Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

ManuJ · Post by **ManuJ** » 09 Mar 2022 02:07

Prasad wrote:Why are you guys surprised? That thing could hit a small window-sized triangle right from the very early trials. Frightening accuracy.

The difference is that this is hitting the target in top-attack mode in hilly terrain.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 09 Mar 2022 09:23

Steep dive mode: 70+ degree angle. We need that kind of accuracy while hitting reverse mountain slopes, where even a 10 meter miss can mean an ineffective strike

The missile also has far less time to acquire and guide itself to its target. Might need to do a quick pop-up to acquire, re-orient and guide itself. Remarkable performance across all these parameters at Mach 2.9!

sudhan · Post by **sudhan** » 09 Mar 2022 20:56

nachiket wrote:
sudhan wrote:AFAIK, India ordered the Long range variant of R27 with active seeker (EA / EM Variants) and IR seekers (post Balakote), this was, if I remember correctly to paper over the ramp up of Astra Mk1 production.
That was the speculation here since nobody could figure out why the IAF would R-27's in this day and age if that wasn't the case. But is there an actual source that mentions that the order definitely was for the active variant?

There was a press Handout from TASS in 2019 indicatingthat India wants to arm its Su30s with longer range R27, not able to find it now. All Russian sites are blocked in my country of residence.

Afaik, around 2010, Russia upgunned its R27 with a heavier motor with longer burn time and more powerful active seeker, adapted by agat from r77. It's range was higher than R77. Made sense for India to choose this till astra Mk2 came to active production. Basically all longer range R27s are most likely the EA/EM variant.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 10 Mar 2022 00:40

sudhan wrote: Afaik, around 2010, Russia upgunned its R27 with a heavier motor with longer burn time and more powerful active seeker, adapted by agat from r77. It's range was higher than R77. Made sense for India to choose this till astra Mk2 came to active production. Basically all longer range R27s are most likely the EA/EM variant.

Yes it makes sense to choose the active version but we don't definitively know that's what we bought. Also there is little information on the internet about whether the R-27EA even went into service with the RuAF itself, just that it received IOC in 2010.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 10 Mar 2022 02:06

sudhan wrote:
nachiket wrote: That was the speculation here since nobody could figure out why the IAF would R-27's in this day and age if that wasn't the case. But is there an actual source that mentions that the order definitely was for the active variant?
There was a press Handout from TASS in 2019 indicatingthat India wants to arm its Su30s with longer range R27, not able to find it now. All Russian sites are blocked in my country of residence.

Afaik, around 2010, Russia upgunned its R27 with a heavier motor with longer burn time and more powerful active seeker, adapted by agat from r77. It's range was higher than R77. Made sense for India to choose this till astra Mk2 came to active production. Basically all longer range R27s are most likely the EA/EM variant.

There is no evidence an EA ever went into service, let alone ordered by India.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 10 Mar 2022 07:53

Just like the mythical Novator KS 172.

Anoop · Post by **Anoop** » 10 Mar 2022 09:05

Looking at the Brahmos dive angle, can't help thinking of the Pakistani Bde at Khapalu. It's protection comes from its steep mountain cover on nearly 3 sides as you can see on Google Earth. It may not be safe anymore! It's far away from civilian population, so use of such high caliber weapons in wartime here doesn't carry the same risk of collateral damage as even in Skardu. And the strategic benefits of such an action is quite obvious.

Y I Patel · Post by **Y I Patel** » 10 Mar 2022 23:48

Good catch on the dive angle, Anoop. They must be super confident of the capability to have positioned the cameras to capture that moment

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 10 Mar 2022 23:59

Brahmos was declared to be able to do S maneuver some 5 years ago. Official statement.

Anoop · Post by **Anoop** » 11 Mar 2022 01:50

Y I Patel wrote:Good catch on the dive angle, Anoop. They must be super confident of the capability to have positioned the cameras to capture that moment

Also YIP, when ACM Dhanoa had stated that they were prepared to "wipe out Pakistani forward brigades" post Balakote, if need be, I can't help wonder if this was a candidate.

If that is removed for good i.e. no more Pakistani access to Saltoro via Goma, our own deployment on the Siachen glacier itself can be substantially thinned.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 11 Mar 2022 03:16

Anoop wrote:Looking at the Brahmos dive angle, can't help thinking of the Pakistani Bde at Khapalu. It's protection comes from its steep mountain cover on nearly 3 sides as you can see on Google Earth. It may not be safe anymore! It's far away from civilian population, so use of such high caliber weapons in wartime here doesn't carry the same risk of collateral damage as even in Skardu. And the strategic benefits of such an action is quite obvious.

i am thinking more where a flat top could be rendered useless from a top attack

Anoop · Post by **Anoop** » 11 Mar 2022 04:50

ArjunPandit wrote:i am thinking more where a flat top could be rendered useless from a top attack

To justify the use of an expensive and destructive missile, as opposed to tube artillery or even MBRLs, it must be a high value target. Those are usually protected by concealment, reinforcement, mobility or air defence assets. An exposed, immobile HVT on a flat top is not easy to find.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 11 Mar 2022 15:47

i meant taking donw a flat top..with brahmos speed and 300 kg it can easily achieve mission kill if not ship kill

Anoop · Post by **Anoop** » 11 Mar 2022 17:10

Oh sorry, I misunderstood. Of course, it's original role was anti-shipping. It's since evolved into many different modes.

Tamang · Post by **Tamang** » 11 Mar 2022 18:42

MoD just stated that it was indeed our missile which was accidentally fired and landed in Pakistan. How on earth did it happen.

basant · Post by **basant** » 11 Mar 2022 18:56

Tamang wrote:MoD just stated that it was indeed our missile which was accidentally fired and landed in Pakistan. How on earth did it happen.

Twitter of Siddhant Sibal

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 11 Mar 2022 18:57

Tamang wrote:MoD just stated that it was indeed our missile which was accidentally fired and landed in Pakistan. How on earth did it happen.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ANI/status/1 ... 8636839937

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 11 Mar 2022 19:07

This is stupidity now we have to pay compensation

LakshmanPST · Post by **LakshmanPST** » 11 Mar 2022 19:15

Just wondering, how much technical details can Pakistan manage to collect from this incident...?
Though the missile seems to be destroyed, they can still get information about the metallurgy...
Can they get any information from intact sensors or circuit boards...?
And a noob pooch---> Will the flight path it has taken reveal some clues about typical trajectory the missile takes...? Or revelation of flight path isn't that big an issue...?

MeshaVishwas · Post by **MeshaVishwas** » 11 Mar 2022 19:25

Yes just a "technical glitch"

Airspace at the alleged launch time - the path roughly plotted appears to fly through a restricted zone controlled by Bhatinda (#India) ATC with a few air routes in its path on the #Pakistan side (all estimates, nothing exhaustive)

From Mr.Damien Symon

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 11 Mar 2022 19:27

LakshmanPST wrote:Just wondering, how much technical details can Pakistan manage to collect from this incident...?
Though the missile seems to be destroyed, they can still get information about the metallurgy...
Can they get any information from intact sensors or circuit boards...?
And a noob pooch---> Will the flight path it has taken reveal some clues about typical trajectory the missile takes...? Or revelation of flight path isn't that big an issue...?

Perhaps the TSP could collect some information about the intact circut boards.

Metallurgy is not really so special. PRC would have figured it out. Because India is not the only nation Russians shared the PJ 10 tech with.

The flight path is not going to help with anything.

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 11 Mar 2022 19:32

* Deleted upon user request *

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 11 Mar 2022 19:33

Lizard has CJ-10 already!

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 11 Mar 2022 19:36

Why on earth did MoD admit it ? No one was taking pakis seriously anyways.

srin · Post by **srin** » 11 Mar 2022 19:41

AdityaM wrote:So the first export of Brahmos happened to be to Pakistan. Crazy!
They could so easily have escalated this based on this misunderstanding.

Hope this doesn't jeopardise missile sale to Philippines amongst other things.

Has it been confirmed that it was Brahmos ?

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 11 Mar 2022 19:54

Holes at base of crashed one match with 2 rivers

SidSoma · Post by **SidSoma** » 11 Mar 2022 19:54

Ambar wrote:Why on earth did MoD admit it ? No one was taking pakis seriously anyways.

Gandhigiri....

Question: How was the missile flight path tracked? They have tracked it from well inside India.

LakshmanPST · Post by **LakshmanPST** » 11 Mar 2022 19:58

Pak is claiming that the missile was flying at 40000 feet at Mach 3 speed...
But AFAIK, cruise missiles won't fly at that level... And they certainly can not be tracked 100km inside Indian territory when flying low...

My guess is, Pakistan is lieing about tracking the missile at 40000 feet...
In all probability, it went completely undetected...

Pak is making up this tracking story only because they're sure Indians won't reveal the details of actual flight path publicly anyway...

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 11 Mar 2022 20:08

This calls for very serious investigation by the Army & MoD now that GoI has accepted that it was a mistake. Such laxity cannot be allowed.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 11 Mar 2022 20:10

SidSoma wrote:
Ambar wrote:Why on earth did MoD admit it ? No one was taking pakis seriously anyways.
Gandhigiri....

Question: How was the missile flight path tracked? They have tracked it from well inside India.

assuming what they are saying is true

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 11 Mar 2022 20:11

SSridhar wrote:This calls for very serious investigation by the Army & MoD now that GoI has accepted that it was a mistake. Such laxity cannot be allowed.

assuming it is not an alibi

srin · Post by **srin** » 11 Mar 2022 20:13

Print saying it was Brahmos

Although the defence ministry did not clarify which missile it was, sources in the defence and security establishment said it was the BrahMos supersonic cruise missile.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 11 Mar 2022 20:19

ArjunPandit wrote:
SSridhar wrote:This calls for very serious investigation by the Army & MoD now that GoI has accepted that it was a mistake. Such laxity cannot be allowed.
assuming it is not an alibi

What alibi?

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 11 Mar 2022 20:22

i meant it could be intentional ..missiles have auto destruct features..remember nirbhay was destroyed once after it deviated significantly was 3rd of 4th launch. Missiles can't be launched just like that individually..either intentional or freakish hacking

arvin · Post by **arvin** » 11 Mar 2022 20:23

Such kind of 'technical glitch'

avoiding all civilian damage. And it was a pure kinetic impact going by crater size.
The style looks like some one is mighty Pissed off by imran.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 11 Mar 2022 20:26

So, why do you think that we did this intentionally now? Operational missiles do not have auto-destruct features.

Chinmay · Post by **Chinmay** » 11 Mar 2022 20:32

Something doesnt look right. It took 24 hrs for the Pakis to declare a launch, and more for us to issue a statement. If it was a technical malfunction, a statement should have been released immediately. Also, no warhead on Brahmos? I thought they were all canisterized with a warhead. Why do you have inert rounds ready to launch?

Seeing Pakis brown their pants is all very funny, but it also invites them to go off half cocked next time with the same excuse

arvin · Post by **arvin** » 11 Mar 2022 20:33

I may be wrong, but the crater formed doesnt seem like formed from auto destruct. Auto destruct in air will result in debris all over . The tail is also lying near the crater.

shravanp · Post by **shravanp** » 11 Mar 2022 20:37

My concern is different. Are there any chance of Pakistan exploiting Brahmos features? I know it crashed/burned...but even then scraps too have some value after all.

shaunb · Post by **shaunb** » 11 Mar 2022 20:40

That so called PIB statement doesn't look authentic.

"PIB (Defence Wing)" what is that?

"Har kaam desh ke naam" the "ke naam" part is gramatically incorrect.

This is the link to the actual statement from PIB site - https://www.pib.gov.in/PressReleasePage ... ID=1805148