Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 23 Feb 2022 13:40

IIRC the efforts to use Hellfire in a G to G role was shot down in the US for inter services powergames. We should not make such a mistake.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 23 Feb 2022 14:00

Yagnasri wrote:IIRC the efforts to use Hellfire in a G to G role was shot down in the US for inter services powergames. We should not make such a mistake.

The same circumstances will not be applicable in India. If we develop a domestic cheaper alternative to NAG. It could be developed from the ground up as a multi platform missile.

Alternatively the NAG family can have new members added. Such as a NOLS missile with a range of 40+ kms. It could have both ground and helicopter launched applications.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 23 Feb 2022 18:43

CLGM is ground to ground line of sight. Its "cannon launched" and is designed to be fired from the Arjun main gun, as a Lahat replacement. Had another name too - called SAMHO

Hiten · Post by **Hiten** » 25 Feb 2022 19:48

For It's Project 650 Anti-Radiation Missile, DRDO Is Looking At India Inc. To Join Cause

https://www.spansen.com/2022/02/for-its ... a-inc.html

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 25 Feb 2022 20:05

^^ Does the 2-way data link mean that, if the target radar moves, the launch aircraft can feed the new INS/GPS coordinates to Rudram for it to re-acquire and target (subject to its aerodynamic envelope)?

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 01 Mar 2022 08:45

Ashokk wrote:Area warning
#AreaWarning #India issues a notification for the launch of an experimental flight vehicle over the #BayOfBengal, included in the danger zone is Abdul Kalam Island - the probable launch site

Second Consecutive failure to test missiles after official Notam declaration

Hope we do not hit an hatrick with the upcoming Notam issued for March.

srin · Post by **srin** » 01 Mar 2022 09:19

^^^ How do we know that we didn't test the missiles?

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 01 Mar 2022 12:38

Exactly. These NOTAMs are to warn people. Tests can then be conducted but there is no need to announce. Maybe they're experimental, maybe they want to run a few successful tests before announcement etc

A couple of these NOTAMs were explicitly stated for experimental vehicles. We don't know what they are. Twitter handles are having a field day speculating

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 02 Mar 2022 03:17

srin wrote:^^^ How do we know that we didn't test the missiles?

Whenever we have tested, we have always reported it, even if the tests were a failure.

Not reporting the tests domestically does not make sense as people/countries we would like to not know about it are any way not going to rely on our press releases.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 02 Mar 2022 04:09

^
There have been passing mentions of the number of tests of Prithvi, Akash and Brahmos( and these appeared on BR years ago) made by defense officials, and their numbers did not match the closely followed, officially announced tests. For example one official( in DRDO or the military) made reference to 40 tests of Brahmos, another to 70 odd tests of Akash, and another to 50 or so tests of Prithvi. And these numbers are from several years ago. Unless the anomalous figures are references to both ground tests and actual launches, it's very likely there have been a few more tests than those reported by the media.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 02 Mar 2022 04:48

Vips wrote:
srin wrote:^^^ How do we know that we didn't test the missiles?
Whenever we have tested, we have always reported it, even if the tests were a failure.

Not reporting the tests domestically does not make sense as people/countries we would like to not know about it are any way not going to rely on our press releases.

Don't count on all tests being reported anymore. There are multiple reasons for maintaining higher grade opsec now.

srin · Post by **srin** » 02 Mar 2022 08:48

Vips wrote:
srin wrote:^^^ How do we know that we didn't test the missiles?
Whenever we have tested, we have always reported it, even if the tests were a failure.

Not reporting the tests domestically does not make sense as people/countries we would like to not know about it are any way not going to rely on our press releases.

Not true at all.
K-15 was reportedly tested upto 7 times by 2008, and yet there were no announcements.
We didn't even know that K-4 was tested until a video was released having a few seconds of snippet in it.

Our defence establishment can be extremely secretive when it wants to be.

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 02 Mar 2022 19:34

K15/K4 were tested under the pretext of testing of other missiles. There is no way a missile can be tested in total secrecy due to the logistics involved and in this age of 24 X 7 X 365 satellite monitoring.

srin · Post by **srin** » 02 Mar 2022 19:39

^^^ A missile test may not be a secret to the satellites or the "fishing vessels" in deep sea in BoB. But they are still secrets to us. There is no need for DRDO to confirm what missile is what and what was tested. The DRDO doesn't *need* to issue a press release after each launch, nor do they need to tell the whole truth. To expect otherwise is being naive.
I am glad for the titbits they share.

There is no evidence that nothing was tested a few days ago. Absence of evidence of launch is not evidence of absence.

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 02 Mar 2022 21:31

Likewise there is no evidence there was indeed a test that took place.

If at all a missile test took place there is absolutely no way that this info will not be out due to the presence of local journos or nearby defence enthusiasts or some villagers/local residents not mentioning it to someone.

Ashokk · Post by **Ashokk** » 03 Mar 2022 01:56

Area Warning

#AreaWarning #India issues a notification for the launch of an experimental flight vehicle over the #BayOfBengal
Launch Window | 06-07 March 2022

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 Mar 2022 02:51

So either a glitch or to avoid provocation in the Ukraine Crisis.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 03 Mar 2022 03:30

Wonder what the dependency is for Brahmos. R-27 can be replaced with Astra I would think.

India braces for sanctions on Russia to delay weapons programs, deliveries

The major casualties could be the production of over 600000 AK-203 7.62x39mm assault rifles in partnership with Kalashnikov Group, and the export of Brahmos cruise missile batteries to the Philippines. Planned pitches to Indonesia and Vietnam could also take a hit.

One Indian Air Force official said it seems India will not ever get deliveries of Vympel R-27 air-to-air missiles

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 Mar 2022 04:12

Isnt R-27 from Ukraine?
Well since Kargil they had opportunities to seek locally made weapons.
Always found some fault to reject and buy in an emergency.
vera_k where is the IIR seeker for Astra? Or orders to ensure qty production of Astra?

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 03 Mar 2022 04:19

ramana wrote:Isnt R-27 from Ukraine?
Well since Kargil they had opportunities to seek locally made weapons.
Always found some fault to reject and buy in an emergency.
vera_k where is the IIR seeker for Astra? Or orders to ensure qty production of Astra?

I swear. To persist with the R-27 order when Astra exists is just crazy. Drop it already, move the orders to Astra ASAP.

titash · Post by **titash** » 03 Mar 2022 04:50

Karan M wrote:
ramana wrote:Isnt R-27 from Ukraine?
Well since Kargil they had opportunities to seek locally made weapons.
Always found some fault to reject and buy in an emergency.
vera_k where is the IIR seeker for Astra? Or orders to ensure qty production of Astra?
I swear. To persist with the R-27 order when Astra exists is just crazy. Drop it already, move the orders to Astra ASAP.

These are probably the ‘long burn’ variants R-27ER or R-27ET variants with semi-active or IR guidance. The missile is significantly longer and heavier than the Astra / R-77

Might be useful under heavy jamming necessitating BARS guidance, and silent long range IR shots

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 03 Mar 2022 04:56

The issue with the long burn variants is its guidance. The SARH guidance severely limits operational flexibility, reducing the extra range's utility in operational conditions. Per my rough estimates, Astra offers near equal performance without the guidance limitations.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 03 Mar 2022 06:11

vera_k wrote:Wonder what the dependency is for Brahmos. R-27 can be replaced with Astra I would think.

India braces for sanctions on Russia to delay weapons programs, deliveries

The major casualties could be the production of over 600000 AK-203 7.62x39mm assault rifles in partnership with Kalashnikov Group, and the export of Brahmos cruise missile batteries to the Philippines. Planned pitches to Indonesia and Vietnam could also take a hit.

One Indian Air Force official said it seems India will not ever get deliveries of Vympel R-27 air-to-air missiles

I would be most happy about the AK....

WRT Brahmos there are still some parts that come from Putinistan I think

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 03 Mar 2022 16:05

https://swarajyamag.com/defence/explain ... ce-imports

Some other impacts listed by the Swarajya article. The additional Su-30 MKIs, Mig-29s & the 4 frigates which have turbines from Ukraine.

I am also wondering about the rest of the S-400 order

If ever there was a crying need for Atmanirbhar, this is it! Needless to say, we will hear the dalals spin it as "if ever there was a need to import from the West, this is it"

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Mar 2022 02:43

Prem Kumar wrote:https://swarajyamag.com/defence/explain ... ce-imports

Some other impacts listed by the Swarajya article. The additional Su-30 MKIs, Mig-29s & the 4 frigates which have turbines from Ukraine.

I am also wondering about the rest of the S-400 order

If ever there was a crying need for Atmanirbhar, this is it! Needless to say, we will hear the dalals spin it as "if ever there was a need to import from the West, this is it"

Mostly fear-mongering article and surprised that Swarajya wrote it.

Under pressure from its Western partners, particularly the United States, to take a tough stand against the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Indian officials have argued in private that the country's dependence on Russian-origin equipment has limited New Delhi's manoeuvring space.

Its the same Indian officals who are at fault for this situation.
Also if in 2016 the gas turbines were contracted for its now 2022, who is at fault to ensure the engines are on delivery schedule?

John · Post by **John** » 05 Mar 2022 05:14

Its the same Indian officals who are at fault for this situation.
Also if in 2016 the gas turbines were contracted for its now 2022, who is at fault to ensure the engines are on delivery schedule?

The deal for 2 Admiral Grigorovich vessels was signed on Oct 2018, i am getting mixed results on whether Zorya completed the turbines or not. This report says it is completed for two vessels in Russia but others say otherwise.

https://theprint.in/defence/india-gets- ... 87923/?amp

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 06 Mar 2022 23:12

https://swarajyamag.com/news-headlines/ ... ity-proven

This is a very important event, because it confirms that Brahmos-ER has been deployed in our frontline destroyers

Like PSLV launches, a Brahmos-ER launch doesn't even make news in BRF anymore!

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 07 Mar 2022 10:57

Ashokk wrote:Area Warning
#AreaWarning #India issues a notification for the launch of an experimental flight vehicle over the #BayOfBengal
Launch Window | 06-07 March 2022

Brahmos ???

sudhan · Post by **sudhan** » 07 Mar 2022 19:23

AFAIK, India ordered the Long range variant of R27 with active seeker (EA / EM Variants) and IR seekers (post Balakote), this was, if I remember correctly to paper over the ramp up of Astra Mk1 production.

Karan M wrote:The issue with the long burn variants is its guidance. The SARH guidance severely limits operational flexibility, reducing the extra range's utility in operational conditions. Per my rough estimates, Astra offers near equal performance without the guidance limitations.

Most missiles with active seekers need to be guided till the onboard seeker (~15 kms) can take over. The R27 variant chosen here potentially has a bigger active radar guidance range than Astra Mk1.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 07 Mar 2022 23:01

sudhan wrote:AFAIK, India ordered the Long range variant of R27 with active seeker (EA / EM Variants) and IR seekers (post Balakote), this was, if I remember correctly to paper over the ramp up of Astra Mk1 production.

That was the speculation here since nobody could figure out why the IAF would R-27's in this day and age if that wasn't the case. But is there an actual source that mentions that the order definitely was for the active variant?

basant · Post by **basant** » 07 Mar 2022 23:38

nachiket wrote:That was the speculation here since nobody could figure out why the IAF would R-27's in this day and age if that wasn't the case. But is there an actual source that mentions that the order definitely was for the active variant?

Probably due to prop up numbers and capacity limitations. Astras were ordered too (248 missiles).

MeshaVishwas · Post by **MeshaVishwas** » 08 Mar 2022 21:59

Just some spectacular shots of the INS Chennai letting loose a BrahMos in the Andaman Sea and the missile just about to hit the target at a very very steep angle (That is Javagal Srinath going for the stumps: no escape and no surrender).

Images shared by the ANC on Twitter

Anant · Post by **Anant** » 08 Mar 2022 22:09

MeshaVishwas wrote:Just some spectacular shots of the INS Chennai letting loose a BrahMos in the Andaman Sea and the missile just about to hit the target at a very very steep angle (That is Javagal Srinath going for the stumps: no escape and no surrender).

Images shared by the ANC on Twitter

That last photo is really something. Wonder how many frames/sec that camera captures. Nice snaps!

morem · Post by **morem** » 08 Mar 2022 22:13

CEP < 5 m looks like

MeshaVishwas · Post by **MeshaVishwas** » 08 Mar 2022 22:28

morem wrote:CEP < 5 m looks like

From a few years back

These successful firings of the supersonic cruise missile were carried out in full operational land-to-land configurations from Mobile Autonomous Launchers (MAL) at its full-range. Meeting all flight parameters in a copybook manner while conducting high level and complex manoeuvers, the multi-role missile successfully hit the land-based target with desired precision, in both the trials demonstrating its accuracy of less than one metre.

Link

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 08 Mar 2022 22:37

MeshaVishwas wrote:Just some spectacular shots of the INS Chennai letting loose a BrahMos in the Andaman Sea and the missile just about to hit the target at a very very steep angle (That is Javagal Srinath going for the stumps: no escape and no surrender).

Images shared by the ANC on Twitter

A split second follow up to the second image in your post.

https://twitter.com/ThingsNavy/status/1 ... Ldhfd2eT7Q ---> An extended-range land attack BrahMos supersonic cruise missile dug in at its target, showcasing its pinpoint accuracy after it was fired without a warhead from sea. Missile was fired from Andaman Sea recently at an uninhabited island.

kit · Post by **kit** » 08 Mar 2022 22:38

MeshaVishwas wrote:
morem wrote:CEP < 5 m looks like
From a few years back
These successful firings of the supersonic cruise missile were carried out in full operational land-to-land configurations from Mobile Autonomous Launchers (MAL) at its full-range. Meeting all flight parameters in a copybook manner while conducting high level and complex manoeuvers, the multi-role missile successfully hit the land-based target with desired precision, in both the trials demonstrating its accuracy of less than one metre.
Link

A quarter ton of HEx going right for that flag from a ship parked some hundreds of miles away... ah karachi harbour ..

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 09 Mar 2022 00:08

Why are you guys surprised? That thing could hit a small window-sized triangle right from the very early trials. Frightening accuracy.

John · Post by **John** » 09 Mar 2022 00:14

A split second follow up to the second image in your post.

https://twitter.com/ThingsNavy/status/1 ... Ldhfd2eT7Q ---> An extended-range land attack BrahMos supersonic cruise missile dug in at its target, showcasing its pinpoint accuracy after it was fired without a warhead from sea. Missile was fired from Andaman Sea recently at an uninhabited island.

I think this is mistakenly quoted or not stated clearly, they make it sound like that photo is of missile sticking out of the ground when in fact it is photo of it when it struck the ground.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Mar 2022 00:47

Bad English. Very clear its quite close to the target.