India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

[Garooda]

As far as the west is concerned, they will never change. As they decline, viciousness will increase in attempting to claw us down. More groupism will occur. We just have to avoid outright conflict and pursue hard power. All the yackety yack, viswaguru stuff is window dressing for an idea others already believe in, because they see a rich, powerful civilization which they stare at in envy or admiration. And it's high time we also looked at becoming more meritorious and retaining our talent not merely social justice and sops, exporting a lot of our talent to societies who use them to create power, to boss over us. True irony, that.

How to curb the talent export and encourage retention ? Seems the bottom line is money and room for growth. There are personal ambitions and goals at large vs nationalism or patriotism. Until then, many will continue to broaden their horizons outside the country be it for business or personal achievements.

[Garooda]

Because India is the only system that can globalise without any real application of hard power.

+ 1

The one and only I may add.

[Vayutuvan]

They may not be outrightly racist, but won't treat these Indians any differently from other ethnicities doing similar jobs.

Most racism comes from recent migrants from Europe - both east and west. Doesn't matter.

[Karan M]

As far as the west is concerned, they will never change. As they decline, viciousness will increase in attempting to claw us down. More groupism will occur. We just have to avoid outright conflict and pursue hard power. All the yackety yack, viswaguru stuff is window dressing for an idea others already believe in, because they see a rich, powerful civilization which they stare at in envy or admiration. And it's high time we also looked at becoming more meritorious and retaining our talent not merely social justice and sops, exporting a lot of our talent to societies who use them to create power, to boss over us. True irony, that.

How to curb the talent export and encourage retention ? Seems the bottom line is money and room for growth. There are personal ambitions and goals at large vs nationalism or patriotism. Until then, many will continue to broaden their horizons outside the country be it for business or personal achievements.

The only way out is for forward thinking political leaders to recognize and address this issue. And for India's educated class to demand and expect high standards in a vocal fashion, instead of letting things slide, irrespective of which party is in power.

[Vayutuvan]

1
Sorry, but I don't know any other way. Perhaps someone else has a better strategy.

We used to have a "Good posts" thread. Probably was General ... whatever Discussion Forum which is now defunct.

[srikandan]

https://indianexpress.com/article/world ... s-7799245/

US Senator Chris Murphy (Democrat), Chairman of the US Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on Near East, South Asia, Central Asia and Counterterrorism, held the sub-committee hearing with Senator Todd Young (Republican), Ranking Member of the subcommittee, on US policy towards India. The 90-minute hearing was a 360-degree examination of the relationship. Apart from the Ukraine issue, India-China tensions and the Quad were touched upon, as well as questions about India’s democracy, its freedoms, the use of NSO surveillance software on Rahul Gandhi, Kashmir, relations with Pakistan and the feasibility of Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s promise to come up with 500 gigwatts of clean energy by 2030.

Americans are proving they are a "strategic partner" alreaady. Very nice. Senator Murphy should bend over so India can shove that report up his rear filing cabinet. They are going after Modi ji and want Rahul out there, so that about says what India's response should be. India does not owe these racist american mofos any explanations about its energy plans, and the PM said as much recently.

If you don’t own a banking system, it’s very hard for other countries to pay millions of dollars in rubles, yen or in euros to pay for these defence systems. So I do think many countries that have this legacy, Russian systems will be worried–not only worried about buying new fancy systems like the S-400, but worried just about ammunition, spare parts of basic supplies for Russian legacy systems that they already have, I would guess that India is one of those countries worried about that,” Lu said, also describing it as an “opportunity” for the United States and Europe and others that that produce advanced defence technology “to go after new markets” for defence sales.

Yes, so now India must now buy weapons from these same oiseules who are threatening India with dire consequences if it dares to defend itself. Makes total sense. EU is a perfect example of what happens to US allies in the long run -- they have to ruin themselves so the US can prosper.

[Zynda]

Not sure if a certain comment was made in this thread but one of the poster said that secularism and the current Western outlook is akin to Christianity 2.0...reading the above reactions, I can't help but get the feeling that it is true. Abhramic religion views in monotheistic sense and this attitude is carried over to the current Western dispensation i.e. "you are with us or against us"...very minimal space for people with "live & let live" approach...

[Cyrano]

thanks for posting this, we can see the full hearing video here:
https://www.foreign.senate.gov/hearings ... ndia030222

Its a must watch.

The speed with which US MIC has moved to get senators on its pay to pressure the US Govt to pressure India to ditch Russian military equipment and buy theirs, to be used as per their wishes is extraordinary. I'm now wondering if they haven't actually set up Putin by waving Ukraine red rag. I can now see them salivating at the huge market they see, and the US Govt dancing along happily at the prospect of protecting America from China using American equipment paid for by India, to be used by Indian soldiers ready to die fighting America's next war.

This is System 2.0 at its smartest and most vicious. Its not some special treatment reserved for India. Us would do the same to Europe (ex: how Aukus screwed over France), or Europe to us, or someone else depending on the pecking order of relative power parity. We are faced with people experienced in wielding it, using arms sales, women's rights, democracy, terrorism, climate change or whatever lever to exploit or co-opt India for their agenda. Given the imminent defanging if not dismantlement of Russia, the choices in front of India are limited. On one hand the power we banked on for so long is tanking (no puns intended) and on the other hand, we have the sole super power left enticing us into another bear hug and ready to use us like a bigger, juicier, more profitable but no less expendable Ukraine. Actually there might not be a choice left.

India will need to play its A game all the time going forward, and relentlessly pursue a 2 pronged strategy:
1. Create a series of strategic interdependencies with System 2.0 to not get picked to the bone.
2. Never waste a moment in making Atmanirbhar Bharat

Indian people need to be extremely watchful and elect leaders with nerves of steel and India's interests paramount at every level of govt because System 2.0 has the will and means to exploit us from outside and inside.

Lastly I wish our Lok & Rajya Sabha members get so focused and sharp someday instead of the crop of mostly idiotic turds we get today. hum hongey kaamyaab some day....

[KLNMurthy]

…

some caveats. The "red line" principle I think is nuanced a little more selfishly. It is not just invading a country across a line, (a) it is doing so with a poor casus belli that is not believable, (b) autocratic government on one side and democratic on the other, and (c) not having any military supporters on your side. With the usual national interest caveats (no one will care if Venezuela attacks Colombia), I believe this applies anywhere. Adding to the above in this case, Ukraine's president appears to be winning the info war, has a populace that is fighting, even if it is most likely going to lose and is defiantly relatable to a lot of countries. Eventually democracies have to submit to popular will in their countries if there is overwhelming support. US is currently polling 80% support for Ukraine among both republicans and democrats.

Popular will in a democracy can be, and is, manipulated. Doesn’t need to have any basis in reality. You only have to look at the WEUS popular formulation that Modi sarkar is fascist and eats Muslim babies and (now) SC-STs for breakfast on alternate days.

…

India attacking Pakistan would likely have a strong casus belli even if it didn't have (c) above, heck India didn't retaliate after multiple major attacks in the early 2000s - it has long a history of restraint. WEUS will make the usual noises and self restraint, but nothing more. Their response to Balakot was pretty muted and no sanctions unlike what would likely have happened in the decades before. Now Pak knows the response it is going to get - and it has produced the right conditioned behavior on Pak that allowed the Grosvenor house channel to go smoothly.

…

In my belief, after this event, US will attempt its best to bring India into its fold. As everyone here knows, Republicans make strong choices that affect strategic calculus such as NSG membership and they have been a good help for India. However, they are terrible with EU, and do tend to have too many unnecessary war hawks. Democrats harp on Kashmir - too many far left with little sense of what it takes to run a diverse country. Problem is Democrats are better at bringing EU along than Republicans, if and when they act. This has always been the conundrum. Given the pressures from this war, I believe this administration would likely work to bring India in, because it sees its national interest is tied to India, and this sets the conditions to bring EU and end the transactional relationship. Maybe I am naive here, but the conditions are there.

…

Now it seems you are taking a pragmatic line: projecting that WEUS wants India into its fold, and will either support or abstain from any (justified) aggressive action by India, barring a few obligatory noises. Pretty much what India is doing with Russia now, because of its own self-interest.

Other than minor quibbles, I don’t have a problem with this view. I don’t know WEUS’s true intent or vision re India, and I don’t think you do either. We would both be making, at best, shrewd guesses. I don’t believe that WEUS really wants to make India “one of its own”—something to spill WEUS blood & treasure for, so to speak, but I could be proved wrong & you could be proved right.

But that gets us away from your original recommendation to India: that it set aside its national interests (Russian arms, safety of students etc.) and come down on the WEUS in condemning Russia.

If anything, your pragmatic view above weakens the “why” of that recommendation: if WEUS’s goal is to basically embrace India after this, would/should India abstaining, with clearly stated rationale for the abstention, matter all that much for that goal? Reason suggests that there would be “noises” from WEUS, but no substantive change in that goal.

[Rudradev]

Incisive riposte as usual, KLNM saar! Always a pleasure to read.

[Cyrano]

"If WEUS’s goal is to basically embrace India after this, would/should India abstaining, with clearly stated rationale for the abstention, matter all that much for that goal? "

Murthy garu, one additional takeaway for me from the congressional video I linked above was that India's abstention as rung quite a few alarm bells at different high places in the US for different reasons. It seems to have created some fear that India could be slipping away into a Russia-China-India combine bringing 3 decades of painful efforts to pry open India to naught. One senator wanted Biden admin to "put India on notice" to behave as desired.

[anmol]

Biden weighing sanctions on India over Russian military stockpiles
BY LAURA KELLY - 03/03/22 10:30 AM EST

The Biden administration is weighing whether to impose sanctions against India over its stockpile of and reliance on Russian military equipment as part of the wide-ranging consequences the West is seeking to impose on Moscow over its invasion of Ukraine.

Donald Lu, the assistant secretary of State for South Asian affairs, on Thursday told lawmakers in a hearing that the administration is weighing how threatening India's historically close military relationship with Russia is to U.S. security.

“It’s a question we’re looking at very closely, as the administration is looking at the broader question over whether to apply sanctions under CAATSA or to waive those sanctions,” Lu said.

The Countering American Adversaries Through Sanctions Act, passed in 2017 in the wake of the Kremlin’s interference in U.S. elections, includes the authority to sanction transactions with Russian defense or intelligence sectors.

The law includes waiver authority for the president that was used for Turkey, an ally in NATO, until December 2020 when the Trump administration imposed sanctions under the law for Ankara’s purchase of the Russian S400 missile defense system.

In 2016, India was named a “Major Defense Partner” with the U.S., a unique designation that serves to elevate defense trade and technology. Defense contracts between the U.S. and India are said to have amounted to $20 billion since 2008.

India is also a member of the Quadrilateral Security Dialogue with the U.S., Japan and Australia, a grouping that focuses on countering China’s ambitions in the Indo-Pacific.

President Biden held a video call with Quad leaders on Thursday, according to the White House, “to discuss the war against Ukraine and its implications for the Indo-Pacific.”

Lu told lawmakers that the administration is “in the process of trying to understand whether defense technology that we are sharing with India today can be adequately safeguarded given India’s historical relationship with Russia and its defense sales.”

“It is critical that with any partner, that the United States is able to assure itself that any defense technology we share is sufficiently protected,” he said.

Lu said the administration has been engaged in a “pitched battle” with Indian officials over the past couple of months leading up to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. President Biden, Secretary of State Antony Blinken and other senior officials in the State Department urged New Delhi to “to take a clearer position, a position opposed to Russia’s action.”

The secretary said India’s abstention at the United Nations and its commitment to provide Ukraine with humanitarian assistance are promising steps in a shift in its public position and that he expects an even greater shift in the aftermath of outrage at the death of an Indian student killed in Kharkiv, Ukraine's second-largest city, by Russian bombing in recent days.

“I have had several conversations with Indian officials in the last 24 hours,” Lu said. “What we can see, already, very quickly is that action has begun to turn public opinion in India against a country that they perceived as a partner, undeniably, that partner has killed a young person who was an innocent victim in Ukraine.”

[nachiket]

The secretary said India’s abstention at the United Nations and its commitment to provide Ukraine with humanitarian assistance are promising steps in a shift in its public position and that he expects an even greater shift in the aftermath of outrage at the death of an Indian student killed in Kharkiv, Ukraine's second-largest city, by Russian bombing in recent days.

Um, so they consider India's abstention a promising step? As opposed to India directly voting in favor of Russia I suppose. If that's the case all the rona-dhona in this thread about a "missed opportunity" is pointless. The Americans themselves are satisfied even if certain Americans of Indian origin may not be.

[srikandan]

The secretary said India’s abstention at the United Nations and its commitment to provide Ukraine with humanitarian assistance are promising steps in a shift in its public position and that he expects an even greater shift in the aftermath of outrage at the death of an Indian student killed in Kharkiv, Ukraine's second-largest city, by Russian bombing in recent days.

“I have had several conversations with Indian officials in the last 24 hours,” Lu said. “What we can see, already, very quickly is that action has begun to turn public opinion in India against a country that they perceived as a partner, undeniably, that partner has killed a young person who was an innocent victim in Ukraine.”

So the Ukrainian neo-nazis are holding Indian students as human shields so that the next time around this oiseaule can claim "russia killed 1000s of Indian students. That Indian student that died in kharkiv appears to have been shot by an Ukrainian while standing in line in a grocery store where he was buying supplies. This happened after Zelensky handed weapons to criminals -- he did not die because of Russian bombing as claimed by the USA.

[hnair]

Um, so they consider India's abstention a promising step? As opposed to India directly voting in favor of Russia I suppose. If that's the case all the rona-dhona in this thread about a "missed opportunity" is pointless. The Americans themselves are satisfied even if certain Americans of Indian origin may not be.

You got that 400% correct. The Ukries and their backers don’t want to create another powerful enemy in an India backed to a corner with no the other way out but to go back to a national hostile mindset of post-Nixon days. I can understand white people lining up to take sides as per their national govt’s diktats on both Russian and anti-Russian sides. Average white person loves their govt that provided them a leg up in the rat race called human life over centuries and will continue to do so, mostly at the cost of non-whites. But the psyche of some of the posters here, who want to see India turn a long standing supporter of Indian interests into an enemy based on the questionable support of a nation that recently vamoosed from the neighborhood, collapsing all hopes of any peace in our lifetimes. That psyche is weird and not sustainable.

[kit]

Biden weighing sanctions on India over Russian military stockpiles
BY LAURA KELLY - 03/03/22 10:30 AM EST

let them sanction whatever they want !!.. India could go ahead and buy Russian oil !

[KLNMurthy]

Karan India is not disliked.

It's feared.

Because India is the only system that can globalise without any real application of hard power.

Feared, disliked, loathed and sought to be utilised. Brit empire ran on Indian manpower. We make for good gungadins in the Western scheme of things.

But we are also taken for granted and not taken seriously, precisely because we overrate our soft power and ignore hard power. No amount of yoga, moral preaching makes up for technology access, financial wherewithal and a huge economy that makes stuff. That's hard power. As is homegrown military tech when combined with the willingness to use force as versus moral grandstanding.

I am reminded of George Orwell’s dogs in Animal Farm. IIRC Initially the dogs are used as goondas by the pigs who are the rulers, but then realize they can be rulers in their own right as they are the muscle and pigs can’t rule without them. I believe the pigs end up making the dogs into partners.

What if, instead of goonda-dogs, there was a magical animal which could ensure peace, harmony, equality & progress without violence? But also had the strength & will to fight for righteousness when required? And all the animals decided they don’t need the pigs or dogs because the magical animal is a much better way?

How will the pigs and dogs react if they see the magical animal growing & developing in front of them?

[KLNMurthy]

Incisive riposte as usual, KLNM saar! Always a pleasure to read.

Thanks, I love compliments!

Seriously, even as a BRF “oldie” who should know better, I am left pleasantly shocked at the spate of incisive and deep analyses and ruminations on BRF that the Russo-NATO war has triggered.

Like Samuel Johnson said, there’s nothing that sharpens the mind more than the realization that one is going to be hanged in the morning.

Maybe this war, and the Western (both governmental and “tankie”) response to it has indeed sharpened our collective minds to a next-level “shatrubodh” awareness. I can only hope it’s a sea change.

[KLNMurthy]

"If WEUS’s goal is to basically embrace India after this, would/should India abstaining, with clearly stated rationale for the abstention, matter all that much for that goal? "

Murthy garu, one additional takeaway for me from the congressional video I linked above was that India's abstention as rung quit a few alarm bells at different high places in the US for different reasons. It seems to have created some fear that India could be slipping away into a Russia-China-India combine bringing 3 decades of painful efforts to pry open India to naught. One senator wanted Biden admin to "put India on notice" to behave as desired.

My “if” was basically granting @aharam gari premise for the sake of argument.

I have zero belief that India as its own free civilizational entity would ever be embraced by the WEUS.

But of course, there is always a possibility that I could be proved wrong by events.

[KLNMurthy]

The secretary said India’s abstention at the United Nations and its commitment to provide Ukraine with humanitarian assistance are promising steps in a shift in its public position and that he expects an even greater shift in the aftermath of outrage at the death of an Indian student killed in Kharkiv, Ukraine's second-largest city, by Russian bombing in recent days.

Um, so they consider India's abstention a promising step? As opposed to India directly voting in favor of Russia I suppose. If that's the case all the rona-dhona in this thread about a "missed opportunity" is pointless. The Americans themselves are satisfied even if certain Americans of Indian origin may not be.

As an “American of Indian origin” myself, let me share my dismay at the MUTU attitude & conduct of some of my fellow expats. I can only guess that some sort of deep-seated anxiety about acceptance in America is part of their motivation.

I don’t think I am “better” than them in any way, but personally, after a little struggle, I decided that, American or not, I can’t lie to myself about what place India holds in my heart.

[KLNMurthy]

The secretary said India’s abstention at the United Nations and its commitment to provide Ukraine with humanitarian assistance are promising steps in a shift in its public position and that he expects an even greater shift in the aftermath of outrage at the death of an Indian student killed in Kharkiv, Ukraine's second-largest city, by Russian bombing in recent days.

“I have had several conversations with Indian officials in the last 24 hours,” Lu said. “What we can see, already, very quickly is that action has begun to turn public opinion in India against a country that they perceived as a partner, undeniably, that partner has killed a young person who was an innocent victim in Ukraine.”

So the Ukrainian neo-nazis are holding Indian students as human shields so that the next time around this oiseaule can claim "russia killed 1000s of Indian students. That Indian student that died in kharkiv appears to have been shot by an Ukrainian while standing in line in a grocery store where he was buying supplies. This happened after Zelensky handed weapons to criminals -- he did not die because of Russian bombing as claimed by the USA.

Russians told GoI that they will “investigate” the killing of Naveen. Clever of them I think.

[SwamyG]

Sorry if this was posted: https://thehill.com/policy/internationa ... stockpiles

Biden weighing sanctions on India over Russian military stockpiles.

The Biden administration is weighing whether to impose sanctions against India over its stockpile of and reliance on Russian military equipment as part of the wide-ranging consequences the West is seeking to impose on Moscow over its invasion of Ukraine.

[kit]

Sorry if this was posted: https://thehill.com/policy/internationa ... stockpiles

Biden weighing sanctions on India over Russian military stockpiles

let them show their hypocrisy.

[GShankar]

So, let's say there is a sanction - can we use that as a reason to cancel some IPR and formally start reverse engineering (across the board)?

[ramana]

Incisive riposte as usual, KLNM saar! Always a pleasure to read.

Thanks, I love compliments!

Seriously, even as a BRF “oldie” who should know better, I am left pleasantly shocked at the spate of incisive and deep analyses and ruminations on BRF that the Russo-NATO war has triggered.

Like Samuel Johnson said, there’s nothing that sharpens the mind more than the realization that one is going to be hanged in the morning.

Maybe this war, and the Western (both governmental and “tankie”) response to it has indeed sharpened our collective minds to a next-level “shatrubodh” awareness. I can only hope it’s a sea change.

The UNSC abstain vote triggered the visceral angst that #Gungadin dares to voice his vote at White master's club (UNSC).
See not just here but among Indian chatterati in media, institutions, politicians, opinion-makers a Niagra of outpouring.
Whatsapp groups are full of advice on how India has lost it!

[ramana]

So the Ukrainian neo-nazis are holding Indian students as human shields so that the next time around this oiseaule can claim "russia killed 1000s of Indian students. That Indian student that died in kharkiv appears to have been shot by an Ukrainian while standing in line in a grocery store where he was buying supplies. This happened after Zelensky handed weapons to criminals -- he did not die because of Russian bombing as claimed by the USA.

Russians told GoI that they will “investigate” the killing of Naveen. Clever of them I think.

There is a Bengaluru newspaper report that quotes the students saying there was no shelling and only Navven is reported killed.
Most likely it is a sniper shot by Ukrainian forces: official or those militias.

[Mort Walker]

What!?!

Biden-Harris were suppose to elevate India-US relations to soaring new heights, as opposed to that evil racist Trump. There would soon be several Indian-American cabinet secretaries and all sorts of IIT alumni running US government agencies and industry. BLM was going to protect all Indians against violence from the violent racists. America was going to be a beautiful place with streets lined in gold. No! No! This can’t be true - my heart is broken and all India had to do was vote with the US at the UN. Please GoI reconsider.

[SwamyG]

Covid and this War have proved India's mettle. West just cannot handle it. They tried to delay India's rise since 1947. How can they handle Russia, China and India, and the rest of the World? Only a tightly integrated World in the way they want it will help them.

[KLNMurthy]

Russians told GoI that they will “investigate” the killing of Naveen. Clever of them I think.

There is a Bengaluru newspaper report that quotes the students saying there was no shelling and only Navven is reported killed.
Most likely it is a sniper shot by Ukrainian forces: official or those militias.

Yes I think that’s probably what will come out of the Russian investigation into the Naveen case. Would help them with Indian public opinion.

[ramana]

https://twitter.com/ramana_brf/status/1 ... 3MJFg&s=19

[Vayutuvan]

[there was a magical animal which could ensure peace, harmony, equality & progress without violence? But also had the strength & will to fight for righteousness when required?

Elephant, not tiger. I don't know whether there could be two tigers on the mountain but there could be two elephants in the forest.

[Vayutuvan]

I have zero belief that India as its own free civilizational entity would ever be embraced by the WEUS.

Unless the Jehova Project (?) succeeds and/or The Holy Sea gets their wish from God.

[Karan M]

Feared, disliked, loathed and sought to be utilised. Brit empire ran on Indian manpower. We make for good gungadins in the Western scheme of things.

But we are also taken for granted and not taken seriously, precisely because we overrate our soft power and ignore hard power. No amount of yoga, moral preaching makes up for technology access, financial wherewithal and a huge economy that makes stuff. That's hard power. As is homegrown military tech when combined with the willingness to use force as versus moral grandstanding.

I am reminded of George Orwell’s dogs in Animal Farm. IIRC Initially the dogs are used as goondas by the pigs who are the rulers, but then realize they can be rulers in their own right as they are the muscle and pigs can’t rule without them. I believe the pigs end up making the dogs into partners.

What if, instead of goonda-dogs, there was a magical animal which could ensure peace, harmony, equality & progress without violence? But also had the strength & will to fight for righteousness when required? And all the animals decided they don’t need the pigs or dogs because the magical animal is a much better way?

How will the pigs and dogs react if they see the magical animal growing & developing in front of them?

That strength and national will to decide on what's righteous and then fight for it, are what are lacking and what we need to build upon. Otherwise people take all our well meaning attempts to craft a new narrative as a sign of our equivocation and weakness, and our attempts to mask our inability to get our way. It will change.

[vimal]

I hope NATO puts a blanket ban on any entity selling arms to India. Painful but necessary step.

[Pratyush]

^^^

Yes please.

[yensoy]

I hope NATO puts a blanket ban on any entity selling arms to India. Painful but necessary step.

Tejas will use what engine?

It's not about the finished product only. It is about the components and we use plenty of western components. Their MIC would certainly prefer selling the finished product (& huge service contracts that go with it) rather than letting us develop on our own.

[vimal]

^^ I'm aware of engines, electronics, parts what not. But i'd be happy if they stop selling India anything. Chandigarh gang needs to die.

[kit]

thanks for posting this, we can see the full hearing video here:
https://www.foreign.senate.gov/hearings ... ndia030222

Its a must watch.

The speed with which US MIC has moved to get senators on its pay to pressure the US Govt to pressure India to ditch Russian military equipment and buy theirs, to be used as per their wishes is extraordinary. I'm now wondering if they haven't actually set up Putin by waving Ukraine red rag. I can now see them salivating at the huge market they see, and the US Govt dancing along happily at the prospect of protecting America from China using American equipment paid for by India, to be used by Indian soldiers ready to die fighting America's next war.

Indian people need to be extremely watchful and elect leaders with nerves of steel and India's interests paramount at every level of govt because System 2.0 has the will and means to exploit us from outside and inside.

Lastly I wish our Lok & Rajya Sabha members get so focused and sharp someday instead of the crop of mostly idiotic turds we get today. hum hongey kaamyaab some day....

+101 . Absolutely. That is the American game plan., make money while they are at it., same reason i say bring on the CAATSA !!

[Manish_Sharma]

@vkjha62

Thread

50 years ago, this week in 1971, the USA threatened India to stop the 1971 war. An alarmed India sent a SOS to the Soviet Union. A story that has been nearly erased from Indian history books.

1/

When Pakistan's defeat in the 1971 war seemed imminent, Kissinger spurred Nixon to send the US 7th Fleet’s Task Force, led by the nuclear-powered aircraft carrier USS Enterprise, to the Bay of Bengal.
2/

The USS Enterprise, at 75,000 ton, was the world's largest nuclear-powered aircraft carrier in the 1970s with more than 70 fighter aircraft. A monster. The Indian Navy’s fleet was led by the 20,000-ton aircraft carrier, Vikrant, with 20 light fighter aircraft.
3/

The USS Enterprise was being dispatched to secure American citizens in Bangladesh was the official American statement. Unofficially it was to threaten the Indian forces and prevent the liberation of East Pakistan. India soon got another bad news.
4/

Soviet intelligence reported to India that a powerful British naval group led by the aircraft carrier HMS Eagle with commando carrier HMS Albion, several destroyers and other ships were approaching India's territorial waters from the west, towards the Arabian Sea.
5/

The British and the Americans planned a coordinated pincer attack to intimidate India: the British ships in the Arabian Sea will target India's western coast, while Americans would make a dash to Chittagong. Caught between the British & the American ships was the Indian Navy.
6/

It was December 1971, and the world’s two leading democracies were now threatening the world’s largest democracy. An SOS from Delhi was sent to Moscow. The Red Navy soon dispatched 16 Soviet naval units and six nuclear submarines from Vladivostok to block USS Enterprise.
7/

Admiral N. Krishnan, the chief of the Eastern Command of the Indian Navy, wrote in his book, 'No Way But Surrender' that he was afraid that the Americans will reach Chittagong. He mentions how they even thought of attacking Enterprise, in a do or die move, to slow it down.
8/

On December 2nd week 1971, the US 7th Fleet’s Task Force, led by monstrous USS Enterprise arrived in the Bay of Bengal. The British fleet was arriving in the Arabian Sea. The world held its breath.
But,unknown to Americans, the submerged Soviet submarines had overtaken them.
9/

As USS Enterprise moved towards East Pakistan, the Soviet submarines surfaced without any warning. The Soviet subs were now standing between India and the US naval force.

The Americans were shocked.
10/

Admiral Gordon told the 7th American Fleet Commander: "Sir, we are too late. The Soviets are here!"

Both the American and British fleets backed off. Today, most Indians have forgotten about this colossal naval chess battle between the two superpowers in the Bay of Bengal.
End
_/\_

https://twitter.com/vkjha62/status/1497 ... K9QWQ&s=19

[srikandan]

Some random Indian-origin american woman who wants to make sooth-asian movies in India -- need to watch who else pushes this character in India. Use of the word "sooth asia" is a marker for a US-origin agenda.

https://indianexpress.com/article/enter ... e-7802868/