Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 19 Mar 2022 23:17

Manish_Sharma wrote:@rathorekaran17:
Iskander has been widely used in the Russo Ukraine war. Our equivalent is the Prithvi. It will be a work horse tactical missile.

@daeroplate_v2 replies:
Question is how soon can we trickle fund a significant rocket force of pralay prahaar… none have been ordered or approved after a decade of fitful trials. Unless wholesale org reforms are forced by PMO , we will drag our sorry tails in this mode till 2050… nobody cares
We are like a dysfunctional High school where only direct intervention by the headmaster has any impact.

In these 2 tumultous years since 2020 the process of theater cmd, ibg, rocket force has not moved forward. In same 2 yrs even pak has organized and now inducting tons of new kit

Each missile will need lead time for production line setup, command trucks, training … these 2 yrs could have been used to get those in place atleast. I have given up any hope of proactive moves.. we operate in start stop emergency mode only

https://twitter.com/rathorekaran17/stat ... GxFBA&s=19

I think the more important program is the Nirbhaya CM. The kalibr CM has made precision strikes on Lviv airport

kit · Post by **kit** » 19 Mar 2022 23:39

I think a very important force multiplier is the ability to expand production of PGM s in the thousands in war time.. we should create the supplier base and capability to do so "surge production capability"

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 20 Mar 2022 01:27

You fight a war with what you have unless you expect war to run into years which might give you the lead time to produce at war footing. It is far cheaper to maintain stockpiles then it is to maintain excess/surplus unused capacity in the defense industrial base to surge to thousands of PGMs very quickly in war time. It is also far easier to hide, and secure stockpiles then it is to thwart disruptions or even straight up attacks on your defense production during wartime against a capable adversary. Stockpiles also allow you to ramp production more smoothly when needed to make up for depletion of inventory (for example, at its peak, Boeing was producing around 150 JDAM guidance kits a day to replenish stockpiles and to provide for growth). There is a good reason that one of the design requirements of the latest gen. of PGMs is the lifespan to be 2 times or more that of the first gen weapons, with a commensurate reduction in trips to the shop for a life extension. It is a requirement driven by need to stockpile and produce at very high rates.

basant · Post by **basant** » 23 Mar 2022 13:24

Accidental missile launch probe: Group Captain-rank officer to blame?

In its initial stage of investigation into the accidental firing of a supersonic cruise missile that landed in Pakistan earlier this month, the Indian Air Force has reportedly pointed fingers at a Group Captain-rank officer.

However, the probe which is being conducted by an Air Vice Marshal is yet to finalise the report. The officer looks after air operations at the Air Force headquarters.

The investigation is still underway but prima facie it looks like the Group Captain who was in charge of the mobile command post of the missile system as blameworthy, a news agency quoted sources as saying.

The missile was fired accidentally during a Command Air Staff Inspection (CASI) at its home base on March 9.

V_Raman · Post by **V_Raman** » 23 Mar 2022 13:45

Agree 200% with Kit. This war has shown that PGM manufacturing capability more than UAV is very important. PGM + tanks/artillery and associated ammunition.

We seem to have a good enough air force at existing levels and good AD cover already!

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 23 Mar 2022 20:07

basant wrote:Accidental missile launch probe: Group Captain-rank officer to blame?

An accident of this magnitude cannot happen or be attributed to one failed link. This is called the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model. We have various layers of protection, and only if all fail - (i.e. only when the holes in multiple slices of swiss cheese line up correctly) there can be a failure. One individual cannot and should not have the power to cause such an incident. If indeed it is due to one errant (or mistrained, or corrupt, or inebriated - I am not at all implying that Group Capt was any of these, but that individual bad actors do occur in the real world) individual, then the system is broken. If it all gets pinned on one Group Captain, then it is scapegoating. I sincerely hope the probe finds a coincidence of events/individuals rather than one.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 23 Mar 2022 21:56

Command responsibility will result in the group captain getting the sack.

Nothing to do with scape goating.

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 24 Mar 2022 03:16

A ER Brahmos gets tested and not a squeak here.

Really need to test MIRV/A6/K5 to suppress the yawns.

williams · Post by **williams** » 24 Mar 2022 03:42

yensoy wrote:
basant wrote:Accidental missile launch probe: Group Captain-rank officer to blame?
An accident of this magnitude cannot happen or be attributed to one failed link. This is called the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model. We have various layers of protection, and only if all fail - (i.e. only when the holes in multiple slices of swiss cheese line up correctly) there can be a failure. One individual cannot and should not have the power to cause such an incident. If indeed it is due to one errant (or mistrained, or corrupt, or inebriated - I am not at all implying that Group Capt was any of these, but that individual bad actors do occur in the real world) individual, then the system is broken. If it all gets pinned on one Group Captain, then it is scapegoating. I sincerely hope the probe finds a coincidence of events/individuals rather than one.

This is classic DDM reporting. I can imagine the reporter asking some PR babu in DM who would have been in charge of such a mishap and the babu would have said the operations officer of the AFS of the rank of Group Captain and then they report that with some indo-pak masala. If this is a mishap, which is in all likelihood very odd, there will be a thorough investigation of all procedures both human and system and then a conclusion will be made. Things that need to be corrected will be corrected and if there were a lapse in individuals involved some corrective measures will be taken. None of that will be shared and nothing will come out in public. DDMites will move on to regular bollywood programming

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 24 Mar 2022 03:44

Vips wrote:A ER Brahmos gets tested and not a squeak here.

Really need to test MIRV/A6/K5 to suppress the yawns.

(Joke) tests have gotten boring .. we are doing live fire( misfire)

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 24 Mar 2022 10:26

Can we have Nag Missile carriers in this skateboard form as shown in the video at 02:25 ?

ManuJ · Post by **ManuJ** » 24 Mar 2022 10:30

TOI article also points fingers at a Group Captain.

“Human error” rather than “any technical malfunction” was
responsible for the accidental launch of the conventional
(non-nuclear) BrahMos missile from an IAF base in north
India, which could have triggered a retaliation from Pakistan,
as was earlier reported by TOI.

The Group Captain was in-charge of the
of the BrahMos unit when the tactical missile was
launched by mistake during a simulation exercise being
audited.

The court is also
reviewing the standard operating procedures for
“operations, maintenance and inspections” for the BrahMos
missiles.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 406580.cms

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 24 Mar 2022 12:37

Manish_Sharma wrote:Can we have Nag Missile carriers in this skateboard form as shown in the video at 02:25 ?

I this video it some years ago. It's just a fantacy from some teenager with a lot of imagination.

But the US was working on an acoustically tracked and triggered anti tank projectile land mines. But in the over 20 years they have been working on it. They have not yet been able to get it to work.

sajaym · Post by **sajaym** » 24 Mar 2022 14:26

V_Raman wrote:Agree 200% with Kit. This war has shown that PGM manufacturing capability more than UAV is very important. PGM + tanks/artillery and associated ammunition.

We seem to have a good enough air force at existing levels and good AD cover already!

I beg to differ...Ukranian cities are being bombed to dust by the Russians and yet not one brick wall in Russia has been hit by the Ukrainians. So what this war (a big war...not a balakot type strike or kargil type conflict) has shown is that you should have huge stocks of surface to surface missiles to take the war to the enemies capital & cities and cause them similar pain. Recent days have shown that even an unarmed missile fired deep into enemy territory by some trigger happy moron can cause huge takleef.

One of the few good things which happened under Rahul's baap was the IGMDP. Otherwise our jarnails would have still had us importing missiles. So i really hope our SSM stocks will be in the thousands if not already.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 25 Mar 2022 10:39

Indian BVR missile 'Astra' to be completely indigenized by Dec 2027.
Inertial Measurement Unit (IMU), Data Link Receiver & Data Link Transmitter all will be indigeneous.

https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... Jnn3A&s=19

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 25 Mar 2022 18:56

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 022-03-24/

Hope this news does not have much bearing on Indian missiles. All of our missiles from IGMDP program seem very robust with a good CEP as is Bramhos. Not sure how much Russian legacy stuff we still carry. If anything this speaks volume of our designers to not just base the designs on Russian platforms but learn our own lessons and pick our own path.

Some nuggets from the above link

Russian precision-guided missiles are failing up to 60% of the time in Ukraine, three U.S.

Russia has launched more than 1,100 missiles of all kinds since the war began.

Russia's failure rate varied day-to-day, depended on the type of missile being launched, and could sometimes exceed 50%. Two of them said it reached as high as 60%.

Russia's air-launched cruise missiles had a failure rate in the 20% to 60% range, depending on the day.

Russia has been seen fielding two types of air-launched cruise missiles in Ukraine, the Kh-555 and Kh-101,

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 25 Mar 2022 19:28

I am shocked that Russian missile failure rate is not 400% as per some American sources.

As users of the material the forces are well aware of what the performance of the weapons are.

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 25 Mar 2022 19:59

Manish_Sharma wrote:Indian BVR missile 'Astra' to be completely indigenized by Dec 2027.
Inertial Measurement Unit (IMU), Data Link Receiver & Data Link Transmitter all will be indigeneous.

https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... Jnn3A&s=19

So where (which country, company) are these sourced from currently?

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 25 Mar 2022 20:09

Bart S wrote:
Manish_Sharma wrote:Indian BVR missile 'Astra' to be completely indigenized by Dec 2027.
Inertial Measurement Unit (IMU), Data Link Receiver & Data Link Transmitter all will be indigeneous.

https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... Jnn3A&s=19
So where (which country, company) are these sourced from currently?

I'd like to see the source for these assertions. The gent Legate typically copy pastes news reports, without attribution.

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 25 Mar 2022 23:36

I was wondering the same, because IIRC we achieved self-sufficiency in INS systems a long time ago and our products in that segment are said to be world class.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 26 Mar 2022 00:53

FWIW, this is from Dec 2020

https://theprint.in/defence/india-worki ... vy/566699/

For the second version of the Astra missile, called Mark 2, the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is working on dual-pulse rocket motor to extend the range up to 160 km by May 2022, sources in the defence and security establishment told ThePrint.

At present, all subsystems, except the RF seeker and the inertial measurement unit (IMU), are indigenous. The seekers are being indigenised by Bharat Electronics Limited, Bengaluru, and will be inducted by June 2021, sources said, adding that efforts are on for the development of the indigenous IMUs too.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 26 Mar 2022 05:27

Exactly. The datalink Rx/Tx are no great shakes either compared to what we've done with the seeker. Yes, different designs etc but we've handled many complex designs by now.

basant · Post by **basant** » 27 Mar 2022 12:08

Hemant Kumar Rout @TheHemantRout
#JustIn India test fires an advanced version of Medium Range Surface to Air Missile (MRSAM) from a defence facility off Odisha coast. Over 7000 people residing in the close proximity of the facility shifted ahead of the test. Details awaited. @XpressOdisha @NewIndianXpress

11:12 AM · Mar 27, 2022

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 27 Mar 2022 15:57

MRSAM for the IA. 100 Km range. Rout is saying that 1 more round of testing in the afternoon

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 27 Mar 2022 16:44

What is the range and intended role of Akash NG?

Because it seems that the two systems have a considerable overlap in capacity and ranges?

basant · Post by **basant** » 27 Mar 2022 17:32

Rout confirmed that 2nd test was successfully completed.

Second test of MRSAM from Odisha facility successful. The 1st launch was to intercept a medium altitude long range target & 2nd launch was for proving the capability of destroying a low altitude short range target. Aerial targets intercepted at both the ranges.
@NewIndianXpress

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 27 Mar 2022 18:57

Excellent! What are the Indian inputs into the MRSAM?

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 27 Mar 2022 20:30

Launch video of today’s flight test of Army version of Medium Range Surface to Air Missile off the Odisha coast.

https://twitter.com/drdo_india/status/1 ... FvsRGUacTQ

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 28 Mar 2022 11:05

Pratyush wrote:I am shocked that Russian missile failure rate is not 400% as per some American sources.

As users of the material the forces are well aware of what the performance of the weapons are.

Actually the mijjile that phell in TSP was fired from Russia wonlee - they phyrred it from Don Bosco area. Total failure.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 30 Mar 2022 16:50

Meanwhile, MR SAM tested again before being handed to the Army for user trials before induction.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 537707.cms

SinghS · Post by **SinghS** » 30 Mar 2022 17:55

AF and Navy version is already inducted. I am curious about what was the extra requirements of the Army ? I guess it wasn't mobility that MRSAM required separate development?

jaysimha · Post by **jaysimha** » 30 Mar 2022 19:50

TATA Advanced Systems Limited posted this in Linkedin

Tata Advanced Systems Ltd (TASL) produced a missile launcher that was a success in the missile trials held on March 27th for the Medium-Range Surface-to-Air Missile system (MRSAM-Army) at Integrated Test Range (ITR), Chandipur in Odisha.

TATA Advanced Systems Limited (TASL) manufactured the Mobile Launcher System (MLS) for the Indian Army, designed and developed it along with DRDO as a vehicle-mounted platform for launching MRSAM missiles.

The targets were destroyed with a single hit.

John · Post by **John** » 30 Mar 2022 20:08

SinghS wrote:AF and Navy version is already inducted. I am curious about what was the extra requirements of the Army ? I guess it wasn't mobility that MRSAM required separate development?

Looks like extra mobility and side panels to better hide the launcher (make it seem like a transport vehicle), AF version is 12x12. I believe this only has only 6 missiles vs 8 in AF variant, but need confirmation.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Apr 2022 09:09

Megh Updates says 4 NOTAMs issued.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Apr 2022 09:14

NOTAM Area warning notifications issued by India for launch of experimental flight vehicles over Bay Of Bengal.

Date range: 08-16 April.

Some big missile tests coming up next week.

@MeghUpdates

jaysimha · Post by **jaysimha** » 05 Apr 2022 12:20

TATA Advanced Systems Limited

Medium Range Surface-to-Air Missile (MRSAM) Army version successfully launched from TATA built HMV 8X8 on 27th March 2022 at Integrated Test Range (ITR), Chandipur in Odisha. All applications for the MRSAM Army program were mounted on the HMV 8X8

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/tataadva ... esktop_web

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 05 Apr 2022 17:02

John wrote:
SinghS wrote:AF and Navy version is already inducted. I am curious about what was the extra requirements of the Army ? I guess it wasn't mobility that MRSAM required separate development?
Looks like extra mobility and side panels to better hide the launcher (make it seem like a transport vehicle), AF version is 12x12. I believe this only has only 6 missiles vs 8 in AF variant, but need confirmation.

curious why would mobility of a launcher require a separate test, would the flight profile/characteristics change based on launcher??

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 05 Apr 2022 17:46

4 Notam's issued :

One is supposed to be for the 'Pop-Up' test of K5 SLBM.

John · Post by **John** » 05 Apr 2022 18:31

ArjunPandit wrote:
John wrote: Looks like extra mobility and side panels to better hide the launcher (make it seem like a transport vehicle), AF version is 12x12. I believe this only has only 6 missiles vs 8 in AF variant, but need confirmation.
curious why would mobility of a launcher require a separate test, would the flight profile/characteristics change based on launcher??

Yea I suspect it is validate the launch platform doesn’t affect flight characteristics. More than likely they already did individual tests to make sure platform can handle the launch with just the booster. So they may be just making sure when everything is integrated together it still works.

Also i was wrong on # of missile even Army version has 8 missiles which is pretty impressive.

Najunamar · Post by **Najunamar** » 05 Apr 2022 19:02

Just curious, when they do these tests would they use a dummy for the driver just to measure the stresses? Or is it just get the vehicles to a remote place and launch "remotely"?