Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Apr 2022 22:52

Vips Where did you get the info about popup test?

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 06 Apr 2022 03:00

It is from one of the Defence Channel AV's on Youtube.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Apr 2022 04:43

Oh!Thanks.
Wonder how they get to know.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 06 Apr 2022 05:05

You post anything on Twitter, BRF or DFI with conviction and these people will pick it up. I believe a few months back some guys on dfi trolled them into publishing some made up news.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 06 Apr 2022 07:23

Even Alfa defense Hindi was speculating about a pop up test. Because of one of the NOTAM off Vizag. So perhaps there is something to that.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Apr 2022 07:52

Delhi is leaking like a cheap chai strainer. Such things need not be disclosed.
Did the US disclose with fanfare the hypersonic test in March?
They disclosed much later.

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 06 Apr 2022 21:50

Vips wrote:It is from one of the Defence Channel AV's on Youtube.

Guesstimate of some twitter posters will large following gets picked up and amplified..

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 06 Apr 2022 23:13

So much for the supposed technical error of the recent BrahMos launch which landed in Pakistan.

In the absence of technical error, the only option left is human error

BrahMos deal with Philippines will move ahead on bilateral basis: envoy
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 293604.ece
05 April 2022

“I did have an opportunity to speak to Philippines Defence Secretary Delfin Lorenzana and our Ministry of Defence has clarified. There was a query and we responded with the fact there was no technical issue as far as we could understand it. There is an inquiry underway, we will have that cleared once the information is available,” Mr. Kumaran said in a webinar on ‘The Philippines: India’s new Indo-Pacific partner’ organised by the Ananta centre. There is definitely a degree of confidence in the system because of the fact that India uses the system widely, he stated.

kit · Post by **kit** » 07 Apr 2022 01:52

As least Pak knows now that a single Brahmos can cause a regime change

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 07 Apr 2022 01:59

Some people were speculating that the missile flying through Paki airspace was actually a customer demo firing for the Philippines, Vietnam and others.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 07 Apr 2022 13:16

kit wrote:As least Pak knows now that a single Brahmos can cause a regime change

And pant wetting fol oul nolden neighboul

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 07 Apr 2022 20:22

2 thoughts on this:

1) The Philippines has a high degree of confidence in the Brahmos *mainly* because the Indian Armed Forces have inducted it in numbers. So, by not inducting our other platforms, the Armed Forces are doing a dis-service to our export potential

2) Though its a small likelihood event, it should be probed whether the officer who "accidentally" launched the Brahmos was made/induced to accidentally launch it, thus putting a spanner in the works of our ongoing Brahmos sale to the Philippines

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 08 Apr 2022 14:47

https://twitter.com/alpha_defense/statu ... 5564293125

Flight trial of SFDR booster was conducted from Integrated Test Range, Chandipur today around 10:30 am. Test successfully demonstrated reliable functioning of all critical components involved in complex missile system & met all mission objectives.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 08 Apr 2022 17:18

further details by Shiv aroor
https://www.livefistdefence.com/indias- ... sfdr-test/

If the Indian Air Force’s unusual satisfaction and eagerness with the indigenously developed Astra air-to-air missile is any indicator
, then a technology test conducted on India’s east coast last week should clear the decks for some serious joy ahead.

Last Friday
the Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO) tested a complete solid fuel ducted ramjet (SFDR) propulsion system from a ground based launcher, blasting a missile system to a high altitude and achieving speeds in excess of Mach 3. Unlike the Astra, which rides on a smokeless solid fuel rocket motor, SFDR technology — a $70 million joint effort since 2013 by India and Russia — takes every performance aspect of the Astra to the next level, crucially range, sustained speed and kinetic energy during the difficult endgame phase when such missiles close in on normally manoeuvering targets.

The Friday test was a big step up from the debut SFDR test conducted last May when the weapon fired sported only a nozzle-less booster and not the actual ducted ramjet system (with a boron-based sustainer) that powers in later to send the missile screaming across long ranges with minimal dissipation of energy. The big plan is for the SFDR-powered missile to closely mirror the world’s currently most advanced air-to-air missile, the MBDA Meteor, a system that the Indian Air Force will operate on its Rafale fighters arriving this year, and has been hoping to deploy on other platforms too but has hit an integration roadblock.

With the Astra in a final stage of acceptance trials with the Indian Air Force before entry into service (later this year is the hope), with the SFDR technology, the DRDO will be looking to replicate a template of close ground-up coordination with the IAF, concurrent engineering and a plan that allows pilots to discover the capabilities of the missile as it’s being developed, instead of simply being saddled with a developed system at the end, with a hope and prayer that they like what they’ve got.

“The SFDR technology will be a legacy leap in our air combat weaponry,” said an Indian Air Force officer embedded with the SFDR development team, speaking to Livefist on condition of anonymity. “The Astra itself is turning out to be a very capable weapon system, even beyond some of our expectations. With SFDR, as they say, the sky is the limit. We are waiting to see what else this technology can demonstrate, especially from air launches and sustained velocity tests, which we will be gearing up for later this year.”

Last year, the Astra missile system also transitioned from a Russian-built seeker to an Indian Ku-band seeker — an enormous leap, considering India’s traditional dependence on Russia for these critical computers that actually guide missiles to their targets. This development will carry forward and be fine-tuned on the SFDR-based weapon, a crucial requirement for the higher performance weapon.

A senior DRDO scientist with the missiles and munitions cluster told Livefist, “This is a strategically very critical program with our Russian partners. The first application will be a new air-to-air missile and all current work will be dedicated towards achieving that. The IAF has been a very good partner for us on the Astra, and we are looking forward to carrying that ahead with this new technology.”

In 2016, during ground tests, the DRDO had revealed that the SFDR-powered weapon would sport a range of 120 km at speeds of 2.3-2.5 Mach, though these specifications are understood to have been revised upward now. The DRDO and Russia have worked together on the development and testing of the nozzle-less booster, boron-based ramjet sustainer and fuel flow controller, in addition to the design of the the dual air intakes. The $70 million program aims to achieve demonstrable finality by summer 2020, by which time the Indian Air Force — as with the Astra — will guide an acceptance phase. Engineering design and wind tunnel testing on the new missile is still under way and is likely to see changes as the SFDR system progresses through testing.

With SFDR tech now up and rolling, the Indian Air Force will basically get to craft its air-to-air missile payloads around three systems in the medium term: the MBDA ASRAAM for close combat heat-seeking duties, the Astra for beyond visual range and the Meteor+SFDR at the higher end. Theoretically, the SFDR weapon will be deployable across the IAF’s fleet, from the LCA Tejas to MiG-29s and Su-30s. But whether the missile will be a fit on the Rafale remains to be seen. Either way, the success of the program could potentially satiate the Indian Air Force’s need for a higher performance beyond visual range missile with fleet-wide integration.

Senior defence journalist Vishnu Som said on Twitter, “What this means is that India is on the verge of mastering game-changing missile technology which will enable a jet fighter like the Tejas to launch an air to air missile that will travel at between Mach 3 and Mach 7 towards a Chinese fighter likely upwards of 300 km away.”

Defence analyst and writer Mihir Shah says, “This is great news. It may still take a decade for a missile based on this tech to become operational, but it will provide a significant boost to our air power. SFDR + Astra + ASRAAM should make for a formidable combination.”

Haridas · Post by **Haridas** » 09 Apr 2022 03:19

ArjunPandit wrote:further details by Shiv aroor
https://www.livefistdefence.com/indias- ... sfdr-test/

You are quoting an old article from February, 2019.

Haridas · Post by **Haridas** » 09 Apr 2022 03:24

Rakesh wrote:So much for the supposed technical error of the recent BrahMos launch which landed in Pakistan.

In the absence of technical error, the only option left is human error

Besides Gen Vipin Rawat CFT by CO of HU unit, we have glaring records of IAF CO's flouting rules and common sense.
You think IAF HQ DASI examiners was not witness to Brahmos firing ?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Apr 2022 08:29

I like Deadhand quoting Mihir Shah our own elmiro!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Apr 2022 08:31

Vips wrote:4 Notam's issued :

One is supposed to be for the 'Pop-Up' test of K5 SLBM.

So the test scheduled for 8 April is SFDR and is over.
Rest are all 11 April thru 16 April

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 09 Apr 2022 12:41

ArjunPandit wrote:https://twitter.com/alpha_defense/statu ... 5564293125

Flight trial of SFDR booster was conducted from Integrated Test Range, Chandipur today around 10:30 am. Test successfully demonstrated reliable functioning of all critical components involved in complex missile system & met all mission objectives.

Just to recap.

On 31 May 2018, DRDO announced the successful flight test of this missile from a ground launcher. The DRDO announcement said, “The technology of nozzle less booster has been successfully demonstrated in the mission for the first time in the country”. On February 8, 2019, DRDO announced another successful flight test of SFDR. DRDO release said, “Missile was guided to high-altitude to simulate aircraft release conditions and subsequently nozzleless-booster was ignited. SFDR based missile accelerated to achieve ramjet mach number successfully. Ground booster, separation of ground-booster and nozzle-less-booster performance were found satisfactory.” In this test, probably, ducted ramjet was not ignited. On 5th March 2021, DRDO announced successful testing of the ducted ramjet part too. On December 17, 2021, DRDO announced another successful test where many critical technologies were validated.

Kanoji · Post by **Kanoji** » 09 Apr 2022 17:03

SSridhar wrote:
ArjunPandit wrote:https://twitter.com/alpha_defense/statu ... 5564293125

Flight trial of SFDR booster was conducted from Integrated Test Range, Chandipur today around 10:30 am. Test successfully demonstrated reliable functioning of all critical components involved in complex missile system & met all mission objectives.
Just to recap.

On 31 May 2018, DRDO announced the successful flight test of this missile from a ground launcher. The DRDO announcement said, “The technology of nozzle less booster has been successfully demonstrated in the mission for the first time in the country”. On February 8, 2019, DRDO announced another successful flight test of SFDR. DRDO release said, “Missile was guided to high-altitude to simulate aircraft release conditions and subsequently nozzleless-booster was ignited. SFDR based missile accelerated to achieve ramjet mach number successfully. Ground booster, separation of ground-booster and nozzle-less-booster performance were found satisfactory.” In this test, probably, ducted ramjet was not ignited. On 5th March 2021, DRDO announced successful testing of the ducted ramjet part too. On December 17, 2021, DRDO announced another successful test where many critical technologies were validated.

May be DRDO is following the "Prithvi missile test" template. A decade ago when IGMDP was still on and Agni and its technologies were still being perfected there were many press releases from IGMDP which followed the same template namely - "The Prithvi missile was tested from Wheeler island. It met all parameters ... "

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 09 Apr 2022 17:47

Haridas wrote:
ArjunPandit wrote:further details by Shiv aroor
https://www.livefistdefence.com/indias- ... sfdr-test/
You are quoting an old article from February, 2019.

i quoted intentionally sir, just to bring back some details around sfdr..dont see a lot of technical details on brf these days

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 09 Apr 2022 19:36

ramana wrote:
Vips wrote:4 Notam's issued :

One is supposed to be for the 'Pop-Up' test of K5 SLBM.

So the test scheduled for 8 April is SFDR and is over.
Rest are all 11 April thru 16 April

While 3 tests are scheduled at Balasore, the test scheduled in Vishakhapatnam between 11th and 14th April is the one to watch out for.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 11 Apr 2022 16:09

Anti-Tank Guided Missile ‘HELINA’ successfully flight-tested

Anti-Tank Guided Missile ‘HELINA’, launched from an indigenously-developed helicopter, was successfully flight-tested at high-altitude ranges on April 11, 2022. The flight-test was jointly conducted by the teams of scientists of Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), Indian Army and Indian Air Force, as part of the user validation trials. The flight trials were conducted from an Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH) and the missile was fired successfully engaging simulated tank target. The missile is guided by an Infrared Imaging Seeker (IIR) operating in the Lock on Before Launch mode. It is one of the most advanced Anti-Tank weapon in the world.

In continuation to validation trials conducted at Pokhran, proof of efficacy at high altitudes paves the way for its integration on ALH. The trials were witnessed by senior Army commanders and senior scientists of DRDO.

Raksha Mantri Shri Rajnath Singh congratulated DRDO and the Indian Army for the maiden achievement through joint work. Secretary Department of Defence R&D and Chairman DRDO Dr G Satheesh Reddy congratulated the teams for the commendable job performed in difficult conditions.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 12 Apr 2022 09:23

About six months back, the PD of Helina/Dhruvastra had said all trials were complete and it was expecting Acceptance of Necessity (AoN) from MoD. This test seems to be specially for high-altitude ranges now that the Chinese have positioned their tanks in Ladakh. The test 'paves the way for its integration on ALH' is wrong. LCH could be a different story.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 12 Apr 2022 09:36

This was from september 2021
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 556641.ece

The helicopter-launched Nag Anti-Tank Guided Missile (ATGM), Helina, being developed indigenously, has completed all trials and the process for issuing of Acceptance of Necessity (AoN) by the Army has started, said Dr. Sachin Sood, Project Director of Helina and Dhruvastra at the Defence Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL) Hyderabad, a laboratory of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

“The launcher and missile are ready. There are some Human Machine Interface (HMI) to be realised which are going on now,”.....Once the AoN is issued, the Request for Proposal (RFP) will be issued. Some firing trials will be done from the first production lot by the Army at a later stage.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 12 Apr 2022 09:38

Thanks Anujan for the post.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 12 Apr 2022 10:39

Is this human machine interface a DRDO effort. Which the army will sign off once executed?

Or the Army has told the DRDO what it is specifically looking for and DRDO has to diliver.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 12 Apr 2022 10:49

Pratyush wrote:Is this human machine interface a DRDO effort. Which the army will sign off once executed?

Or the Army has told the DRDO what it is specifically looking for and DRDO has to diliver.

The HMI things generally will be feedback from the test pilots to the DRDO team.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 12 Apr 2022 14:20

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/15137239 ... T8Buit4Ysg

India today carried out a successful test firing of Helina anti-tank guided missile from the indigenous Advanced Light Helicopter in high altitude areas of Ladakh. The missile was tested yesterday also in same area where it successfully hit a simulated tank target: DRDO officials

https://twitter.com/DRDO_India/status/1 ... T8Buit4Ysg (Video)

As part of ongoing user validation trials, Anti-Tank Guided Missile ‘HELINA’ successfully flight tested again today for a different range and altitude.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 12 Apr 2022 19:30

It seems that the pre production missiles are getting tested. As a prelude to final approval and orders.

mody · Post by **mody** » 14 Apr 2022 18:47

This is a user validation trial. The firings are being conducted by a joint team of IA, IAF assisted by DRDO. These are not developmental trials and are a test firing by the user. I think similar trials were conducted in Rajasthan as well, for the mandatory hot condition trials.
These trials should now pave the way for placing LSP orders for integration with ALH-Mark IV or Rudra. The integration and test firings from LCH are yet to be conducted. All the tests of the Helina have so far been conducted from ALH-Rudra platform only.
Once the LSP LCH are handed over to the IA and IAF, then the integration trials will begin. Hopefully DRDO would have carried out their necessary development work for integrating the Helina with the LCH by then.

Don't know what the difference between the Helina and Dhruvastra are? The later is supposed to be the IAF version and probably has a different launcher. But why this is required is a mystery. Why a different launcher for the same missile from the same platform?

bharathp · Post by **bharathp** » 14 Apr 2022 20:47

mody - I thought both HELINA and DHRUVASTRA are same (also says same on wiki, but that could be dobted?)

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Apr 2022 00:29

Some minor tweak to delay deployment on helicopters.

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 15 Apr 2022 01:51

bharathp wrote:mody - I thought both HELINA and DHRUVASTRA are same (also says same on wiki, but that could be dobted?)

they are the same.. initially it was thought that DHRUVASTRA was the launcher but a DRDO tweet confirmed that its infact the IAF version.

mody · Post by **mody** » 15 Apr 2022 15:40

The launcher for the IAF is supposed to be a little different, at least it appears to be from some pictures from DefExpo type exhibitions. The reason for asking for modifications in the launcher by the IAF though, is not clear. The basic missile remains the same.

Now the work for integration on the LCH will start and after the DRDO-HAL tests, again the user trials in all types of terrain and weather conditions will follow. The services complain of bureaucratic delays, but I guess it only applies to foreign imports. For desi maal, the services themselves throw the entire bureaucratic rule book that the vendors.
I don't expect to see the Helina on the LCH till end of 2023 or March 2024 at the earliest. In the meantime expect IA to ask for more Rudra and pine after the Apache (39 is what they seek as per reports).
The IAF would have inducted 22 Apache's and 10 LCH from the LSP order and also have a few Rudras. They will accept a few more LCH as and when they come about.

mody · Post by **mody** » 16 Apr 2022 20:29

As if almost right on cue, there are some reports that IAF is interested in getting upto 48 additional Rudra helicopters. No such love for the LCH.

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 17 Apr 2022 23:43

So for the 4 Notams that were issued (valid for 12+ days), we just tested one type of missile - Helina?

Nothing on the Pop-Up test of K5

k prasad · Post by **k prasad** » 18 Apr 2022 10:00

Vips wrote:So for the 4 Notams that were issued (valid for 12+ days), we just tested one type of missile - Helina?

Nothing on the Pop-Up test of K5

We ANNOUNCED the test of one type of missile. Doesn't mean others weren't tested.

basant · Post by **basant** » 18 Apr 2022 12:19

The length of the first appears to be around 30km and about 100km for the larger one. Helina comes nowhere near these requirements.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 18 Apr 2022 12:28

NOTAM was for tests in BoB and Helina test happened in Ladakh so completely unrelated