Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

[kit]

Looks increasingly likely that Zelinsky would be bumped off by the Company., ensuring direct blame on the Wagner group. He would be replaced by an ultraconservative backed by the Neonazi groups.

Zsky s profile is increasingly boosted for this purpose.. what better than a martyr to make things worse

[GShankar]

Looks increasingly likely that Zelinsky would be bumped off by the Company., ensuring direct blame on the Wagner group. He would be replaced by an ultraconservative backed by the Neonazi groups.

Zsky s profile is increasingly boosted for this purpose.. what better than a martyr to make things worse

Just like in... hollywood

Give a good scene and kill off a character so the movie goes into climax. In this case the climax would be long drawn out. If zelle is bumped, then russia is well placed to bring back the old friend - yanukovich?

And the internal civil war will be waged between nazis and ukie gobermint.

[skumar]

Re-posting a link I clicked from BRF, can't seem to find the post. Credit to the original post.

A long session shedding light on many issues in Ukraine. Scott Ritter comes in around 58:00, if you want to skip. Probably my confirmation bias - can't disagree with much about what I knew and most things I did not know about.

[dnivas]

Good rebuttal by female world powerlifter Marina to Arnold after his pathetic speech
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saSAP0UUnyU

[skumar]

...............

...............
All these talks of a 3/4 day blitzkrieg are figments of imaginative propoganda. It is possible that the resistance was underestimated. Iraq was a one sided war with heavy bombing from Day 1 and took 3 weeks.

It would not be a Pyrrhic victory either if Russia meet her goals - no NATO even in dreams for Ukraine, cleaving of eastern territories with Russian majority and recognition of Crimea.
........

Maybe not 3/4 days I'll grant you that. I was too hasty to write there. But I stand by my opinion, that the Russians expected a repeat of Crimea when they basically walked into the place in quick time. Their end run sending paras to capture Kyiv airport, followed by an armoured charge to the capital, limited RuAF presence, apparently not telling their own troops what was happening, are all indicators of an expected capitulation.

They're serious now, and I believe that they will raze Ukraine cities to the ground if they have to, with all the firepower that they were earlier seemingly reluctant to commit. It's a war of attrition now.

On Russians meeting their goals- what were their goals? because we enter opinions and propaganda on both sides. There are counter arguments that Putin initially wanted many things he has backed off on- utter domination of the entire nation, total regime change in Ukraine and significant demilitarisation being three. Others would argue that their goals were more limited. So I won't go there. Probably both sides want a situation where they can declare victory and end it.
...............

Please take a look at the Scott Ritter video.
There are multiple ways to interpret the circumstances that have unfolded. The Russian war plan would not be one sequential set of actions - it would have had many scenarios and they started with the happy path scenario. I believe a. they did not expect the resistance they got and b. they wanted to avoid civilian casualties. They have probably progressed to Scenario 9F by now.

You mentioned 3 goals above that Putin has backed off on -
1. utter domination of the entire nation - would an agreement by force not be utter domination?
2. total regime change in Ukraine - Russia is beginning to see the value of pawns like Zelenskyy who is under threat in Ukraine from the Nazis (as Ritter says, no one else has to call them Nazis since they call themselves as Nazis). They are probably holding Zelenskyy at gun point threatening to blow off his head if he capitulates.
3. significant demilitarisation - do you think this war will end without Russia defanging Ukraine as they see it? The Azov battalions will be disbanded from whatever Ukrainian army that is allowed to exist, no NATO presence even in "bio-labs" etc.

[kit]

[
You mentioned 3 goals above that Putin has backed off on -
1. utter domination of the entire nation - would an agreement by force not be utter domination?
2. total regime change in Ukraine - Russia is beginning to see the value of pawns like Zelenskyy who is under threat in Ukraine from the Nazis (as Ritter says, no one else has to call them Nazis since they call themselves as Nazis). They are probably holding Zelenskyy at gun point threatening to blow off his head if he capitulates.
3. significant demilitarisation - do you think this war will end without Russia defanging Ukraine as they see it? The Azov battalions will be disbanded from whatever Ukrainian army that is allowed to exist, no NATO presence even in "bio-labs" etc.

why are we sure he does not have a double ?

[skumar]

[
You mentioned 3 goals above that Putin has backed off on -
1. utter domination of the entire nation - would an agreement by force not be utter domination?
2. total regime change in Ukraine - Russia is beginning to see the value of pawns like Zelenskyy who is under threat in Ukraine from the Nazis (as Ritter says, no one else has to call them Nazis since they call themselves as Nazis). They are probably holding Zelenskyy at gun point threatening to blow off his head if he capitulates.
3. significant demilitarisation - do you think this war will end without Russia defanging Ukraine as they see it? The Azov battalions will be disbanded from whatever Ukrainian army that is allowed to exist, no NATO presence even in "bio-labs" etc.

why are we sure he does not have a double ?

He may well have but it will show since the double has to act like an actor.

[IndraD]

In fallen city, Paestinian model at display.
Kherson: people pour out into city centre run towards Russian army trucks who eventually retreat.
No idea what is the endgame and how long can Russia army keep this violence in check. https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/03/21 ... th-gunfire

[kit]

[banrjeer]

[
You mentioned 3 goals above that Putin has backed off on -
1. utter domination of the entire nation - would an agreement by force not be utter domination?
2. total regime change in Ukraine - Russia is beginning to see the value of pawns like Zelenskyy who is under threat in Ukraine from the Nazis (as Ritter says, no one else has to call them Nazis since they call themselves as Nazis). They are probably holding Zelenskyy at gun point threatening to blow off his head if he capitulates.
3. significant demilitarisation - do you think this war will end without Russia defanging Ukraine as they see it? The Azov battalions will be disbanded from whatever Ukrainian army that is allowed to exist, no NATO presence even in "bio-labs" etc.

why are we sure he does not have a double ?

How do we know he is in where he claims he is. Judging by his lionization , he might be under western security. Azov army was not very pro Zelensky but they are now since Zelensky is the goto link for western weapons.

[banrjeer]

Bharat has to do steadfast pillow

[eklavya]

The Economist:

https://www.economist.com/europe/2022/0 ... n-mariupol

Hundreds of thousands face catastrophe in Mariupol
They need more from the West, and quickly

Mar 21st 2022

THE DEAD are logged in a handwritten scrawl, each line a tragedy. “21 Park Street, two corpses, man and woman; Central Market, two corpses, one on the road, another in car; 101 Builders Avenue, one corpse, found under a blanket.” There are no names, no next of kin, just lines, and thousands of them. From March 12th the entries become infrequent and chaotic, not because there are fewer new deaths, but because counting them is impossible. The authorities say they have already certified 4,000 dead. A deputy mayor believes the current figure could be 20,000, or more. In truth, no one knows. But clearly it is already a very large number.

Mariupol, a city of 350,000, was surrounded by Russian forces in late February, and has since been subjected to a savage assault. The Russians targeted the essentials from the start: disabling the power supply, heating, water, communications and, later, the emergency services. From March 10th they began bombing from the air, hitting hospitals and bomb shelters among other civilian infrastructure. On March 16th, a particularly black day, Russian missiles fell on a swimming pool, a cinema, and a theatre known to be sheltering 1,300 people underground. The word “children”, written in large letters on the pavement outside, did nothing to prevent the attack. On March 20th another Russian bomb hit a school on the eastern side of the city, where 400 people were reportedly sheltering. Later that day, Russia issued an ultimatum to surrender Mariupol by 5am the following morning, which many interpreted as a warning of worse crimes to come. The Ukrainian government refused.

Eyewitnesses say a watershed was reached around March 15th, when Russian airstrikes intensified from a couple of bombs a day to more than 50. Each impact was terrifying, says Irina Perederey, a 30-year old council worker who was lucky to escape the city that day: “The shock waves made you convinced your house is about to collapse.” Oleksandr Horbachenko, an ambulance-service welder, says that things got progressively bleaker as the days wore on. By the time the 32-year-old left on March 18th, Mariupol was in a state of collapse, with no municipal services, no potable water, and starvation a growing threat for those trapped in the city. The last working supermarket closed its doors on around March 13th, after a missile fell through the roof, killing some of the customers. At least 80% of the city’s buildings are bombed out and uninhabitable, he says. “The whole of the centre is in ruins, with wires and glass everywhere. The worst thing is seeing the corpses strewn across the street. There are hundreds of them rotting away near the central market.”

The Economist understands that one hospital remains operational, despite an air strike that demolished its roof and top floors, killing patients and doctors in the process. The operating theatre, which was damaged in the blast, has been moved to the ground floor, where it is marginally more protected. But carpet-bombing across the city, not to mention a curfew, means it is hard to get the injured there. Even when they make it, it is difficult to find beds. One doctor said that diesel for the generator is a constant worry. The Ukrainian army has been providing it so far, but supplies are running low.

People want to leave, but getting out is risky. Talks have failed to produce a recognised humanitarian corridor out of Mariupol, such as now exists in around nine other places. Those who are mobile are taking matters into their own hands, leaving any way they can, often under artillery fire. But the fighting is intensifying, and that is making the already dangerous escape routes even more deadly. Part of the city is already in danger of falling. Andriy Biletsky, the founder of Azov regiment, a paramilitary outfit defending Mariupol alongside elite Ukrainian navy seals from the 36th Marine Brigade, confirmed that street-to-street fighting is under way in the east of the city. Elsewhere, defences are holding, he insisted. But the prospects do not look good: Ukrainian forces in Mariupol are vastly outnumbered, with 3,500 soldiers facing 14,000 invaders, around a tenth of the total estimated Russian force in the country.

The government in the capital appears to have ruled out the possibility of breaking the blockade by force. On March 19th Oleksiy Arestovych, a senior adviser to Ukraine's president, said the nearest available forces were more than 70 miles (110km) away and would have to traverse open terrain, completely exposed to Russian air attacks, to reach the city. “That leaves politics and diplomacy,” he said. Those in contact with people in Mariupol say that, however relief comes, it will have to come soon to be of any use. Serhiy Taruta, a local MP and the former governor of the Donetsk region, challenged the West to do more. He says that existing international pressure is nowhere near enough to stop Vladimir Putin’s “medieval” conduct. “Cut off Russian trade, finance, oil, and now, and perhaps he'll pause to think,” Mr Tartuta said. “Don’t do that, and you’ll have the blood of hundreds of thousands of Mariupol people on your hands.”

[vimal]

One news item says Russia is losing bigly another says they are pounding the Ukr bigly. Not sure which is truly

[skumar]

http://www.opindia.com/2022/03/israelis ... -holocaust

Zelenskyy should have avoided this address to the Knesset, his rona dhona not evoking the reaction he expected.

[sanjaykumar]

Yes it is difficult to know whom to believe.

Not the Russians for they have an obvious motive.
But here is the problem:

From the Economist above,

People want to leave, but getting out is risky. Talks have failed to produce a recognised humanitarian corridor out of Mariupol, such as now exists in around nine other places. Those who are mobile are taking matters into their own hands, leaving any way they can, often under artillery fire. But the fighting is intensifying, and that is making the already dangerous escape routes even more deadly. Part of the city is already in danger of falling. Andriy Biletsky, the founder of Azov regiment, a paramilitary outfit defending Mariupol alongside elite Ukrainian navy seals from the 36th Marine Brigade, confirmed that street-to-street fighting is under way in the east of the city. Elsewhere, defences are holding, he insisted. But the prospects do not look good: Ukrainian forces in Mariupol are vastly outnumbered, with 3,500 soldiers facing 14,000 invaders, around a tenth of the total estimated Russian force in the country.


If the Economist had qualified this reference to the Azmov regiment with their "alleged" Nazi nature, the Economist would have been credible.

One significant omission consigns this article to its place amongst all the other screeds, in the dustbin. Yes 90% of it may be factual, but prudence demands a sceptical approach. Ukrainians have a history of being Nazi friendly, why omit this bit of history? It would be appear the Israeli Knesset may have been thinking the same thing during Zelinsky's plea.

[KL Dubey]

One news item says Russia is losing bigly another says they are pounding the Ukr bigly. Not sure which is truly

Don't believe fake news. This Pakranian SitAw map posted several weeks back by "Atmavik" tells the story fairly well. It has the daily history too...so one can see how this whole invasion has taken place from day 1.

https://liveuamap.com

As of now, Russia is in control of 80% of the Donetsk and Lugansk provinces. Separating these formally from Ukraine is one of Putin's goals.

Russia is in control of the entire Azov coast. Destroying the neo-nazis infesting this area (especially around Mariupol) is one of Putin's goals.

Apart from the coast, the Russians are in control of a large swath of territory in southern Pakraine. After capturing several towns along the river (including Kherson), they have now crossed the Dnieper and advanced almost 100 km into western Pakraine.

Encircling Mikolayev seems the next goal, after which Odessa will likely be hit with both a land and naval assault. There are a lot of military installations in the area which presumably Putin wants to neutralize.

Finally, the Russians now control the canal that brings water from the Dnieper to Crimea (see blue line on the map). The Pakrainians had earlier built a dam to block the water. I read last week that the Russians have destroyed the dam and water is now flowing. Creating security in Crimea is one of Putin's goals.

Gen Bakshi may be on the right track - the Russians are using south Pakraine as the entry point to encircle Kiev and Lvov while keeping most of the Pakrainians busy fighting in the north. They may annex most of southern Pakraine. I can't see how the Russians would hand back the southern territory post-war.

[KL Dubey]

Blast from the past: 1943, commies versus nazis at the Dnieper river: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Dnieper

It looks like one of major commie thrusts was to cut off nazi access to the coast.

[sanjaykumar]

Battle of the Dnieper: It’s remarkable how little we nonspecialists know of the Soviet defence against Nazism. We certainly know that in the year 1943 a certain wartime leader gave a great speech, or seventeen.

[Manish_P]

Battle of the Dnieper: It’s remarkable how little we nonspecialists know of the Soviet defence against Nazism. We certainly know that in the year 1943 a certain wartime leader gave a great speech, or seventeen.

Absolutely.. and there are big budget movies about Operation Market-Garden (a failure) with big stars like Robert Redford shown leading a valiant river crossing on small rowing boats.. but none of the Russians crossing the Dnieper on improvised rafts made of barrels and trees.

[vimal]

[banrjeer]

https://youtu.be/KpzUCSdxi7k

Says Russians don’t train enough for missions needed for establishing air superiority.

[Manish_Sharma]

https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/stat ... zwmnA&s=19

BREAKING: Spokesman for Germany's Chancellor says Germany cannot do without Russian oil

[vimal]

https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/stat ... zwmnA&s=19

BREAKING: Spokesman for Germany's Chancellor says Germany cannot do without Russian oil

Now what? Sanction the huns, arabs, mexico?

[eklavya]

https://euvsdisinfo.eu/category/ukraine-page/

https://euvsdisinfo.eu/why-does-putin-p ... eo-nazism/

WHY DOES PUTIN PORTRAY HIMSELF AS THE TAMER OF NEO-NAZISM?

Why does Putin portray himself as the tamer of neo-Nazism?

It is a schoolyard defence most of us know. If someone calls you a name you reply, “It takes one to know one” or “you are worse than me”. That is, accuse them of the very charge they made against you. This rhetorical tactic is a projection – a way to shift blame for their own destructive actions.

In his speech aired 24 February announcing the invasion of Ukraine (aka “special operation”), Putin dished out several whoppers of lies. He claimed that the “limited military operation” aimed to ensure the “defence of Donbas” and the “self-defence of Russia”, although Ukraine has never threatened anyone, let alone Russia. He claimed that the “operation” would involve “no occupation”, although Russian soldiers in Ukraine are now establishing just such an occupation in parts of the east and south. Putin outlined “holding elections for a new government”; any fair elections, however, would likely return an overwhelming majority deeply hostile to Russia, if only because Putin’s invasion overthrew a government that was democratically elected in 2019 with over 73 per cent of the vote.

On 16 March, Putin gave a long speech, throwing verbal attacks and wild allegations: the “Neo-Nazis” in Kyiv preparing chemical attack, biological weapons, anthrax, even soon to have nuclear weapons ready against Donbas and Russia. Needless to say, none of the allegations were backed up by a shade of evidence, as it is usually the case for the most insolent disinformation tropes.

Going Nazi…

One claim stood out both on 24th February and on 16 March, however. Putin promised that, following victory, his forces would carry out the “de-Nazification” of Ukraine. The implication was that the current government – headed by a Jewish President with three uncles who died in the Holocaust – is wholly or partly Nazi.

This is not the first time that the Kremlin has used the term “Nazi” to describe Ukrainian authorities. It is not even the fiftieth time. For years, Russian officials and state media outlets have used the term to smear and demonise Ukraine and its government. Just in the past few weeks and months, Russian outlets accused Ukraine of being fascist, claimed that “state terror” in Ukraine is comparable to the Nazi occupation, and alleged that “fascist forces” organised Ukraine’s 2014 Maidan Revolution.

“Nazi east, Nazi west, Nazi over the cuckoo’s nest”

Back in 2017, we examined the frequent accusations of who is a Nazi according to the Kremlin. There were many already back then. Russian state media and pro-Kremlin outlets have long labelled anyone deemed hostile to Russia or the geopolitical project of uniting the Russian-speaking world, or Russkiy Mir, a Nazi or Nazi sympathiser, in particular Poland and the Baltic states. Even Italy has not escaped Nazi-related terminology such as “Gestapo”. We could go on, and on, and on. Our database has more than 800 entries with “Nazi” as keyword.

What is different now?

Two elements: “Nazi” has now become dominant in state outlets. From being merely frequent and directed at selected countries – Ukraine, the Baltic states, Poland – it has now become a general obsession. According to RT, the entire Europe [EU] is generally like Nazis. Secondly, now it also dominates Putin’s vocabulary – together with other derogatory terms such as “nationalist drug addicts”, “puppets”, etc. In recent months, even Foreign Minister Lavrov could hardly utter a word about Ukraine without saying “Nazi”.

On 4 March, when the Russian parliament unanimously rubberstamped draconic laws curbing free speech and independent media, the “debate” was filled with the Nazi word. Ostensibly, the entire West is “Nazi” because of their support to Kyiv and for this support, 48 countries are now declared “unfriendly” towards Russia.

Motives

Such relentless lingo cannot have had the purpose of dividing Ukraine from within, or bringing foreign adversaries over to Putin’s side. In the face of such verbal assault – the rhetorical equivalent of exposing yourself on a crowded street – an opponent’s natural reaction is to close ranks against you before turning away in disgust.

Instead, Putin’s Nazi obsession likely has mostly conscious internal purposes. Like the schoolyard taunt mentioned above, Putin’s Nazi-baiting seeks to distract from the weaknesses of his own regime. It also attempts to unite a Russian domestic audience against a remorseless, demonic, and imaginary external enemy. Finally, it seeks to compel that domestic audience to fight – or, at least, not to object to the fight against – the conjured bogeyman.

The ideological basis and key identification marker for the modern Russian state is the victory over Nazism in 1945. During Putin’s rule, military parades have grown ever more pompous. Grassroots initiatives such as the “Immortal Regiment”, originally intended as an individual way to honour family member who fought in 1941-45, have been hijacked for all-purpose state shows to instil the right patriotic feelings in younger generations. Russian state TV now often broadcasts video trailers ahead of evening programmes featuring WW II veterans from the Leningrad siege, the defence of Moscow or similar historic events.

Now, this War – “de-Nazification”

Putin’s claim of wanting the “de-Nazification” of Ukraine, however, may have one external purpose: smearing all Ukrainian nationalists as Nazis. The Kremlin’s giant problem is that its invasion has energised Ukrainian national pride and resolve in a way that few other actions could have done.

If the Kremlin manages to win the ugliest of victories in Ukraine, “de-Nazification” within the country could be even uglier. Would anyone expressing Ukrainian pride need to be “de-Nazified”? One shudders to imagine.

“De-Nazification” is an Orwellian euphemism for a purge of elected officials and the administration of an independent country.

In a Stalinist-style action, the recent arrests and abductions of Ukrainian mayors in Russian-occupied cities illustrate how Kremlin puppets are installed. If in doubt about how Putin handles political opponents, one can look to Alexei Navalny. Or again, check his speech of 16 March to mobilise patriotic moral. Beside the “de-Nazification”, Putin also described domestic opposition as “traitors, against Russia; the West’s 5th column; dirty insects to be destroyed”.

The artificial, Nazi state

For years, Putin has made no secret of his conviction that Ukraine is an artificial state and the country belongs inside Russia – see his long article from July 2021. Putin insists his descriptions are true, they must be Nazis, like schoolyard bullies who insist that a weaker child somehow deserved to be beaten. His descriptions only makes sense in the realm of his truth, a version ideologically described by Kremlin philosopher Aleksander Dugin which only he and other radical Russian nationalists can believe.

This has nothing to do with facts. Far-right groups had a very limited presence during the 2014 Maidan protests and went on to obtain abysmal results in the 2014 presidential and parliamentary elections in Ukraine. During the 2019 election cycle, the far-right sustained an even more tremendous failure: no representation at all in the parliament.

When autocrats chase geopolitical ideals such as establishing Russian sovereignty over allegedly historical Russian territories, the yawning void that separates an ideal from reality can become a disaster. We see the results today: Russian bombardments of civilian targets across Ukraine.

The Cult of personality…

While Putin blame others for being Nazis, the cult of personality grows at home.

18 March marked the 8th year since the illegal annexation of Crimea. The celebrations in Moscow reached a new climax this year. On that day, Putin spoke at the Luzhniki stadium in Moscow, where full tribunes could see him standing by the slogan “For a world without Nazism”. Cynically, he was justifying war again with two most used words to justify the invasion on Ukraine: genocide and Nazism.

Approximately 100,000 people participated in the concert, many of them with banners and slogans: “For the President”, “For Russia” “For Crimea”, “For Donbas”. The “for” – “za” of course spelled with the Latin first letter “Z” to hail the war.

It is difficult not to see the cult of personality, too well known from former times of war.

[eklavya]

https://euvsdisinfo.eu/no-we-did-not-bo ... is-anyway/

“No, We Did Not Bomb the Hospital, and It Was a Nest of Nazis Anyway”

The shelling of Maternity Ward No. 3 in Mariupol is a war crime and took the life of innocent civilians, including children. Top Russian officials confirm the targeting of the facility, but claim it was a stronghold of “radicals”. They are lying.

One can profit from lying. One can tell much more dramatic and colourful stories if not limited to actual hum-drum facts. The disadvantage of lying, however, is that a false statement might and will be challenged against the facts. Another disadvantage is that the liar must remember their own lies correctly every time they lie.

The cynical lies about Mariupol

The attack on a maternity ward in besieged Mariupol illustrates the challenge of lying. 3 people were killed, according to the Ukrainian authorities and 1 following and her baby died of wounds. The facts are easily corroborated; the attack has been carefully documented with a large number of pictures from several sources – professional news photographers, social media updates and forensic investigators. Manuals for open source investigation of Russian troop movements are easily available; thousands take part and share the facts.

The Kremlin, obdurately lying about “not targeting civilians”, is attempting to lie about the attack, but faces both of the disadvantages of lying mentioned above. When Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov lies about “no attack taking place”, his lying is just naked and not even shrouded in the veil of credibility. He knows he is lying; he knows everyone knows he is lying. Lavrov’s job is to lie, and he performs poorly, just parroting talking points, handed to him by his masters:

We have heard an emotionally charged outcry over the so-called “atrocities” allegedly committed by the Russian armed forces. Three days ago, on 7 March, our delegation at the UN Security Council meeting provided facts to prove that this maternity hospital had been taken over by the far-right Azov battalion, who ordered all pregnant women, medical nurses and other personnel out of the building. You can draw your own conclusions about the manipulation of public opinion around the world.

The Kremlin’s media were quick to repeat Lavrov’s claims (Sputnik Serbia, Sputnik, RT DE, Veterans Today, Riafan, Tvzvevda).

The ever-green, manipulative narrative of the Azov Battalion

One key Kremlin lie about the war against Ukraine is about the country being controlled by Nazis. That very lie has been repeated hundreds of times during the last few years. Still not true.

The Kremlin regularly tries to “prove” the presence of Nazis in Ukraine, including at the highest levels of government, by using the narrative of the Azov Battalion, a unit of some 1,000 men. The unit was originally set up by nationalists in 2013, and donned some insignia with strong connections to Nazism. The Kremlin disinformation machine has inflated this battalion to enormous and absurdly overblown proportions: a fairly small army unit inflated to the size of an entire army. Extremism in Ukraine is a frequent topic for discussions, and the pluralistic society of Ukraine has instruments to handle the challenge of Nazism in the country. All manifestations of Nazism are banned in Ukraine. The Verkhovna Rada, at its meeting of 9 April 2015, adopted a law “On the Condemnation of the Communist and Nazi totalitarian regimes in Ukraine and the prohibition of propaganda of their symbols”. The document recognises that communist and national socialist (Nazi) totalitarian regimes in Ukraine are criminal and prohibits the public use and propaganda of their symbols. The Nazi totalitarian regime at the legislative level is recognised in Ukraine as pursuing a policy of state terror. Also, the right-wing extremists in Ukraine – whose presence no one is denying – are in the margins and have failed miserably in every election since 2014.

Russia, on the other hand, has frequently allowed propaganda for fascism in Kremlin and oligarch media outlets, hailing Franco and Mussolini.

Deny, deny, deny

In yet another typical attempt, the disinformation machine peddled accusations against the West: photos documenting atrocities were fake, victims were models, nothing is true and everything is made up by the West in an “information terrorism attempt” against Russia, foreign ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said. There was no attack in the first place, it was a “staged provocation that can deceive the Western public but not an expert”, claimed the Russian Defence Ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov.

The pro-Kremlin disinformation machine quickly picked up the story. Quoting information from Telegram, Sputnik Mundo said that the images that appeared in The Guardian and The Times were not real and were fabricated by professional models and photographers. The story was also reported by ZeroHedge and Russian diplomatic accounts reported about it under a dedicated campaign to “StopFakes” (Russian Embassy in Spain, Russian Embassy in the Vatican, Russian Embassy in France). In a “fact-checking” attempt, Russian Embassy in the UK identified one of the ‘models’ as a Ukrainian Instagrammer and a beauty blogger. To corroborate its statements of a ‘hoax attack’ in Mariupol, the Embassy on its Twitter account used the blogger’s name and a screenshot of her older post on Instagram on which she does not appear pregnant. Both tweets are now deleted by Twitter.

It takes a real cynic to first kill innocent people, then claim it didn’t happen, and at the same time that it did happen but for a “good” reason (fighting Nazis!). In a tragic turn of the events, a wounded woman evacuated from the maternity ward in Mariupol has died, along with her baby. The other woman, whose face, name and Instagram account were used for the Kremlin’s smear campaign, has given birth to a baby girl but as of March 11 was still in heavily bombed Mariupol.

True Lies

The Kremlin is desperately attempting the well-tested means of flooding the information space with contradictory messages in order to obscure the actual facts. It has attempted the method in the cases of Skripal, Navalny and flight MH17, to mention just a few. Lies and violence are closely knitted in the Kremlin disinformation efforts. Lies are employed to hide the violence; violence is employed to hide the lies. In the meantime, the International Criminal Court has initiated the process of collecting and analysing all documents available for a future case against the perpetrators.

[Tanaji]

https://euvsdisinfo.eu/category/ukraine-page/

https://euvsdisinfo.eu/why-does-putin-p ... eo-nazism/

WHY DOES PUTIN PORTRAY HIMSELF AS THE TAMER OF NEO-NAZISM?

Why does Putin portray himself as the tamer of neo-Nazism?

An entire article without mentioning once the Nazi militias that make up the Ukrainian military. Not that its anyone else calling them Nazis, they themselves refer to self as fascist and Nazis. Also no mention of the forced de-Russianisation efforts of Ukraine by removing any other language than Ukrainian and other policies.

All the above are not Kremlin talking points, each is documented by the so-called free media of West along with pictures showing Nazi imagery.

We are not posting Kremlin press releases here, so why would you post this?

[eklavya]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60825226

Mariupol: Four reasons the city matters so much to Russia

By Frank Gardner
BBC security correspondent

Mariupol has become the most heavily bombed and damaged city in Ukraine's war with Russia - having suffered the brunt of sustained Russian attacks. It is key to Moscow's military campaign in Ukraine. But why?

There are four main reasons why taking the port city would be such a strategic win for Russia - and a major blow for Ukraine.

1. Securing a land corridor between Crimea and Donbas

Geographically, the city of Mariupol occupies only a tiny area on the map but it now stands obstinately in the way of Russian forces who have burst out of the Crimean peninsula.

They are pushing north-east to try to link up with their comrades and Ukrainian-separatist allies in the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine.

General Sir Richard Barrons - former commander of UK Joint Forces Command - says capturing Mariupol is vital to Russia's war effort.

"When the Russians feel they have successfully concluded that battle, they will have completed a land bridge from Russia to Crimea and they will see this as a major strategic success."

If Mariupol was seized, Russia would also end up with full control of more than 80% of Ukraine's Black Sea coastline - cutting-off its maritime trade and further isolating it from the world.

By holding out against advancing forces for the past three weeks, the defending Ukrainians have managed to preoccupy a large number of Russian troops. But that failure by Russia to secure a rapid capture of the city, has prompted Russian commanders to resort to a 21st Century version of mediaeval siege tactics.

They have pummelled Mariupol with artillery, rockets and missiles - damaging or destroying over 90% of the city. They have also cut off access to electricity, heating, fresh water, food and medical supplies - creating a man-made humanitarian catastrophe which Moscow now blames on Ukraine for refusing to surrender by an 05:00 deadline on Monday. A Ukrainian MP has accused Russia of "trying to starve Mariupol into surrender".

Ukraine has vowed to defend the city down to the last soldier. It may well come to that. Russian troops are slowly pushing into the centre and, in the absence of any kind of workable peace deal, Russia is now likely to intensify its bombardment - drawing little if any distinction between its armed defenders and the beleaguered civilian population which still numbers over 200,000.

If, and when, Russia takes full control of Mariupol this will free up close to 6,000 of its troops - organised into 1,000-strong battalion tactical groups - to then go and reinforce other Russian fronts around Ukraine.

There are a number of possibilities as to where they could be redeployed:

to the north-east to join the battle to encircle and destroy Ukraine's regular armed forces fighting pro-Kremlin separatists in the Donbas region
to the west to push towards Odesa, which would be Ukraine's last remaining major outlet to the Black Sea
to the north-west towards the city of Dnipro

2. Strangling Ukraine's economy

Mariupol has long-been a strategically important port on the Sea of Azov, part of the Black Sea.

With its deep berths, it is the biggest port in the Azov Sea region and home to a major iron and steel works. In normal times, Mariupol is a key export hub for Ukraine's steel, coal and corn going to customers in the Middle East and beyond.

Concrete blocks on a beach to block vehicles from the Azov Sea to the main road outside Mariupol port, 17 FebruaryGetty Images
Ukrainian concrete defences on a beach by Mariupol port, 17 February
For eight years now, since Moscow's illegal annexation of Crimea in 2014, the city has been sandwiched uncomfortably between Russian forces on that peninsula and the pro-Kremlin separatists in the breakaway self-declared republics of Donetsk and Luhansk.

Losing Mariupol would be a major blow to what is left of Ukraine's economy.

3. Propaganda opportunity

Mariupol is home to a Ukrainian militia unit called the Azov Brigade, named after the Sea of Azov which links Mariupol to the rest of the Black Sea. The Azov Brigade contains far-right extremists including neo-Nazis.

Although they form only the tiniest fraction of Ukraine's fighting forces, this has been a useful propaganda tool for Moscow, giving it a pretext for telling Russia's population that the young men it has sent to fight in Ukraine are there to rid their neighbour of neo-Nazis.

If Russia manages to capture alive significant numbers of Azov Brigade fighters it is likely they will be paraded on Russian state-controlled media as part of the ongoing information war to discredit Ukraine and its government.

4. Major morale boost

The capture of Mariupol by Russia, if it happens, will be psychologically significant for both sides in this war.

A Russian victory in Mariupol would enable the Kremlin to show its population - through state-controlled media - that Russia was achieving its aims and making progress.

For President Putin, for whom this war appears to be personal, there is a historical significance to all this. He sees Ukraine's Black Sea coastline as belonging to something called Novorossiya (New Russia) - Russian lands that date back to the 18th Century empire.

Putin wants to revive that concept, "rescuing Russians from the tyranny of a pro-western government in Kyiv" as he sees it. Mariupol currently stands in the way of him achieving that aim.

But to Ukrainians, the loss of Mariupol would be a major blow - not just militarily and economically - but also to the minds of the men and women fighting on the ground, defending their country. Mariupol would be the first major city to fall to the Russians after Kherson, a strategically much less important city that was barely defended.

There is another morale aspect here and that is of deterrence.

Mariupol has put up fierce resistance - but look at the cost. The city is decimated, it lies largely in ruins. It will go down in history alongside Grozny and Aleppo, places that Russia eventually bombed and shelled into submission, reducing them to rubble. The message to other Ukrainian cities is stark - if you choose to resist like Mariupol did then you can expect the same fate.

"The Russians couldn't walk into Mariupol," says Gen Sir Richard Barrons, "they couldn't drive in with their tanks, so they've pounded it to rubble. And that's what we should expect to see anywhere else that really matters to them."

[ks_sachin]

So much hypocracy!!!



https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... sia-nestle

[Tanaji]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe

So if the Azov battalion is a tiny fraction of Ukrainian military why doesnt Banian-sky stand up on the platform and say he denounces this battalion and that it should be disbanded? He has had plenty of chances to do so before the war and doing do would have taken out a central plank of Putins propaganda . Yet he has maintained total silence on this, which speaks volumes. Then also there is the treatment meted out to non white people including Indians. There are reports of Bangladeshi students been held as human shields by Ukranians. Historical records show Ukranians supported Nazis in WW2… the article does a stellar job at sweeping the facts under the carpet.

Also, can someone contrast Mariupol shelling with what happened in Iraq and Fallujah? Oh wait a minute…

[kit]

Artyom Bonov, a former member of “Azov” regiment. He have fled to Poland to “avoid Russian repressions” ( “being executed or sent to camps”). Poles now have a “wonderful” man in their neighborhood
And, remember, “there is no Nazism in Ukraine” !

[kit]

“Bandera” and “Shukhevych”
When an Israeli hears those names, he likely thinks of those events.,







Bandera’s OUN celebrates liberation of Lviv by the Nazis by raping Jewish women and underage girls in broad daylight, before murdering them together with other Jews.

To become a President, Zelensky had to declare that he “understands” people who see Bandera as the creator of the nation - and say nothing about people who see Bandera as a Nazi mass-murderer. A Jew in Ukraine is fine, as long as he/she knows their place, and agrees that unification of Ukraine (actually done by Stalin, not Bandera, but I digress) is more important than perpetration of Holocaust.

It was proposed by Russia, with clear objective to condemn Ukraine. Only Ukraine and US voted against. All US allies obstained, with one exception - Israel voted for the resolution. Israeli voters understand that they need to follow US orders, but glorification on Holocaust perpertrators is one thing they find it hard to overlook.

As far as not supporting Zelensky as a Jew, the two facts are important:

Zelensky serves Ukraine. Israeli politicians should serve Israel. There are Jews all over the world, in Russia, Ukraine, US, France to name a few. They serve their countries as they (and their donors) see fit, often to the detriment of Israel - Senator Schumer is an obvious example. Similarly, Israel politicians favour politicians who favour Israel, not those who happen to be Jewish.

[kit]

Why is bee bee cee being posted as a source in this thread ?!!! .. their credibility is zero

[kit]

And the rest of the world is waking up to US imperialism and its cronies

[kit]

[vinod]

After capturing several towns along the river (including Kherson), they have now crossed the Dnieper and advanced almost 100 km into western Pakraine.

Encircling Mikolayev seems the next goal, after which Odessa will likely be hit with both a land and naval assault. There are a lot of military installations in the area which presumably Putin wants to neutralize.

I'm yet to see the evidence that Russians have actually pushed into western Ukraine. There have been attempts near Mikolayev but unsuccessful so far. Moreover, there is a serious counter attack being undertaken by Ukrainians against kherson.

Mikolayev needs to be taken before they can reach odessa. If they have entrenched like in mariupol, then it would take weeks for Russians to capture it. Also, if they encircled, then there is always a threat to the lines from mikolayev.

For now, Russians seems to be focusing on mariupol and Eastern regions while keeping the Ukrainian forces tied down in other places.

[kit]

Volodymyr Zelenskyy visiting injured Ukranian soldiers....or is he? Check out the mains socket... Type E which is used in Israel and Poland. This 'brave Ukranian' leader is not even in Ukraine with the native people.

[kit]

Why volunteering in a war is a really BAD idea

As a volunteer you do not have the rights of a prisoner of war. According to the Geneva Convention Protocol I Article 47, if a foreigner that isn’t a resident, and not sent by an official military engage in a conflict where they receive pay, they are mercenaries, and not entitled to any of the protections of a POW or lawful combatant. And as such can be tried by the country which captures them, according to their own criminal code, which could mean being tried as a terrorist and executed.

While you as a person may have noble intentions, there is no guarantee that people around you do as well. War attract people who likes violence, may have radical political opinions or be mentally unstable and dangerous in other ways. A volunteer group may not have any consistent standards for it’s recruitment process, and you may find yourself with extremely immoral bed fellows, that you wish you were not together with.
You cannot go back. Recently it has surfaced that, a lot of volunteers to Ukraine was under the notion it was a come and go as you please deal. It is not. Once you join a conflict, you are on a side of it, you cannot just leave. Leaving will make you a deserter, and traditionally deserters are executed. No one will object to your execution as a deserter either, your home country will almost certainly not try to save you.
The legality is extremely questionable. Even if your government allows you to do it now, by not enforcing its laws. Does not mean they will not do so later. For example, while many European nations didn’t stop people to go fight in Syria, they suddenly found it very difficult to get home afterwards, being labeled as illegal fighters.

Your comrades may be incompetent and get you killed. Again with no official recruitment policy, even requiring military experience is absolutely no guarantee that the recruits are capable without a full background check, which is not done with foreign volunteers. As such you may find yourself in the situation above, where multiple volunteers filmed themselves and uploaded pictures from their phones to the internet. This was geolocated by Russia, and the area was bombed. Provided this sequence of events is entirely true, these volunteers essentially destroyed their entire battalion by sheer incompetence. Volunteers are not trained in radio silence and discipline, and it will absolutely be used against you.
The people going there will not be controllable. Extremist elements exist in every society, allowing them to get weapons training, will not make them less extreme. On the contrary, many historical cases show that famous terrorists, were radicalized even more by war, and given the skills to carry out atrocities at home. This might in the long term increase violence in the home country.
Allowing volunteers from your country to join a conflict sets a dangerous precedent. If you allow your citizens to join a conflict against your political, but non declared military, enemies, what stop them from doing the same to you? A country could deliberately export their most destabilizing elements to conflict zones, and could potentially arm them too. This making the scale of proxies wars increase drastically. More populous countries with belligerent intentions could use previous examples of volunteers to flood conflict zones with their own in the future, starting a cycle increased destructiveness in all future wars.

Volunteers are militarily insignificant. Volunteers rarely have the same level of motivation as national soldiers. Nor are they usually as well equipped, trained or organized. In the best case of their use, they can act to free up better manpower for heavier front line duty. But in face of real battle against a determined national army, volunteers and mercenaries in particular, have a long history of breaking almost immediately. Again, the western volunteers in Ukraine are a fine example, with many panicking completely after being on the receiving end of an airstrike. They do not have the skills and motivation to change the outcome of battles in most cases, and thus even if the wish of a state is to hurt the opposing force, volunteers have a very limited impact in this area. Arguably, if the volunteers are extremely motivated as was the case for some religiously motivated fighters in Syria, their use might increase. However, bear in mind that this is to the point in which several of them became suicide bombers, which is a very rare level of motivation. Not to mention the language and cultural barrier that prevents foreigners from participating on equal footing in military communication.

Volunteers might well reflect very poorly on the national image of the home country. There are two ways this can happen. Firstly you volunteers can have an embarrassing performance for any of the previously mentioned reasons. Running away en-mass, leaking information, showing public incompetence or otherwise being a liability for the recipient country. Particularly in today’s media climate where these people might well film themselves doing these things, which could undermine the prestige and reputation of the home country. The other way is that they can be horrible psychopaths. With no good recruitment oversight and screening, people who are proud rapists, murderers or publicly flaunt opinions contrary to the politics of the home country, can further damage the reputation and prestige of the home country. If a war criminal is caught in the war zone who has been raping and murdering people on camera is caught, and it turns out this is a volunteer from the home country, this would be a public relations disaster for that country.

They might lose, and blame you for it. Sending volunteers might be popular, if they win a glorious victory. But even when spun sending thousands of people to die is rarely popular, not with their families or friends at least. Spreading the idea that the side your nation support is winning, which then encourages people to go join the winning side, only to end up losing, will inevitably lead to mistrust of the government and media, and start a notion of deception. While volunteers might initially blame the recipient country, or other factors, through reflection some will probably question why they thought the war was different than it was in the first place, and thus become vocal critics of the government which allowed it. Thus a home country could potentially create their own critics, depending on the freedom of speech laws of the home country of course.

[kit]

[anupmisra]

'Ukrainians guards took part in extermination'

At Demjanjuk trial, Holocaust survivor says Ukrainian guards outnumbered Nazis 10-to-1 at Sobibor camp.

Ukrainian-born Demjanjuk, an 89-year-old retired Ohio autoworker, is accused of serving as a low-level guard at the camp in occupied Poland and is charged with accessory to murder in 27,900 deaths.

150 or so Ukrainians who acted as guards came under the authority of the approximately 15 German SS men at the camp.

The west, as usual, is again on the wrong side of history. Please don't take this as passing a clean chit on Putin, who is a ruthless dictator.

https://www.jpost.com/international/ukr ... ermination

[anupmisra]

Collaboration

In total, historians estimate that around one million Jews were murdered by the Nazis and their collaborators during the Holocaust in the Ukraine.

There was significant collaboration between the Ukrainians and the Nazis throughout the occupation of the Ukraine and the Holocaust.

Ukrainian police actively collaborated with the Einsatzgruppen in the murder of the Jewish people. Some served as camp or ghetto guards, others helped to round up Jews, and others participated in shooting them.

https://www.theholocaustexplained.org/l ... s/ukraine/