Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 06 Mar 2022 00:12

Four Ukrainian Su-27 Jets, Bayraktar Drone Downed West of Kiev, Russian MoD Says https://sputniknews.com/20220305/four-u ... 19905.html

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 06 Mar 2022 00:14

https://t.me/sputniknewsus/8770 The Russian MoD has shown video footage of the use of Ka-52 helicopters in combat as part of the special op in Ukraine-Russian Attack Helicopters Destroy Ukrainian Armoured Vehicles

John · Post by **John** » 06 Mar 2022 00:20

IndraD wrote:Four Ukrainian Su-27 Jets, Bayraktar Drone Downed West of Kiev, Russian MoD Says https://sputniknews.com/20220305/four-u ... 19905.html

I don’t believe Ukr is even flying their Su-27s now after that accidental shoot down they seem to have been grounded. I know there is rabid fan base online looking for the Ghost.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 06 Mar 2022 00:43

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/uk ... a4692ed70a

India calls for ceasefire after students in Ukraine plead for evacuation
From CNN’s Esha Mitra in New Delhi

The Indian government is speaking to officials in both Russia and Ukraine to press for a ceasefire after Indian students stuck in Ukraine appealed for evacuations, a government spokesperson said Saturday.

“We are strongly urging both sides to have a ceasefire; whether it will happen, when it will happen, is something we will see as it happens," said Arindam Bagchi, a spokesperson of India’s Ministry of External Affairs, during a Saturday news conference. "But I hope it happens because that will be something useful and necessary for us, otherwise we are putting them at risk. … We will continue to press on this."

At least 700 Indian students are stranded in Sumy, a city in northeastern Ukraine, according to the ministry.

Bagchi said the other primary concern was transportation, as Sumy is about 30 miles from the Russian border and train lines are not operational.

Bagchi said buses or trucks would be a plausible option; however, the best route out would be determined by officials on ground. Meanwhile, Denis Alipov, the Russian ambassador to India, said Russia had responded to India’s request for help and arranged for “hundreds of buses."

“We have created special groups that are ready to take the Indians to the territory of the Russian Federation and then transport them to India, but the catch is the fighting in these areas continues and where the Indians are, our forces are not,” Alipov said Saturday, adding that Indian diplomats were in Belgrade, Serbia, to coordinate action on ground. Bagchi said that he understood the students’ feelings of being left behind but urged them to remain in shelters. Students have told CNN that the Indian embassy has not responded to their calls, but Bagchi said, “we are talking to the students directly both from the embassy and our control room here.”

“If there is a corridor, we will find a way to get them out," he said. "If there is a pause in fighting, I assure you we will be able to pull them out."

Bagchi said that all Indian citizens had left Kharkiv as far as the ministry was aware, but the embassy will take a fresh look to identify any citizens that remain.

nam · Post by **nam** » 06 Mar 2022 00:46

all the images of Su30 and Su34 indicates heavy cloud cover.

Really bad weather for high flying campaign. You can't use PGM for Syria style CAS.

The pilots are flying below the cloud and those big birds are easy prey for manpad and low level SAM.

In Syria it worked because it does have such cloud cover.

John · Post by **John** » 06 Mar 2022 00:57

nam wrote:all the images of Su30 and Su34 indicates heavy cloud cover.

Really bad weather for high flying campaign. You can't use PGM for Syria style CAS.

The pilots are flying below the cloud and those big birds are easy prey for manpad and low level SAM.

In Syria it worked because it does have such cloud cover.

Even during low altitude bombing it make sense to use short standoff weapons or PGMs especially when there is presence of short range air defense? Unguided bombs are more than 10 times less accurate than PGM (that’s with trained crews) and not to mention it takes longer to do bombing runs with unguided munitions.

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 06 Mar 2022 02:34

Looks like one of the earlier MI's getting shot. This is the best video of a MANPAD bringing down a plane/chopper I have ever seen.

https://old.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/ ... inian_air/

kit · Post by **kit** » 06 Mar 2022 03:10

Jay wrote:Looks like one of the earlier MI's getting shot. This is the best video of a MANPAD bringing down a plane/chopper I have ever seen.

https://old.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/ ... inian_air/

Too good to be believed !! staged ?

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 06 Mar 2022 03:13

https://www.rt.com/russia/551314-putin- ... ne-tactic/ Putin explains why Ukraine attack went beyond Donbass

Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Saturday that he chose to attack Ukraine beyond the borders of the Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics (DPR and LPR) to prevent the West from “endlessly” supplying “nationalists and radicals” with various resources, such as weapons and money. He added that the Russian forces were “practically done” destroying Ukrainian military sites, such as air defenses and weapons depots.

The president stated that he had ordered Russian troops to invade Ukraine last week in order to neutralize the “real threat” coming from Kiev and NATO. Moscow has long protested the Western military infrastructure along its borders and Ukraine’s aspirations to join the US-led bloc.

“They began to say more actively that they will admit [Ukraine] to NATO. What will this lead to? All other members of the alliance must back Ukraine in the case of a military conflict,” Putin said. “They will [attack] Crimea, and we will be forced to go to war with NATO. Do you understand the consequences?” The president stated that he wanted Ukraine to become a neutral country.

Crimea voted to leave Ukraine and join Russia shortly after the 2014 coup in Kiev. It was during that time that the DPR and LPR broke away from Ukraine.

“Let’s acquire nuclear weapons, they say [in Ukraine]. We can’t simply ignore it,” Putin said, referring to President Volodymyr Zelensky’s remark last month that Kiev might be forced to reconsider its status as a non-nuclear-weapons state.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 06 Mar 2022 03:23

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 06 Mar 2022 04:33

US doesn’t want to do frecking democrats campaigned against it
Now in absence of Ru oil they r signing deal w Iran
Israel is meanwhile cheering for defeat of Putin
Saudi UAE sulking away from US
Kindly put all of them in one context!

Meanwhile Iran has lampooned Putin (who saved them from CIA in Syra) https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/20 ... es-islamic

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 06 Mar 2022 04:35

zimbawe becomes the first country to face punishment sanction from US for not toeing line in UN against Russia https://allafrica.com/view/group/main/m ... p%3Aabqpss

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 06 Mar 2022 04:39

IndraD wrote:US doesn’t want to do frecking democrats campaigned against it
Now in absence of Ru oil they r signing deal w Iran
Israel is meanwhile cheering for defeat of Putin
Saudi UAE sulking away from US
Kindly put all of them in one context!

Meanwhile Iran has lampooned Putin (who saved them from CIA in Syra) https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/20 ... es-islamic

Israeli govt is in a bind . They need Russia’s help with Syria but also have to support Zelensky

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 06 Mar 2022 04:47

today their PM met Putin

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 06 Mar 2022 06:23

Can't make the image any smaller

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 06 Mar 2022 07:23

IndraD wrote:today their PM met Putin

That is big news. Neftali Bennet might be trying to negotiate a ceasefire

https://www.reuters.com/world/israeli-p ... 022-03-05/

Y. Kanan · Post by **Y. Kanan** » 06 Mar 2022 07:29

chetak wrote:

Interesting how the world balance of power is shifting. The lines are being drawn as humanity heads for its next great schism. On the western/globalist side you’ve got the US & Britain as the core members, with their vassals Germany, France, the remaining NATO states including Canada, plus Japan, South Korea and Australia, all sharing the same immediate goal: crush the upstart Russians and go back to maintaining their global dominance and imposing their global order.

Then you’ve got the Russo-Chinese bloc opposing them, with their vassals like North Korea, Pakistan, Iran, Syria, Belarus and a handful of other states on the globalist west’s naughty list. There’s also some small players that can’t do much but might be willing to help either Russia or China depending on the circumstances, such as the UEA, Serbia, Ecuador, Cuba, Venezuela, Myanmar, and various African states.

And then there’s the prominent neutral states who are military or economically important and therefore, their neutrality is also important, and the possibility of their taking a side is obviously of great interest to both sides. The most notable of these is of course India, but the neutral stance of Brazil, Mexico, and South Africa is also noteworthy. Which way will they go? Will any of the powerful neutrals take a side? Will India take a side?

And then there’s Turkey, which has a novel strategy of not properly taking any side and simultaneously attacking everyone. It’s a bold strategy; let’s see if that works out for them.

But seriously it seems like India is on the verge of truly jumping in bed with the west. The Indian media coverage has been extremely one-sided and almost identical to the US & British reporting. If the tone of Indian mainstream media is any indication, we’ve basically already picked the western side but are just not quite ready to take the leap yet. I hope I’m wrong because I would prefer we remain a neutral player, more than willing to defend our interests forcefully when needed, but keeping the western/globalist club safely at arms length. They have already captured the minds of too many of our young people. I think in the long run, embracing the west effectively spells the demise of Indian civilization, because it more or less ensures that Muslim culture will displace Hindu culture (for reasons too numerous to list here).

achy · Post by **achy** » 06 Mar 2022 07:46

Israeli PM meeting Putin was supposed to be secret but now everyone knows... very very interesting. I think he might have carried an offer from unkil but perhaps not enough to Putin's liking.

If oil goes to 150, we will start hearing "this is not our war". Oil is to US what onions are to India. Oil@150 is detrimental to even China and India. In coming days, We may see a worldwide clamor for Zelensky to back down and perhaps immense pressure on Putin from its purported friends like China and India to design a face saver.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 06 Mar 2022 08:12

^^I find many podcasts from the commentariat in India incredibly well informed and nuanced.

The MSM otherwise is absurdly partisan with hyperventilating, hysterical, patently blind (can’t call it) reportage.

There is definitely Russophobia and a galaxy sized blind spot in the narrative. Balance and context seem to be deliberately misplaced.

This war will well be over before gasoline hits 5 Euro in Germany.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 06 Mar 2022 08:17

^it seems all desi news channels are directed by one puppeteer. They all start showing same fake news simultaneously almost a dozen times every day.
______________________

Two Ukrainian Tochka-U ballistic missiles successfully intercepted by Russian S400 missile system, over Belgorod city.
https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... LjKLA&s=19

John · Post by **John** » 06 Mar 2022 08:41

Y. Kanan wrote:Seems like the Russians are outnumbered and out-equipped in most of the engagements I’ve seen. They don’t match the media narrative of mass Russian armored forces rolling over heroic, outnumbered Ukrainian defenders.

I think one of the great lies of this war is how they’ve managed to make everyone think the Ukrainians are outnumbered or ill equipped. Quite the opposite: they’ve actually enjoyed a significant numerical advantage from the very start, and that numerical advantage is only growing with each day. Nor are the Ukrainians poorly equipped compared to the Russians. The Ukrainians have a distinct edge in their comms, night vision and thermal sights, GPS, drones, anti-tank missiles, man portable SAM’s, and logistics in general. Not to mention they enjoy satellite intel from the US, JSTARS info on all Russian ground movements from nearby JSTARS aircraft, constant AWACS monitoring of all airspace in theater, and all sorts of other force multipliers the Russians lack.

So the Ukrainians have both the qualitative AND the quantitative advantage, as well as the home turf advantage, and still they’re barely holding on? The Russians are doing quite well, all things considered.

Ukraine doesn’t have Qualitative or Quantitative. Let’s look piece by piece

Troops: Ukraine military on paper can field about 200k soldiers (but real figure is more around 100k at the start of this year) where as Russia has standing army of close to a million

Tanks: only 300 or so T-80s and lot of obsolete base T-62/T-72s compared to Russia’s 360 T-90s and over 2000 upgraded T-72s. Adv: Russia has numerical and quantitative adv not even close.

APC: Ukr fields about 2000 BMP vs 5000+ for Russia and Russia has BMP-3 which are superior to BMP-2 fielded by Ukr. Adv: Russia again

Art: Ukraine fields only 63 2s19 rest are obsolete Gbozdika and Akastiya . Where as Russia fields 700+ 2S19. Adv: Russia again

MRL: Ukraine has very few Smerch and Uragan in operation and fields some Grads. Russia only has more Smerch than all of Ukr MRLs combined and not to mention large nos of Grads. Adv: Russia again

SAM: Ukraine fields some obsolete S-300 and Buk, a good chunk of S-300 went over to Crimea leaving Ukraine further depleted. Russia we all know fields one of most formidable air defense systems especially with S-400. Adv: Russia again

Cruise missiles/Short range ballistic missile: While Ukraine was working on some new ballistic and cruise missile none of them are in production where as Russia posses large no of Kalibr and Isklander missiles. Ukraine only counter is some obsolete Tochka which Russia also fields in large nos.

Fighter jets: Ukr Fields less than 60 ACs.. Adv: Russia again

Troop gear and training : This is only area I can give Ukraine the advantage and If wasn’t for this war we would have said advantage would be with Russia again. Ukrainians troops
appear better trained and better equipped.

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 06 Mar 2022 08:45

Lukashenko's video with english subs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FX-h4Q9UXcQ

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 06 Mar 2022 08:46

kit wrote:
Jay wrote:Looks like one of the earlier MI's getting shot. This is the best video of a MANPAD bringing down a plane/chopper I have ever seen.

https://old.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/ ... inian_air/

Too good to be believed !! staged ?

.

Anything is possible, but to my eyes, it does not look like a fake shot.

John · Post by **John** » 06 Mar 2022 08:47

Jay wrote:
kit wrote:

Too good to be believed !! staged ?
.

Anything is possible, but to my eyes, it does not look like a fake shot.

Video was captured by a drone fyi

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 06 Mar 2022 09:10

Ukraine War - Drone Shows Intense Close Combat Between Ukrainian & Russian Troops In Kherson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1dXAs2ybIU

Russian infantry setups an Ambush against a UKR BRDM. the infantry does not have any ATGM or even an RPG. shows how poorly russians are equipped.

williams · Post by **williams** » 06 Mar 2022 09:31

Y. Kanan wrote:
But seriously it seems like India is on the verge of truly jumping in bed with the west. The Indian media coverage has been extremely one-sided and almost identical to the US & British reporting. If the tone of Indian mainstream media is any indication, we’ve basically already picked the western side but are just not quite ready to take the leap yet. I hope I’m wrong because I would prefer we remain a neutral player, more than willing to defend our interests forcefully when needed, but keeping the western/globalist club safely at arm's length. They have already captured the minds of too many of our young people. I think in the long run, embracing the west effectively spells the demise of Indian civilization because it more or less ensures that Muslim culture will displace Hindu culture (for reasons too numerous to list here).

Saar, I think most DDM is simply copying western media sources and not doing their own homework. The problem is the cost of India remaining neutral. We happily opened our market to the west and even brought weapons from them (some of them even strategic in nature. Think about Tejas engines). We continued to depend on Russia for some of our key weapon systems. We have a big enemy China collaborating with the other enemy Pakistan in the borders. Russia has no other way but to depend on China after this isolation. Where we go from here is a complex problem that I am sure MEA babus and NSA are breaking their heads as we speak. IMHO the moment West starts making it expensive for us to be neutral we will jump ship. Unfortunately West has the power to do that, given we continued to be foolish and did not develop the necessary hard power to do otherwise.

Anoop · Post by **Anoop** » 06 Mar 2022 09:40

https://youtu.be/b4wRdoWpw0w

An interesting take on the limitations of Russian logistics that relies on their railways within their borders, but is susceptible to interruption outside their borders.

Y. Kanan · Post by **Y. Kanan** » 06 Mar 2022 09:45

williams wrote:IMHO the moment West starts making it expensive for us to be neutral we will jump ship.

Jump ship to where? Once we burn our bridges with Russia, we'll lose them as a powerful ally and be stuck begging for western military hardware and subject to their deep state machinations.

ShivS · Post by **ShivS** » 06 Mar 2022 10:56

chetak wrote:
ShivS wrote:
What sort of identification would you need? We had the gps co ordinates - that’s enough - building won’t change location and you can’t see inside the building.

SAR targeting is for mobile targets - started with the F18 against ships.

precision guidance generally uses MIL grade GPS

The GPS that India has access to is the normal run of the mill GPS with its purposely built in errors

You are right, should have used just co ordinates

As an aside there is no difference between the range error of GPS signals for military and civilian use now. The military uses dual frequencies for robustness and distortion management but the signals are the same.

pravula · Post by **pravula** » 06 Mar 2022 11:07

Aren’t Mil gps encrypted?

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 06 Mar 2022 11:50

India has access to NavIC and GAGAN starting in 2013. It is high time to end defence imports. It's still not too late as CAPEX for domestic systems has to be increased.

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 06 Mar 2022 11:53

Anoop wrote:https://youtu.be/b4wRdoWpw0w

An interesting take on the limitations of Russian logistics that relies on their railways within their borders, but is susceptible to interruption outside their borders.

From the same Reddit discussion there’s a link to another analysis that gives the Russian pov. That what they adee doing - while slower than anticipated - is in line with their doctrine.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K5BAZ2bBUzM

nam · Post by **nam** » 06 Mar 2022 12:37

John wrote:Even during low altitude bombing it make sense to use short standoff weapons or PGMs especially when there is presence of short range air defense? Unguided bombs are more than 10 times less accurate than PGM (that’s with trained crews) and not to mention it takes longer to do bombing runs with unguided munitions.

We don't know the situation around why the Su34 was carrying dumb bombs. It is possible these are secondary areas which were not expected to have worthwhile targets.

Other than US(may be the Chinis now) no country has the money to carry out large scale PGM only campaign. Russia also needs to be prepared for any escalation from NATO. Despite claims, the UkAF is nowhere to be seen. The fighters were probably doing target of opportunity hunt.

Modern fighters are fairly good with dumb bombs. RuAF has got experience with dumb bombs in Syria and they have given fairly good results.

All these won't work on a cloud cover. You just cannot see the target, either for PGM or dumb bombs, while doing CAS. The pilots would have gone under the cloud to scout for target and got caught up with Manpads. There are numerous videos of Su30 & Su34 downing low level flying.

I suppose the Russians will change tactics and use the artillery as a primary CAS.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 06 Mar 2022 13:59

kit · Post by **kit** » 06 Mar 2022 14:11

Y. Kanan wrote:
williams wrote:IMHO the moment West starts making it expensive for us to be neutral we will jump ship.
Jump ship to where? Once we burn our bridges with Russia, we'll lose them as a powerful ally and be stuck begging for western military hardware and subject to their deep state machinations.

"Jumping Ship" is NOT an option for India. Let the west make India a permanent member of security council with a veto. THEN, we will talk !

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 06 Mar 2022 14:15

vera_k wrote:Pretty amazing to see how many Indians live in Ukraine!

Telugu man refuses to abandon two pet Jaguars and flee Donbas

At lease he is not demanding GoI to airlift him along with his jaguars !

kit · Post by **kit** » 06 Mar 2022 14:21

Posting this only because some members need to be reminded !!

LETS NEVER FORGET THIS, IF HISTORY TEACHES ONE A LESSON, IT IS TO NEVER FORGET

During the 1971 War, as the Indian Army launched its blitzkrieg into East Pakistan – present day Bangladesh – US President Richard Nixon had a terrible idea. Under the pretext of evacuating American citizens from the warzone, Nixon ordered the US Seventh Fleet’s Task Force 74, led by the nuclear powered aircraft carrier Enterprise, to proceed towards the Bay of Bengal. He was spurred on by Henry Kissinger, his National Security Advisor.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 625404.cms

A set of freshly declassified top secret papers on the 1971 war show that US hostility towards India during the war with Pakistan was far more intense than known until now.

The documents reveal that Indira Gandhi went ahead with her plan to liberate Bangladesh despite inputs that the Nixon Administration had kept three battalions of Marines on standby to deter India, and that the American aircraft carrier USS Enterprise had orders to target Indian Army facilities.

The Soviet Indian Ocean naval component also got a lucky break with three of their ships near the Straits of Malacca, on their return passage to their Pacific homeport when the information about the possible US naval deployment to the Indian Ocean became general knowledge. These were retained and reinforced by two further task groups that arrived in the Indian Ocean on December 18 and 26. These Soviet naval assets continued to shadow the TF 74 off Sri Lanka until its return passage to the Pacific theatre on January 8, 1972.”

In addition, 12 other Soviet naval ships were present in the Indian Ocean. However, none of these Russian vessels were in the vicinity or heading for the Bay of Bengal or North Arabian Sea, where the Indian Navy was continuing with its operations.

It is an indication of how serious the Russians were about defending India that Moscow started despatching naval detachments from across the globe to Indian waters. Kissinger referred to unconfirmed reports about Soviet Mediterranean Fleet units being directed to the Indian Ocean and Bay of Bengal, but these warships were unlikely to arrive in time.

The reason Russia was able to quickly direct all this heavy naval firepower into the warzone was the Soviet Navy had rapidly grown into an impressive blue water force under Admiral of the Fleet Sergei Gorshkov.

John B. Hattendorf writes in ‘US Naval Strategy in the 1970s’ that the year 1970 was a seminal one as the Soviet Navy carried out the first of its OKEAN global war games that involved combined and joint forces for defensive, offensive and expeditionary operations. “The 200-ship exercise covered the four major theatres of the Atlantic, Pacific and Indian oceans as well as the Mediterranean Sea. This was also period that the majority of the US Navy was approaching en masse obsolescence. The increase in Soviet naval presence was especially notable in the Indian Ocean which far outstripped the US Navy deployments, although it is qualified that most of these deployments were in the North and South-West Indian Oceans.”

With such massive forces at its disposal, the Russian military forces were confident of repelling any American adventurism. Mishra says the Russian ambassador to India had dismissed the possibilities of the US or China intervening by emphasising that the Russian fleet was also in the Indian Ocean and would not allow the Seventh Fleet to interfere; and if China moved in Ladakh, Russia would respond in Xinjiang. As Nixon raged in the White House, a million Russian troops were stationed on the Chinese border.

At this point, Task Force 74 was east off Sri Lanka and this naval deployment had generated considerable anti-US feeling in India. Indian Foreign Minister Swaran Singh said that if the US invaded, the Indians would trap the Americans in a disaster greater than Vietnam.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 06 Mar 2022 14:55

https://twitter.com/politblogme/status/ ... aL3yOypJFw

Maria Dubovikova
@politblogme
Far-right Ukrainian fighters hold hostage as a "human shield" about 5000 foreigners: in Kharkov up to 1500 students from India, 200 citizens of Jordan, 60 - of Egypt, 15 - of Vietnam; In Sumy: 576 - of India, 159 - of Tanzania, 121 - of China, 100 - of Ghana, 60 - of Egypt,..

Maria Dubovikova
@politblogme
... 45 - of Jordan, 16 - of Pakistan, 15 - of Tunisia and 14 - of Zambia in Sumy.

That's more than 2000 Indians. I think this will be the pattern in all cities where Ukraine army is located.

LakshmanPST · Post by **LakshmanPST** » 06 Mar 2022 15:12

hanumadu wrote:https://twitter.com/politblogme/status/ ... aL3yOypJFw

Maria Dubovikova
@politblogme
Far-right Ukrainian fighters hold hostage as a "human shield" about 5000 foreigners: in Kharkov up to 1500 students from India, 200 citizens of Jordan, 60 - of Egypt, 15 - of Vietnam; In Sumy: 576 - of India, 159 - of Tanzania, 121 - of China, 100 - of Ghana, 60 - of Egypt,..

Maria Dubovikova
@politblogme
... 45 - of Jordan, 16 - of Pakistan, 15 - of Tunisia and 14 - of Zambia in Sumy.
That's more than 2000 Indians. I think this will be the pattern in all cities where Ukraine army is located.

But Indian Govt. yesterday said that all Indians left Kharkiv...
1500 is a big number...
It is probably old news...

As per Govt. release yesterday, only Sumy city have Indians still stuck... Indians in all other cities are more or less out of danger...

kit · Post by **kit** » 06 Mar 2022 15:27