Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 08 Mar 2022 06:07

kit wrote:https://www.newsbharati.com/Encyc/2022/ ... ports.html
Amid all this there are reports that India might get a discounted oil directly from Russia if India chooses to trade with Russian companies. Some sources are suggesting the discount could be as high as 27%.

The billion dollar question is this... how do we pay them? It is best that we returned to the old barter system, but what can we supply to secure oil and military equipment from them? Food products (tea, spices), clothing, pharmaceuticals, engineering goods, building material. It has to be carefully staged as a "humanitarian" deal, emphasizing on fertilizer imports into India to ensure we don't have a famine rather than talking about S-400s.

UBanerjee · Post by **UBanerjee** » 08 Mar 2022 06:17

Meanwhile, the Paki (GUBO for Unkil) faction of the Ukies have been busy making sure no one negotiates with the evil Russkies:

Member of the Ukrainian negotiation team was assassinated by the Ukrainian security service with 2 shots to the chest.

Vladimir Struk, mayor of Kreminna (Ukrainian-controlled part of Lugansk oblast) was found dead (shot through the heart) after having been abducted by men wearing military gear. He had been called a separatist and traitor by Ukrainian media for his pro-Russian position in 2014.

No direct links to Twitter anymore. Only archives. Too much American tinkering with the "disinformation".

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 08 Mar 2022 06:35

yensoy wrote:The billion dollar question is this... how do we pay them?

If it comes to that, they'll take gold I bet. Or the digital rupee if it is backed by gold!

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 08 Mar 2022 06:58

Deans wrote:
Baikul wrote:
Interesting data. But over what time period?
Iraq 2003-9
Afghanistan 2003-20

While the time period is long, there was negligible enemy activity. Sortie rate of RuAF over the past week would probably equal US sorties in a year in either Iraq or Afghanistan.

A better comparison might be gulf war 1.0.
IIRC in a month long campaign the mighty aukusaf lost over 50 birds not including choppers. And this with a few dozen awac + tankers as backup. Coupled with heavy CM strikes and carpet bombing by b1s, b2s, b52s, ssgns you name it. No doubt the use of pgms was relatively novel then, but still.

People talking about russki fighters dropping like flies based on western-ukranian reports have no idea..

Let's have some perspective please.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 08 Mar 2022 08:18

John wrote:Lot is made about NLAW and Javelin but these are apparently responsible for good chunk of kills. It completely remote so operator can fire and control the missile which is in diff location. It is not even top down attack missile but that’s doesn’t stop
It from taken out T-72 series turret in one hit.

https://twitter.com/michaelh992/status/ ... 88674?s=21

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skif_(ATGM)

NLAW is not a remote weapon. It's just like the various RPGs from Russia. It's's a sub kilometre ranged weapon.

It is a Bill 2 warhead mated to a predicted line of site body. An extremely simple concept. But deadly to tanks because of its massive over fly top attack warhead.

John · Post by **John** » 08 Mar 2022 08:32

Pratyush wrote:
NLAW is not a remote weapon. It's just like the various RPGs from Russia. It's's a sub kilometre ranged weapon.

It is a Bill 2 warhead mated to a predicted line of site body. An extremely simple concept. But deadly to tanks because of its massive over fly top attack warhead.

I didn’t say NLAW is a remote weapon I am talking about Skif missile.

srikandan · Post by **srikandan** » 08 Mar 2022 08:40

vera_k: If it comes to that, they'll take gold I bet. Or the digital rupee if it is backed by gold!

Very likely. Russia has increased its gold reserves by 33% since 2014, just so it can resume oil trade in gold-backed currency, it looks like.

https://dailyreckoning.com/wp-content/u ... serves.jpg

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 08 Mar 2022 09:21

Baikul wrote:
Deans wrote:
Iraq 2003-9
Afghanistan 2003-20

While the time period is long, there was negligible enemy activity. Sortie rate of RuAF over the past week would probably equal US sorties in a year in either Iraq or Afghanistan.
And hence my opinion that casualty rates of RuAF would be significantly higher because they’re in a more intense combat environment.

I think that to get a better sense of how significant and these losses are to the Russians, we would need to understand what percentage of Russian aircraft capacity is being attrited. More than raw numbers this would also tell us how long they can continue.

That's correct and I haven't seen this analysis for the RuAF,
In the 71 war. the IAF had 71 airframe losses (17 of these in accidents). That was in a 13 day period, roughly the same intensity of combat.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 08 Mar 2022 09:21

yensoy wrote:
anupmisra wrote: Hold the peace talks in Madras and call it Camp Dravid.
They will be greeted at the airport by Stalin himself

Ah Realpolitik.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 08 Mar 2022 09:24

yensoy wrote: They will be greeted at the airport by Stalin himself

True that.

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 08 Mar 2022 10:29

Ukraine is claiming that the chief of staff of the Russian 41st Combined Arms Army Major General Vitaly Gerasimov (a decorated Syrian and Chechen war vet) has been killed. Bellingcat the journalist /intel guys have confirmed it. Not confirmed by the Russian side

[url]htpps://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/08/v ... try-claims[/url]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitaly_Gerasimov

If true then this is the second general from the 41st Army to die inside of a week, after deputy commander, Major General Andrei Sukhovetsky.

Increased op tempo and pressure on Russian officers, Western intelligence able to geo locate higher ranks, or Russian officers taking lead from the front leading to more casualties. Reason could be one or all of those.

It’s unknown if Vitaly Gerasimov has any connection to Valery Gerasimov who is the Chief of General Staff of the entire Russian army.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 08 Mar 2022 10:45

Vayutuvan wrote:
John wrote:Calm down I will edit the posts couple addl pixels is not the end of world.
Hmm. Why don't you calm down mian?!!! You go first. You don't likey? If not, why not?

Vayutuvan, hope you exhibit better self control when you come back in a month

kvraghav · Post by **kvraghav** » 08 Mar 2022 11:25

hnair wrote:
Vayutuvan wrote:
Hmm. Why don't you calm down mian?!!! You go first. You don't likey? If not, why not?
Vayutuvan, hope you exhibit better self control when you come back in a month

I have been a simple observer for all these years in BRF and may be we need to report this admin for being one sided. My BR days comes to an end after 16 long years. Good Luck all.
Free speech on BRF, twitter style.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 08 Mar 2022 12:15

Deans wrote:There is no word of Ukrainian losses. Notwithstanding what NATO is saying, Ukr losses cannot be replaced.

+1. Main stream media India are sounding more like a Ukraine Fans Club most likely after getting instructions from US and money also hitting their accounts. There is no mention of any thing on losses at Ukraine side, other than the sob stories of the 'Indian students'. After following Indian main stream media and their reports; I now tend to accept exactly the opposite of what they report. Either Russia is not giving out any information and going on with their Plan A,B & C, or other players are blocking Russia from sharing their information.

kit · Post by **kit** » 08 Mar 2022 13:07

eklavya wrote:https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... mbergdaily

“No matter how precarious and challenging the international situation may be, China and Russia will maintain a strategic focus and steadily advance our comprehensive strategic partnership and coordination,” he said.
Russia heading the way of Pakistan and N Korea.

would a swan become a crow if painted black ?

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 08 Mar 2022 14:59

yensoy wrote:
kit wrote:https://www.newsbharati.com/Encyc/2022/ ... ports.html
Amid all this there are reports that India might get a discounted oil directly from Russia if India chooses to trade with Russian companies. Some sources are suggesting the discount could be as high as 27%.
The billion dollar question is this... how do we pay them? It is best that we returned to the old barter system, but what can we supply to secure oil and military equipment from them? Food products (tea, spices), clothing, pharmaceuticals, engineering goods, building material. It has to be carefully staged as a "humanitarian" deal, emphasizing on fertilizer imports into India to ensure we don't have a famine rather than talking about S-400s.

IIRC India would deposit the money in INR into an Indian account and let Russia use it to pay for its imports from India. Not sure if they can take it out in USD - but they are not accumulating USD now, so that should work. India can step up exports like FMCGs, textiles, food items, semi-finished steel, aluminium etc and some machinery.

The problem to deal with is the risk of US sanctions using CAATSA etc.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 08 Mar 2022 15:24

Why are the US and its Anglo allies so pissed at the Russian military campaign to de-Nazify Ukraine?

■ Russia has 6,400 nuclear warheads so you can't bomb it

■ Russia can turn the US into a wasteland in 1 hour

■ US wanted Ukraine to become Russia's Pakistan, but got checkmated

https://twitter.com/ByRakeshSimha/statu ... rfmXA&s=19

kit · Post by **kit** » 08 Mar 2022 16:28

yensoy wrote:
kit wrote:https://www.newsbharati.com/Encyc/2022/ ... ports.html
Amid all this there are reports that India might get a discounted oil directly from Russia if India chooses to trade with Russian companies. Some sources are suggesting the discount could be as high as 27%.
The billion dollar question is this... how do we pay them? It is best that we returned to the old barter system, but what can we supply to secure oil and military equipment from them? Food products (tea, spices), clothing, pharmaceuticals, engineering goods, building material. It has to be carefully staged as a "humanitarian" deal, emphasizing on fertilizer imports into India to ensure we don't have a famine rather than talking about S-400s.

barter system could work and bypass the sanctions., oil , weapons and fertiliser for consumer goods, electronics., in a way replace other sources., it will be interesting to see how China does this., maybe we can use their SWIFT alternative for Russian trade

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 08 Mar 2022 16:51

There is another objective Putin could be pursuing to prevent "Ukraine is new Pakistan". Getting control of its nuclear installations, to prevent any misuse of fissile material, enrichment and reactor tech.

Ukraine has 15 working N reactors, 2 under construction and 4 shutdown besides whatever is still there in Tchernobyl - the last already under Russian control. Check out :
https://world-nuclear.org/information-l ... raine.aspx
and
https://world-nuclear.org/information-l ... ear-p.aspx
An interesting tidbit from the link above:

24 February
Ukraine disconnected its grid from Belarus and Russia, and requested emergency synchronization to the European power grid. It is currently operating in 'island mode', which means that it is not connected to the grid of any neighbouring countries.
Ukraine had been testing this mode of operation at the beginning of February 2022.

Russian lines of thrust

The biggest site is Zaporizhzhia with 6 reactors now under Russian control. The others are further West,
- 3 reactors in South Ukraine NPP : closest to current Russian offensive near Odessa - doable
- 2 reactors in Khmelnitski : 360 km south west of Kyiv
- 4 reactors in Rivne : 340 km west of Kyiv approaching the western border with Poland - the last two are not easy to capture unless Kyiv falls and Russia takes control of the govt. They may still face rebel insurgents.

Why could Putin be doing this ?
There have been talks of creating N weapons, at least dirty bombs by sections of Ukrainian polity, some of the right wing / Natzi types Putin is after. If they go down that path, proliferation is the next step. May be the West sees Putin doing their dirty work for them and all the world, so they're not directly intervening or creating a no fly zone in Ukraine right now despite all the clamour of sanctions.

srin · Post by **srin** » 08 Mar 2022 17:10

So, the media coverage has all been on Russian military non-successes (can't yet call them failures). Understandable since this is a pro-West bias of the media. However, I haven't read anything on the UKR counter-attacks.
I mean, if the Russians haven't established air superiority, their tanks have been supposedly destroyed in possibly hundreds, thousands of troops are dead, the 200K (per wiki) strong UKR should launch some counterattack somewhere and destroy the Russians, no ? Given the same pro-West bias, the media would be tom-tomming all over the air.
So, where are their tanks ? Where is their artillery ? In short, WTH is it doing ?

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 08 Mar 2022 17:30

I have wondered about the same.

This is what I would do:
A. At least 10% of Ukrainian forces guarding Kyiv.
B. 30% deployed as mobile units that are trying to sneak behind the Russian frontline forces to attack supply lines.
C. 50% guarding cities by fighting back from urban areas, perhaps focused on key cities in the east & south like Kharkiv, Mariupol, Odessa etc.
D. 10% West of Kyiv protecting N plants and supply routes from EU .

I think we are seeing footages from mostly from B & little from C.

Many destroyed tanks a RVs we are seeing could be those already abandoned by RA due to mechanical/refuelling issues or bogging down in muddy terrain and not actually lost in head on combat.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 08 Mar 2022 18:51

kvraghav wrote:
hnair wrote:
Vayutuvan, hope you exhibit better self control when you come back in a month
I have been a simple observer for all these years in BRF and may be we need to report this admin for being one sided. My BR days comes to an end after 16 long years. Good Luck all.
Free speech on BRF, twitter style.

Sure. Please do report the said admin in the correct thread - Forum Feedback. Not here

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 08 Mar 2022 18:56

To the extent that one can perceive from various media sources - western mostly admittedly - it seems that the Ukrainian population is firmly against Russia. Demonstrations in occupied cities, interviews with mango man, etc all attest to this.

On the other hand neither has the Russian population turned against Putin. On the contrary by and large Russians still seem to stand behind Putin. The videos of Russian citizens protestors don’t signify much.

Even if Russia wins militarily, they will face stiff resistance in Ukraine for a long time. I doubt whether the Russian high command will try and place an occupied army, because that will make it so much worse. On the other hand Putin isn’t going away in the short term either , unless someone in his inner council decides an accident is needed, or he actually loses this war.

John · Post by **John** » 08 Mar 2022 19:06

Many destroyed tanks a RVs we are seeing could be those already abandoned by RA due to mechanical/refuelling issues or bogging down in muddy terrain and not actually lost in head on combat.

As per this site about 40/60 split between destroyed and abandoned/captured. Keep in mind it doesn’t include any undocumented equipment (up north of Kyiv)

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/a ... t.html?m=1

Russia - 910, of which: destroyed: 363, damaged: 13, abandoned: 150, captured: 382

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 08 Mar 2022 19:15

John wrote:
Many destroyed tanks a RVs we are seeing could be those already abandoned by RA due to mechanical/refuelling issues or bogging down in muddy terrain and not actually lost in head on combat.
As per this site about 40/60 split between destroyed and abandoned/captured. Keep in mind it doesn’t include any undocumented equipment (up north of Kyiv)

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/a ... t.html?m=1

Russia - 910, of which: destroyed: 363, damaged: 13, abandoned: 150, captured: 382

I’ve been thinking of what this destroyed to abandoned, and destroyed to abandoned + captured ratio could mean. Especially the significance of abandoned vehicles.

But from the casual research I did I want able to find context or any baseline to compare (eg similar ratios in other battles).

Of course there are several causes attributed to these vehicles being abandoned - lack of fuel, spare parts, poor morale. Etc. But it significance or otherwise may take some time to decipher.

KL Dubey · Post by **KL Dubey** » 08 Mar 2022 19:23

Pakraine has a fundamental geographic weakness. It is entirely split down the middle by a large river. And Russia controls the eastern coast as well. There are some marshy areas up in the north near the border with Belarus and in the south at the river delta, but those are surely "no-go" zones.

IOW, there is no way to provide bulk supplies to the eastern side from the west, other than through the bridges and large river docks. I just counted: there are fewer than 40 bridges along the entire 500 mile length of the Dnieper. Might be a few tunnels as well.

So, it seems to me just a matter of time that the entire eastern part (including east Kiev) will fall to the Russians as long as they control (or blow up) the bridges or the roadways coming through the bridges. The east Pakrainians will just run out of everything.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 08 Mar 2022 19:27

Ukraine claims Russian casualties are at 11000 which is being reported without zero cross checking by media.

Ukraine has a very savvy media presence going no doubt helped by the West in information warfare.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 08 Mar 2022 20:01

Before you get glued to Exit Polls on Various Channels....

Please don't forget to read this BBBIIIIGGG Update.

Russia claims Ukraine is destroying evidence of US-funded BIOWEAPONS programme.

(1/5)

As Russian troops entered Ukraine, the government in Kiev ordered the “emergency destruction” of pathogens including plague and anthrax at US-funded laboratories near the Russian border, the Ministry of Defense in Moscow claimed on Sunday.

(2/5)

Earlier rumors that the Russian military was targeting US-run biolabs were written off as conspiracy theories, but the ministry has promised to back up its claims with documents.

(3/5)

“We have received documentation from employees of Ukrainian biolaboratories on the emergency destruction on February 24 of especially dangerous pathogens of plague, anthrax, tularemia, cholera and other deadly diseases,” read a statement from the ministry.

(4/5)

So..is finally World is nearing to know Actual Birthplace of Chinese Virus?

Yes..it's SAID to be US Funded Biolabs in Ukraine from where it was Transferred to Wuhan Lab in China.

And..Funding to Ukraine Labs & Wuhan Lab was done by None Other Than...BARRACK OBAMA in 2014

(5/5)
___________________

https://twitter.com/MumbaichaDon/status ... Vvb3A&s=19

kit · Post by **kit** » 08 Mar 2022 20:09

Manish_Sharma wrote:Before you get glued to Exit Polls on Various Channels....

Please don't forget to read this BBBIIIIGGG Update.

Russia claims Ukraine is destroying evidence of US-funded BIOWEAPONS programme.

kit · Post by **kit** » 08 Mar 2022 20:26

Manish_Sharma wrote:Before you get glued to Exit Polls on Various Channels....

Please don't forget to read this BBBIIIIGGG Update.

Russia claims Ukraine is destroying evidence of US-funded BIOWEAPONS programme.

Russians following it up with documentation !!!

https://twitter.com/ClintEhrlich/status ... 76/photo/2

kit · Post by **kit** » 08 Mar 2022 20:31

https://twitter.com/dgaytandzhieva/stat ... 8278991873

The US Embassy in #Ukraine has just deleted from its website all documents about 11 Pentagon-funded biolaboratories in Ukraine. I have published all these documents (now deleted by the Embassy) here

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 08 Mar 2022 20:32

^Thanks kit ji!

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 08 Mar 2022 20:39

Tanaji wrote:Ukraine claims Russian casualties are at 11000 which is being reported without zero cross checking by media.

Ukraine has a very savvy media presence going no doubt helped by the West in information warfare.

By this rate even the Red Army would have been wiped out in a couple of months

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 08 Mar 2022 21:22

Oil hits $130 as Biden administration mulls banning Russian oil and gas exports to the US. Lets brace ourselves, the world is about to get a lot more rockier in the days and weeks to come !

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 08 Mar 2022 21:42

Massive missile strikes and shelling on Sumy soon after 20 odd buses left the city carrying evacuees including hopefully all Indians who were stuck there.

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 08 Mar 2022 22:11

Twist on an earlier story

https://www.thehindu.com/news/internati ... 8.ece/amp/

The article suggests many Indians, which if true would be new, buy the guy mentioned in the story was in the news a few days ago.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 08 Mar 2022 22:22

Biden just announced US will no longer buy Russian oil. Wants Americans and the world to bear the cost of Putin's war.
EU is also going to wean off Russian gas and oil, they can get through the fag end of this winter by dipping into their reserves, next winter will be a problem. Gas was trading at 17$ two years ago, it's over 200 now after hitting as high as 325 !!

China will benefit by buying Russian gas which will now trade at a discount, India may also do the same.

John · Post by **John** » 08 Mar 2022 22:36

One of Ukr S-300s launcher has been taken out. They say it’s Russian but I believe it’s Ukranian.

https://twitter.com/poppoppopkt/status/ ... 38214?s=21

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 08 Mar 2022 22:42

Cyrano wrote:Biden just announced US will no longer buy Russian oil. Wants Americans and the world to bear the cost of Putin's war.
EU is also going to wean off Russian gas and oil, they can get through the fag end of this winter by dipping into their reserves, next winter will be a problem. Gas was trading at 17$ two years ago, it's over 200 now after hitting as high as 325 !!

China will benefit by buying Russian gas which will now trade at a discount, India may also do the same.

I was reading somewhere that Russia accounts for barely 7-8 percent of US oil imports and does not import gas from
Russia. Therefor it’s easier for Biden to to this as compared to Europe where the figures are so much higher, between 30-75 percent (Poland and Finland).

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 08 Mar 2022 22:45

John wrote:One of Ukr S-300s launcher has been taken out. They say it’s Russian but I believe it’s Ukranian.

https://twitter.com/poppoppopkt/status/ ... 38214?s=21

Multiple online sources have already said it’s Ukrainian based on the pixel camouflage pattern.