can use 'chrome' translate feature to translate the page.

banrjeer · Post by **banrjeer** » 28 Feb 2022 19:54

I doubt it’s in russias interest to hold Ukrainian cities. I’m surprised by so many fronts they opened. It could be a diversion while they slice the eastern regions and Mariupol.

Russia also cannot have China as its sole weapons customer or a they need Prc to be balanced by india otherwise they know prc will swallow them in the future.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 28 Feb 2022 20:03

Ukraine govt is claiming 4300 Russian soldiers killed, ex Ukraine president Porochenko was just now interviewed on France 24, he is claiming 5000 Russian soldiers were killed with anti-tank weapons and molotov cocktails.

He seemed to be totally aligned with the west and claimed talks are on because Putin knows he lost. Wants Russia to withdraw, keep Ukraine intact and let it partner with the West as it wishes. Lot of bravado...

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 28 Feb 2022 20:05

A popular site among Trump's base:

Col Douglas Macgregor Has a Slightly Different Take on Russia-Ukraine Conflict

February 27, 2022 | Sundance |

My spidey senses tell me that Col Douglas Macgregor will not be welcomed back on Fox News after he gave a rather different take on what is happening amid the Russia-Ukraine conflict that does not toe the common media line. Jennifer Griffin was furious.

The first presentation was during a segment with Fox Host Dan Bongino (below). The second presentation of essentially the same analysis was with Trey Gowdy [SEGMENT HERE]. In both discussions Macgregor’s perspective reconciles the disparity between what the U.S. government, State Dept, and corporate media are saying -vs- what is visible.

Essentially, Macgregor is saying that Russia does not want to engage a civilian population and is making every effort to avoid civilian conflict in those population centers. In part this is because Putin knows the Western approach is a propaganda war that would be fueled by what it would look like if population carnage took place. However, if Ukraine President Zelenskyy does not acquiesce to terms, Putin could easily crush those centers with artillery and rockets. WATCH:

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 28 Feb 2022 20:10

The Russian central bank interest rates have gone up from 9.5% to 20 %! Imagine walking up to that and the down the line impact on your home or car loan EMI.

greatde · Post by **greatde** » 28 Feb 2022 20:12

One takes such big decisions when there is immediate internal benefit. So how does it really help Putin in Russia? Boost his popularity ratings? Takes away spotlight from internal problems? Or is it about stamping his legacy plus quitting eventually?

Or is it simply about crossing the red lines? So actions has to be taken irrespective of the costs,cons involved. Does India have such red lines and principle stand?

John · Post by **John** » 28 Feb 2022 20:24

banrjeer wrote:I doubt it’s in russias interest to hold Ukrainian cities. I’m surprised by so many fronts they opened. It could be a diversion while they slice the eastern regions and Mariupol.

Russia also cannot have China as its sole weapons customer or a they need Prc to be balanced by india otherwise they know prc will swallow them in the future.

Their main focus has been Kyiv from the start and the other thrusts are simply to help encircle Kyiv. Even now they seem to be sending more from North to Kyiv.

I mentioned my armchair general analysis while back and I was attacked as western propaganda. If Russians want to succeed they need to capture Kyiv ASAP within 48 hrs and hope they agree for peace deal or Ukr mil surrenders ideally. They then can crush any local uprisings (could be brutal insurgency) but they can say mission accomplished. With main Airports under control they can start airlifting in supplies.

Because based on what I was seeing from reporting in Belarus and Russia-Ukr border from reporters among Russian troops they didnt see to have any logistics for long drawn fight.

Now they are starting bring all the tankers and support from Russia. So original strategy might be changing now to one of war of attrition.

vimal · Post by **vimal** » 28 Feb 2022 20:40

SM is blowing up with Ukraine Iraq comparison and lot of peacefuls are calling out the hypocrisy of the west on this matter. Fake news is also swirling like water of river Thames.

Take this sample, it’s pretty damning if true:

7,000 Ukrainian troops were part of forces invading sovereign Iraq in 2003 for no reason. They stood guard when President Sadam was hanged.
The Ukrainians served as the third-largest Coalition forces contingent during Iraqi occupation. They were part of the brutal forces killing Iraqis in coldblood and raping countless women.
But guess, none felt the same pain because the victims were from different religion and race.
Wonder if there’re any limits of shamelessness!

Y. Kanan · Post by **Y. Kanan** » 28 Feb 2022 20:41

Manish_Sharma wrote:hybrid combined arms lashkars of wokes, murican deep state, global left, anarchists, jihadists all have a common agenda - get Mudi ji out, bring back the good old days...
they are already on the march globally.

time is running out...

Agreed; if Russia’s action fails (which looks increasingly likely) or ends up being a Phyrric victory, the globalist/western cabal will be emboldened, revitalized by their victory and in no mood to accommodate India as an ally without first changing the direction our society is going. They can’t tolerate a proud, nationalistic India that isn’t afraid to call itself Hindu. They’ll want the Congi types firmly back in control of our country before they’ll be willing to hold their noses and support us as a legitimate ally.

If we behave real good and if we become woke enough, they might even give us MUNNA status! We’ll be free to buy all the US made weapons we can afford (no tech transfer or Make In India nonsense, of course).

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 28 Feb 2022 20:44

Yagnasri wrote:I refused to believe Putin had not gamed this. He was warned about this before and knows what is coming.

Back in the day I remember believing till the very end that the great leader Saddam Hussein had something major up his sleeve in his war against the US.

I believe that time also the reality is that what we see is what we get. There’s no 4th dimension chess he’s playing, no cunning strategic master stroke that’s about to be unveiled at the last second.

My conjecture is that yes he definitely must have done his analysis and definitely must have had game plan - but that game plan didn’t survive first contact with the enemy. And he’s miscalculated big time.

I’m not saying he still can’t salvage something out of it, mind. But IMO like ever military/ political leader at war, he’s reacting to events as much as planning ahead.

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 28 Feb 2022 20:54

:

vimal wrote:SM is blowing up with Ukraine Iraq comparison and lot of peacefuls are calling out the hypocrisy of the west on this matter. Fake news is also swirling like water of river Thames.

Take this sample, it’s pretty damning if true:
7,000 Ukrainian troops were part of forces invading sovereign Iraq in 2003 for no reason. They stood guard when President Sadam was hanged.
The Ukrainians served as the third-largest Coalition forces contingent during Iraqi occupation. They were part of the brutal forces killing Iraqis in coldblood and raping countless women.
But guess, none felt the same pain because the victims were from different religion and race.
Wonder if there’re any limits of shamelessness!

Saar Ukraine’s current track record:

1. Deputy prosecutor recently said he was very upset because blue eyed blond haired people were being killed.

2. Two local journalists have been quoted as saying that this refugee crisis was different because ‘normal’ Europeans were affected and not (presumably) refugees from Africa or Middle East.

3. Treatment of Indian students, and Africans, by border guards - need I say more.

srin · Post by **srin** » 28 Feb 2022 21:10

I keep reading on this forums that Russia is failing.

My first question is: how do we know that objectively ? (Western MSM or Twitter doesn't count)
My second is: do we know what their objectives are, to assess their success / failure ?

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 28 Feb 2022 21:12

entire West (US, UK, Eu) is confident within a month Russians will depose Putin and flag of colour will fly over Kremlin..this is what is being funneled into people by channels 24X7

kit · Post by **kit** » 28 Feb 2022 21:13

chetak wrote:Elon Musk's Starlink broadband service is now active in ukraine.

the spin and the tailored narratives continue unabated

It is a national security threat. I have been saying this for a while.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 28 Feb 2022 21:18

Baikul wrote:The Russian central bank interest rates have gone up from 9.5% to 20 %! Imagine walking up to that and the down the line impact on your home or car loan EMI.

looks like putin has put some thought into this

long time gaming onlee

@Schuldensuehner · 23 Feb

To make himself independent of the West, Putin has stopped investing FX reserves in US govt bonds.

#Russia now holds only $3.9bn in US govt bonds.

The volume used to be $176bn in 2010.

Putin has shifted many reserves into #gold.

12:39 am · 23 Feb 2022

Shankas · Post by **Shankas** » 28 Feb 2022 21:28

Chetakji
If you can, please post graphs of US Debt Owned by India and China.
Thank you.

Srutayus · Post by **Srutayus** » 28 Feb 2022 21:28

Saar Ukraine’s current track record:

1. Deputy prosecutor recently said he was very upset because blue eyed blond haired people were being killed.

2. Two local journalists have been quoted as saying that this refugee crisis was different because ‘normal’ Europeans were affected and not (presumably) refugees from Africa or Middle East.

3. Treatment of Indian students, and Africans, by border guards - need I say more.

Here is the high-ranking Ukrainian official saying on the BBC how this is really emotional because "European people with blonde hair and blue eyes are being killed"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvRmSFvVUIw

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 28 Feb 2022 21:42

Saudi Arabia announces that it confirms its commitment to the 'OPEC Plus' agreement with Russia.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_ ... th-russia/

Saudi Arabia confirms its commitment to the OPEC+ agreement with Russia, the Saudi Press Agency reports.

Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman makes the comments during a conversation with French President Emmanuel Macron that also covers the situation in Ukraine and its impact on the energy markets, the agency says.

“In this regard, His Royal Highness the Crown Prince affirmed the Kingdom’s keenness on the stability and balance of oil markets and the Kingdom’s commitment to the OPEC Plus agreement,” the agency says.

Members of the OPEC+ oil producers’ group will meet Wednesday to discuss loosening the taps — just days after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine sent crude soaring past $100 a barrel.

kit · Post by **kit** » 28 Feb 2022 21:42

Srutayus wrote:
Saar Ukraine’s current track record:

Here is the high-ranking Ukrainian official saying on the BBC how this is really emotional because "European people with blonde hair and blue eyes are being killed"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvRmSFvVUIw

and the worst part , the presenter did nothing , just nodding in approval

.. Racist anglo saxons with their new friends ..why are we even talking about these people

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 28 Feb 2022 21:59

Russia bans all residents from transferring money abroad.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 28 Feb 2022 22:00

The Russian advance is not going well, but its not a lost cause either. What is a lost cause is the info war: the West have been utterly successful in pushing the narrative that the Ukrainians are poor innocent brave fighters standing up to Russia against all odds. Be it the fiction of the Mig 29 pilot or the Snake island fighters or the flying suit guy who apparently shot down 3 planes… any fiction is being peddled as the truth. BBC is peddling 5000 dead before zero cross checking.

GoI would do well to understand the information perception dominance that will be required. Sadly we will be not only playing on a pitch owned by the enemy (Twitter and YouTube) but also where some of “our” players will be playing for the opposing team

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 28 Feb 2022 22:02

Apparently Ukraine will release prisoners with combat experience to 'compensate for their guilt in the hottest spots of war'. In other words, cannon fodder.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Feb 2022 22:04

kit wrote:
chetak wrote:Elon Musk's Starlink broadband service is now active in ukraine.

the spin and the tailored narratives continue unabated
It is a national security threat. I have been saying this for a while.

Some idiot babu had given permission to Musk's Starlink service and sat phones and this was canceled only recently.
And his Man in Delhi decamped.

Musk is US deep state guy. Don't be fooled by his many indictments.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 28 Feb 2022 22:11

Hungary blocks transfer of Ukraine-bound lethal weapons.

Hungary will not allow the transfer of deadly weapons on its territory, Hungarian foreign minister Péter Szijjártó said on Facebook on Monday, as the EU ships military aid to its eastern neighbour Ukraine. Budapest on Sunday agreed to activate the so-called European Peace Facility (EPF), which allows the EU to deliver weapons to Ukraine, but refused to allow those shipments to be routed through Hungary.

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 28 Feb 2022 22:14

srin wrote:I keep reading on this forums that Russia is failing.

My first question is: how do we know that objectively ? (Western MSM or Twitter doesn't count)
My second is: do we know what their objectives are, to assess their success / failure ?

Too early to tell which way it is going. The first two days were a spectacular blitz by Russia but it’s definitely slowed down.

A few things I have observed

1. Russians are moving only thru highways and trying to encircle cities. They definitely have logistical problems as we see tanks are running out of fuel

2. Most of the infantry fighting is during the day , maybe a lack of night fighting equipment.

3. Only 1/3 of the troops have been sent and they are not the best. Maybe looking to get a feel before the real assault begins. This is a known soviet tactic

4. They have lost a few tanks/bmps but the number is small compared to chechneya or Georgia

I fear the worst is yet to come as UKR remains defiant

williams · Post by **williams** » 28 Feb 2022 22:15

Baikul wrote:
Yagnasri wrote:I refused to believe Putin had not gamed this. He was warned about this before and knows what is coming.
Back in the day I remember believing till the very end that the great leader Saddam Hussein had something major up his sleeve in his war against the US.

I believe that time also the reality is that what we see is what we get. There’s no 4th dimension chess he’s playing, no cunning strategic master stroke that’s about to be unveiled at the last second.

My conjecture is that yes he definitely must have done his analysis and definitely must have had game plan - but that game plan didn’t survive first contact with the enemy. And he’s miscalculated big time.

I’m not saying he still can’t salvage something out of it, mind. But IMO like ever military/ political leader at war, he’s reacting to events as much as planning ahead.

First, we need to define success outside what western media is defining success here. Not having any casualties, time limit on by when the objectives will be met and performance of the Russian military is all defined by the western media. Military operations are always fraught with risk and invading a bordering country as large as Ukraine when the whole western world is fuming is not a joke.

Further, no military operation at this scale will go exactly as planned, unless it is a very limited operation. I would wait some more time to see what transpires after the fog of war is settled.

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 28 Feb 2022 22:29

Sample this below

https://twitter.com/spriter99880/status ... gRSfQ&s=19

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 28 Feb 2022 22:38

Tanaji wrote:The Russian advance is not going well, but its not a lost cause either. What is a lost cause is the info war: the West have been utterly successful in pushing the narrative that the Ukrainians are poor innocent brave fighters standing up to Russia against all odds. Be it the fiction of the Mig 29 pilot or the Snake island fighters or the flying suit guy who apparently shot down 3 planes… any fiction is being peddled as the truth. BBC is peddling 5000 dead before zero cross checking.

GoI would do well to understand the information perception dominance that will be required. Sadly we will be not only playing on a pitch owned by the enemy (Twitter and YouTube) but also where some of “our” players will be playing for the opposing team

I couldn’t agree more. In fact this should be a major takeaway for us.

Every social media platform I’ve been to, it seems like the Western allies have managed overwhelm the Russians with their propaganda. With their cool hip Ukrainian president, bechara little Ukraine theme they’ve just blown away the Russians whose counter propaganda is stodgy. I’m quoting some random Reddit poster on this to illustrate what’s happening out there

Have you seen the Russian propoganda? I popped over for a laugh and it was nothing but "Ukrainians stop fighting us" and "glory to the motherland".

Zero fun, totally lame, would not recommend.

You’ve got videos of:
- Ukrainian grandmothers confronting Russian soldiers
- Ukrainian civilians mocking Russian soldiers
- Ukrainian soldiers shooting up Russian supplies and convoys,
- Russian soldiers stealing from banks and retail stores.

And what do you have from the Russians? Well, Official statements.

And it’s amazing to see how Ukrainian myths are dominating! You mentioned the but I think it’s well worth repeating:

1. Ghost of Kyiv: a super duper fighter pilot who too down 7/8 Russian aircraft. Turns out to be sourced from a video game.

2. Snake Island: Brave Ukrainian on a tiny island who told a Russian ship to “go **** yourself” and were cruelly massacred. They were all given posthumous awards by the Ukraine government. Turns out all are alive and POWs.

3. Russian 3400/ 4500 /4700 dead in 4 days l! The entire Afghanistan war had 17000 dead in 9 years! But so far there’s zero credible proof.

It just goes on. These are lessons we need to absorb quickly.

srikandan · Post by **srikandan** » 28 Feb 2022 22:41

https://twitter.com/AdityaRajKaul/statu ... 7631341571

Ukrainian Nazis in Zelensky's govt. holding Indian students hostage in Ukraine by refusing to let them board a train out of Ukraine, and these were the humanitarians India was supposed to support in the UN?

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 28 Feb 2022 22:46

baikul, doesnt that sound errrieely like the bakis?

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 28 Feb 2022 22:52

ramana wrote:
kit wrote: It is a national security threat. I have been saying this for a while.
Some idiot babu had given permission to Musk's Starlink service and sat phones and this was canceled only recently.
And his Man in Delhi decamped.
Musk is US deep state guy. Don't be fooled by his many indictments.

people did ask him if he plans to provide any to palestine or syria. Two facts to support your point sir
1. Musk has been actively supported by US Govt, remember the miraculous contract from NASA
2. Also, musk was taunted by Russians when he was quoted an absurd price and he went quiet and then the russians taunted "what no money!" and he just responded by saying, "no i think i can build the rockets". He did "build" the rocket. If you consider passing blueprints/designs and scientists. To his credit he is innovating. But in a high risk field with high entry barriers him being the rock star is no coincidence
3. Not to forget he has not been keeping any patents, he mentioned that its not enforceable as most of competitors are govt entities. But then does he need to when Uncle sam has his back.

Lastly, mere banning wont work. We need to find a way to block or closely monitor his signals else devices can be delivered through bd, sl borders.

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 28 Feb 2022 22:53

ArjunPandit wrote:baikul, doesnt that sound errrieely like the bakis?

Yep. Except that the Bakis aren’t half that smart.

If anything summarises the initial ‘gentleness’ of the Russian invasion for me it’s this clip:

https://twitter.com/rwapodcast/status/1 ... 53025?s=21

I think it’s going to get a lot nastier now.

It’s a good twitter source to get info from a Russian pov IMO. These guys a a bit savvier than the usual Russian suspects.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 28 Feb 2022 22:54

Do as I say, not as I do. Free speech and all that in the new EU.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1497979816733204483

John · Post by **John** » 28 Feb 2022 22:55

Russian 3400/ 4500 /4700 dead in 4 days l! The entire Afghanistan war had 17000 dead in 9 years!

Ukrainian casualties are definitely inflated till red cross or someone goes we may never get casualty count. I am not sure if how many people here are old enough to remember Afghanistan conflict but Soviets never admitted much losses till 85 and Mujhadeen had inflated death counts. In the end truth was somewhere in the middle.

So we may never truly now the human toll from this conflict till dust settles, But the equipment losses is quite high I know people documenting this from videos that are released.

So currently Russian losses seem to be on par with what they saw in battle of grozny. May be bit more if some of losses are not documented in social media.

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/a ... t.html?m=1

kit · Post by **kit** » 28 Feb 2022 22:56

https://www.reuters.com/article/factche ... SL1N2V10J1

https://www.reuters.com/article/factche ... SL1N2V10DO

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 28 Feb 2022 22:57

I do not share with some members sentiments that India has suffered because of this war. There is always a price to pay in wars.

Covid 19 showed some gaps, and the government fixed them. We improved our capabilities and strengthened in other areas. The domestic and international audiences have acknowledged this development.

So is the case with this war. By staying neutral, and being practical we have demonstrated our strength. If the war was to end tomorrow, India would come out shining. Putin-Modi telephonic conversation increased Modi and India's stature. Ukraine and the West begging for India to increase its diplomacy to find a solution tells the stride we have made.

We have come off as a responsible country/democracy, and a valuable contributor to World health & peace. And we are not sitting quiet, we are building our economic and military might.

vijaykarthik · Post by **vijaykarthik** » 28 Feb 2022 22:58

ManSingh wrote: In this case, Ukraine is the second engineering center (not outsourcing destination) other than where I am located. It is not an Indian company. The reason why a lot of tier-1's ( and independent vendors/fabless design houses ) have engineering center's or outsource to Ukraine is the high quality of engineering talent. This includes hardware designers and embedded software professionals. Ukrainians( and other East Europeans ) are present in a lot of R&D, advanced engineering departments in North America.

The simulation/design tools/Lithograhpic manufacturing equipment are the other key. Synopsys, Cadence, ASML etc. all operate under US export controls. It wouldn't be wise to take a completely antagonistic stand to the West due to these. India neither has the manufacturing fabs nor owns the IP for fabless design tools. There is nothing to gain by taking a stand for/against.

My view is that its far easier to fix that (human resourcing) problem. Best design brain and hub is in Taiwan and we could use that to replace. IIRC, Ukraine is a mass producer of Neon which is critical in semi production and there the major dep ends. Besides, I think Ukrainian work is more in the 12nm+ space and not in the 5/7nm. A lot of automobiles and old chips are definitely in the larger nm and will get affected (then again, human resourcing can easily be accounted for in the short term - thats what BCP is all about)

kit · Post by **kit** » 28 Feb 2022 23:04

https://twitter.com/MrityunjayRagh2/sta ... 3697692675

Audio message from an indian student at the Uk-Polish border on how the Ukranian armed forces are torturing the poor kids ! If that is not racist what is

ManSingh · Post by **ManSingh** » 28 Feb 2022 23:08

Shankas wrote:Chetakji
If you can, please post graphs of US Debt Owned by India and China.
Thank you.

Indian money expansion M1/M2 etc. i.e. economic growth is tied to the amount of foreign currency held by RBI. The overwhlemingly biggest chunk of foreign exchange is US Dollars.

So if the U.S. dollar goes down, so does India's economic expansion. India needa to find another system to print more money.