Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 25 Mar 2022 07:47

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olg5mykrX1k

Gen Soni discusses the russian invasion. looks like really bad planning

banrjeer · Post by **banrjeer** » 25 Mar 2022 08:28

SwamyG wrote:
vinod wrote: Currency war is a precursor to full shooting match.
The World is not like that it was in the 40s. A full scale war involving major powers have serious consequences on the public in far away lands. The war fields and attack modes have expanded.
The powers realize this, they are not stupid. Full shooting, hopefully, will remain a wet dream of some.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 25 Mar 2022 10:46

kit wrote:
rsingh wrote:Israel will never side Ukraine. Nazification is the reason. Point.

Israeli ex commandos are off to Uke btw., after Zskys "emotional" speech

Does anyone notice " ZELINSKY EMOTIONAL SPEECH / APPEAL " etc is an ACTUAL TOOL OF WARFARE., HE WAS CHOSEN PRECISELY BECAUSE HE IS AN ACTOR

I am reminded of novel 'American Hero' by Larry Beinhart about how Gulf war 1 was weaved with help from Hollywood producer and director:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wag_the_Dog_(novel)
____________________

@rathorekaran17:

#UkraineWar . Ukraine army has been cut up into pockets and has ceased to exist as an entity.
The Zelensky Govt has exited the country and is being housed in the west. From where it functions, largely on SM. However it has lost control of all governmental functions of a Govt

Resultantly, there is no entity that controls the country in Ukraine. A peculiar situation.
The Russky aim is not to capture Ukraine, but to bring it to the table and extract a promise of neutrality. Zelensky housed in Poland with his dual US citizenship, will give no assurance

Ukraine is being battered by the Russian hammer in a pointless war, where the leaders of Ukraine, it appears, give two hoots to the suffering and destruction brought about on the nation. The country's ruling elite has no connect with the lay citizen.

With no Govt existing on ground in Ukraine, there is no@entity that the Russians can negotiate with. Talking to Zelensky is pointless as he is pushing an agenda. Russia will probably be compelled to adopt the Chechenya model, where they will bring in and establish a leader.

Let's see how things pan@out.

https://twitter.com/rathorekaran17/stat ... 7gTsQ&s=19

kit · Post by **kit** » 25 Mar 2022 12:26

propaganda western style

kit · Post by **kit** » 25 Mar 2022 12:33

In 2015, a popular new show hit Ukrainian TV, it was called “Servant of the People”. It was a comedy show about a Ukrainian high school history teacher who gets elected as the President of Ukraine, largely by accident. The star of the show was this guy, Volodymyr Zelenskyy:

This is not a photoshopped image. It is a still from the Ukrainian comedy show “Servant of the People” (2015). The actor/comedian playing as the President of Ukraine in the comedy show is now the actual President of Ukraine. And no, this is also not the Onion.

Now… to be fair to Ukraine, other democratically challenged countries have also elected actors and comedians to the role of President. Sometimes things work out, and that President/actor ends up hastening the collapse of the USSR. And sometimes things don’t work out and the President/actor ends up telling people to drink bleach on national TV. It’s a coin toss really.

Unfortunately for the people of Ukraine and its future as a sovereign state, Zelenskyy has turned out to be more Trump than Reagan.

—

Ukraine applied to join NATO in 2008. Back then, Russia was just invading Georgia, so it seemed like a good time for Ukraine to find new friends. Unfortunately for Ukraine, NATO membership was never going to be a thing. Putin made it crystal clear that Ukrainian membership in NATO was an absolute redline. And so… Ukraine’s application languished, largely forgotten.

In 2014, though… everything changed. The then pro-Russian President of Ukraine was overthrown in a pro-NATO coup, the famous Maidan Square Revolution. Now Kiev (which is more pro-NATO than the average of the country) was going to install a pro-NATO regime, and NATO membership seemed within reach.

But with the Russian annexation of Crimea and the establishment of the separatists states in Donbas, NATO pulled back, realizing that the ex-KGB man in Moscow was 100% serious when he said he would use military force to keep Ukraine out of NATO.

The Maidan Square Revolution in 2014 was the make-or-break moment for NATO membership. If NATO wouldn’t admit Ukraine then, it was never going admit Ukraine.

At this point, a sane man with any degree of common sense would see the solution to this whole debacle: withdraw your NATO application. If NATO is not giving you membership now, then it will never give you membership. But your continued insistence on joining will still draw the ire of the dude with enough self-confidence to ride a horse without a shirt on.

—

Back in 2015, Angela Merkel, the last competent European leader, was still doing her thing. And her thing was to make Ukraine a neutral country, neither Russian-backed like Belarus, nor NATO like Poland. It was called the “Finlandization” of Ukraine. And it took the form of Minsk II:

Minsk II proposed to:

Re-incorporate Donbas into Ukraine
Hold snap presidential and parliamentary elections
The idea was that once the ethnic Russians in Donbas were added back into the electorate, the country would elect a balanced parliament with a more neutral president, neither pro, nor anti-Russia.

This would have basically done a Ctrl-Z undo on Maidan… not a terrible idea if you want to get your country (minus Crimea) back together and avoid a Russian invasion.

Russia and Ukraine both agreed to this agreement in principle, but it was never implemented, setting the stage for today.

Minsk II, or war

Zelenskyy, far out of his element as a comedian, was like a deer caught in headlights. On one hand, he was receiving all kinds of promises from the Americans of military hardware support. On the other side there’s the looming giant ****** bear.

Maybe Zsky should just go back home .. to america

kit · Post by **kit** » 25 Mar 2022 12:38

“If the country is small but the ruler doesn’t accept its humble status; it forces weak but never fears the strong ; the country knows no ritual propriety, insults strong neighbors; greedy and obstinate but unskilled in diplomacy; such a country deserves its downfall.”

Han Fei 280 – 233 BC

kit · Post by **kit** » 25 Mar 2022 12:42

OPERATION BARBAROSSA 101

Here you can see how US/NATO had essentially created a strategic encirclement of Russia, if Ukraine joins NATO as well, this means that NATO forces, a military organization outright hostile to Russia, will be able to directly take its heartland, Russia will essentially be facing a repeat of Operation Barbarossa

This is why Putin has made it dead clear multiple times:

*Ukraine is Russia’s redline, NATO is not allowed to expand Eastward into Ukraine*

So what Ukraine should have done?

The answer is simply not to listen to the US stirring up sh*t in the region and follow its Nordic neighbor, Finland’s footsteps of:

Engaging in close cooperation and ties with the West but NEVER WANTING TO JOIN NATO.
Remain friendly towards Russia.
When you are a small nation caught between 2 powerful neighbors, the smart thing to do is to be friends with both whilst maintaining a distance.

But the US will not ignore an opportunity to stab Russia, so with some instigation, the 2014 colour revolution in Ukraine saw the complete turnaround to the West, and this alarmed Russia, who then immediately annexed Crimea and supported the Donabas separatists.

Then Zsky happened

kit · Post by **kit** » 25 Mar 2022 13:02

WMD ANYONE ?

AND THE CREAM FOR THE CAKE.. sanctioning in case any prosecutor from international criminal court tries to charge us of war crimes

HYPOCRISY AT ITS BEST

kit · Post by **kit** » 25 Mar 2022 16:01

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 25 Mar 2022 17:10

Seems Mariupol is now completely in Russian hands

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 25 Mar 2022 17:38

It could be kicking off between Azerbaijan and Armenia.

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-702273

According to some sources one reason could be the Azerbaijan is attempting to take advantage of Russian inattention.

kit · Post by **kit** » 25 Mar 2022 18:45

Zelensky’s misfired speech

" Watching in my living room, I also found myself at times infuriated by the tone and words of the Ukrainian leader and was talking back at him."

Mentioning Babyn Yar, the site where Nazis murdered at least 33,770 Jews over a two-day period, with the support of antisemitic Ukrainian collaborators, was less smart. And comparing the threat to Ukraine today to the Nazi actions against the Jews was simply wrong. Altogether, Zelensky, who is Jewish, seems to have misread where Israel stands on Holocaust analogies. Nothing, absolutely nothing, can be compared to the Shoah. Russia is carrying out a barbaric atrocity; it is not committing systematic genocide aimed at killing every single Ukrainian.

Comparing the Russian invasion to the German invasion of Czechoslovakia, while the West stood back, makes sense, but World War II and the Holocaust should not be considered synonymous. Incidentally, Zelensky earlier accused the Russians of deliberately attacking and destroying the Babyn Yar memorial, although this turned out to be incorrect.

“Ukrainians have made their choice 80 years ago. They rescued Jews. That is why the Righteous Among the Nations are among us. People of Israel, now you have such a choice,” Zelensky said. He should have rewritten his speech, rather than tried to rewrite history. Saying that the Ukrainian people helped save the Jews in the Shoah is not Holocaust denial, but Holocaust perversion, as a friend put it.

At the risk of suffering a talkback backlash, I am willing to come out in support of the former approach. Israel is the Jewish state, the Jewish home; supporting the immigration of Jews is part of its raison d’etre. Of course there are humanitarian exceptions that should be made, and Israel should continue to take in the direct descendants of Ukrainian Righteous Gentiles, those moral, courageous people who saved Jews in the Holocaust and were far less numerous than Zelensky would have us believe."

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 25 Mar 2022 20:11

Y. Kanan · Post by **Y. Kanan** » 25 Mar 2022 21:07

Baikul wrote:It could be kicking off between Azerbaijan and Armenia.

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-702273

According to some sources one reason could be the Azerbaijan is attempting to take advantage of Russian inattention.

With Russia weakened, this is Azerbaijan's chance to finish the job and exterminate the Armenians once and for all.

banrjeer · Post by **banrjeer** » 25 Mar 2022 22:18

Houthis bombed UAE, UAE has played it down a bit. Azerbaijan attacking Armenia is predictable.

Russia was forced to step in and protect Russian speakers of Ukraine, it was the DPRs last stand and Russia has sacrificed lives to save them. Hope its not in vain. NATO comes across as a violence-monger reliving their anti Russian fantasy war games using Ukranians as canon fodder.

Theres some understanding of this in the non white world.

skumar · Post by **skumar** » 25 Mar 2022 22:49

While there is some understanding and support in India for why Russia is doing what it is doing, I hope Putin recognizes that countries which are currently abstaining from UN resolutions cannot continue to do so if Russia enlarges the theatre of war. Putin will lose this support.

At the same time, from an Indian perspective, we owe Russia for supporting us in the UN over decades. [Rant] Digressing a bit from topic, we also need to keep in mind that one of our finest PMs died in Russia in mysterious circumstances and India went under USSR and later Russian influence. Mitrokhin archives laid bare many Russian designs in India - we are to blame because we kept electing those sort of leaders. Point to be noted is that USSR/Russia supported us when we were defending, not being the aggressors, except in the case of Bangladesh which was truly an exercise to prevent genocide.[/Rant]

I believe there is a limit to what India will do or abstain from doing.

bala · Post by **bala** » 25 Mar 2022 23:22

India is a dharmic country that believes in Karma, which distinguishes India from the rest. There is a sense that you are answerable for your actions. In this tussle which is mainly a US Deep state shoulder firing over Ukraine on Rus Soviath, we have correctly abstained from the fracas and India does not want to take sides, ergo abstained. We will continue to buy goods and services from both sides and we don't want to participate in any economic warfare. What this tussle has shown is how fragile the world is which is not surprising. The Universe is held together in a rather delicate balance. People and their machinations are based on a whim, a desire, a brief interlude of relationships which can turn any which way. Why do we need to dig deeper. None of the characters are stellar or worthy of anything. There is underlying greed, superciliousness, major inbuilt complexes and behavior of gloomy and base nature, nothing to emulate or be proud of. In some sense there is a deep desire to have 2 powers as a check on other to re-establish that delicate balance of the Universe, otherwise one would envelope the other and cause a huge imbalance, not good for Universal order.

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 25 Mar 2022 23:30

Y. Kanan wrote:
Baikul wrote:It could be kicking off between Azerbaijan and Armenia.

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-702273

According to some sources one reason could be the Azerbaijan is attempting to take advantage of Russian inattention.
With Russia weakened, this is Azerbaijan's chance to finish the job and exterminate the Armenians once and for all.

With global order changing dominos are falling. Was the afghan withdrawal related ?

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 26 Mar 2022 01:06

MoD Russia presser translation according to FT journalist:

Russia's military held a big briefing this afternoon, announcing the war was entering a 'second phase'.
Here's a summary of how Russia, at this point in the war, is depicting what it set out to do, why, and where we're at. (relaying their words, pls don't shoot msnger)

Firstly, the generals said Russia had always intended only to 'liberate' the Donbas, that was what it set out to do. It had two options: fight a war in the east, but allow Kyiv to replenish its forces, or start off by knocking out Ukrainian military capacities across the country.

Over a month of war, Russia has knocked out most of Ukraine's military capacities, the generals claimed, so can now move on to next phase, which will only be focused on the east, which could involve heavy bombardment.

Russia had never intended to capture Kyiv, Kharkiv and other cities, the generals said - these are not setbacks in other words, it's all part of the plan. And the plan was to distract Ukrainian forces while Russia/ Donetsk/ Luhansk made territorial gains in the east.

Numerous statements made about not targeting civilian infrastructure, avoiding civilian casualties.

Defence ministry briefing also shared a new official figure for the number of Russian soldiers killed, the second statement by Russian side during the course of this war. Said 1,351 were killed - figure is far below Ukrainian and international estimates.

https://twitter.com/polinaivanovva/stat ... 8uH7YKa3dQ

banrjeer · Post by **banrjeer** » 26 Mar 2022 01:15

Atmavik wrote:
Y. Kanan wrote:
With Russia weakened, this is Azerbaijan's chance to finish the job and exterminate the Armenians once and for all.

With global order changing dominos are falling. Was the afghan withdrawal related ?

Cant tell. It probably wanted to avenge Crimea and did not want distractions. Le'ts remember the cache of arms left for the taleban and the short military campaign against the Tajiks. Tajiks are still tied economically to Russia.

Even Baloch have used American weapons recently

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 26 Mar 2022 03:48

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60882156 War in Ukraine: Change of emphasis or admission of failure by Moscow?

Retreat may not mean tame ambitions

A renewed push now could see Russian troops pushing out into so-far unconquered areas of Donetsk and Luhansk, possibly aiming to link up with forces moving south from Kharkiv and Izyum.

And if Russia can succeed in finally pacifying the port of Mariupol, on the Sea of Azov, then other forces could move north and complete the encirclement of the JFO.

Some of these objectives still seem out of reach. Mariupol's defenders are putting up a ferocious fight, preventing Russia from fully achieving another of its pre-war ambitions - a land bridge from the Crimean Peninsula to the Donbas.

But if Moscow has concluded that it makes more sense to concentrate, for the time being, on achieving one objective at a time, it's likely to concentrate its firepower, especially from the air.

The Ukrainian military, disciplined and motivated as it is, will need all the help it can get to withstand the pressure.

"I hope that's where the Western supply of arms will make a significant contribution to Ukrainian forces," one Western official said.

If the coming days do see a shift of focus to the Donbas, that doesn't yet mean that Moscow has abandoned its wider ambitions.

banrjeer · Post by **banrjeer** » 26 Mar 2022 04:44

Once they secure the water supply and land bridge, then they are done.

Let's remember there was no Crimean invasion they were already there. It was a purely babu exercise like art370 EXCEPT they were already sitting on the territory they claimed.

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 26 Mar 2022 05:30

IndraD wrote:MoD Russia presser translation according to FT journalist:

Russia's military held a big briefing this afternoon, announcing the war was entering a 'second phase'.
Here's a summary of how Russia, at this point in the war, is depicting what it set out to do, why, and where we're at. (relaying their words, pls don't shoot msnger)

Firstly, the generals said Russia had always intended only to 'liberate' the Donbas, that was what it set out to do. It had two options: fight a war in the east, but allow Kyiv to replenish its forces, or start off by knocking out Ukrainian military capacities across the country.

Over a month of war, Russia has knocked out most of Ukraine's military capacities, the generals claimed, so can now move on to next phase, which will only be focused on the east, which could involve heavy bombardment.

Russia had never intended to capture Kyiv, Kharkiv and other cities, the generals said - these are not setbacks in other words, it's all part of the plan. And the plan was to distract Ukrainian forces while Russia/ Donetsk/ Luhansk made territorial gains in the east.

Numerous statements made about not targeting civilian infrastructure, avoiding civilian casualties.

Defence ministry briefing also shared a new official figure for the number of Russian soldiers killed, the second statement by Russian side during the course of this war. Said 1,351 were killed - figure is far below Ukrainian and international estimates.

https://twitter.com/polinaivanovva/stat ... 8uH7YKa3dQ

I think most of it is for their own people's consumption and to reassure them every thing is going as per plan.

Russians did want to take kyiv early on but that was foiled. If that had worked out, they could have forced a deal or a regime change. It was worth a shot. Ukrainians were ready given how long this about to invade intelligence was available.
Given there are 300k Ukrainians and only 190k Russian forces, the attackers required ratio of 1:3 or 1:4 dominance is not there. This means, it is going to be painfully slow progress from now on. The only saving grace for Russians is that they can hit Ukrainian supply route. Ukrainians are being encouraged to stand up and are being told even a stalemate is victory. So, they are entrenched everywhere.
Russian may now just wreck the whole place, but western governments are going to support attacks against Russia for the next decade.

banrjeer · Post by **banrjeer** » 26 Mar 2022 06:05

If Kiev was their agenda they would have needed to field at at least double or tripe the number of troops vs what they did.

This was Putin's stated aim before the invasion, Donbass Luhansk mostly done. denazification some success, Demilitarization, probably not, its a temporary setback for Ukraine.

Even Biden made a weird quasi invitation for Russia to take slices of Ukraine before the invasion.

ManuJ · Post by **ManuJ** » 26 Mar 2022 07:38

Russia's original aim was definitely regime change and demilitarization of Ukraine, as stated by none other than Putin himself.
It could not have been achieved without going into Kiev and overthrowing the existing regime.
Russia sacrificed thousands of men and pieces of equipment in pitched battles around Kiev and Kharkhiv.

So yes, this is a massive strategic retreat but of course don't expect them to admit it.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 26 Mar 2022 08:24

banrjeer wrote:Once they secure the water supply and land bridge, then they are done.

Let's remember there was no Crimean invasion they were already there. It was a purely babu exercise like art370 EXCEPT they were already sitting on the territory they claimed.

The Russians were only present in the Naval base of Sevastopol (not even in the whole city) and not in the Crimea.
Crimea was technically an invasion. Since the Ukrainian army and air force (which could easily have stopped the invasion) did not fire a shot in its defense, it probably influenced Putin's thinking for this operation.

The Crimea invasion required a competent and well executed plan at very short notice. Without a land bridge, airborne forces had to neutralise the airfields. Amphibious landings were required and every city had to have enough Russian soldiers to intimidate any Ukrainian forces there. It had all to be done literally overnight. That's why the lack of planning for this operation comes as a surprise to me.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 26 Mar 2022 08:39

ManuJ wrote:Russia's original aim was definitely regime change and demilitarization of Ukraine, as stated by none other than Putin himself.
It could not have been achieved without going into Kiev and overthrowing the existing regime.
Russia sacrificed thousands of men and pieces of equipment in pitched battles around Kiev and Kharkhiv.

So yes, this is a massive strategic retreat but of course don't expect them to admit it.

I'd put it in a more nuanced way. Russian's objectives upto the eve of the invasion (as stated since 2015) were the implementation of Minsk-2 - which had a clause that would prevent NATO membership for Ukraine and recognition for Crimea (or de-facto recognition and some roll back of sanctions). Since that did not happen and the stakes had to be significantly increased, he upped the ante with the regime change and demilitarization demand.
I think these demands might have been influenced by:
- The extent of NATO training and weapons sent to the Ukraine under the enhanced cooperation program from 2020 &
- Zelenski and most of the leadership had a viable exit option ( go to the country they had dual citizenship of).

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 26 Mar 2022 09:03

Atmavik wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olg5mykrX1k
Gen Soni discusses the russian invasion. looks like really bad planning

The poor performance of USSR during Finland-USSR war in 1939 convinced Hitler that Germany would have an easy victory against Stalin. The poor condition of the Red Army and the Stalinist purges also convinced many German generals of this. The present situation in Ukraine may cause similar thinking in NATO leadership.
Gautam

John · Post by **John** » 26 Mar 2022 09:21

ManuJ wrote:Russia's original aim was definitely regime change and demilitarization of Ukraine, as stated by none other than Putin himself.
It could not have been achieved without going into Kiev and overthrowing the existing regime.
Russia sacrificed thousands of men and pieces of equipment in pitched battles around Kiev and Kharkhiv.

So yes, this is a massive strategic retreat but of course don't expect them to admit it.

If you go back to start of the conflict that’s exactly what I said Russia should have done focus on the east which I got flack from folks here for saying that. Trying to attack whole country with so many different fronts and goals was unreasonable given Russia capability (or lack there of). My assessment was if they don’t take Kyiv within a week they were never going capture it without a very expensive campaign financially & casualty wise (even I didn’t expect this bad).

What they should have focused is on east and kept the other forces stationed in Belarus and Crimea threatening a invasion if Ukraine receives arms or sanctions worsen. Even if that eastern campaign stalls you can still negotiate a deal of some sort recognition for eastern provinces in return for Russian pullout of forces in border and the east.

A Deshmukh · Post by **A Deshmukh** » 26 Mar 2022 09:47

John wrote:My assessment was if they don’t take Kyiv within a week they were never going capture it without a very expensive campaign financially & casualty wise (even I didn’t expect this bad).

From how the war has progressed so far, it does not seem Russia ever wanted to capture Kyiv.
They have stationed an army at the gates of Kyiv, just to keep major part of Ukr army in Kyiv.
The real goal seems to capture the eastern parts of Ukr nearer to Donbass, and Crimea.
there stated goals were - protect Donbass people (done), de-Nazify (done with destruction of Ukr Nazi paramilitaries, de-militarize (done with bombing out weapons manufacturing plants), de-Nato (Zelensky seems to have agreed).

Once the Russians are satisfied, I would not be surprised if, in a few weeks, they declare a ceasefire with objectives met, and walk away from Kyiv.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 26 Mar 2022 09:55

John wrote: If you go back to start of the conflict that’s exactly what I said Russia should have done focus on the east which I got flack from folks here for saying that. Trying to attack whole country with so many different fronts and goals was unreasonable given Russia capability (or lack there of). My assessment was if they don’t take Kyiv within a week they were never going capture it without a very expensive campaign financially & casualty wise (even I didn’t expect this bad).

What they should have focused is on east and kept the other forces stationed in Belarus and Crimea threatening a invasion if Ukraine receives arms or sanctions worsen. Even if that eastern campaign stalls you can still negotiate a deal of some sort recognition for eastern provinces in return for Russian pullout of forces in border and the east.

Ukraine had 6 years to prepare defensive positions in the Donbass, where the bulk of their army is based. That's why it is so difficult to dislodge them now. A `Donbass only' thrust (which is what I expected),would have meant very slow advances, with the Ukrainians feeding in reinforcements and
weapons from NATO into the Donbass front. A thrust on multiple axis forces Ukraine to defend everything and threatens to encircle the Ukrainians in the Donbass, instead of frontal attacks. Of course, that is the theory. The Russians have (in my opinion) been unprepared for a war of this magnitude and managing a war with multiple axis of advance - though we did that in 1971 in Bangladesh.

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 26 Mar 2022 11:35

People forget Russia had to act because Ukranians started making gains in Donbas region. They were getting armed and trained. Drones were getting more effective.
Nowadays, Russia is putting out documents stating that Ukraine was just few weeks away from launching a retake of crimea with NATO help. That would have been a disaster for Russia.
Russia had no intention of conquering whole Ukraine but early days they were eager to force a peace deal. For that reaching kyiv would have helped. So, now both have dug in their current positions. Russia will now simply bomb them to stone age. A wall will come up.

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 26 Mar 2022 11:38

So the arguments move to what were the war goals in order to find out who was victorious.

Oh for the times when a nation could split another into two in a matter of weeks. This making mere definitions of a ‘Win’ inconsequential.

Of course SDREs can’t be expect to either do that or remember that.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 26 Mar 2022 12:12

Seeing Youtube videos of all mainstream Western Media, west has declared victory and Putin is going to deposed in 6 or 7 days. Ukrainians have destroyed the Russian Military and must now kick the Russians out without giving an Inch. All Russian Soldiers are killing their commanders, its Ok for Russian POW's to be brought in front of Camera's to read out Ukrainian statements(who cares about reality)

Meanwhile Ukranians want 500 Javelins and 500 Stinger per day

Somehow I really have a feeling this is how the Germans believed in victory when Goebbels was in charge of media.

All this too me thinks the West will make Ukraine to prolong the war to go for complete victory. Russia even though it has shown capability has soo far not cut out Ukrainian transport links, electricity and even Internet( its not Starlink which is keeping them connected).

This is where I feel Ukraine's could make a mistake, they could make their country into Afghanistan or make peace.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 26 Mar 2022 13:06

Aditya_V wrote:
Somehow I really have a feeling this is how the Germans believed in victory when Goebbels was in charge of media.

Well at least the Wehrmacht was a fine fighting force lead by some fine leaders!

banrjeer · Post by **banrjeer** » 26 Mar 2022 13:25

ManuJ wrote:Russia's original aim was definitely regime change and demilitarization of Ukraine, as stated by none other than Putin himself.
It could not have been achieved without going into Kiev and overthrowing the existing regime.
Russia sacrificed thousands of men and pieces of equipment in pitched battles around Kiev and Kharkhiv.

So yes, this is a massive strategic retreat but of course don't expect them to admit it.

As far as I know regime change was never stated by Russia. The western press claimed that.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 26 Mar 2022 13:28

In other news, there are calls for stopping supply of medicines to Russia as a part of all the things they have banned:

https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/03 ... comments=1

From a so called Western “ethicist” as well.

I don’t think they have considered that a lot of medicines that the world uses, especially their generic equivalents get produced in india, so wonder how effective such a ban can be.

But the point of interest is that it exposes all the standards that people claim they feel morally superior about

banrjeer · Post by **banrjeer** » 26 Mar 2022 13:52

https://twitter.com/minhazmerchant/stat ... 82209?s=21

Pentagon and state dept narratives are at odds. Seen some signs of this earlier

kit · Post by **kit** » 26 Mar 2022 14:09

https://www.fastcompany.com/90731234/ru ... pply-chain

BY TINGLONG DAI5 MINUTE READ
Francis Fukuyama, the American political scientist who once described the collapse of the Soviet Union as the “end of history,” suggested that Russia’s invasion of Ukraine might be called “the end of the end of history.” He meant that Vladimir Putin’s aggression signals a rollback of the ideals of a free Europe that emerged after 1991. Some observers suggest it may kick off a new Cold War, with an Iron Curtain separating the West from Russia.

As an expert in global supply chains, I think the war portends the end of something else: global supply chains that Western companies built after the Berlin Wall fell more than three decades ago.

Supply chains—often vast networks of resources, money, information, and people that companies rely on to get goods or services to consumers—were already in disarray because of the COVID-19 pandemic, resulting in massive shortages, disruptions, and price inflation. The war and resulting sanctions against Russia have immediately put further strains on them, prompting skyrocketing energy prices and even fears of famine.

POINT TO TAKE : INDIA MUST NOT TAKE SIDES IN THIS CONFLICT., ITS ECONOMY IS BIG ENOUGH AND GETTING BIGGER., INDIA MUST PUTS ITS OWN SELF INTERESTS FIRST AND ENGAGE WITH BOTH BLOCKS.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 26 Mar 2022 15:39

Joe Biden is prepared to use nuclear weapons first in “extreme circumstances” after he abandoned plans to drastically water down US policy https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... umstances/