Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

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ldev
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by ldev »

Interesting article on the expected struggle of the Russian armed forces to replenish equipment lost in Ukraine. It's behind a paywall so I am posting small snippets.

Russian Military’s Next Front Line: Replacing Battlefield Equipment Destroyed in Ukraine
Russia’s heavy use and loss of weapons in Ukraine, combined with severe Western sanctions, will crimp its military might and lucrative arms exports for years, hindering its ability to produce everything from new weapons systems to spare parts for existing armaments.
Russia has also lost more than 3,000 pieces of large equipment in battle, according to Oryx, an open-source intelligence tracker. The tally includes more than 500 main battle tanks, 300 armored fighting vehicles, 20 jet fighters and 30 helicopters.

Russia in recent years has produced around 250 tanks and 150 aircraft annually, according to Mark Cancian, a senior adviser at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a think tank in Washington. That means Ukrainian forces in two months have destroyed the equivalent of at least two years of Russian tank production.
If the war drags on for months, consumption and destruction of Russian materiel, coupled with Western financial sanctions and export restrictions, will impede Moscow’s capacity to provision forces with better equipment, analysts say. Russian defense contractors will similarly struggle to meet demand from both Moscow and export customers, or to invest in research and the development of new products, say Western officials and analysts.

“Our sanctions have pulled back the military-industrial complex of Russia, and it’s not coming back any time soon,” said U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman in Brussels on Thursday.
Why there is unlikely to be a production surge anytime soon. If the war drags on and existing mothballed workable inventory of armor/munitions is exhausted, Russia will have a real problem
Russia’s military-industrial sector has shrunk from its Soviet scale, further complicating a production surge like during World War II.

“We don’t have the men, we don’t have the equipment, we don’t have the components,” said a Russian military analyst.
So India's payment installments for the S-400 have been affected
Hurdles even impede Russian defense exports that don’t rely on foreign inputs, due to sanctions imposed on Russia’s banking system. State-owned arms manufacturer Almaz-Antey said last month it was unable to receive roughly $1 billion in payment from clients, including India and Egypt, and urged the Russian government to help military companies by developing systems to process foreign transactions.

“Right now, because of the imposed sanctions, the processing of payments has stalled,” Almaz-Antey finance director Rustam Ulumbekov told Russia’s TASS news agency. “And the sums are colossal.
” Almaz-Antey didn’t respond to a request for comment.
The Russians like the Soviets before them do not believe in producing spare parts. This provides an answer as to why India has always had problems in securing Russian and before that Soviet spares for equipment.
Spare parts could pose another problem for Russia’s military, since even noncombat military operations quickly wear through gear. Soviet industry focused on achieving production targets of finished products, from shoes to fighter planes, with less attention paid to ongoing support for the products. Post-Soviet Russia’s defense industry has improved only slightly, say people who have worked with Russian factories.

For parts worn out in Ukraine, “being able to replace them is a protracted operation,” said a former American military official with more than two decades of experience working with Russian military equipment, who didn’t want to be identified. “They have never manufactured spare parts like we do.”
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by brar_w »

Short video clip of a destroyed Su-34. ECM pods can also be seen along markings for ID.

https://twitter.com/ukraine_af/status/1 ... NOHsPQ-Phw
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by John »

brar_w wrote:Short video clip of a destroyed Su-34. ECM pods can also be seen along markings for ID.

https://twitter.com/ukraine_af/status/1 ... NOHsPQ-Phw
Just an fyi this is not the one that was in free fall spin 2 days back and was supposedly shot down 4 days ago.

Ukr are claiming it is Su-25 from Ukr AF shooting down Su-25 from RuAF. I am skeptical but anyway here is video of it

https://twitter.com/canadianukrain1/sta ... TYDWKY_srw
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by ks_sachin »

bala wrote:We are concluding too many things without the perspective of long term strategy. So far Russia has kept the regions which it invaded - Abkhazia, Ossetia and Crimea. The portions of Luhansk, Donetz are as good as gone. Odesa, Mykolaiv and Transnistria are remaining to be taken out and eventually Ukr will be land locked. We can quibble about pace and loss of combat forces but these are things unique to each engagement. Those remaining areas of Ukr are another blah land of Europe whose strategic importance has diminished considerably. Europe is going to face untold problems in the coming years. Russia will take a loss in terms of the current engagement. However like a burnt forest always rejuvenates itself with better growth, Russia will bounce back. They have the resources and talent to make it happen and wars always re-energize people to do more.

Now consider the lands invaded by US Deep state - Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, etc. What has been the end result so far?
We shall see. So far they have been piss poor at most things…even during Soviet times they were a bit of an empty shell..
Their best talent does not want to stay under Putin.
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by bala »

ks_sachin wrote: We shall see. So far they have been piss poor at most things…even during Soviet times they were a bit of an empty shell..
Their best talent does not want to stay under Putin.
You are entitled to your opinion, but I have a different view about the Soviets/Russia. I grew up on Piskunov for math and of course admiration for talents like Sergei Korolev, Tsiolkovsky. Rig Veda talks about rus soviath sapthamahanagaratham (the ancient and holy land of the 722 flying vehicles). The Soviets were one half of the victors of WW-II and the US on the other side.
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by ks_sachin »

bala wrote:
ks_sachin wrote: We shall see. So far they have been piss poor at most things…even during Soviet times they were a bit of an empty shell..
Their best talent does not want to stay under Putin.
You are entitled to your opinion, but I have a different view about the Soviets/Russia. I grew up on Piskunov for math and of course admiration for talents like Sergei Korolev, Tsiolkovsky. Rig Veda talks about rus soviath sapthamahanagaratham (the ancient and holy land of the 722 flying vehicles). The Soviets were one half of the victors of WW-II and the US on the other side.
They may have won ww2 but what was the Soviet state like? What has it been under Putin?
Mind you I am no supporter of the West but Russian society is in no position to hold Putin to account for this disaster. As much as this was engineered by NATO and the US Putin walked into a trap.
Rig Veda and all that is fine and if that held true then Indian society would be the epitome of dharmicness yes?
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by brar_w »

Lets stick to the conflict, material, and tactics here. Civilization discussions and politics is probably apt for another thread.
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by ks_sachin »

brar_w wrote:Lets stick to the conflict, material, and tactics here. Civilization discussions and politics is probably apt for another thread.
Agreed although this does have its roots at a more philosophical level in a clash of civilisations and cultures.
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by ks_sachin »

Brar_W what if any learnings for the US Army esp wrt to armr warfare. Or had the Russian campaign been looked at with a degree of astonishment.
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by V_Raman »

this is a very reluctant fight. Russia does not want to hit ukraine too hard. it is unique from that perspective.
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by bala »

Putin walked into a trap
Why is it always others that walk into traps. Did Bush Sr, Jr, Clinton, Obama all walk into traps? This belittling of opposition is a media creation and the hangup of the Anglo-Saxon clan. I think Putin did a rational move and like a chess player he is slowly sqeezing out the opposition. The strategy is quite sound - opposing NATO expansion, the tactics we can question, JMT, etc.
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by John »

bala wrote:
Putin walked into a trap
Why is it always others that walk into traps. Did Bush Sr, Jr, Clinton, Obama all walk into traps? This belittling of opposition is a media creation and the hangup of the Anglo-Saxon clan. I think Putin did a rational move and like a chess player he is slowly sqeezing out the opposition. The strategy is quite sound - opposing NATO expansion, the tactics we can question, JMT, etc.
Folks we have another thread where you can discuss the dimension of chess Putin is playing or NATO-Russia politics, please keep this for combat tactics.
V_Raman wrote:this is a very reluctant fight. Russia does not want to hit ukraine too hard. it is unique from that perspective.
In terms of what we Russia has thrown everything it has. They have fired over 1000 missiles and we seen just about everything used. Biggest failure was RuAF failed in its SEAD operation early on partially could be due to expectation of a quick victory. Currently because of timelines it cannot switch back from air support to SEAD and as a result with enemy air defenses still very much active it cripples RuAF severely (it also doesn’t help that RuAF seems to lack PGM).
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by ks_sachin »

bala wrote:
Putin walked into a trap
Why is it always others that walk into traps. Did Bush Sr, Jr, Clinton, Obama all walk into traps? This belittling of opposition is a media creation and the hangup of the Anglo-Saxon clan. I think Putin did a rational move and like a chess player he is slowly sqeezing out the opposition. The strategy is quite sound - opposing NATO expansion, the tactics we can question, JMT, etc.
I have not questioned the strategy and am all for push back against the agenda of the west but the tactical execution.
That failure is what will bite Russia and has bitten it in the past. After this exhibition, I can only belittle the Russian expedition. War is a serious business and the men and material have to be viewed with some respect.
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by ks_sachin »

V_Raman wrote:this is a very reluctant fight. Russia does not want to hit ukraine too hard. it is unique from that perspective.
Is it possible to have half measures in a conflict like this?
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by YashG »

If russian military is degraded, russia will never attack europe (that it wudnt have anyways) then what is the point of even having nato.

I think the construct of nato will become more redundant after this war.
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by ks_sachin »

YashG wrote:If russian military is degraded, russia will never attack europe (that it wudnt have anyways) then what is the point of even having nato.

I think the construct of nato will become more redundant after this war.
But I don't think that NATO has been expanding to guard against Russia but its being used as a wedge to promote the liberal agenda.
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by bala »

please keep this for combat tactics
Yes, so far Ukr tactics are piss-poor. What have they accomplished with so much support by their big brother Nato and US Deep State. All I see is lost territory which is not coming back to them. The Russians have steadily gained ground. At the end of this exercise we can tally the counts of men and heavy equipment loss. The Western media is a crock of lies led by their chief liar the Brits, who plainly makeup nonsense. There is no command and control for the Ukr forces, I keep wondering how are they being led, what cohesive plan are they following. And the one of skirmishes simply don't count in the long run, JMT, etc.
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by ks_sachin »

bala wrote:
please keep this for combat tactics
Yes, so far Ukr tactics are piss-poor. What have they accomplished with so much support by their big brother Nato and US Deep State. All I see is lost territory which is not coming back to them. The Russians have steadily gained ground. At the end of this exercise we can tally the counts of men and heavy equipment loss. The Western media is a crock of lies led by their chief liar the Brits, who plainly makeup nonsense. There is no command and control for the Ukr forces, I keep wondering how are they being led, what cohesive plan are they following. And the one of skirmishes simply don't count in the long run, JMT, etc.
How did you expect the Ukrnians to fight Bala?
I think our expectations as to the objectives is quite different.
I see the Ukrainians are being very effective in what they set out to do. They realistically never had a hope of stopping the Russians did they?
Anyway we go into the world of combat tactics and strategic objectives here so lets leave it at that.
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by Pratyush »

My main concern is that with modern weapons that Ukraine is recieving from the west free of cost for the time being. The economics of war is shifting against Russia.

We might see a situation where a concentration of Ukrainian forces is able to overwhelm Russians in a local area. Do that 5 to 10 times and Ukrainians have enough momentum to push Russia out of the eastern provinces.
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by John »

Pratyush wrote:My main concern is that with modern weapons that Ukraine is recieving from the west free of cost for the time being. The economics of war is shifting against Russia.

We might see a situation where a concentration of Ukrainian forces is able to overwhelm Russians in a local area. Do that 5 to 10 times and Ukrainians have enough momentum to push Russia out of the eastern provinces.
They are getting arms but it is not enough to get any numerical advantage. Especially when Russia has air superiority they should be able to dictate the conflict, we have not seen any army get stalemated or loss in non insurgency conflict where they had air superiority (Iran-Iraq war is the only conflict that was close but by late 80s Iranian AF had recovered and was able to challenge IrAF) .
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by ks_sachin »

John wrote:
Pratyush wrote:My main concern is that with modern weapons that Ukraine is recieving from the west free of cost for the time being. The economics of war is shifting against Russia.

We might see a situation where a concentration of Ukrainian forces is able to overwhelm Russians in a local area. Do that 5 to 10 times and Ukrainians have enough momentum to push Russia out of the eastern provinces.
They are getting arms but it is not enough to get any numerical advantage. Especially when Russia has air superiority they should be able to dictate the conflict, we have not seen any army get stalemated or loss in non insurgency conflict where they had air superiority (Iran-Iraq war is the only conflict that was close but by late 80s Iranian AF had recovered and was able to challenge IrAF) .
They have air superiority but what is the volume of A2G missions?
What levels of PGMs do they have sir?
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by ManuJ »

Impact of sanctions being felt on Russia’s MIC.
Precision-guided missiles that rely on foreign semiconductor chips won’t be replaced once supplies are exhausted. Tank production at two Russian plants has stopped because of lack of foreign parts, according to Ukrainian reports.
https://apple.news/AmFUS7EpuRtmBeWR6ZaX2ew
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by rsingh »

ManuJ wrote:Impact of sanctions being felt on Russia’s MIC.
Precision-guided missiles that rely on foreign semiconductor chips won’t be replaced once supplies are exhausted. Tank production at two Russian plants has stopped because of lack of foreign parts, according to Ukrainian reports.
https://apple.news/AmFUS7EpuRtmBeWR6ZaX2ew
Wishful thinking. And Ruskie were fool enough to depend upon foreign chips. It not cold War 80s.
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by ManuJ »

With the US and the west now openly stating their strategic aim as being defeat of Russia and degradation of its military power, the quality and quantity of weapons being supplied to Ukraine is witnessing a paradigm shift.

Question is whether Ukraine can hold off for the next few weeks until these weapons come online and can be employed gainfully. I expect Ukraine to hunker down into a purely defensive posture and minimize loss of territory, equipment, and manpower till then.
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by YashG »

ks_sachin wrote:
YashG wrote:If russian military is degraded, russia will never attack europe (that it wudnt have anyways) then what is the point of even having nato.

I think the construct of nato will become more redundant after this war.
But I don't think that NATO has been expanding to guard against Russia but its being used as a wedge to promote the liberal agenda.
NATO/EU are tools of economic expansion. But in Ukraine this expansion seems to have hit a hard wall - kinetic wall. EU expansion has been a tool for reclaiming EU primacy in global world, that seems to have been and will eventually be taken up by Asia.
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by ks_sachin »

YashG wrote:
ks_sachin wrote:
But I don't think that NATO has been expanding to guard against Russia but its being used as a wedge to promote the liberal agenda.
NATO/EU are tools of economic expansion. But in Ukraine this expansion seems to have hit a hard wall - kinetic wall. EU expansion has been a tool for reclaiming EU primacy in global world, that seems to have been and will eventually be taken up by Asia.
NATO /EU are going around the wall and intact now have set their eyes on the next wall (Russia). Imagine a Russia in the EU!!!!
What happens if Putin is overthrown and a pliant oligarch is in power?
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by Pratyush »

A broken down and pliant Russia will be a gift for EU/US and a disaster for Indian interests.
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by vinod »

Pratyush wrote:A broken down and pliant Russia will be a gift for EU/US and a disaster for Indian interests.
Not to mention Chinese, the next target in line.
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by Pratyush »

China is not my concern, India is. The western world has with sanctions against Russia have thrown down the gauntlet.

Either submit to us. Or we will destroy you.

I may or may not be in favour of Russian aims. But I am against the threat to Indian independence in any way shape or form.
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by ks_sachin »

Pratyush wrote:China is not my concern, India is. The western world has with sanctions against Russia have thrown down the gauntlet.

Either submit to us. Or we will destroy you.

I may or may not be in favour of Russian aims. But I am against the threat to Indian independence in any way shape or form.
100 per cent.
Liberal democracy and social engineering my foot. First the west needs to fix the broken liberal path before seeking to foist it in others.
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by brar_w »

Back on topic - Looks like an ammunition depot has caught fire in Belgorod region. Cause not yet clear.
The governor of Belgorod said there is a fire at an ammunition depot near Staraya Nelidovka. A CCTV video shows a flash in the sky, possibly from anti-aircraft missiles. LINK (includes video )
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by John »

ks_sachin wrote:
John wrote: They are getting arms but it is not enough to get any numerical advantage. Especially when Russia has air superiority they should be able to dictate the conflict, we have not seen any army get stalemated or loss in non insurgency conflict where they had air superiority (Iran-Iraq war is the only conflict that was close but by late 80s Iranian AF had recovered and was able to challenge IrAF) .
They have air superiority but what is the volume of A2G missions?
What levels of PGMs do they have sir?
The amount of PGMs they posses appears to be quite low and also not all their planes have the pods to deliver them is my understanding. Even in RT videos they mostly show Su-34 carrying rocket pods and dumb bombs along with some stand-off weapons. But RuAF does posses a large fleet of Su-25 and Attack helos to make up for that but it does feel like their lack of proper strategy and tactics is hurting the utilization.
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by k prasad »

bala wrote:We are concluding too many things without the perspective of long term strategy. So far Russia has kept the regions which it invaded - Abkhazia, Ossetia and Crimea. The portions of Luhansk, Donetz are as good as gone. Odesa, Mykolaiv and Transnistria are remaining to be taken out and eventually Ukr will be land locked.
....
Now consider the lands invaded by US Deep state - Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, etc. What has been the end result so far?
When was the last time the US, UK, etc. invaded land contiguous to its borders? What happened then?

They captured Texas & California from Mexico, and held on to them. That of course was long time ago. More "recently", they annexed Guam, Hawaii, and the other territories, some of which were annexed from other imperialist powers. Let's not forget Guantanamo Bay and Diego Garcia

Borders in Western Europe have been settled since pretty much the end of WW2, and absolutely after the formation of NATO. Most of their overseas territories are islands or remnants of their colonial holdings, which they've kept (and would've done with Goa and the other territories if India had let them), or controlled and retained after WW2.

There is no real daylight between Russia and US/Europe -- it's just that Russia has regions contiguous to it whose borders it is trying to reshape and bring into the Russian Federation. If US/Europe were in similar situations, they'd almost certainly do the same.
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by John »

Just to stop another slew of unrelated back and forth. Once again this is not politics thread, please stick to combat tactics and weapons.

TB2 shot down in Russia today it was carrying MAM-C

https://twitter.com/osinttechnical/stat ... PJIYKirkrQ
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by Manish_Sharma »

As surmised here by different posters that Russia is exhausting fast and Putin might be looking for a face saving end.

But usa won't let zelensky end the war to keep bleeding Russia.

What if out of utter desperation as a sheer tactic Putin by mistake missile-hits Chernobyl or some other big reactor nearest to western borders. That too at the time when strong winds are blowing towards NATO nations.

Then admits mistake. Calls halt to SPECIAL MILITARY OPERATIONS and compassionately starts doing a NUCLEAR FALLOUT CONTAINMENT OPERATION, inviting western Europe to help too.

This will give breathing space to exhausted bear forces PLUS give time MIC to replenishing armaments.
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by John »

Russian trained dolphins being employed in Sevastopol, interesting how commercial satellite can lead to so much Open source analysis

https://twitter.com/covertshores/status ... PJIYKirkrQ
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/warsmonitoring/stat ... GCZq3bJK8g ---> Captured by Russian forces at Izyum. FIM-92 Stinger, FGM-148 Javelin, NLAW, Saab АТ4.

Image

Image

Image

Image
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by Deans »

Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/warsmonitoring/stat ... GCZq3bJK8g ---> Captured by Russian forces at Izyum. FIM-92 Stinger, FGM-148 Javelin, NLAW, Saab АТ4.
Russian media suggests that there are enough captured western AGTMs and MANPADS to equip an entire Army Corps (what Russia terms `Army').
Last edited by Deans on 28 Apr 2022 09:04, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by Deans »

Manish_Sharma wrote: What if out of utter desperation as a sheer tactic Putin by mistake missile-hits Chernobyl or some other big reactor nearest to western borders. That too at the time when strong winds are blowing towards NATO nations.
It's not as if radioactivity will pour out of a reactor if hit by a missile (whose containment dome is strong enough to withstand the average missile
hitting it). It'll have to be a very deliberate process. I think NATO will consider it an act of nuclear terrorism (worse than setting of a tactical nuke in Ukraine) and the consequences for Russia will be unpredictable.
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Re: Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Post by banrjeer »

Theres a lot of talk about poor Russian this and that...

We see a country whose Economy is comparable to that of Italy fielding less than 200,000 troops to capture/consolidate territory almost as big as Greece, rich in minerals and fuels and sea port and water supply secured, more prosperous than western Ukraine and populated by pro-Russian people.

A victory
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