Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

John · Post by **John** » 27 Mar 2022 13:58

This site passes off Ukrainian tanks as Russian. This is unfair. This is military propaganda.

Can you show me some examples of that?

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 27 Mar 2022 16:22

That site is a bit suspicious. Two unknown Dutch guys suddenly operating a, detailed OSINT blog which hypes up the Bayraktar and they start acting very Turkish themselves, like picking fights on social media, with Indians. Seems to be an IW op a La Bellingcat run by the Turks.

Igorr · Post by **Igorr** » 27 Mar 2022 16:25

John wrote:
This site passes off Ukrainian tanks as Russian. This is unfair. This is military propaganda.
Can you show me some examples of that?

url1 url2 url3 all lack the Russian tactical sign (V, Z or O). So it cannot be Russian or DNR/LNR.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 27 Mar 2022 16:28

Ukraine ready to unleash new baguette-sized bombs with six-mile range on Russian troops
Joe Biden, the US president, will supply Ukraine with 100 Switchblade weapons at a cost of around £600 million

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... ile-range/

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 27 Mar 2022 17:08

The alternate story is that Ukraine, trained and equipped by the west for years, amassed their forces into a large attack formation in front of Donbass and were just days away from launching their offensive to regain control of the breakaway territories. Russia beat them to it and launched a counter offensive from multiple directions to break apart Ukrainian forces organised in attack formations like a shaped charge pointing at Donbass, by threatening Kyiv, Kharkov, Mariupol and the southern coast.

Ukrainian forces where obliged to reorient their forces to face off Russian army in various areas spread across the length and breadth of the country else risk Kyiv and Kharkov falling and Russian forces encircling them from behind, cutting off supplies and trapping them. Since the Ukr Army has reoriented on expected lines, Russians are just holding them there, encircling Kyiv but not attacking it directly, ditto in other areas, a large contingent blocked defending Odessa but the Russians are in no hurry to attack there.

RA has corraled UkrA units, especially Azov battalions etc into pockets/cities in the east and attacked their supply lines, ammunition and oil depots. The UkrA forces there had no choice but to get into cities to shelter from air arracks and are hoping to defeat RA in urban battles. In this scenario, time favours RA, they can be resupplied but UkrA can't, and in Mariupol where they have concentrated, they are running out of fuel, ammunition, food and water and have to fight till the last man, which is exactly what Russia wants to Denazify Ukraine.

Elsewhere having established air superiority RAF has destroyed Ukrainian aircraft, tank and other military manufacturing facilities, logistics depots effectively progressing towards demilitarisation. Russian Army has taken a lot more casualties than they needed to because they consciously avoided bombing cities to rubble in order to minimise civilian casualties, and agreeing to open escape corridors for civilians. Its claimed that Ukrainian Army units were not allowing civilians to leave and shot those who tried, especially in the east.

Realising that a military defeat of Ukraine is inevitable in the coming weeks, western media and Bidenwa et al have started talking in high pitch about how Russia is actually losing this war and that Putin the killer, the dictator, the tyrant, the madman, the monster will therefore go to any lengths now. They are now saying the "red line" for nato to enter the fray directly is Russia using bio/chemical/nuclear weapons. They may even do a false flag operation near Kyiv or in Poland to pin the blame on Russia and use the massive wave of public horror that it would generate to launch an all out offensive to end Russia as we know it.

Bidenwa visiting EU, Poland and giving pep talks to US troops stationed there is not just another visit, its to assess what chances if any Ukraine has to win this conflict, or at least enforce a stalemate; and rally unquestioning support for US lead for the next turn of events. US knows that once the next phase starts, there is a risk that these iddlypiddly EU countries will get strokes of conscience or chicken out, thats why so much public emphasis on UNITED NATO. Europe as a whole is being led by the nose into this nightmare and sadly they are too blind, too stupid, too scared, and too powerless to do anything else but go along the Unkil pied piper.

Take all of this as you wish, but this conflict is reaching a very dangerous phase where nothing good is going to come out of it for anyone.

John · Post by **John** » 27 Mar 2022 18:55

Igorr wrote:
John wrote: Can you show me some examples of that?
url1 url2 url3 all lack the Russian tactical sign (V, Z or O). So it cannot be Russian or DNR/LNR.

Can you let me know what variant I can try to see thru social media and see where they are from.

I was critical of his work during Azb-Armenia conflict but ultimately he ended up being right. As he was able to capture Armenian and Azerbaijan losses closely while social media seemed to portraying an Armenian victory his data showed otherwise and ultimately was right.

The alternate story is that Ukraine, trained and equipped by the west for years, amassed their forces into a large attack formation in front of Donbass and were just days away from launching their offensive to regain control of the breakaway territories.

Hardly this is one most watched areas in the world in terms of SAT imaging and Ukrainian side showed no evidence of that in fact they were digging in further in anticipation of Russian offensive there. And they few units prepared to assist the defensive line from Kyiv and Kherson.

One of biggest blunder on Ukrainian side was they didn’t listen to western Intel warnings of all full out invasion and still where anticipating an attack only in eastern side.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 27 Mar 2022 19:15

@Chellaney:

In the first 24 days of the war, Russia had "flown some 1,400 strike sorties and delivered almost 1,000 missiles (by contrast, the United States flew more sorties and delivered more weapons in the first day of the 2003 Iraq war)."
https://twitter.com/Chellaney/status/15 ... Y6L6w&s=19

______________________

https://www.newsweek.com/putins-bombers ... hy-1690494

Putin's Bombers Could Devastate Ukraine But He's Holding Back. Here's Why

BY WILLIAM M. ARKIN 3/22/22

Igorr · Post by **Igorr** » 27 Mar 2022 19:55

John wrote:
Igorr wrote: url1 url2 url3 all lack the Russian tactical sign (V, Z or O). So it cannot be Russian or DNR/LNR.
Can you let me know what variant I can try to see thru social media and see where they are from.

I was critical of his work during Azb-Armenia conflict but ultimately he ended up being right. As he was able to capture Armenian and Azerbaijan losses closely while social media seemed to portraying an Armenian victory his data showed otherwise and ultimately was right.

The alternate story is that Ukraine, trained and equipped by the west for years, amassed their forces into a large attack formation in front of Donbass and were just days away from launching their offensive to regain control of the breakaway territories.
Hardly this is one most watched areas in the world in terms of SAT imaging and Ukrainian side showed no evidence of that in fact they were digging in further in anticipation of Russian offensive there. And they few units prepared to assist the defensive line from Kyiv and Kherson.

One of biggest blunder on Ukrainian side was they didn’t listen to western Intel warnings of all full out invasion and still where anticipating an attack only in eastern side.

They were preparing themselves to attack the republics of Donbass, and therefore concentrated there. They themselves are to blame. Putin's blow was preemptive.

As for tanks, you yourself can easily find tanks without V, Z or 0 signs in this list. Most of them are there. I don’t know about Azerbaijan and Armenia, but without visible signs about the ownership of the tanks they brought in, one can only guess. He simply has no way to know this, since there are no carefully described stories, especially such a number of them (more than 1000).

Look at the episode in which an unmodernized DPR tank withstands 4 hits from a vaunted Western grenade launcher and does not explode. The crew left the tank, but was shot with small arms.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 27 Mar 2022 22:38

John wrote:Hardly this is one most watched areas in the world in terms of SAT imaging

Come on man. Ukraine was trying to invade and Russia managed to amass 200K troops, deny that they are planning offensive ops, and invade before those territories can be invaded by Ukraine. A defensive counter invasion. I'm sure there's heaps of satellite and other imagery to support that assertion.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 27 Mar 2022 22:47

He’s talking about Ukr taking over Donbas region entirely. Area around Luhansk and Donetsk. That part is plausible. Not invading Russia proper.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 27 Mar 2022 22:52

I know what he is talking about. Ukraine must have seen the Russian build up of 200K troops and decided that it was the best time to invade those regions. Or Ukraine must have had the slowest invasion build up in history that allowed the other side to detect it,and amass nearly 200K troops on their western border and in Belarus and counter invade to thwart its plans. All plausible and I'm sure grounded with heaps of evidence.

Igorr · Post by **Igorr** » 27 Mar 2022 23:34

They planed to attack Crimea too. They didnt want to agree with political reality and common sence...
Sometimes another point of view will not be excessive. Scott Ritter on Russia's actions and plans for the future

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 27 Mar 2022 23:48

brar_w wrote:I know what he is talking about. Ukraine must have seen the Russian build up of 200K troops and decided that it was the best time to invade those regions. Or Ukraine must have had the slowest invasion build up in history that allowed the other side to detect it,and amass nearly 200K troops on their western border and in Belarus and counter invade to thwart its plans. All plausible and I'm sure grounded with heaps of evidence.

I don't think you get it. Since 2014, Ukr military was about 110,000 and has been ramping up with independent national guard battalions, such as the Azov battalion, and the flow of material into the country from the west. Lots of Ukr nationals have become wealthy in the last 8 years or so skimming off this sale/trade - but that's another side topic. Total strength of ground forces are nearly 200,000 with nearly 20,000 mercenaries and "advisors" in Ukr. The US has been goading them into conflict since the Maidan revolution, and as such both Obama, Trump & Xiden administrations have been providing aid and material for this conflict. NATO is running Ukr CC and providing JISR from Poland, and in many instances is coordinating strikes on Ru armor and logistics. The hit day-before-yesterday on a Ru munitions landing ship near the port of Mariupol was well coordinated and was hit with a short range SSM. Without having Ukr CC dispersed in Poland, Romania or Slovakia, the Ru forces would have knocked it out a month later.

There is a lot of similarities between the Ru and Ukr forces on their level of competence, and this conflict appears to be driven by the US/NATO against Russian aggression. It is more a direct proxy war which has the danger of escalating.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 28 Mar 2022 00:00

Mort Walker wrote:
I don't think you get it.

That’s probably it.

John · Post by **John** » 28 Mar 2022 00:26

Anyway looks like Ukraine is increasing starting to use mines and ied, I noticed Russian tanks don’t have any mine ploughs. Here is Russian soldier/separatists discussing lose of their tanks to mines

https://twitter.com/osinttechnical/stat ... l7dgwNRLLA

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 28 Mar 2022 00:32

The US has been goading them into conflict since the Maidan revolution, and as such both Obama, Trump & Xiden administrations have been providing aid and material for this conflict. NATO is running Ukr CC and providing JISR from Poland, and in many instances is coordinating strikes on Ru armor and logistics.

this conflict appears to be driven by the US/NATO against Russian aggression. It is more a direct proxy war which has the danger of escalating.

To me, it seems that US/NATO goal is not UKs victory nor is Russias defeat, but the goal is to bleed Russia as much as possible. The longer this goes, the deeper Russia sinks and that’s their aim. By all estimates, Russia has been pushed back by a decade because of this conflict and US/NATO will fight Russia till the last Ukrainian.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 28 Mar 2022 00:50

There has been really no reports on Ukr CC a month into this conflict. Ukr forces are spread out and encircled in several instances. How are they managing to hold on? The only way this happens is that NATO is handling Ukr CC. The Ru probably know this and also fear an escalation. It is one reason why various US govt. talking heads are suggesting a Ukr victory.

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 28 Mar 2022 01:03

Bloomberg on the economic costs of the war for Russia:

Russia Seen on Course for Deep Two-Year Recession, 20% Inflation

Russia Seen on Course for Deep Two-Year Recession, 20% Inflation
Economy will contract 9.6% in 2022, 1.5% in 2023, survey shows Inflation seen at 20% this year, forcing rates to stay high

25 March 2022, 08:38 GMT
Russia’s economy is on course to contract in two consecutive years for the first time since the collapse that followed the Soviet breakup three decades ago, according to a Bloomberg survey.

As President Vladimir Putin’s war in Ukraine enters its second month, the dire economic costs are becoming clear after the invasion spurred a multitude of sanctions and prompted companies to pull out of the country.

Gross domestic product will shrink 9.6% in 2022 and contract 1.5% in 2023, according to Blooomberg’s poll of 24 analysts conducted March 18-23. Before the attack on Ukraine in late February, the economy was on track to expand for a second year.

In another stark revision of outlook, inflation is now forecast to average 20% this year, which would be the fastest in about two decades. The central bank will have to maintain its key interest rate at 20% at least until the end of the second quarter, the survey showed.

The invasion of Ukraine spurred a collapse of the ruble and threw global supply chains and commodities prices into chaos, while also sparking the mass departure of companies from the country. To punish Russia, foreign governments slapped sanctions on trade and finance, froze the reserves of its central bank and cut many of its banks from the SWIFT global messaging system.

Russia has sought to insulate its economy and markets with capital controls, a doubling of interest rates and other emergency measures, all of which will hurt growth.

And this one:

Putin’s war seen wiping out 15 years of Russian economic growth

Putin’s war seen wiping out 15 years of Russian economic growth

Russia is set to erase 15 years of economic gains by the end of 2023 after its invasion of Ukraine spurred a multitude of sanctions and prompted companies to pull out of the country, according to the Institute of International Finance.

The economy is expected to contract 15 per cent in 2022, followed by a decline of 3 per cent in 2023, leaving gross domestic product where it was about fifteen years ago, economists Benjamin Hilgenstock and Elina Ribakova wrote in a preliminary assessment of the impact of the war, noting that further sanctions may change their view.

“Sharply lower domestic demand is likely to play a crucial role while a collapse in imports should offset lower exports, leading to a marginally-positive contribution from net foreign demand,” the economists wrote. “However, should further sanctions in the form of trade embargos be implemented, exports might fall more than we currently forecast.”

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine last month spurred a collapse of the ruble and threw global supply chains and commodities prices into chaos, while also sparking the mass departure of companies from the country. French automaker Renault SA is among the latest firms to pull out, announcing that it will halt operations at its Moscow plant and saying is considering the future of a longstanding Russian venture called AvtoVaz.

Even after the immediate hit to Russia’s economy, the economy will suffer for years to come from a so-called “brain drain” -- the exodus of educated, middle class Russians with the financial means to leave the country -- and from U.S. and EU export controls on technology, including microelectronics, which will hinder technological development in Russia for years, according to the IIF.

At the same time, “self-sanctioning” by foreign companies which no longer want to do business with Russia will lead to a weakening of important sectors of the Russian economy, the report said.

“The negative effect on medium- and long-term economic prospects could be even more important,” the IIF economists wrote.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 28 Mar 2022 01:09

What happened to all the molotov cocktails wielding people and commoners to whom Zelinsky distributed AK74s in a heavily mediatised move a month ago? Are these civilians scoring a lot of kills on Russian vehicles and soldiers? And all the volunteer fighters from NATO countries mostly, have they made a considerable impact?

John · Post by **John** » 28 Mar 2022 02:08

Cyrano wrote:What happened to all the molotov cocktails wielding people and commoners to whom Zelinsky distributed AK74s in a heavily mediatised move a month ago? Are these civilians scoring a lot of kills on Russian vehicles and soldiers? And all the volunteer fighters from NATO countries mostly, have they made a considerable impact?

Regarding the armed civilians they are more of a nuisance on Russian supply lines see a video of couple attacks a day on Russian trucks. Atleast from recent videos I have seen most often the trucks travel alone and civilians seem to stand in road with a gun often enough to get the Russian driver to surrender and walk away or get captured.

Have seen very few Molotov attacks in the past week.

Volunteers appear to be present even in recent Ukr offensive (I seen a volunteer from Belarus who has become quite popular with folks) but I don’t think there is enough there to be a game changer.

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 28 Mar 2022 04:26

Ukraine was indeed making gains in donbas region creating alarms in Russia. Next would have been crimiea. So, Russia had to act.

On the economy side, there is definitely a big shock, but I think they will survive well enough. All these disaster scenarios projected by western analysts are to cause alarm and create a downward spiral.

I would wait to see European response to demand of payments in rubles for gas and oil.

Also, we need to see once is over in a month or two, whether there would be any relaxation of sanctions. If there are, to what extent. Russia is too important a country to be isolated for long.

If US can prolong this war for a decade, they would do it.

banrjeer · Post by **banrjeer** » 28 Mar 2022 06:15

https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/larry-c-jo ... is-mop-up/

Another perspective on operations. Tanks were extremely vulnerable but hardly got any counter attacks.

John · Post by **John** » 28 Mar 2022 06:35

banrjeer wrote:https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/larry-c-jo ... is-mop-up/

Another perspective on operations. Tanks were extremely vulnerable but hardly got any counter attacks.

Ukraine’s ability to launch significant military operations had been eliminated.

Not sure where the author is getting at with this quote. They actively bombarded Kherson airport and then launched offensive looks like UA forces are 20 miles from Kherson. The video from recent offensives in Trostyanets & Husarivka show they are launching operations in multiple fronts as well.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 28 Mar 2022 11:00

Cyrano wrote:Realising that a military defeat of Ukraine is inevitable in the coming weeks, western media and Bidenwa et al have started talking in high pitch about how Russia is actually losing this war and that Putin the killer, the dictator, the tyrant, the madman, the monster will therefore go to any lengths now. They are now saying the "red line" for nato to enter the fray directly is Russia using bio/chemical/nuclear weapons. They may even do a false flag operation near Kyiv or in Poland to pin the blame on Russia and use the massive wave of public horror that it would generate to launch an all out offensive to end Russia as we know it.

Bidenwa visiting EU, Poland and giving pep talks to US troops stationed there is not just another visit, its to assess what chances if any Ukraine has to win this conflict, or at least enforce a stalemate; and rally unquestioning support for US lead for the next turn of events. US knows that once the next phase starts, there is a risk that these iddlypiddly EU countries will get strokes of conscience or chicken out, thats why so much public emphasis on UNITED NATO. Europe as a whole is being led by the nose into this nightmare and sadly they are too blind, too stupid, too scared, and too powerless to do anything else but go along the Unkil pied piper.

Take all of this as you wish, but this conflict is reaching a very dangerous phase where nothing good is going to come out of it for anyone.

If this happens (the bolded part), we are seeing the beginnings of WW3, period. And it will be nuclear - on a major scale, across EU and possibly the US. The Russkis have no choice - the nuke option is the only deterrent they have, conventionally they can't hope to match NATO. BTW do you have a link for that red line bit - who is saying this, couldn't find it.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 28 Mar 2022 14:13

The red line bit was in a news report on France24 tv channel when someone from US was interviewed. will try to dig it up.

The latest news snippet from The Guardian:

Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, used a video interview with independent Russian media outlets to signal his willingness to discuss having Ukraine adopt a “neutral status”, and also make compromises about the status of the eastern Donbas region, in order to secure a peace agreement with Russia. But he said he was not willing to discuss Ukrainian demilitarisation, and that Ukrainians would need to vote in a referendum to approve their country adopting a neutral status.

Contrast this beginning of surrender with Ukr Army statement :
https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.u ... 9234094162

The operational update regarding the #russian_invasion on 24.00 on March 27, 2022.
The thirty-second day of the heroic resistance of the Ukrainian people to the russian military invasion is coming to an end.
The russian enemy continues to move additional units from the Pacific Fleet and the Western Military District in order to continue the full-scale armed aggression against Ukraine. At the same time, there is a significant decrease in the intensity of moving from the depths of the russian federation.
In the Volyn direction there is a high probability of involvement of the armed forces of the republic of belarus in the aggression against Ukraine. Air reconnaissance continues in the areas of Kovel, Varash, Sarny. Transportation of rockets to the "Iskander" (9K720 Iskander (SS-26 Stone) - a mobile short range ballistic missile system by the transportation road to the area of the settlement of Kalinkovichi is recorded.
The russian enemy did not carry out active offensive operations in the Polissya direction. The regrouping of individual units from the Eastern Military District continues. Units that have suffered significant losses in the course of offensive operations are usually deployed to belarus to restore combat capability. Thus, the withdrawal of up to 2 BTGs from the 106th Airborne Division from the territory of the Kyivov oblast to the territory of the republic of belarus is noted.
The russian occupiers continue to launch missile and air strikes on important military infrastructure and first line positions in order to inflict losses and deplete personnel.
The russian enemy did not carry out offensive operations in the Siversky direction. It focused its efforts on consolidating and maintaining the previously occupied borders.
In the Slobozhansky direction, the enemy abandoned the offensive near the city of Sumy, trying to regroup and withdraw units to other directions. Thus, one of the BTGs from the 1st Tank Army of the russian enemy, which was involved in hostilities, was fully withdrawn from Ukraine to the territory of the russian federation.
The occupiers continued to strike at infrastructure facilities in Kharkiv. In the direction of the city of Izyum, russian enemy tried to conduct offensive operations.
In the Donetsk direction, the enemy focused its efforts on taking control of the settlements of Popasna, Rubizhne and entering the Novotroitsky district, as well as capturing the city of Mariupol, but without success.
The enemy carried out artillery and mortar shelling of the settlements of Toretske, Svitlodarsk, Troitskoye, and Pisky.
The main goal of the occupiers remains to reach the administrative borders of Donetsk and Luhansk regions.
In the Tavriya direction, Rosguard units continue to carry out filtration measures in the temporarily occupied territories in the Kherson region.
In the South Buh direction, the enemy's position and actions remained unchanged.
The Armed Forces of Ukraine continue to inflict significant losses on the russian enemy. According to available information, over the past five days, about 600 bodies of servicemen killed in Ukraine have been brought to the military garrisons of the Nizhny Novgorod region, most of whom served in the 47th Tank Division of the 1st Tank Army of the Western Military District.
Let's win together! Glory to Ukraine!

What UkrA is not speaking about is the state of its own forces. Its conceivable that while the RA has taken a pause during the weekend to rest and re-equip, rotate its combat forces, assess progress and redeploy its forces as needed, and support all that from the forward depots in depth of its own territory the UkrA is unable to do the same since they have been boxed in in key cities and their resupplies of fuel, ammo, food & water are scarce.

Zelinsky is perhaps being advised to
A: Buy time using negotiations for a few days until NATO figures out a way to resupply UkrA troops under siege - but what are their chances of holding out another week/2 weeks ?
B: Cut losses and negotiate to live and fight another day

If Russia is sensing that victory is near, they will continue to negotiate on one hand and pursue total decimation of UkrA units like Azov, sector right etc and attack military installations all over to make the achievement of their objectives complete.

Where does this leave US, NATO and EU's credibility ? from the guardian:

US president Joe Biden has denied he is calling for regime change in Russia, after he said during a visit to Poland that Vladimir Putin “cannot remain in power”. When asked by a reporter if he wanted to see the Russian president removed from office, he said “no”. The French president, Emmanuel Macron, had already distanced himself from Biden’s comments, while the UK cabinet minister Nadhim Zahawi distanced the UK government from his remarks.

Macron is quoted by Lemonde to have said "Leaving Russia must be the personal decision of each individual French enterprise".

Can we conclude that US President's Europe visit has achieved way more than his VP's visit a few days ago?

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 29 Mar 2022 01:00

Bloomberg on the economic costs of the war for Russia:

Aww ... The Economy is just a social construct, isn't it?

bala · Post by **bala** » 29 Mar 2022 04:19

Looks like Mariupol is in Russian hands.

Mariupol lies on Ukraine's southern coast between the separatist-controlled Donbas region and the Crimean Peninsula, which Russia annexed in 2014. Capturing Mariupol would be Russia's largest victory of the war. "[W]e are in the hands of the occupiers today," said Mariupol Mayor Vadym Boichenko in a televised interview on Monday. Boichenko, who is no longer in the city, also said that Russia's siege of Mariupol has killed nearly 5,000 people and that 160,000 people remain trapped in the city without clean water or electricity. Mariupol had a pre-invasion population of over 400,000. Valeriia, a 20-year-old student from Mariupol, said electricity, internet access, water and heating had been cut off on March 2.

John · Post by **John** » 29 Mar 2022 04:47

^ Not even Russians are calling it yet, the mayor is been trying to get Ukraine forces to come help out for a while.

Jayram · Post by **Jayram** » 29 Mar 2022 10:29

Appropriate for this thread.
A good but edited video of a Russian BUK being spotted by drone and being taken out by some missile even after moving after detection. Lots of lesson for future wars for IA. Surely there is someone watching over Bharatmata with these invaluable lessons of Russian technology and tactics being exposed with heavy help from unkle of course.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 30 Mar 2022 14:39

@Khadaga_Charma:

All the wars are fought on objectives. Optics aside, list out what was the objective behind this was and then analyse what Russia has attained. IMHO the biggest loser in US of A while Ukrainistan lies in tatters. Crimea, Zhaporezhiye, Donbas, Luhansk are gone for good.

Infrastructure lies in shambles. They were doing the ethnocide of ethnic Russians. This has stopped completely. NATO has been proved helpless before the bear. Western economic hegemony challenged in a big way. Rouble trading near normal against dollar and euro.

When everything subsides, this joker kid will be facing an extremely angry mob in his own country. India showed spine against the western pontification. The russis only used 1.08 lac troups against Ukristani 3lacs. To annexe a country you need 1:3 advantage. Yet vast tracts are

occupied by Russia. What do you think of it? Losing or winning? Russia keeps its best to fight a war another day. Russia did not lose anything apart from a few planes and tanks and helos. Dont go by the no that they have lost 100s. These shenanigans are coming from the known...

quarters. Have you seen how the pincer is taking shape around Chernigov and Kharkov? What they are doing is encircling the big cities and no arms, no ammo and no fuel can ever reach, all the while overrunning the country side and small cities and ponding the encircled area with..

everything. Have you ever seen a blackjack or a bear or a backfire doing some strategic bombing? Its only some Su-34s, Su-25s and Su-24s and some Ka-52s. Do not go by the optics. Think.

https://twitter.com/Khadga_Charma/statu ... K3vpw&s=19

John · Post by **John** » 30 Mar 2022 18:52

occupied by Russia. What do you think of it? Losing or winning? Russia keeps its best to fight a war another day. Russia did not lose anything apart from a few planes and tanks and helos. Dont go by the no that they have lost 100s. These shenanigans are coming from the known..

There is fine line between delusion and skepticism. Consider all that is documented how can you deny the losses. You can make a case Russia can absorb it or some of them may be miscategorized but saying everything is fake just to fit your narrative is something else.

Have you ever seen a blackjack or a bear or a backfire doing some strategic bombing? Its only some Su-34s, Su-25s and Su-24s and some Ka-52s. Do not go by the optics. Think

If Su-34s are getting shot down you think Tu-22m/Tu-160 can do any bombing runs?? Former is already being utilized in launching stand-off attacks. In current battlefield if enemy has SAM systems operational doing strategic bombing without PGM is highly risky.

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 31 Mar 2022 03:03

Russians have not had it easy. That is for sure. To say they are losing is not taking it too far, since that is not what is happening on ground. Agreed that Information and media war is one sided.

Russians are dismantling a threat systematically. If they had waited longer, the cost would have been even more.

Ukrainians have been preparing for this war for past 8 years. US and UK have been testing out their tactics using Ukrainians. They are well entrenched in all the expected places of attack. To clear a city without destroying it and killing civilians is not easy. Ukrainians have not covered themselves in glory by using civilians as shields.

I'm not sure what victory zelensky expects. A country destroyed, its citizens scattered across as refugees, more parts of country lost for ever. Just the glory of stalling the inevitable and making available the russian performance metrics to west. Thanks to Ukraine, modern world knows a new modern warfare.

Zelensky will survive since he has US citizenship and US will take care of him. What more can you expect from a person than one who has sacrificed a country?

John · Post by **John** » 31 Mar 2022 04:00

Ukrainians have been preparing for this war for past 8 years. US and UK have been testing out their tactics using Ukrainians. They are well entrenched in all the expected places of attack.

Preparations for what war? They been focused mainly on the east and that is where they are entrenched. They have no fortifications in north or south and didn’t even bother mining the area inspite of western Intel or throwing up defensive line ( leading to hasty defense on highway out of Kherson).

In fact based on RT report most southern forces where still in there barracks sleeping by Kherson when Russians had crossed over and only few miles from them ( causing many to flee and base was captured without a shot fired ).

As for equipment they definitely where not gearing up to fight Russia head on. In terms of military acquisitions they rank not even top 40 over past decade, their military spending is small inspite of huge amount spend to maintain their defense in the east.

They have no AshM (which would have been ideal and attempts to purchase Neptune where rejected by Ukr parliament for past 2 years) which would have deterred the Russian navy blockade. No standoff missiles other than some obsolete Tochka missile. Few squadron of ACs that are unupgraded and obsolete.

SAMs and radars are mostly Cold War relics and only now ironically they were planning to fix and upgrade their S-300s. Their main plus is the large # of Soviet era armor, apc and artillery but lot of them are obsolete and in operational, plus all which won’t do you any good when faced against opponent with air superiority.

In no way where they prepared for any confrontation. You can make a case due to corruption and ineptness they didn’t prepare for what in hindsight is pretty obvious.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 31 Mar 2022 10:25

If you listen to what the US is saying. Then NATO was training 5 batallion of Ukrainian forces per year to NATO standards.

This is not a small force by any stretch of imagination.

Add to that the regular supplies of leathel aid to Ukraine. Ukraine has been able to punch much above it's weight. You can agree or disagree about Ukrainian preparation.

But they are quite well equipped to fight an asymmetric war with Russia.

However, I believe that Russia has achieved the objectives they had at the start of the conflict.

Will they be able to hold on to the gains in the future is a question mark. In the face of Ukrainian intransigence.

Which is why I am not optimistic about any Ukrainian overtures towards peace with Russia working. Because Ukraine thinks that Russia has not defeated it. For peace to have a chance, Ukraine has to know that Russia is a clear and undisputed winner. Which is why the west is so intent on destroying Russia as a viable economy.

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 31 Mar 2022 12:35

John wrote:
Ukrainians have been preparing for this war for past 8 years. US and UK have been testing out their tactics using Ukrainians. They are well entrenched in all the expected places of attack.
Preparations for what war?

There are plenty of videos of how NATO has been preparing them. Here is one on airforce. Of course, they are not fully prepared yet... but had they been given more time, Russians would have had it even tougher.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 31 Mar 2022 13:58

vinod wrote:
John wrote: Preparations for what war?
There are plenty of videos of how NATO has been preparing them. Here is one on airforce. Of course, they are not fully prepared yet... but had they been given more time, Russians would have had it even tougher.

Is this not normal combat training?
What does preparation for war mean?

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 31 Mar 2022 17:25

check out my post in the Ukraine thread in the other forum

John · Post by **John** » 31 Mar 2022 20:24

Information on Russian Barnaul-T system. Never even knew such a thing existed.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4 ... se-systems

KrishnaK · Post by **KrishnaK** » 31 Mar 2022 21:53

Pratyush wrote:If you listen to what the US is saying. Then NATO was training 5 batallion of Ukrainian forces per year to NATO standards.

This is not a small force by any stretch of imagination.

The NATO/US also trained the Afghans and Iraqis, not to mention the Pakis back in the day, for a very long time. The Russian invasion isn't going well at all in spite of their massive superiority. Some folks just don't want to accept that.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 31 Mar 2022 22:25

*Real* combat capability comes from effective doctrine, training, morale, materials, logistics and several other tangible and intangibles. As others have noted, beyond a few things that NATO or US could help with (training, tactics and helping with C2) rest of their equipment and much of their doctrine goes back to FSU days. This across systems that you’d need to fend off an invasion - armor, air defense, anti ship capacity, mining, fixed or rotary wing crafts and weapons. They aren’t fighting with heavy NATO or US gear beyond ATGM , MANPAD and other recent capability that they haven’t had in scale for eight years.