India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

[Vidur]

Karan please check your email

[kit]

Interesting take on SuSu s CIA agenda ( one of his many )

AGENDAS OF THE US STATE GOVERNMENT BECOMING CLEAR

RUSSIA NOW.... IS CHINA SECOND ... OR INDIA ?

BLINKENS DEEP LINKS WITH SOROS.. he might as well work for Soros !!

Deep state nexus

Soros is most likely the wealthiest man in the world and literally controls the American deep state policies

[V_Raman]

One possible future course of action

#3 to resurrect NAM in some new shape or form

this time that will be interpreted as showing its hard power.

[A Deshmukh]

Suppose
#1 US
#2 China
#3 India
#4 Russia
#5 EU which is the joker in the pack.
What's wrong with this picture?

#6 Islam

once #6 rears its head, all dynamics change. its only matter of time.

[ricky_v]

Ramana sir, if we consider this situation from luttwak's pov, then it must be considered holistically.
https://defense.info/book-review/2020/0 ... to%20both.

The most important foundation for Luttwak’s theory is that strategy has two dimensions in which its logic unfolds. In the vertical dimension, five different levels—technical, tactical, operational, theatre, and grand strategic—interact but also conflict, because no natural harmony exists between them. In the horizontal dimension, the contest of wills between belligerents plays out through a dynamic interrelationship between action, reaction, culmination, overextension, and reversal.

This dynamic interrelationship between belligerents, or their systemic interaction and its cumulative invisible course correction resulting from such interactions should dictate the transient flow of strategic relations. A particular viewpoint is to consider the interaction of civilisations as popularised by Huntington, but it often ignores the point that the character and outlook of these civilisations and the people inhibiting and expanding the civilisation is dynamic at different speeds.

When we thus posit that any country may inhibit cooperation with another for strategic gain, we must also consider the action, reaction, culmination, overextension, and reversal of such decisions are examined under the parameters of technical, tactical, operational, theatre, and grand strategic which are usually in conflict. To guide these differences then there must be an overarching philosophy that aids the decision-making process of the 5 civilisation states which consequently frames their vast system-of-systems and which may be more or less than the traditional concept of a nation; it would be germane to consider the interaction between value system(s) offered by the civilisation-nation.

Value system
#1 USA / Post-modernism - the most agile outlook of the participants, current outlook born of american evangelicalism, colour relations, settler sensibilities and the hippie movement.
It offers freedom and democracy not only from autocratic regimes but from the yoke of history and familial relations and seeks to form a new world order bereft of their scrutiny.


#2 China / Constant Mandate of Heaven - seeks to break the cyclical nature of the mandate of heaven and provide for a constant ruler.
Action - Internally strengthen the position / heft of the chairman
Reaction - against encroachment of influence on vassal states
Culmination - syncretic approach of internal and external infrastructure, coupled with monetary manufacturing policies
Overextension - economic stability
Reversal - loss of territory

#3 India /??

#4 Russia / Symposium - symbiotic relationship of the government / institution in power and the church (may expand to include mosques).

#5 EU / ?? Perhaps the Green Movement
Action - Make the Mediterranean Sea as the middle province, expand EU till subsahara.

[ramana]

But does this explain why US wants India to vote against Russia?
Its using 'carrot and stick' but at the other ends and expects cooperation.

[bala]

Soros is most likely the wealthiest man in the world and literally controls the American deep state policies

Kit ji, interesting video. This "Deep State" is the same one behind the British Raj that ruled over India.

[ramana]

Quigley calls the ADAE: Anglo Dutch American Establishment

[ramana]

Vidur, Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
We need to develop the matrix.
At a fundamental level need to understand the two apostles: Peter (Roman Catholic) and Andreas (Orthodox).
Their dogma and approach.

[kit]

is it like the drunk searching for his keys under the light?

India is seen as a soft & vulnerable state, so the US thinks it is easy to chalk up a win here.

Not so simple. We are missing some thing.
Ok per Luttwak's Logic of strategy (LOS)

Suppose
#1 US
#2 China
#3 India
#4 Russia
#5 EU which is the joker in the pack.

LOS says
1) #1 will team up with #3 to prevent being displaced by #2.
2) Same time #2 will hit #3 to prevent teaming up with #1.
So far that is happening.
3) Now #1 doesn't want #3 and #4 getting together to protect #5. However #3 is a friend of #5
4) While #2 is teaming up with #4

LOS says #1 should prevent #2 and #4 from getting together.
Why is 4) not harmful to #5? They can ride roughshod on #5 in every which way.
The reality is #1 wants to preserve #5 at all costs and the rest is a charade.
Now work on everything with this as the top objective of #1.

What's wrong with this picture?

I dont think this will be a one to one matrix , there are complex interactions between all stake holders ., lets see

Structural issues to global order end of 2021

COVID and declining american influence attracted the deep state attention ., to do everything and anything to restore "America First"

Joker 5 must listen to 1 instead of squabbling all around making Amerikis lose patience
They must spend more on military ( read buy arms from Lockheed , Raytheon etc)
UK has been crying recently of its ill fated brexit , some semblance of unity would cheer them up

China has been to uppity especially with Xi , the man thinks himself an emperor of sorts , well he can have some kingdom to himself ,
[ Taiwan has been given up long back., all the talks are just show., so Japan has stepped into uncles boots to "save taiwan" but cant do on its own ...and hence the QUAD a name sake that will be redundant once Cheen takes over Taiwan]

2 believes its too big to be bossed around., it tried to do "equal equal" with unkle ., but the sly Joe even though appearing to agree was two timing him., that brings into play taking away 2 s biggest support 4 !
Now 4 has been 1s pet project for a looong time and now all the cards are in place for the "perfect finish" as envisaged by the state dept and the company.. but potential spoilers are ... surprisingly 3 !!

Ah 3 ! .. always regarded as a soft state easily pliable and manipulated , this time playing truant .. now 3 has gotten into the state dept and the companys "radar" for special trreatment .. lo and behold luland and "under" secretaries are on their way to Nayi Dilli ... looking ground for a future "maidan" perhaps ?

For 3 , some of the companys people are in place pushing all too familiar agendas ., BIF favourite., the "farmer" rally has been spectacularly successful and company man kejri in the saddle.,

The boss man Soros himself has decided Kejri way is the way ., so the insidous influence of the deep state will be seen through kejris actions., ( though i need to mention another andhra politician down south has visions of grandeur and suddenly seeing" light at the end of the tunnel.. now all energised)

What will happen to India is not geopolitics .. why upset a big market .. buddy we are cool with whatever you do.. ( but you dont know this ..yet)

Kejri next agenda is identifying muslim predominated areas in the nearby states., "buy" " kill" " force" enough so that they get LS seats .. not local assemblies ( time is important !) ... and set the ball rolling for expanding aap influence.. dont be surprised is SuSu is their RS candidate !!

BIF is totally at work with the ameriki deeep state while outwardly they praise and bally hoo with "military exercises" "2/2 talks" "exchange visits" ..they want NOTHING SHORT OF A REGIME CHANGE IN INDIA

Russia is just a red herrring ., it s just a long drawn out game plan finishing ..and most of the people are staring at it.

Ah the jokers 5 have now all nicely come together and spending money buying arms and oil and gas ... from America .. that will result in a huge transfer of wealth westward ., in fact a Marshall plan in reverse !! Who says you cant have your cake and eat it too ?

The geniuses at state dept are nothing to be sneezed at ..and lots of people thought they were sleeping ?

[kit]

#5 EU / ?? Perhaps the Green Movement
Action - Make the Mediterranean Sea as the middle province, expand EU till subsahara.

may i say., geopolitics sometimes is straighforward lust for money power and influence

all the nazi green idealogies ultimately are creations of these forces

The primal nature of man always win hands down .. money and power ALWAYS talks.

The way around ?

Keep your enemies closer
NEVER reveal your cards
TIME is precious , build up your economic and military strength., the bullies respect ONLY STRENGTH
NEVER appear weak
DONT get into multilateral trade pacts but only one to one FTAs to maximise market strengths., for India its market size is critical importance and the honey everyone wants
When in doubt OBFUSCATE ., if you dont know no one else needs to know

[ricky_v]

Keep your enemies closer
NEVER reveal your cards
TIME is precious , build up your economic and military strength., the bullies respect ONLY STRENGTH
NEVER appear weak
DONT get into multilateral trade pacts but only one to one FTAs to maximise market strengths., for India its market size is critical importance and the honey everyone wants
When in doubt OBFUSCATE ., if you dont know no one else needs to know

Let me ask you this sir: what did the eu gain by the large influx of middle-eastern / south asian immigrants following the arab spring that still continues irrespective of war and inflation? The majority do not contribute by working, whatever spending they affect on the economy is borne by the local government in the form of largesse, the government spends resources on their upkeep, suffers tensions in the social fabric and condones mixing of genetics of their people with others. And yet, the chief architect of the policy, Ms. Merkel, was popular till she left office of her own volition.

[Muppalla]

Not so simple. We are missing some thing.
Ok per Luttwak's Logic of strategy (LOS)

Suppose
#1 US
#2 China
#3 India
#4 Russia
#5 EU which is the joker in the pack.

LOS says
1) #1 will team up with #3 to prevent being displaced by #2.
2) Same time #2 will hit #3 to prevent teaming up with #1.
So far that is happening.
3) Now #1 doesn't want #3 and #4 getting together to protect #5. However #3 is a friend of #5
4) While #2 is teaming up with #4

LOS says #1 should prevent #2 and #4 from getting together.
Why is 4) not harmful to #5? They can ride roughshod on #5 in every which way.
The reality is #1 wants to preserve #5 at all costs and the rest is a charade.
Now work on everything with this as the top objective of #1.

What's wrong with this picture?

US cannot digest emergence of a power that is absolutely independent. If you allow things as it is there is a potential of India being one such. Look at the number of India's Naval bases in Indian ocean, BIMSTIC and other types of trade groups.

With that backdrop, what if POL falls to India and Pak collapses? What if Chinese regime changes and there is some good understanding of India-Russia-China?
The west is coming to a point that above potential is emerging. To stop it you need to make India's most close associate as illegitimate international power. Hence Russia was made an illegitimate power via Ukraine so that anyone associating with Russia can be beaten. So in essence Russia is a stick against India. But in addition, Indo-Russia-China understanding can lead to fall of Pakistan. The US-Pak munna level relationship has to be revived. Hence Pakistan has to be 100% cutoff from China and make is as past gold. Hence goes Imran out and Bajwa the US-pasand jernail prevails.

Russia-illegitimacy stick and Pak being revised as check will keep India in check and not become independent power. (that's my summary take). In essence, the entire Ukraine-Russia stuff is targeted against India. Not Europe or Russia.

[Vayutuvan]

(Just as an aside, the Brits stole not only wealth but the basis of its science and math from India. Newton lifted the laws from Vaisesika Sutra lock stock and barrel which unleashed the industrial age on the world. Calculus was lifted from India. Of course the entire number system and decimal system too. )

bala gaaru,

You are making it too simplistic. It is true that the ideas were originally Indian, but Persians/Arabia/Europe did add value. Persians/Arabians came up with decimals, i.e. -ve powers of 10, i.e. division. India had only multiplications (AFAIK). Europe did industrialization during the renaissance of 1400s Italy. Artisans/artists developed paints, colors, engineering, arms industry, while India had succumbed to the Arabics/Mughals.

[Vayutuvan]

... plus a growing Hindu (via ISKCON) movement there.

Vidur ji, I am not so sure whether ISKON would make such a big difference. They do get a lot of publicity but does their influence on the ground live up to the hype?! I have my doubts. Russia would be some form of Christian country going forward.

[ricky_v]

But does this explain why US wants India to vote against Russia?
Its using 'carrot and stick' but at the other ends and expects cooperation.

Sir, let me explain in a roundabout manner
The US with its fast-changing demographics is changing from an individualistic / isolationistic mentality (predominantly european) to a collectivistic one (predominantly african, hispanic). A feature of this is the baggage of victim mentality (guilt for the whites in terms of holocaust classes, caste discrimination prevalence amongst hindus) which leads to a consensus on the anachronistic nature of the world-based order, as it was formed by people / ethnicities that did not account for many ethnic groups and their outlook. This persecution / victim / martyr complex leads them to conclude that the old rules (of international relationships) are redundant and must be remade to better reflect contemporary sensitivities that are not bound by borders or governments, and thus post-modernism.
Russia has its twinning of state and religion, but India's value system, along with the eu's is of upholding the rules-based order. Russia and China use it cynically, break when required and take its cover when necessary, the US wants to remake it, but only India and the EU are countries with any heft that support the old structure. In this sense, India's value system is against US' value system, EU is in a transitory state between being an independent entity and an extension of US' will which is why I believe that for them there is a movement towards the green value system which has adherents amongst the US psyche, and thus some alignment on the overarching geostrategy.
Also, upholding the rules-based order does not mean a state of stasis, but of incremental change, india accomplishes this with its students and professionals who alter the outlook of the host nation subtly, the meddlesome eu accomplishes this with its ngos.

[Vayutuvan]

EU is in a transitory state between being an independent entity and an extension of US' will which is why I believe that for them there is a movement towards the green value system which has adherents amongst the US psyche, and thus some alignment on the overarching geostrategy. ... the meddlesome eu accomplishes this with its ngos.

ricky_v ji, Both of these call for the US to degrade EU, not strengthen it. Trump/Jhonson both were for Brexit, but not Biden admin.

Ramana gaaru, what we might be missing is the factions within the US administration. The recent video of Obama being lionized while POTUS was wandering around is a small withness of what is going on in the background. To my mind, there are three-four factions among the Democrats - Biden (of course), Obama, Clinton, and the Radical left. Clinton faction does not wield much influence on the body politic because there is no profit in supporting Clintons. Biden had his chance and blew it. Harris is Obama's anointed successor. She is a biddable black woman. Biden is too white and a relic from the dixie democrat era. So Obama's faction is on the ascendancy, IMHO. Coming to GOP, there are at least two factions - Trump vs. the GOP establishment represented by McConnell, Romney, Pence.

Outwardly symptoms of the inner struggle are in plain sight for all to see. The confusing statements and flip-flopping by the Biden administration.

I suggest that each of those #1- #5 need to be sub-divided to get a better prognosis.

My two cents.

[ricky_v]

ricky_v ji, Both of these call for the US to degrade EU, not strengthen it. Trump/Jhonson both were for Brexit, but not Biden admin.

Sir, if you would consider this from a value perspective, then the EU is remaking the world order in its own way, enlarging its purview from core Europa to include North Africa and boasting of a truly cosmopolitan populace, inculcating people in its outlook akin to what the romans did with the germanics, which is congruent with the us' desire to remake the rules-based order but in a proto state; in short, the eu with its expanding population has set on the path of the us, if it continues without revision of upholding the existing order then it will have only internal strife, so they are morphing to the outlook of eco-fascism / green movement.
Old-world western outlook was: import people, extract resources, sell modified resources to people (unhealthy), medical care from the people, people gracelessly expire.
But the opposition to more resource extraction is very real and the movement of greens is gaining ground as the only viable long-term philosophy.
New outlook: Anti-natalism, replacement of children with pets / hobbies, nature preservation.
There is a large segment in the US that holds this viewpoint as well and thus they are aligned for the foreseeable future; the use of ngos to "break the shackles" of history in developing nations is also aligned with us' value system.

[Vayutuvan]

... replacement of children with pets / hobbies, nature preservation.

ricky_v ji, you do have a point there. I have come across people (of democrat/Liz Warren/The Bern supporters) who want homo sapiens to voluntarily go extinct. They hate animal experiments for the efficacy of drugs/vaccines, are vegetarian (even stridently vegan), organic to the extent of making their own organic paints and compost. They, surprisingly (or not so surprisingly) are educated in Catholic schools//convents. It is some kind of a coping mechanism to the lies perpetrated by the old/new testaments, especially the book of Genesis, I suppose.

(I will stop with the OT).

[bala]

You are making it too simplistic. It is true that the ideas were originally Indian, but Persians/Arabia/Europe did add value. Persians/Arabians came up with decimals, i.e. -ve powers of 10, i.e. division. India had only multiplications (AFAIK). Europe did industrialization during the renaissance of 1400s Italy. Artisans/artists developed paints, colors, engineering, arms industry, while India had succumbed to the Arabics/Mughals.

Saar, you are bowled over by the History concocted by the Brits and the West by dragging the Arabs/Persians into the mix. The entire Greek stuff is a plain lift from Indian Ideas. The Arabs/Persians did propagate the ideas of Hindoo mathematics and science to the West, but do read their original Al Khawarizmi, etc. They give credit to India unlike the Brit slimeballs who copied things from the Vedas and other sutras. Sringeri mutt (keeper of YajurVeda) lost all its original scripts when the brits created a false flag commotion and carted them over to Germany. Some of the Arabs/Persians came to India and studied under a Brahmin teacher. There was a ruler in Sudan who actually paid in Gold for such knawledge from India. BTW the British stonehenge is a depiction of the 27 star Nakshatra system of India.

what we might be missing is the factions within the US administration

This is all side shows. The real faction is the Deep State behind all the shenanigans in the US. Notice how quickly they dispatched V. Nuland madam to India. All the behind the scene people are quietly going about their focused goal of world domination and anyone getting in the middle is promptly being taken care of.

[bala]

4. #3 should never ally with #1 and #5 because they are its natural enemies. Can #2 be made to realise its civilisation similarity to #3 ? #2 has started making some overtures. If #3 can rediscover its own civilisational and religious roots and also hold on to its ground vs #3 it can signal strength and clarity to #2 which will make #2 respect it. This may lead to a resolution of disputes with #2 and allow both to be independent but not competing powers

Good point and I made this point earlier. #2 and #3 were the former leaders in World GDP, #3 for a long time. The fact is they co-existed without any major tussle. The other fact is #3 is the cultural leader in Asia, most of its ideas were deeply accepted by Asia and practiced and #3 was the leader in a benign sense. If #3 can get a Asia NATO like arrangement and If #2,#3 and #4 get together as 1 cohesive unit then the rest are screwed, with no chance of domination. #3 and #4 have a good understanding. However there is tension between #2 and #3 and between #2 and #4. Now, after Ukr the latter are close, however #2 and #3 have an opening to re-consider things since the Quad is effectively shot.

Also I agree that #3 has to rediscover its civilizational/religious roots, despite all the current entanglement with #1, #5. No matter what this deep sense of the WATAN called "Bharat" is within each one of us, despite the Suit/Boot/Tie/Accent/Edu etc.

[Rudradev]

One thing among all these scenarios I will guarantee.

There will never, ever, ever be any workable "India-China understanding" in the foreseeable future. Nor will any grouping which requires such an understanding, such as "Russia India China", ever have any chance of stability or success.

The reason is simple, and it's not the political will of Russia or India. The reason is that China lacks the imagination to achieve any such thing, and always has.

China simply does not have a national culture where the freedom of thought, or the consideration of new perspectives, is tolerated (let alone encouraged). This goes back thousands of years before Communism, and it is a tradition that the CPC continues to uphold with unbroken vehemence.

If you think the US is too mired in institutional thinking, multiply that by 25 to estimate the sclerosis of China. At least in the US a Trump can sometimes emerge to challenge paradigms. In China that is simply not possible.

China is more blatantly exceptionalist & expansionist than even the US. China openly declares itself to have the Mandate of Heaven. Every institution internal and external, every civilization & country, has its prescribed Proper Place within that Mandate. India included.

And that Proper Place according to China is by no means acceptable to India-- any notions of "civilizational commonalities" be damned.

Shutting one's eyes to this reality is not strategic thinking. It is wishful thinking of the most irresponsible kind. If India forgets this & attempts to partner wirh the Chinese then it will get kicked in the teeth, as it was 60 years ago.

I trust Modi is smarter than Banditji, and that... after Ahmedabad & Mahabalipuram... he has both the brains and the experience to realize this for a fact.

[bala]

I think the stumbling block for #2 is the Communist Govt of #2 which is stuck on its blatant "exceptionalist & expansionist" mindset. There are a good number of people within #2 who don't think like that, they recognize that India gave them Buddhism and many of them accept Yoga. They also see commonality amongst their kind and the rest of Asia. The hardcore will cling onto their Govt mandated thinking but the rest, with Edu and forward development, are the change agents and I am not sure how long the people of #2 will agree with their govt. #3 has to move cautiously taking all factors into consideration. And Banditji was an idiot.

[Rudradev]

I must disagree. Traditional, imperial China did not become collectivized in 1949. It was the reverse... the Chinese Communist Party became imperialized. That was, in hindsight, inevitable.

Any form of organization or governance in that culture will collapse towards the gravitational pull of its traditional historical existence. In China, history has the crushing mass of a black hole.

For this reason, it's possible that a post-CPC China may actually be even more dangerous to its neighbours than the current one.

[ramana]

Folks please focus on thread title and not bring in Greeks and Persians.

[kit]

Keep your enemies closer
NEVER reveal your cards
TIME is precious , build up your economic and military strength., the bullies respect ONLY STRENGTH
NEVER appear weak
DONT get into multilateral trade pacts but only one to one FTAs to maximise market strengths., for India its market size is critical importance and the honey everyone wants
When in doubt OBFUSCATE ., if you dont know no one else needs to know

Let me ask you this sir: what did the eu gain by the large influx of middle-eastern / south asian immigrants following the arab spring that still continues irrespective of war and inflation? The majority do not contribute by working, whatever spending they affect on the economy is borne by the local government in the form of largesse, the government spends resources on their upkeep, suffers tensions in the social fabric and condones mixing of genetics of their people with others. And yet, the chief architect of the policy, Ms. Merkel, was popular till she left office of her own volition.

EU is a loose coalition that is becoming weaker as it becomes bigger., it should have stuck to its core identity and principles ..and built on it. EU as an entity would not last long., the Uke war is the beginning of that end. It might survive as a market federation but not political. Nor military.. but OT

[kit]

One thing among all these scenarios I will guarantee.

There will never, ever, ever be any workable "India-China understanding" in the foreseeable future. Nor will any grouping which requires such an understanding, such as "Russia India China", ever have any chance of stability or success.

Thats true., India and China are civilisational geopolitical states. Their strengths are in their differences. You cant wish away your neighbour. At some point both need to accept the other as equals and move on

At some stage the entire human race would depend on the dynamics of these giants., the west would fade away. fighting !

[ricky_v]

I think the stumbling block for #2 is the Communist Govt of #2 which is stuck on its blatant "exceptionalist & expansionist" mindset. There are a good number of people within #2 who don't think like that, they recognize that India gave them Buddhism and many of them accept Yoga. They also see commonality amongst their kind and the rest of Asia. The hardcore will cling onto their Govt mandated thinking but the rest, with Edu and forward development, are the change agents and I am not sure how long the people of #2 will agree with their govt. #3 has to move cautiously taking all factors into consideration. And Banditji was an idiot.

Bala sir, the government mandated thinking has its roots in the historical thought process of the chinese for examples in legalism. Even in historical times, buddhism has given way to confucianism, as societal order has always been the highest virtue of the chinese. When this order stumbles, mandate is lost and historical bloodbath ensues. The chinese are now focussed on ensuring that the mandate of heaven is never lost by the ccp, in other words an eternal kingdom with an ideological dynasty of ccp. They might accept yoga, they have accepted western music and arts, the number of cellists, ballet dancers, sculptors from china is higher than many western nations, but what does that ultimately mean? They are still intent on ensuring thraldom of other nations.
Also India for better or worse has not accepted its role of chakravartin in the neighbourhood, we are intent on upholding the established order with all its mechanisms.

[ricky_v]

EU is a loose coalition that is becoming weaker as it becomes bigger., it should have stuck to its core identity and principles ..and built on it. EU as an entity would not last long., the Uke war is the beginning of that end. It might survive as a market federation but not political. Nor military.. but OT

But sir that does not answer the question, why did the eu do it and why did the majority accept it as the right way forward?

[AdityaVM]

Folks please focus on thread title and not bring in Greeks and Persians.

Ramana garu, Namaskaram.

Happy Ramanavami to all.

I was thinking of writing how each from #1 to #5 interacts with the world in the following format.

1. Objectives they want to achieve.

2. Threats they face from each corresponding # and their strategies to mitigate them.

3. Failure conditions for each objective as defined in 1 for each # (Most important)

I think this will give us a better analytical setup. For good analysis one needs to define both Objectives and the conditions under which the objective is considered failed or lost.

I have written the Objectives part for #1 and will try to complete all and try to post them today.

[AdityaVM]

Folks please focus on thread title and not bring in Greeks and Persians.

Ramana garu, Namaskaram.

Happy Ramanavami to all.

I was thinking of writing how each from #1 to #5 interacts with the world in the following format.

1. Objectives they want to achieve.

2. Threats they face from each corresponding # and their strategies to mitigate them.

3. Failure conditions for each objective as defined in 1 for each # (Most important)

I think this will give us a better analytical setup. For good analysis one needs to define both Objectives and the conditions under which the objective is considered failed or lost.

I have written the Objectives part for #1 and will try to complete all and try to post them today.

#1 US Objectives :

Prevent the emergence of another peer competitor at all costs. By peer I mean in all aspects. Economic, Military, Technology and most importantly Ideological. The monopoly over the idea of what the future of humans could and should look like i.e an ideological peer that fundamentally challenges the doctrine of Manifest Destiny of USA. (American Exceptionalism) To sabotage these potential competitors, Evanjehadi Abrahamic ideology and conversions is the tool for us, Sanctions designed to cause regime change and balkanisation of Russia is the tool for Russia. EU anyway is under their thumb. China is too internally focused for its ideology to have global acceptance.

Make sure that none of their neighbours have the capacity to threaten them. AKA Monroe doctrine.

To keep up the hegemony of the Dollar at all costs. Make sure to throttle and choke any idea no matter how small, of the efforts to break its Economic hegemony without which it can not maintain its military spending. Ready to accept G2 with China if it means US can keep its Dollar hegemony.

To avoid its own faultlines from overwhelming its society and body politic. Race, the widening gap between Rich and Poor, the Vanishing Middle class, Polarised Polity of Red vs Blue etc.



#2 PRC Objectives.

Maintain the Hegemony of the CCP in China at all costs to the Chinese society and Civilization. Tighten internal security, Purge all ambitious people from CCP to protect Dear Leader and Use brutal force to control Tibet and East Turkestan.

Create a new Middle Kingdom, with Tributary systems with all of Asia as direct vassals and Rest of “Oceania” as indirect vassals. Prevent India-US Alliance, Make sure Quad dies a silent death etc. Prop up Pak with free advanced tech to box India in Subcontinent. Neuter Japan and SK with Nuclear threats. Pretend to acquiesce to US proposal for G2, while actively sabotaging US Society by exporting Drugs and bribing the politicians.

Replace USA with PRC being the sole pole of a Unipolar world, along with all the attendant advantages it brings to them. ( Having CNY become the reserve currency of the world ala Dollar and thus giving them the Golden Credit Card to spend as much as they want with the rest of the world bearing the inflationary consequences of such spending. )

Avoid the Cycles of Collapse of the Chinese (Han) people and transcend the cycles of Collapse, Warfare and another Empire. They would hope to do this by iron grip on Chinese society in all aspects. Become the Empire that never falls. That inherits the Mandate of Heaven for all time.



# 3 India Objectives

Keep the economic growth up at a constant high rate, especially during the “Amrit Kaal” as defined by Modiji. The demographic sweet spot that extends for 25 years from 2020. Upskill the young population in order to take advantage of the demographic collapse that will hit the West soon. Prop up manufacturing in the country to cater to internal market and exports, become Atmanirbhar in everything, especially Space and Mil Tech. Grow the economy to the size of Present PRC by 2040.

Extending the Civilizational Overton window to shape the environment both Internally and Externally, for decisive changes to protect Indic Civilisation. ( Constitutional changes, Arresting H Demographic Freefall, NRC, Free Temples etc..) Increase interactions with and use the Diaspora as interest and Pressure groups in the west to shield India from Abrahamic pressure groups like USCIRF etc.

Protecting and reclaiming the Civilisational inheritance of Bharat. Reclaiming our original place as the place everybody went to learn the Science of the Self. Cap,Roll back and Elliminate the Abrahamic Digestion of Indic concepts and inheritance.

Prevent the Evanjehadi Abrahamic nexus from getting a decisive foothold in our Civilisation. (Whatever foothold that Evanjehadi nexus has managed to gain can be reversed with the right legislative push, societal awakening and political backing. Whatever happened is not irreversible but this cannot be said a decade down the line) Become the representative of Non Abrahamic religions in the World Polity voicing their interests and pointing out the hypocrisy of the Abrahamic centredness of the UN Discussions on religions and religious freedom.

Cause and Manage the collapse of Pakistan as a viable state by 2030, get back PoK to break the connect between Chi-Pak. Deal with the Chinese threat by strengthening Border Infra and induction of desi weapons. De incentivize PRC from pursuing a "Kill the Chicken to scare the Monkey " strategy by using India as the Chicken.

# 4 Russia Objectives

Reclaim the Soviet Sphere of influence, and secure the frontier states of Russia to prevent a threat to Russia Proper as has been the case historically. Ukraine is first step.

Prepare for a Post-Putin world by achieving all security objectives in his Presidency before his passing. Then using P’s death as a point to negotiate another “Détente’ with the West.

Maintain enough of a technological edge to threaten # 1 and #2 along with keeping #3 Dependant on it for advanced military technology. Prevent #1 - #3 Alliance.

Reject the Economic Dependency on the West and create a RIC economic bloc to Challenge the West Collectively. Graduate from being a commodity exporter to the Value added economic engine role.

#5 EU Objectives

Prevent the fracturing of the European Political Identity. Align more closely with #1 for it is the only power capable of hard power projection, barring France. Try to push back against #2 in economic dependence.

Balance the power differentials emerging from Post Ukraine Crisis Re arming to Prevent History from repeating itself. The Post WW2 peace can be an aberration instead of a natural consequence of economic development.

Counteract the various National identities that are emerging as a reaction to Jehadi infiltration of European society. Support the emergence of leaders with hard-line security views towards Islamic threats to prevent uncontrollable societal convulsions and churn.

Increase Trade and Economic relations with India to counteract Chinese dependency, at the same time funding NGOs to prevent India’s Economic development. Resulting in India being just a Food surplus country with a lot of people willing to work for a penny that can be exploited. AKA Modern Colonial mentality. Basically, turn the entire country into one giant Gungadin.

[Cyrano]

EU is a loose coalition that is becoming weaker as it becomes bigger

EU was created to prevent a future intraeuropean war. Free market access and huge financial aid to weaker countries is the lollipop to prevent any member country from thinking independently and forming blocs with others in or outside EU. Thinking Independently comes only with some military power. To prevent this, NATO ensures no one really gets militarily strong and all remain dependent on US. Thats why US keeps funding NATO. Trump didn't get this bigger game and went about antagonising EU states. US deepstate screwed him and got Biden in, when he came and said "US is back" he meant US is back to humping EU and using it to regain its global hegemony.

EU is war scared and woke-bombed, but wants to overcome colonial-guilt. The viciousness of EU on sanctions on Russia is to prove to itself that it can still be bad-ass in the paint-ball game. Real bad-ass is always the US, but hey now Russia is showing it has lost none of its teeth

US, in a bid to re-affirm its supremacy has provoked and tricked Russia into this war. Like a lion setting a pack of hyenas on a rival bear. The bear can eventually defeat the pack of hyenas but will emerge battered and bruised from the fight. The lion then hopes to move in for the kill. However there are some tigers and pandas in the jungle watching the proceeds and are calmly sharpening their claws while evaluating next moves. The pack of hyenas will anyway regroup and go back to scourging for scraps, bickering among themselves.

[Manish_Sharma]

....india accomplishes this with its students and professionals who alter the outlook of the host nation subtly, the meddlesome eu accomplishes this with its ngos.

All evidence to contrary most of the Indian students in west are thoroughly brainwashed by west and are influenced completely by western thought of the day. Few examples of exceptions only prove the rule.

Even the business houses who get business from west become part of the army of their brown Sepoys narayanmurti, mahindra, tata look at their acts narayanmurti saying on a forum in usa that we were nation of snakecharmers an british civilised us. TATA institute , mahindra college compete with dantewada university and jnu on BIF Kashmir issues.

[Mort Walker]

EAM and Raksha Mantri are in the US for the 2+2 dialog which begins today 10 April to 15 April 2022.

https://www.livemint.com/news/india/ind ... 35401.html

There isn't much coverage in either the US press or the Indian press; however, much of the Indian press tends to report from western wire and disreputable fake news sources like BloomB, FT, BBC, NYT & WaPo.

It is somewhat disturbing that POTUS referred to his 17,000 mile trek in the Himalayas with Chairman Xi.

[Amber G.]

Breaking news: Apart from 2+2 dialog there is a Biden-Modi virtual meet .

This comes just 10 days after New Delhi hosted Russian foreign minister Lavrov - (the only foreign minister who got an audience with PM Modi during India visit.)

[Mort Walker]

Biden is not in charge, but it is Ron Klain (Chief of Staff) that any GoI officials should be meeting. Biden suffers from dementia and doesn't know where he's at any time.

[bala]

Bala sir, the government mandated thinking has its roots in the historical thought process of the chinese for examples in legalism. Even in historical times, buddhism has given way to confucianism, as societal order has always been the highest virtue of the chinese. When this order stumbles, mandate is lost and historical bloodbath ensues. The chinese are now focussed on ensuring that the mandate of heaven is never lost by the ccp, in other words an eternal kingdom with an ideological dynasty of ccp. They might accept yoga, they have accepted western music and arts, the number of cellists, ballet dancers, sculptors from china is higher than many western nations, but what does that ultimately mean? They are still intent on ensuring thraldom of other nations.

RickJi, personally I am opposed to #2. However, #1 is itching for fight between #2 and #3 and hence the Quad. This would knock of both #2, #3 for a while. Also note how eager #1 is trying to forge the fight and pretending to be on #3 side while it has its economic fangs deeply embedded in #2. Previously #1 tied up with #2 to spite #4 (which was #2) and they succeeded to the most part weakening #4 to its current status.

Also India for better or worse has not accepted its role of chakravartin in the neighbourhood, we are intent on upholding the established order with all its mechanisms.

This is the part that is vexxing. #3 has all the capabilities but is still tied to Ahimsa of Gandhi (another concept thrust on #3 by the Brits). A Chanakya person would flex their muscle appropriately. Hope in coming days #3 realizes the folly and corrects course.

[bala]

All evidence to contrary most of the Indian students in west are thoroughly brainwashed by west and are influenced completely by western thought of the day. Few examples of exceptions only prove the rule.

Even the business houses who get business from west become part of the army of their brown Sepoys narayanmurti, mahindra, tata look at their acts narayanmurti saying on a forum in usa that we were nation of snakecharmers an british civilised us. TATA institute , mahindra college compete with dantewada university and jnu on BIF Kashmir issues.

The McCauley Doctrine holds true for the "Coconut" Upper/Middle class in #3, who dismiss all the Nalanda/Taxilla Univ precedent and the rich science/math background of #3. I would contend that the basis of all western science/math is purely based on the original work of #3. In terms of philosophy/logic/medicine and other areas it was the beacon for the entire world, quietly usurped by the Brits successively. The Brits suppressed the works of Shivkur Talpade in Bombay chowpatty beach when he demonstrated a flying 'Vimana' based on ancient Sanskrit text prior to the Wright Brothers - Shivkur's first flight.

[Vayutuvan]

Breaking news: Apart from 2+2 dialog there is a Biden-Modi virtual meet .

This comes just 10 days after New Delhi hosted Russian foreign minister Lavrov - (the only foreign minister who got an audience with PM Modi during India visit.)
[img...]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FP_LCDaaUAc ... name=large[/img]
[img...]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FP_LCtzaAAM ... name=large[/img]

Thanks for posting both announcements - The US one and the Indian one. The differences in the wording and what issues are stressed are interesting, to say the least. US says "brutal war by Russia" and India says "International issues of mutual interest". Pres. Biden is going to "pressurize" PM Modi once more before coming to the table for an agreement to be brokered by India?

[Cyrano]

Of course, they will put lots of pressure on us to tow the their line on Ukraine. But Modi and SJ can deal with it, no problem.

But how can they do to put pressure back on the US? What will be our demands?