Sri Lanka - News and Discussion- Post PM appointment crisis

[Dilbu]

That article is more like a facebook post without enough research or points to back the opinion it puts forth. It is a bad idea to begin with and the last thing India would want is to boost the image its rivals propagate, that of a regional hegemon trying to swallow up its neighbours at a moment of distress.

[chetak]

what will we do with their war criminals' infested and racist SL army

what of their parliament and social structures

their political, cultural and social ethe/ethea are very different

best to let sleeping dogs lie in the hope that in the fullness of time, they will die in their sleep

I agree with the issues you have posted. I do not agree with the article - just posted it as an FYI.

But I am concerned with the situation India finds itself in. If we do not do anything we run the risk of pushing the SriLankans further into the embrace of the Chinese. If we do help them there is no guarantee the money will be used for pulling up the SL economy. There is no way to prevent one of the RajaPaksa family from coming up with another one of their "environmentally sound" schemes on a whim. It appears that we find ourself between a rock and a hard place.

India has a default and major trust deficit issue in SL.

The majority sinhala hate us because we are needlessly vocal about tamil issues, the tamils hate us because per them, India hasn't done "anything" for them. Each side is certain that we are in collusion with the other and we are the enemy

the crafty white robed dravidians have played their weak hand very well indeed and that has kept the center bamboozled and confused.

just look at what the dravidians are openly doing in TN. sedition is too mild a word to be used for what is going down in the name of "constitutionally guaranteed freedoms"

the rajapaksa family is merely the symptom and not the root cause of the disease per se

[chetak]

That article is more like a facebook post without enough research or points to back the opinion it puts forth. It is a bad idea to begin with and the last thing India would want is to boost the image its rivals propagate, that of a regional hegemon trying to swallow up its neighbours at a moment of distress.

Dilbu ji

It will needlessly feed the egos of a lot of crackpots and conspiracy theorists, appearing as it did in a RW magazine/webportal

the very idea is distasteful, repulsive, and abhorrent.

the people who run this show need their heads examined as they are in serious need of urgent psychiatric care to even allow such hurtful ideas to be aired.

[rsingh]

Our problem is 99 years lease. Point. We were sleeping when deal was signed. Solve this problem. We had to threaten Lanka at that time (with boots on ground). How come we let it go? try to get land on lease in Vietnam And then see how China reacts. As far as Lank being different culturally my foot. We have different culture evey 100 km. What are we talking about. Once it is in Indian Union it will become lin TamilNadu within 10 years.

[chetak]

Our problem is 99 years lease. Point. We were sleeping when deal was signed. Solve this problem. We had to threaten Lanka at that time (with boots on ground). How come we let it go? try to get land on lease in Vietnam And then see how China reacts. As far as Lank being different culturally my foot. We have different culture evey 100 km. What are we talking about. Once it is in Indian Union it will become lin TamilNadu within 10 years.

They are कट्टरपंथी buddhists and vehemently do not identify with the dravidians in particular, or even India in general. they never have and never will

No, we are not culturally different every 100 kms like you say but are culturally rooted with influences and diversities that manifest in minor variations in ritualistic and social expression, and still remain identifiable as a connected part of the whole.

our languages have regional influences that are today's dialects and our local cuisines were often influenced by the various armies, traders and migrants who have left their indelible marks when assimilating or just passing through over the centuries.

And, at the end of the day, we are still majorly Hindu in ethos and belief systems while the SLs are not part of this edifying milieu.

even the great soooperpoower amerikis had/have their major limitations and were shown up so spectacularly in afghanistan and ukraine. The once invincible amerikis are unravelling almost uncontrollably

the cheeni are sitting quietly in ladakh because they have serious limitations

NATO turned out to be a collection of b@!!le$$ wonders with serious limitations. Putin knew that from the start.

So, it's not surprising at all that dharmic India has her limitations too

In any all out confrontation, we don't have the might to take on the cheeni without getting mauled badly as indeed the cheenis will also undoubtedly get badly mauled as well. Both xi and Modi will take a hit, xi much more than modi, for sure.

The cheenis may well come off second best but we will still have a major setback which we can ill afford at any time, especially at an important phase, when focussed single minded as Modi is, on nation building.

per what the sinhala did, it was their sovereign state decision. we protested and warned them but after all that, here we are, giving them billions because they knew exactly which buttons to push

India is very allergic to any boots on the ground because of cowboy ghandhy. Govts are more than likely to fall if any fiasco results

we are like that onlee.

[Anoop]

https://youtu.be/UDPqs9ALPug

Salient points from this report from SL:

1. SL govt accepts that an IMF bailout will be necessary and that they can't rely on bilateral loans, even to service the 1.2 billion dollar sovereign debt that is due in a couple of months.

2. The situation for the public is very dire - as seen by the long queues even for cooking gas.

3. BIMSTEC is gathering pace, with roles being identified for members nations.

4. EAM met Opposition parties as well.

[KL Dubey]

BhikshAm sharaNam gachhAmi....shIghram maraNam gachhAmi....

This would have been the condition of India..or much worse... if it had turned boodist a thousand years ago.

[chetak]

One suspects that nobody in the woke universe wants to bring up the disastrous agricultural policies designed by a failed, dangerously incompetent and deranged Indian leftist and the situation being further aggravated by the on going chinese debt-trap situation, even as the lankan people starve there. This is a double whammy that has hit the lankans very badly and yet they may not be aware of all the ramifications still playing/yet to be played out.

The happenings in SL right now has been completely blacked out by both the woke Indian and the woke international media.

The ruling family in SL is not only low level stoopoide but also may be criminally liable for acts of omission and commission but for the fact that folks who oppose them are usually relocated permanently to another realm or dimension altogether

folks like v@nd@n@ $h!v@

India is pitching in with $billions to help the SL out of the hole that their stoopide leaders have deliberately dug for them. The cheeni must be stunned at the level of social and governmental responsibility and lack of the basic understanding displayed by the ahole brothers of the complex agro ecosystem that has been in existence in SL since times immemorial

folks like v@nd@n@ $h!v@ are irresponsible cultists with zero knowledge of the consequences of their terrorist activities that single handed destroyed the agricultural economy of a country already in deep distress.

The filthy woke press has kept very quiet and helped to shield such deranged scum like v@nd@n@ $h!v@ and others of her evil ilk must take a major part of the blame for supressing such a woman made disaster that has visited death and distress upon the hapless people of an entire country

Dr. Vandana Shiva @drvandanashiva

#SriLanka has already banned all chemicals and announced a transition to 100% Organic Sri Lanka

Let us all join hands with Sri Lanka, the #Swiss & every community taking steps towards a #PoisonFree #PoisonCartelFree world for our health & the health of the planet @NavdanyaInt

@GeorginaDowns43

My latest article just published prior to the landmark vote in Switzerland on Sunday on banning the use of all #pesticides Go the Swiss!! Fingers crossed!!

10:25 pm · 10 Jun 2021

https://www.naturalhealthnews.uk/enviro ... n-farming/

Channa Prakash@AgBioWorld

Sri Lankan scientists, while forewarning their president on the reckless decision to ban fertilizer and pesticides,correctly predicted the massive reduction in ag productivity if organic farming was embraced

Sri Lanka Going Organic: Rethink the strategy; Agriculturists Write to President

Channa Prakash@AgBioWorld · 4 Sep 2021

Here, the idiotic Vandana Shiva gloats how she helped Sri Lanka to ban fertilizer and pesticides. She will go down in history as Lysenko 2.0

Channa Prakash@AgBioWorld

Sri Lankan scientists, while forewarning their president on the reckless decision to ban fertilizer and pesticides,correctly predicted the massive reduction in ag productivity if organic farming was embraced

Channa Prakash @AgBioWorld

So my hunch was correct! Vandana Shiva owns this Sri Lankan disaster.

See message from a Sri Lankan scientists.

Apparently @drvandanashiva has been advising the SL government on how to engineer this ag disaster in their country.

Vandana Shiva should be put on “No-Fly” list!

What’s behind the science denial of anti-GM activists?

What’s behind the science denial of anti-GM activists?

June 15, 2019,
Sanjeev Sabhlok


Sanjeev Sabhlok in Seeing the Invisible, India, TOI



The blog is named after Seeing the Invisible, the title of a book on economics for children that Sanjeev wrote in 2018. Economics involves the study of incentives, motivations ... MORE

Just over a week ago I responded to Kavitha Kuruganti’s refutation of my advocacy of Bt brinjal. My response was informed by consultation with a few of India’s top scientists.

Since I wanted to know from Kavitha whether I had adequately addressed her concerns, I added her to a google group on which I engage with scientists and senior journalists. To ensure comprehensive consultation, I also added Rajesh Krishnan (of Coalition For A GM Free India) and my 2013 acquaintance Devinder Sharma who also opposes GM.

Unfortunately, despite repeated reminders, there was complete silence from them all. They don’t want to engage directly with scientists. Instead, one of them sent my request to Aruna Rodrigues who responded on their behalf. Her points were mainly those that I had already addressed. Nevertheless, I compiled a detailed response to her, as well.

In the meantime, though, Aruna shot off an email to the Government of India claiming that I’ve been “inciting ferment” and “acting seditiously”. Separately, Vandana Shiva vented her fury at the farmers who undertook civil disobedience on 10 June 2019 and called them “criminals”. But there is a huge difference between criminal and political action. Civil disobedience is purely political. It is used when a government fails to listen to reason or becomes oppressive, without any hope of redress from petitions and parliamentary processes. Politics begins when the people have had it to their teeth and decide to publicly disobey an unjust law in order to demand a review.

This civil disobedience has “regularised” the mass-scale disobedience of the law that has been going on for years. Studies have confirmed that a large proportion of farmers have been planting “banned” seeds, despite these seeds being very costly. Who can blame farmers for working to increase their incomes, for it is a matter of life and death for them. Moreover, the science is on their side. So the law is the problem, not the farmers. The government now has a choice: either jail them all (millions of them) or change the law.

To find more about these activists, I reviewed a 2000 Doordarshan debate between Vandana Shiva and the academic C.S. Prakash. The debate was on Bt cotton, but the points made by Vandana were exactly the same as the points being made by today’s activists against Bt brinjal. One can understand GM scepticism in 2000, just seven years from the first GM commercialisation. But how can these people raise their worn-out points arguments when so much more data on the safety of GM crops has been confirmed?

To understand the motivations of these people I went through the leaked 2014 Intelligence Bureau report on foreign funded anti-development in India, a report widely available on the internet.

The report starts by noting the benefits of GM – the “resounding success of Bt Cotton in the last ten years. India, a net importer of cotton in 2001-02, is now the second largest exporter of cotton in the world, next only to China.” Further, “of the total cropped area in the world, 82% cotton, 75% soyabean, and 32% maize, is assessed to be based on GM organisms, and at least 2 billion people have been assessed to be already consuming GM Food in the world.”

This Government of India report thus confirms what I’ve been saying – that there has been no adverse incident to human health despite billions of people consuming GM foods, and that Bt cotton is a huge success.

Thereafter the report comes down heavily against “anti-Genetically Modified Organism activism in India [that] is led by five Indian activists and six NGOs, including Greenpeace”. It notes that “the above NGOs were active facilitators of news articles, liaison with other activists and social media activism, which contributed to the three-year old moratorium on Bt Brinjal and the ban/moratorium regimes recommended by the Parliamentary Standing Committee (August 9, 2012) and the Technical Expert Committee (TEC), appointed by the Supreme Court (October 7, 2012).”

The IB is basically telling us that despite GM crops being completely safe, these activists misled Indian politicians into imposing a moratorium. Their anti-development tactics were of great concern to the IB then – and I assume even today. Particularly also because these people have been spreading major falsehoods at the grassroots. As the report noted, “in 2008, Ronald Herring (Cornell University) had accused anti GMF activists of spreading the falsehood that hundreds of sheep and cattle had died after ingesting Bt Cotton leaves in Warangal district in 2006 and 2007. Pro-UM researchers, bio-tech companies and other field enquiries have not been able to verify any such deaths, raising questions on the credibility and integrity of reports generated by these activists”. A farmer I know has confirmed that such falsehoods were indeed spread by the activists.

Who funds these people? Foreigners. The IB report notes that “Anti-GMF activism was initiated in 2003 by Vandana Shiva” who received foreign funding both from Navdanya and Greenpeace Australia. The report also specifically names Aruna Rodrigues and Kavitha Kuruganti as recipients of foreign funds. “A significant portion of foreign funding for these NGOs was’ sourced from German donors such as Greenpeace International, EED, Bread for the World and Misereor, amongst others”.

The approach that Kavitha, Aruna and Vandana have adopted over the past two weeks has given away their game, as people with an axe to grind. I was happy enough to engage with them as I would with any honest Indian – but they’ve rejected debate in favour of confrontation.

In the meantime, I have found that the Minister who succumbed in 2010 to pressure from these foreign-funded activists has expressed regret. In 2016 Jairam Ramesh told journalist Vivian Fernandes that “he intended the stay [Bt brinjal moratorium] only for a couple of years [and] he is not opposed to genetic engineering of crops”. Jairam knows that his scientists had totally cleared Bt brinjal. So Aruna should look into the mirror and ask: who is the real criminal here? Who misled Jairam?

Worse, Vandana Shiva wants India to stop technology altogether and switch to organic farming. That is the biggest give-away about her hidden agenda. Norman Borlaug had ruled out organic farming when he said: “There are 6.6 billion people on the planet today. With organic farming we could only feed 4 billion of them. Which 2 billion would volunteer to die?”. The fact that Vandana wants India to move to the medieval era of famines could only mean one thing: she is working for Western organisations whose sole agenda is to decimate the population of developing countries. I understand that Vandana Shiva is paid heavily as a “speaker” at Western events. Is that a clever mechanism to escape FCRA restrictions on Greenpeace? I smell serious sedition going on here. The accounts and operations of these activists should be investigated as early as possible by the Indian government.

[Cyrano]

thank god Vandana Shiva is largely ignored in India !

[SinghS]

There are two aspects to it. Vandana Shiva is not entirely wrong. We all are eating poison, there is no doubt about it.

The dilemma is whether to poison the earth and water and die slow death over generations or die due to inflation and want of food for the growing population immediately. I don't have answers. This is for the nation and people to answer collectively and take measures.

The use of pesticides, growth hormones and fertilizer is indiscriminate everywhere due to greed of our "annadaatas". Hazipur, in Bihar is famous for bananas. Whenever I ate Hazipur bananas, I fell ill. When I was young the bottle gourd was never bitter. Nowadays it is not the case. I have read about cases of people dying drinking bottle gourd juice. The list is endless.

I like to grow my own organic vegetables and I am seeing the benefits and the difference. I have also observed that the plants are developing immunity to pests if certain care is taken. I have also observed that the pests have developed immunity due to indiscriminate use of pesticides by farmers ( my neighbor in this case).

Anyways, my conclusion is that to have a quality of life and food, one needs to be rich and active (not lazy). Population control is the key. If the earth has to feed disproportionately large population, we would end up destroying it.

[chetak]

There are two aspects to it. Vandana Shiva is not entirely wrong. We all are eating poison, there is no doubt about it.

The dilemma is whether to poison the earth and water and die slow death over generations or die due to inflation and want of food for the growing population immediately. I don't have answers. This is for the nation and people to answer collectively and take measures.

The use of pesticides, growth hormones and fertilizer is indiscriminate everywhere due to greed of our "annadaatas". Hazipur, in Bihar is famous for bananas. Whenever I ate Hazipur bananas, I fell ill. When I was young the bottle gourd was never bitter. Nowadays it is not the case. I have read about cases of people dying drinking bottle gourd juice. The list is endless.

I like to grow my own organic vegetables and I am seeing the benefits and the difference. I have also observed that the plants are developing immunity to pests if certain care is taken. I have also observed that the pests have developed immunity due to indiscriminate use of pesticides by farmers ( my neighbor in this case).

Anyways, my conclusion is that to have a quality of life and food, one needs to be rich and active (not lazy). Population control is the key. If the earth has to feed disproportionately large population, we would end up destroying it.

wonder what the starving lankans have to say about this.

After having been r@ped by ignorant r@j2pak$@$ and conned by criminals like v@nd@n@ $h!v@, having lost their livelihoods, lost earnings, they have been reduced to beggary and destitution.

evil vermin like v@nd@n@ $h!v@ should be locked up pronto.

people who this time last year had decent earnings are now left in a hopeless state

whatever one's ideas on "organic" farming, no one, repeat no one has the right to rape an entire country because of some stoopide crackpot ideas

if one wants "organic", one knows where to buy it from

Go there, buy, eat and chup chap go home

no need to f(uk an entire country and rape honest innocent people just trying to make a life and a future for their families.

[chetak]

thank god Vandana Shiva is largely ignored in India !

there is a "leaked" intelligence report here.

see what these bleddy foreign NGOs have been up to in India

the gory details are there


https://humanrightsmanipur.files.wordpr ... o-copy.pdf


BTW, this is what vermin like v@nd@n@ $h!v@ have done to the lankans with her crackpot organic farming ideas

Things weren't so bad even during the lankan war years

[Cyrano]

When ideology driven policies are blindly implemented across the board without a careful plan to transition progressively from fertiliser and pesticide intensive agriculture to full organic overnight, you get the disaster we're seeing in Sri Lanka.

If Vandana Shiva has influenced this outcome, she has much to answer for and deserves the criticism.

[Shankas]

India should look at the Puerto Rico model for Sri Lanka. Get ordinary citizen to apply for special passports similar to OCI and in 5 years hold a referendum.

https://www.history.com/news/puerto-rico-statehood
Located about a thousand miles southeast of Florida, Puerto Rico is a Caribbean archipelago with a complex colonial history and political status. As a territory of the United States, Puerto Rico’s 3.2 million residents are U.S. citizens. However, while subject to U.S. federal laws, island-based Puerto Ricans can’t vote in presidential elections and lack voting representation in Congress. As a U.S. territory, it is neither a state nor an independent country.

[Rudradev]

Here's something that's important to realise:

The GOI, to its credit, knows that it's vitally important to build a pro-Hindu NGO ecosystem if we want to remove the tentacles of a foreign-funded BIF NGO ecosystem.

Specifically, it is not enough to simply complain that "all these environmentalist, womens-rights, tribal-rights etc. NGOs are foreign-funded BIFs onlee". The fact that they exist, means there is a need/demand for the services they provide.

That space has been monopolized (mostly during Congi Raj) by the leftist, foreign-funded BIF NGOs. It is important to displace them with our own NGOs.

That is where people like Vandana Shiva, Madhu Kishwar, Smriti Irani etc. come in. RSS works directly wherever possible to provide services such as tribal welfare and education. Madhu Kishwar has been brought in as the non-left face of women's issues. Smriti Irani for village economies, cottage industries, and handicrafts. And Vandana Shiva, who was vetted by (and worked with) Rajiv Malhotra directly, has been brought in as the face of environmental issues.

None of these people is perfect. But going into their deep past to find reasons to cancel them, e.g. because they gave some leftist gyaan during some former phase of their careers, is ultimately self-defeating.

They have been vetted by the PMO and HMO and deemed capable of leading the indigenous NGOs movement to displace the cancerous foreign-funded NGOs who previously monopolized their respective service spaces. Let's not dream that we know better than MAD about these things.

[chetak]

When ideology driven policies are blindly implemented across the board without a careful plan to transition progressively from fertiliser and pesticide intensive agriculture to full organic overnight, you get the disaster we're seeing in Sri Lanka.

If Vandana Shiva has influenced this outcome, she has much to answer for and deserves the criticism.

the soil takes about five years to be able to support organic farming

It has to lie fallow for all that time with regular working of the soil and application of real organic fertilizer

at the end of five years, it may be certified as organic farming ready depending on the soil and chemical analysis reports

The organic yields from such farms are very meagre in relation to the normal farming methods hence the prices are very high, making it available to faddists and some diehard organic aficionados

will these aficionados also drink organic milk, eat organic rice/wheat/spices, cook only with cold pressed organic oils, bathe with organic soap, clean their houses and wash their organic clothing with organic detergents, wear organic clothing made with organically grown fibres or just simply "eat" organic vegetables only when wokes and pseudos are watching.

the crackpot fraud lady certainly did not do any of this

[chetak]

They have been vetted by the PMO and HMO and deemed capable of leading the indigenous NGOs movement to displace the cancerous foreign-funded NGOs who previously monopolized their respective service spaces. Let's not dream that we know better than MAD about these things.

ki$hw@r has turned vehemently anti PM maybe because RS seat wasn't forthcoming, $hiv@ is FFNGO connected and woke, only ir@n! seems to be the genuine dharmic article

yes a demand has been created for such people, not any existing or unmet demand, mind you, but a freshly created niche market demand after a proper professional survey. Their FFNGO covers are usually a ploy for tribal and marginalized population conversions

If it walks like a duck etc, etc, it is a quacking duck

no need to waste time with a magnifying glass

[Cyrano]

The fact that they exist, means there is a need/demand for the services they provide.

Not sure I can go with that. Almost sounds like evangelists exist because there is a need for it. (I'm not saying you are saying that Rudradev ji).

The problem of exploiting natural resources in a region while ensuring fair treatment and compensation for the locals for the -ve impact such projects create is a global problem. Often, those impacted can't make themselves heard above business interests who are very powerful. Be it extractive industries, chemical plants or infra projects.

But the job and responsibility of deciding whether the environmental impact (as per best scientific option available to date) is outweighed by the development gains for the locals and the nation rests squarely with the Govt. Convincing the local people, framing safeguards and paying compensation, jobs etc too. What else is the purpose of the elaborate licence raj we still have today?

If the govt cant or won't do its job correctly and impartially, or won't hear the voices of poor citizen, only then the need for NGOs arises. We've had decades of corrupt govts therefore NGOS thrived. Significant improvement in central govt now, but most state govts still are totally corrupt when deciding on projects with big money at stake.

In many cases, NGOs pick up a grassroots opposition (which may be rightly or wrongly informed, but is justifiably worried, and they have every right to oppose a project that impacts them) and highjack the agenda for their own ends. Career activists and NGOs that live to agitate are indeed "andloan jeevis" who cant survive if there is nothing to agitate for.

NGOs are a sign of govt failure to do its job, and its failure to run a consultative process and make fair decisions while protecting the most fragile. Govt is accountable, is any NGO ever held accountable? NGO mukt Bharat is any day preferable, domestic are less evil than foreign but evil and corruptible all the same IMO.

[chetak]

India should look at the Puerto Rico model for Sri Lanka. Get ordinary citizen to apply for special passports similar to OCI and in 5 years hold a referendum.

https://www.history.com/news/puerto-rico-statehood
Located about a thousand miles southeast of Florida, Puerto Rico is a Caribbean archipelago with a complex colonial history and political status. As a territory of the United States, Puerto Rico’s 3.2 million residents are U.S. citizens. However, while subject to U.S. federal laws, island-based Puerto Ricans can’t vote in presidential elections and lack voting representation in Congress. As a U.S. territory, it is neither a state nor an independent country.

why do we so confidently assume that the sinhala are fools to be so easily led by their nose and puerto rico-ed like brainless bovines

don't they get a say in who takes them over, if at all

don't we and them get a referendum to decide. I am very sure that both countries will refuse

what would we do if cheeni or amerikis or aussies objected to such crackpot ideas and passed a UN resolution sanctioning us

would we be willing to fight them all

what would our own people say, would everyone just lump it and keep quiet

methinks not

[Cyrano]

What great stuff does SL have to offer to merit becoming part of Bharat I wonder? And what guarantee that once the hard times are over a territory thus integrated won't start separatism? Regions which have been always part of India's identity have at times become separatist lest we forget.

Enough of such harebrained ideas. Such experiments never work, neither is India full of saints nor is SL. Just look at how Ukraine has failed to integrate and keep its eastern territories after 3 decades...

[Rudradev]

If it walks like a duck etc, etc, it is a quacking duck

no need to waste time with a magnifying glass

These would be the last words of a duck who is deceived by a hunter's decoy.

Your time is of no consequence regarding this issue, because you don't make policy. Those who do apply their due diligence before making decisions, and it's obvious what their decisions have been.

[Rudradev]

The fact that they exist, means there is a need/demand for the services they provide.

Not sure I can go with that. Almost sounds like evangelists exist because there is a need for it. (I'm not saying you are saying that Rudradev ji).

The problem of exploiting natural resources in a region while ensuring fair treatment and compensation for the locals for the -ve impact such projects create is a global problem. Often, those impacted can't make themselves heard above business interests who are very powerful. Be it extractive industries, chemical plants or infra projects.

But the job and responsibility of deciding whether the environmental impact (as per best scientific option available to date) is outweighed by the development gains for the locals and the nation rests squarely with the Govt. Convincing the local people, framing safeguards and paying compensation, jobs etc too. What else is the purpose of the elaborate licence raj we still have today?

I don't disagree in principle at all. It SHOULD be the job of the government.

But in fact-- in nearly EVERY country (except perhaps tiny European countries where taxes are high, incomes are first-world level, and the govt:population ratio is immense) it is NOT, in fact, the government that directly handles many of these things.

The whole notion of an NGO is not something that began in India or even in the developing world. It was a way for governments to outsource policy implementation because there was just too damn much else to do (assuming for a moment that the government in question is well-intentioned, and not just interested in accumulating ill-gotten money, as many governments are).

What Modi Sarkar has inherited is a bloated government apparatus that is used to doing 1/4 day's work for 1 day's pay, and a whole ecosystem of NGOs who work on all the things the bloated government apparatus will not touch.

Modi Sarkar cannot (at least in the short term) absorb all these NGO-served functions back into the ambit of the govt bureaucracy-- that will require an extreme overhaul of the bureaucracy itself, so that the layabouts and parasites can be turfed out for inadequate performance. It will also probably involve a reform of the tax code, which may end up alienating large sections of the voting public. Achieving all this without increasing the size of the government (and contravening a core principle of the BJP platform) will be a difficult circle to square.

In the meantime NGOs will continue to own those spaces.

Modi Sarkar realises: better that the dominant NGOs in each space are beholden to India than to BIFs. So replacing FFNGOs with govt-approved ones is a stopgap solution, but a necessary one nonetheless.

[chetak]

If it walks like a duck etc, etc, it is a quacking duck

no need to waste time with a magnifying glass

These would be the last words of a duck who is deceived by a hunter's decoy.

Your time is of no consequence regarding this issue, because you don't make policy. Those who do apply their due diligence before making decisions, and it's obvious what their decisions have been.

policy in India is now being made on the streets and elected govts are on the side lines watching the flow.

shaheenbagh, CAA, halal, love jehad, temple lootings and destructions and conversions with many more agenda items to come. Due diligence and rubbish like that falls by the roadside when the rubber hits the road and then it's every one for himself/herself.

if we don't get on the streets/pressure the govt in other ways to make our policy, then someone else will do it for us and it will not be to our liking

yes I do know that my time is of no consequence, get off your high horse before you say that.

unlike many here who are offshored for any reason, some of us are invested in India and committed to the idea of India, oftentimes one has put one's money where one's mouth is

If one speaks of SL, one has been there and done that, before the war, during the war on orders and now after the war by the dictates of one's job and, one knows well whereof one speaks.

[Rudradev]

policy in India is now being made on the streets and elected govts are on the side lines watching the flow.

Well, if one refuses to look beyond the superficial as a matter of principle, things might naturally appear so to them. Personally, I think there is more to it than that.

shaheenbagh, CAA, halal, love jehad, temple lootings and destructions and conversions with many more agenda items to come. Due diligence and rubbish like that falls by the roadside when the rubber hits the road and then it's every one for himself/herself

Why is it never anyone on the left for himself/herself? Surely you have seen how they descend like pack animals the minute the sanctity of any one of them is impugned.

It's because they have a strong and well-funded ecosystem outside of the government... what they term as "civil society". It is essential that our side also develops such an institutional ecosystem. Steps are being taken, within government and outside, to create one.

Some of the steps taken will be missteps, certainly. Some of the choices made will be far from ideal, and will be restricted to the best choices available at a given time. But it's better that the project is being pursued rather than letting the left dominate the NGO space and so-called "civil society" for another 75 years.

yes I do know that my time is of no consequence, get off your high horse before you say that.

some of us are invested in India and committed to the idea of India, oftentimes one has put one's money where one's mouth is

Fair enough. On a forum like this, nobody knows the identity or antecedents of anyone else. That goes as much for me as for you, as I am sure you realise.

But on this specific point, correct me if I'm wrong, but you aren't directly involved in determining the GOI's NGO policy. Neither am I. In fact, at this moment we're both sitting in the gallery eating peanuts.

So you are welcome to consider that looking beyond the superficial level is a waste of time, but I am equally certain that people who are actually in the hot seat of implementing Modi Sarkar's policy on this matter can, and do look deep into the backgrounds of those they choose to promote or engage with in any way.

One may know some of the people involved in this effort personally. They may not always make the right choices, but they can't afford to say that delving into an NGO activist's background/history is a waste of time.

If one speaks of SL, one has been there and done that, before the war, during the war on orders and now after the war by the dictates of one's job and, one knows well whereof one speaks.

I wasn't referring to SL generally but to the specific issue of various activists in the NGO space. To the extent that someone like Vandana Shiva is involved in pursuing certain things in SL, I would guess that it is not entirely her own initiative without the approval of higher-ups, and it may be a mistake to assume those higher-ups are from left-wing foreign funded NGOs. That's all.

[chetak]

Read the documentation on $hiva.

she is notorious, vengeful and demonic

If you want, download and read the referenced pdf below.

It will give you an idea of how the FFNGOs work. It mentions very specific cases which links to news reports and other blog posts if you care to follow the trail by yourself

no matter whatever is their stated objective, demographic change is what they have been tasked, funded, recruited and pushed to do

there are voluminous references on the net and various blogs where dharmic people have called them out.

If you are in touch with doc shiv, ask or look him up on the net. There are various trusted brf handles that one could checkout

the rulers in SL never do anything without first being paid off and substantially too. $hiva is no angel and neither are her associates.

To crash the entire agro ecosystem of a country, any country, takes some doing indeed and tante $hiva with her associates managed to do just that.

were they preparing the grounds for the abrahamics to wade in and "help out" and why did India pitch in with her billion$ when she has not done such a thing before with SL.

was it to save the SLs from the start of a abrahamics led demographic change process under the usual guise of aid or what.

Why did India intervene so decisively and quickly

BTW, the rapid and abrahamics led demographic change process is currently very active in the land of the dravidians and in AP as well

tante $hiva is just the tip of a large iceberg

the 2.5 billion$ SL tea export industry will not recover so easily. Why was that destroyed too. Wasn't any risk assessment done to quantify the losses of their worldwide business and global reputation for quality teas that was established over the many decades



https://humanrightsmanipur.files.wordpr ... o-copy.pdf

[Cyrano]

Rudradev ji,
I have no problem with NGOs that prop up to defend a group of people who could be or are impacted by a public policy or private interest. Even the most diligent and well meaning govt can make mistakes, and people's right to organise and voice their views is fundamental in any society. However NGOs that live beyond the specific issue that gave rise to them are basically leveraging their "andolan kaari" competence and it inevitably becomes an end in itself, and loses its objectivity more often than not because it has no skin in the game.

Being able to mobilise and rally people IS politics, and politics is power, and we know power corrupts. Thats the problem on counting on NGOs because the govt is "too busy" - if they cant find time and resources to resolve a specific issue, they will later spend 100x of the same dealing with the NGO which loyal only to itself (= its funding masters), which has no accountability. We have enough instances of that. What happened in SL is a stellar example of what can happen when the govt outsources its job (in this case, national agri policy) to an entity with zero accountability, and no skin in the game.

BTW, what are these issues in today's India that are not important enough for the Govt but important enough for NGOs to get involved? Are we having instances where even desi NGOs have outperformed the govt and accrued fair and equitable outcomes to the impacted people? I'm willing to be educated on this.

[Rudradev]

Rudradev ji,
I have no problem with NGOs that prop up to defend a group of people who could be or are impacted by a public policy or private interest. Even the most diligent and well meaning govt can make mistakes, and people's right to organise and voice their views is fundamental in any society. However NGOs that live beyond the specific issue that gave rise to them are basically leveraging their "andolan kaari" competence and it inevitably becomes an end in itself, and loses its objectivity more often than not because it has no skin in the game.

Being able to mobilise and rally people IS politics, and politics is power, and we know power corrupts. Thats the problem on counting on NGOs because the govt is "too busy" - if they cant find time and resources to resolve a specific issue, they will later spend 100x of the same dealing with the NGO which loyal only to itself (= its funding masters), which has no accountability. We have enough instances of that. What happened in SL is a stellar example of what can happen when the govt outsources its job (in this case, national agri policy) to an entity with zero accountability, and no skin in the game.

BTW, what are these issues in today's India that are not important enough for the Govt but important enough for NGOs to get involved? Are we having instances where even desi NGOs have outperformed the govt and accrued fair and equitable outcomes to the impacted people? I'm willing to be educated on this.

Getting OT here, but suffice it to say that there is simply no government (other than perhaps Denmark, Luxembourg, Singapore etc) that does not, today, outsource a large segment of policy implementation to outside contractors i.e. non-governmental organisations, by definition.

Not all of these organisations are non-profit: for example, in the US, both COVID vaccine manufacture/distribution and the military-industrial complex are dominated by private corporations effectively taking on the NGO role. They work WITH government agencies-- CDC and the Pentagon, respectively-- but they are not governmental agencies themselves. Digital connectivity as well as social engineering, censorship etc. is similarly outsourced to tech giants from Silicon Valley.

I don't know how it is under true Communist governments (where literally everything is state-owned). USSR may not have had NGOs. I'm not sure what fulfills the equivalent role in PRC today. But for the government to do all this stuff without outsourcing, you need a really huge government. If they outsource any of it, then the contracting entity by definition is an NGO.

I'm not saying any of this is ideal, it's just how it is. It doesn't seem to be a question of 'do NGOs outperform the government' as much as the fact that most governments in the modern era have just adopted this outsourcing as a standard practice of doing many things.

The question is only: do you stop all NGO activity and bring everything under the government umbrella-- which you must then hugely expand? Or do you (assuming you are a responsible, patriotic government) adopt better checks and balances to ensure that NGOs are in fact advancing, rather than subverting national policies in the sphere of their activities? Where on the spectrum do you aim at any given time (assuming it's a moving target?)

[chetak]

WA gyan


v@nd@n@ $h!v@ achieved what prabhakaran couldn’t : destroy sri lanka’s economy

[Cyrano]

NGOs for me are activist organisations that are fighting for a cause, against Govt policy/inaction or private enterprises' projects, or both - and as such have no specific laws regulating their action, except perhaps re: funding and their use, and subject to general laws applicable to all. Private enterprises are governed by a plethora of laws, regulations, disclosures and are accountable to various authorities and investors, operate with a profit motive. Chartiable "seva" associations are another matter. I see them as 3 distinct classes. Anyway, OT here...

[chetak]

all of her evil ilk have gone quiet as the magnitude of the disaster hit them

she was advised not to do it but she pushed the rajapaksas' and, they tumbled head first into a deep hole that she had dug with her ignorance and arrogance


she is called "the gandhi of grain"

I would change only one word

gandhi to gan*u

jo India me gan*u hai, woh beshaak, SL me be gan*u hai


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2k9OY8O70w



Sri Lanka's organic farming revolution - Dr. Vandana Shiva

[SinghS]

SL crisis happens when you have autocratic rule. Hindu Banias and the bureaucracy(distributed computing and clusters) is too slow, to implement any disruptive idea too quickly. This has been the sole reason for our survival.

We like to experiment on small scale, avoid risks and most of the times it is good for our people Chetak-ji.

[ritesh]

India should look at the Puerto Rico model for Sri Lanka. Get ordinary citizen to apply for special passports similar to OCI and in 5 years hold a referendum.

https://www.history.com/news/puerto-rico-statehood
Located about a thousand miles southeast of Florida, Puerto Rico is a Caribbean archipelago with a complex colonial history and political status. As a territory of the United States, Puerto Rico’s 3.2 million residents are U.S. citizens. However, while subject to U.S. federal laws, island-based Puerto Ricans can’t vote in presidential elections and lack voting representation in Congress. As a U.S. territory, it is neither a state nor an independent country.

This is an excellent idea when it comes to Akhand Bharat concept. Do we really need POK GB etc to further influence in our general election, if and when they do come into our fold.

[chetak]

SL crisis happens when you have autocratic rule. Hindu Banias and the bureaucracy(distributed computing and clusters) is too slow, to implement any disruptive idea too quickly. This has been the sole reason for our survival.

We like to experiment on small scale, avoid risks and most of the times it is good for our people Chetak-ji.

tell that to the hapless SLs

no amount of slick reasoning or loopy logic after the fact even comes close to justifying the toasting of an entire country's economy and to allow lefty and naxal crackpots to unleash untold misery upon its populace

It will take the SLs many years to recover, and re-establish themselves and in the meanwhile many will die, get pushed willy nilly into poverty and despair

They have no power, no fuel, no money, and no affordable food

Growing a few pots of organics on the balcony is a far cry from what was done in SL.

$hiva must have had rabid visions of the nobel when she so maliciously went about her crackpot ideas

and the SL citizens are out on the streets, protesting outside president gotabaya rajapaksa's residence as the economic crisis deepens in the country

[SinghS]

People deserve the miseries brought upon by those whom they vote for. This is what teaches them ultimately, yet some societies never learn the lesson...like Pakis and Afghanis.

Shiva is not the villain. It is the collective decision of a nation/highest authorities which has failed. Obviously a political scapegoat is required. This is all in a nutshell what it looks like.

Let's worry more about what we can learn from SL crisis and how to utilize it as a nation to keep the SL under our umbrella of influence.

[chetak]

the big take aways here are the inevitable consequences of allowing ANY FFNGO to meddle in the internal/foreign affairs of a country

and don't get taken in by anyone who says that "I come to serve you"

Two guys said that and things ended badly for them, one was crucified and the other was shot

godhra, cashmere, west bengal, andhra, TN, kerala and many more..... all have a common thread of the venal FFNGOs running through and through

India's RTE laws was made by vengeful FFNGOs that were "co-opted" into the illegal NAC of the mafia famiglia

Is there another such example anywhere else in the world that is so blatantly anti majority, taking taxes from the Hindus and looting Hindu temples and handing over the loot to others

we are well aware of the cancerous culture being spread because of these "charitable" organisations

is anyone asking the obvious question: how and why did the mafia famiglia and these BIF type of FFNGOs have such a close and strategic access to one another, like siamese twins, joined at the hip

ditto for the aap, punjab and TN political parties and the commies

$hiva is a villian and the point person for offshore interests

rajapaksas couldn't find their bare butts at high noon with both hands. They understand only money and untraceable money at that.

[Pratyush]

Someone I know is in Colombo. I am hearing the following points.

1) Rajapaksa family has stolen nearly 30 billion USD in wealth from Sri Lanka.

2) Once this family is removed. IMF and others will enter and start bailing out Sri Lanka from trouble.

3) Indian LOC will be available in a short while and that will help in payment of goods that are currently on ships outside the harbour. Waiting for payment before being unloaded. ( I don't believe that due to terms of international trade. But my known person does).

The above seems to be a sophisticated information war campaign in Sri Lanka.

[chetak]

Someone I know is in Colombo. I am hearing the following points.

1) Rajapaksa family has stolen nearly 30 billion USD in wealth from Sri Lanka.

2) Once this family is removed. IMF and others will enter and start bailing out Sri Lanka from trouble.

3) Indian LOC will be available in a short while and that will help in payment of goods that are currently on ships outside the harbour. Waiting for payment before being unloaded. ( I don't believe that due to terms of international trade. But my known person does).

The above seems to be a sophisticated information war campaign in Sri Lanka.

the lankans are paying the price for destroying the ltte, its leadership and it's mid level cadres.

They were told in no uncertain terms by a majority of western govts, powerful regime change FFNGOs to leave prabhakaran and his family alone and particularly the white robes were most insistent on this. This lot is now trying to make a forced entry into the power corridors of SL via the dravidian parties in TN.

M K Stalin meets PM; seeks Centre's nod for providing humanitarian aid to Lankan Tamils

needless "human rights" violations and charges of genocide and war crimes have been brought in to harass the sinhala

these entities have been squeezing the lankans for many years now and finally a murderous malady like $hiva succeeded in doing what even the ltte failed to do and that is tank the entire SL economy.

the cheeni want the puppet rajapaksas left in place but the whiteys want them out

India is the unexpected joker in the pack, a wild card that was played out of the blue. Will India's wild card trump the cheenis or the whiteys or both

BTW, SL is higher than India in Global Happiness Index

SL is also nearly 60 ranks above India in HDI ranking




Remember that HDI was developed based on the research of amartya sen

[Cyrano]

The ultimate irony of western NGOs pushing organic farming in India, SL etc assuming their data is right

https://www.worldometers.info/food-agri ... y-country/

look at kg of pesticides per hectare of crop land

[Manish_P]

.....

https://www.worldometers.info/food-agri ... y-country/

look at kg of pesticides per hectare of crop land

I know this is the SL thread but Bakistan at 158... even lower than Cook Islands ??

[chetak]

.....

https://www.worldometers.info/food-agri ... y-country/

look at kg of pesticides per hectare of crop land

I know this is the SL thread but Bakistan at 158... even lower than Cook Islands ??

do you think that it's so less because maybe they can't afford it,