Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

[Cyrano]

Another thing I like about this scheme is that it has no reversal impact or exit costs. If the Army finds out that due to unforeseen factors, the results are not satisfactory, they can just drop or stop the intake and in 4 years, these Agniveers will be out of the system. So no downside even in the worst case.

[nash]

These videos clear lot of thing about Agnipath/Agniveer for laymen like me.

[Thakur_B]

IMHO 4 years is too short. Upto 2 years would be spent in various kinds of training and on the job exposure. All you would get is 2 years of service in reality.

The duration should be 7 years instead of 4.

[ernest]

When these recruits join, they will be 10th pass. Most will come from rural backgrounds and vernacular medium education and may be unlikely to qualify for college. For them, the alternative to Agnipath is unemployment. After Agnipath, they will have 11 lac, a CV that makes them a lot more job ready and possibly a better chance at college admission.

Hit the bull's eye on this.

Agnipath is akin to a 4 year practical degree in soldiering. While, the quality of vast majority of our colleges are poor, and they don't help students get a job after 4 years, Agnipath will be a great alternative. It will allow Agniveers to build a work ethic, learn diverse skills, expand their worldview, while earning a decent salary. The ones that perform well in this, will go on to become full time soldiers (25%), getting placed in 'core' jobs. Some other 30% will get into CAPFs (as announced by the ministry). The rest can decide what to do with their skills and savings. They can apply for various exams, start their business, or get other jobs where their skill and work ethic is useful.

The skills that they will learn (drone piloting, logistics, operations, basic financial literacy) along with their discipline and rule following ability will make them attractive recruits for a lot of operations jobs. They'd be likely preferred over lazy grads from average colleges.

We hear a lot about unskilled grads, and lack of employable youth. This scheme will help in both skilling our youth in some basics of working a job,making employable youth out of them, while also providing employment.

Some enterprising ones among the Agniveers can start their business with their skills, network, and savings. at age 22, they'd have better chance of succeeding than most other grads. They can come back to their bnative places and speed its growth with economic activity and investment.

Some can go on to get higher education based on their skills, like diploma / MBA in HR, operations if that helps in getting better jobs.

So, it looks like Agnipath aims to kill multiple birds with one stone. It is going to demolish the old 'sarkari naukri' expectation where you are secure once you get in, and don't have to worry about getting better at your work. Instead, it provides a base of sarkari naukri that you can use to grow into a gainfully employable person, all at age 22. It aims to create the opposite of typical sarkari naukri aspirant that prepares for exams well into their 30s.

It seems like a natural stepping stone from NCC too. For a lot of rural youth this will bring an opportunity that did not exist before (as Deans pointed out). It will help a lot of youth realize their dream of serving in the armed forces in service of the nation. Some are saying that it is an internship. I think it is a pretty great internship opportunity.

On another point, it will help in bring newer generation skills with newer technology quickly for employment of the forces. Already new technologies like drones, AR/VR, are not easy to train for tenured soldiers. Agnipath will ensure a steady flow of newer gen into our force structure, the ones that can be easily trained for new age warfare.

Also, it is not going to replace the existing service routes. It only augments them for OR only. So the criticism that it will degrade service ethos is not a strong argument.

Let's hope that this broad aimed policy actually is successful

[RajeevK]

If 25% of the recruits go on to continue after four years, the armed forces get to filter the best of the lot. This will definitely make the organisation leaner and better trained. In addition the ones who will not be able adapt to the ethos of the organisation even after four years will be filtered out anyway. So the cohesiveness will be maintained.
Thousands of of Civil Services rejects have to adapt to reality when they are past the cut-off age. In this case the ones who do not end up continuing will at least be employed for four years, be trained and get a decent financial package.

[souravB]

My two cents would be to make it as advantageous for nation as possible
1) Add advantages in competitive exams for all government job like UPSC, IR, OFB etc. Maybe a 5-10% quota.
2) Banks give attractive education loan to the likes of given to the marginalized castes.
3) 5% seats reserved in LS.
4) Super easy entry into state and central police forces.

[hnair]

khan seem to have a five year service plan for westpoint/colo springs/Annapolis cadets. After that five year period, they can continue to serve fulltime as a career officer or can apparently go into reserve with a percent of salary and occasional training programs, as part of a contract to be called during surges. The reservists can actually get decently adjusted and go for higher-education courses in hip universities, with the the caveat they are always on call. This is really good for technical oriented youngsters. Tulsi Gabbard is one such reservist, who recently got promoted to a kernail, even though she is not in the fighting arms.

I came to know of this after talking to a young lad (son of a classmate), who just passed out of West Point a couple of weeks back and who visits us when in India. Seems like a good deal, if you don't step into a bad zone during an overseas tour and if you are deeply technical, can do quite well in civvie career too.

But khan has its weird stuff like our regional/caste recruitments, that I was trying to figure out. Apparently all the service academy applications need either a congressman, senator or oddly, the VP of US' reference letter in her capacity as the leader of the senate. The applicants have to submit lengthy essays (Why they want to serve etc)to these leaders,- followed by screenings by ex-service folks helping out the elected representative and then the elected representative will finally provide the reference after their own review. This is apparently the tough first step. Only after that comes the the service academy evaluations, CFA test etc which is no walk in the park. But not all is hunky-dory and after chatting with a gent who served in the army and is now an elected leader, I came to know that some congressional districts (our lok sabha constituency) with bigger community of erudite high school students (and having interest in service) gets short-shrifted, because each of these representatives have only limited quota of references they can do per year. So the gent was saying rural areas with lower standards of education gets less than optimal folks being handed out references because of a lesser number of applicants. My inference is that after the civil war, they did not want to have any specific regions dominating the officer cadre and thereby affecting the national character of the military, if there is no such quota. I suspect the original intention was to prevent another civil war, by letting the brighter rednecks in along with the really bright students of better school districts. Instead of just hiring only reckless rednecks or erudite boston brahmins.

What evens out such quirks for khan is the early realization among their military planners that reliance on computing and tech dominance will diminish any such unevenness in officer quality.

So in comparison, I would think this Agnipath is a good move
- It provides a fork in the road like khan's - career officer/jawan or reservist
- Ample opportunity for lateral intakes by age 21 from three-year technical college courses
- community/region based regiments can be normalized using standardized tests, but unlike khan, areas with good interest in service can still continue to have a certain dominance

It differs from chinese system in that there is no conscription and due to that, the incoming quality of recruits after the screenings are far more uniform. Chinese will soon move to that system, once their economy cools off or lil emperors go back in lil red boxes in some war

[Deans]

The scheme would work better if the short service soldiers are put in non fighting arms, where either you do not need a lot of experience (logistics, clerical) or need technical skills, which a lot of career soldiers do not have.
In the infantry, one possibility is that some regiments pilot the scheme in 1-2 Battalions of the regiment, with only Agnipath recruits of that community joining the regiment.

[ks_sachin]

So the criticism that it will degrade service ethos is not a strong argument.

Let's hope that this broad aimed policy actually is successful

That is a strong argument in combat arms where unit cohesion is based to a large extent on linguistic and cultural similarities between the troops. Less so in Combat support arms. Even in All India all Class regiments like the Guards these matters are considered I believe and are important. It also helps because for officers it is an easier way to understand what makes their men tick. A Jat is very different from a Thambi. JMT

But again nothing is holy. We have to try it out and give it the best chance for success while preserving important traditions and heritage that makes us such good fighting men and women.

Agree with the second point.

[VishnuS]

Another thing I like about this scheme is that it has no reversal impact or exit costs. If the Army finds out that due to unforeseen factors, the results are not satisfactory, they can just drop or stop the intake and in 4 years, these Agniveers will be out of the system. So no downside even in the worst case.

Cyrano ji, we will see the issues only after the battalions reach the composition of 50% regulars and 50% agniveers!!

This is composition that our current armed forces have agreed up on.

But, there are fears that as time goes on, this number will be skewed towards Agniveers.

Unfortunately, we will know true effects at least after 2 decades.

[ernest]

That is a strong argument in combat arms where unit cohesion is based to a large extent on linguistic and cultural similarities between the troops. Less so in Combat support arms. Even in All India all Class regiments like the Guards these matters are considered I believe and are important. It also helps because for officers it is an easier way to understand what makes their men tick. A Jat is very different from a Thambi. JMT

But again nothing is holy. We have to try it out and give it the best chance for success while preserving important traditions and heritage that makes us such good fighting men and women.

Agree with the requirement in current and historical setup. But going forward, we will see dilution in identities based on caste / region across India. We have to try alternatives. Anyway, I hope some preference is given to original recruitment pool, and the departure is gradual.

Like you said, nothing is holy, but have to balance the old and the new.

[chetak]

As usual, some joker has got ahold of the wrong end of the stick.

This is nothing but a marketing ploy to cover the real intent, which is to reduce the pension bills of the soldiers only. They simply do not have the testimonials to tinker with the terms of service or the pensionary payouts of the babooze and all other allied services.

It's like cutting your nose to spite the face.

Why is there no such scheme for "scientists" or defence civilians or paramilitary forces. Is it the old ploy to dilute the naam, namak and nishan ethos of the professional soldier and replace him with caricatures of the real mcCoy so that the chances of a coup are reduced.

This is the very last and in the end, the ultimate resource available to the country. By their apolitical and unbiased behavior, they have been given a special place in the hearts of the populace. Survey after survey places the forces at the top of the heap, in so far as trust, dependability, and loyalty are concerned. Is this what the babooze really want, to insidiously destroy the ethos of the forces by cleverly concocting a dazzling marketing ploy to convince their politico masters that the elusive pot of gold is just over the next hill.

It's no wonder at all they are having such a torrid time finding the next CDS.

the babooze have deliberately and consistently diluted the terms of their service, illogically pruned, and denied small benefits that make their tough lives and working conditions a tad bit easier

already quite a bit of the maintenance work in active units has been contracted out to the PSUs, depriving the services of their pool of trained manpower. If one were to employ such manpower directly on high performance fighters without having undergone the much needed grind of first training on simpler jets, it is a recipe for disaster

why tinker with a well oiled system that has consistently been delivering quality results for decades, even used by foreigners in WWI and WWII.

Bush wanted the IA to fight in eyeraq under ameriki command, but wiser heads in India shot it down

The defence civilians, ALL babooze of every description from all ministries, who from the bulk of the govt pensioners have been given the NFU, whereas the uniformed lot have been denied the same and they are only looking at increments in their pay and not promotions.

NFU implies that whenever an IAS officer gets empanelled at a particular appointment at the Centre, all other Group-A service officers are also upgraded to the same level after a period of two years from the date of empanelment, on a non-functional basis, irrespective of whether they are actually promoted or not.

finally,

If you think that pension is expensive, try defeat.

because that is where this harebrained scheme will lead you to.

[Prasad]

Please read this concise summation of our defence budgets and spending - https://prsindia.org/budgets/parliament ... is-defence

28% of defence spending is Pensions. Defence Expenditure is 15.5% of total central govt expenditure. " over the last 10 years, defence expenditure as a proportion of central government expenditure and GDP has decreased. In 2010-11, defence expenditure was 2.5% of GDP and 16.3% of central government expenditure, which has decreased to 2.1% of GDP and 15.5% of government expenditure, respectively, in 2020-21. Expenditure on defence pensions have grown at an average annual rate of 14% in the last 10 years. This is higher than the average annual growth rate of the defence budget (9%). It noted that the defence pension liabilities will continue to increase exponentially every year due to increase in number of retirees, amount of dearness relief, gratuity, and other retirement benefits. The Committee observed that this increasing pension bill is a cause of concern. As of April 2016, there were around 25 lakh defence pensioners. [5] The Standing Committee on Defence (January 2019) noted that the percentage of funds for pensions is bound to rise since approximately 60,000 personnel retire every year. [6]

The Committee noted that this reduces the funds available for modernisation of the armed forces. "

We have to remember that DRDO is running at vastly under strength for nearly 10 years now. Not spending for research is all kinds of idiotic that only the truly stuck in cavalry charge days will accept.

There is no way govt can increase total defence spending % (see data above) given need to pump the economy after the dual shocks of covid and now the ukraine war and global slow-down. Even in capex, the govt is shifting to made in india equipment which includes license manufacturing and IDDM. We need to increase the tech capability of the armed forces. We cannot have a gargantuan pensions bill AND buy shiny shiny toys at the same time. Not when the global economy and hence ours too is fu(cked for the foreseeable future. And our equipment will & SHOULD come from domestic manufacturing!

[Prasad]

And our CAPEX needs are bloody massive. Take any equipment and we need to buy it. Army - guns, tube arty, rocket arty, wheeled apc,tracked ifv, atgm carriers, helicopters for aac, vshorads.

iaf - so many planes it is not even funny. just the 114 mrca has a $20bn budget.

navy - their needs are more expensive than anyone else. 6 nuke subs, follow on ssbns, diesel subs, minesweepers, next gen corvettes, naval fighters, NUH.

Where is the money going to come from for all this?

And R&D - oh boy our R&D budget is pitifully inadequate. Just GTRE wants >> $1bn. Now add up all supah dupah gizmos and fantastic weapons that you need 15 years down the line for which you need to start research today. And tell me where that will end up.

[chetak]

Agree with the requirement in current and historical setup. But going forward, we will see dilution in identities based on caste / region across India. We have to try alternatives. Anyway, I hope some preference is given to original recruitment pool, and the departure is gradual.

Like you said, nothing is holy, but have to balance the old and the new.

If you are talking in the context of the Forces, you are talking poppycock about identities based on caste/region. The Forces are truly secular and caste has never ever been a criterion for anything, except maybe a funereal performed by the Forces in the village of the departed where a local pandit known to the family may be used to perform the last rites.

A Jat is very different from a Thambi

what's a thambi and before you deign to explain, the word in itself is highly derogatory and intensely disliked, and yet you use it so casually.

It's no wonder that you will obviously see everything in a caste/regional framework using a woke set of colonially tinted glasses.

Any officer can be posted to the gurkhas, for example and by long standing regimental tradition, he/she learns the language of his soldiers and understands their unique customs and traditions as a way of bonding with them.

He needs to earn their trust and that helps him to lead better.

Nothing wrong with that system which has served us for so long.

Is it time to change, I don't think so. Let it run as it is for as long as it can.

In the fullness of time, change will obviously come as is only natural.

Don't disrupt the system at this stage, not when the cheen are sitting on the doorstep in ladakh and arunachal and in hambantotha and in gwadar and in nepal and in bangladesh and in afghanistan and in POK.

why this death wish and needless kolaveri di, especially when there is a flux in global geopolitics and we are coming under increasing attacks from virtually every quarter including the BIF activated internal threat vectors.

are the damages of the pandemic and ukraine not enough for us to stand strong and consolidate without throwing a huge spanner into the works by needlessly tinkering with a well oiled system that has been running for so many decades and have produced exemplary results while also keeping us safe.

All this, just to save a few bucks, ONLY in the military pension bill and not in other civilian pension bills which are way bigger in payout terms.

[chetak]

And our Capex needs are bloody massive. Take any equipment and we need to buy it. Army - guns, tube arty, rocket arty, wheeled apc,tracked ifv, atgm carriers, helicopters for aac, vshorads.
iaf - so many planes it is not even funny. just the 114 mrca has a $20bn budget.
navy - their needs are more expensive than anyone else. 6 nuke subs, follow on ssbns, diesel subs, minesweepers, next gen corvettes, naval fighters, NUH.
Where is the money going to come from for all this?

as per the govt, money will come from drastically reducing the military pension payouts.

appease and bow before the "farmers", appease and bow before the "stone pelters", and as usual, appease and bow before the babooze.

No case has been progressed against the politicos, save the most unfortunate but also the most deserving and guilty luloo

If you need to protect yourself from the big hyenas, or play with the big boys on their terms, you will need grown up toys and commensurate protection in terms of weaponry and professional soldiery.

The alternate is isolationism and high trade barriers but that will only make the cheeni covet India's assets all the more and they will make their move, sooner, rather than later......

[Deans]

The problem with comparing defense pensions to civilian, is that in the forces (to put it simplistically) a soldier serves for 20 years and gets
pension for 40. A Civilian govt employee serves for 40 years and gets a pension for 20. That's why defense pensions are proportionately higher.

There are civilian employees in every armed force. The US armed forces have almost a million, excluding the private sector.
My view is a lot of those Govt babu jobs can be outsourced to the private sector who can do it cheaper and more efficiently (however that may hold good for some uniformed jobs too - like Army tradesmen).

Inclusive of pensions, our defense spending is at 2.4% of GDP. Even f it goes to 3% (which I support) most of the increase will be pensions and salary, if we continue on the current trajectory. Including our CAPF, the internal security budget is around 4% of GDP. This scheme does not reduce pension, it prevents an unsustainable increase in future.

[IndraD]

do we have any record of what happens to army men who come out of SSC? Do they get employed?

[IndraD]

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/opini ... 88051.html some suggestion that this scheme is to reduce angst in rural young population on employment

[Rakesh]

After 4-year service, Agniveers to get preference in CAPF recruitment: Amit Shah
https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... h-7970413/
15 June 2022

Amit Shah said that the youth trained through the scheme will be able to contribute in the service and security of the nation in the future.

[Rakesh]

'Agnipath' will provide good opportunity to NCC cadets: NCC D-G Lt Gen Gurbirpal Singh
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 229060.cms
15 June 2022

Lt Gen Singh said 'B' and 'C' certificate holders of the NCC get a special weightage for recruitment in the armed forces. Under the Agnipath scheme, NCC cadets have a good opportunity to become 'Agniveer' for four years and they can follow other professions afterwards, he said.

[Kakkaji]

Will the regular recruitment of Jawans continue in addition to Agnipath? If not, and if all new recruits are to come through Agnipath only, then this will destroy the entire current structure of the army, and the new structure may not be good enough to meet India's security needs.

The regimental structure of the IA has given India a unique army whose soldiers perform their tasks admirably even when they are poorly equipped compared to other modern armies. Destroying that structure in one stroke, while the alternative has not been extensively tested in combat, is going to be a blunder IMHO.

I do not understand the repeated calls from many BRFites about downsizing the army. The Ukraine war has shown how important it is to have large numbers of well-trained, equipped, and motivated infantry on the modern battlefield. The Russians would love to have the Indian Army fighting for them now.

In India's own case, when the Chinese put pressure on the border a couple of years ago, what saved India was the ability to quickly deploy large numbers of troops on that border. 'Mountains eat troops' they say. You need large number of troops in the northern mountains, and also to fight insurgency in Kashmir, in addition to the troops to fight Pakistan on the Western border. In a way India is lucky that, due to both demographics and tradition, there is no shortage of willing recruits for the army. Why fritter away that advantage while trying to become a copy of US and other western armies whose circumstances are totally different.

As for the pension bill, when people serve 20 prime years of their lives, under constant deployment risking their lives to defend you, IMHO the nation should not grudge them their pensions. When the GOI can increase fertilizer subsidy overnight by tens of thousands of crores (in addition to humongous expenditure on other schemes), it should be able to come up with another hundred thousand crores to add to the defence budget so that both the pension and capital expenditures can be taken care of.

Someone has mentioned above that more money has to be spent on infrastructure than on defence. Please ask the Ukrainians what is happening to their infrastructure now, for lack of an adequate defence capability.

If the 'regular' recruitment in the infantry regiments of the IA continues in addition to Agnipath, then I have no problems with this scheme.

JMHO only.

[Rakesh]

Agnipath recruitment scheme to lower profile of soldiers to approximately 26 years, says Vice Chief of Army Staff, General BS Raju
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 226624.cms
15 June 2022

The opportunities for the youth in the Army have increased triple fold following the announcement of the ‘Agnipath’ scheme by the Central Government on June 14. Addressing the model, Vice Chief of Army Staff BS Raju on June 15 in Delhi, informed that the age reduction from 32 years to 26 years to join the Army will be a huge benefit for the Indian Army. “The average age of Army soldier is approximately 32 to 33 years. With Agnipath, in around 8 to 10 years, we'll be able to lower the profile of the soldiers to approximately 26 years. It'll make Army fitter. We'll be able to handle more challenging situations in difficult areas that troops operate in,” said the Vice Chief of Army Staff.

[srin]

The problem with comparing defense pensions to civilian, is that in the forces (to put it simplistically) a soldier serves for 20 years and gets
pension for 40. A Civilian govt employee serves for 40 years and gets a pension for 20. That's why defense pensions are proportionately higher.

There is one crucial difference. Armed forces have a defined benefit scheme of pension. This was present for civil services too - but that is only for old and retired employees. This cause the same big pension bill problem - the pension bill keeps going up with each pay commission and each DA hike, and it becomes a huge liability.
Due to this, the civil services were moved to NPS - any joinee after 2004 is mandatorily enrolled into NPS which is a defined contribution scheme. I don't know why the armed forces weren't moved to NPS (or NPS-like) pension, which would have reduced the future liability considerably.

[Rakesh]

If successful, this will be an electoral boon to the BJP in the 2024 general elections. That perhaps is the driving force behind this scheme.

How helpful it will be for the armed forces, remains to be seen.

'Agniveers' to get priority in recruitment to police, related services: UP CM
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 222609.cms
15 June 2022

"@UPGovt will give priority to Agniveers in the (recruitment of) state police and related services after they serve Maa Bharti (country)," Adityanath tweeted. He said, "The double-engine government of BJP is dedicated and committed for the upliftment of the youth and to secure their future. Jai Hind!"

[Rakesh]

MoE to launch bachelor degree programme for Agniveers, grant 50% credits for in-service training
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 230578.cms
15 June 2022

The Centre on Tuesday unveiled a "transformative" scheme called 'Agnipath' for the recruitment of soldiers in the Army, the Navy and the Air Force largely on a short-term contractual basis to cut the ballooning salary and pension bills and enable a youthful profile of the armed forces.

[Rakesh]

Agnipath Scheme to offer multiple entry-exit points with appropriate certification at every level
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 228153.cms
15 June 2022

The Agnipath scheme will provide a special 3 year skill-based bachelor degree programme for serving defence personnel, in order to improve the Agniveers' future career prospects and equip them for various job roles in the civilian sector.

[Rakesh]

Enigma Of Agnipath In Defence Forces
https://bharatshakti.in/enigma-of-agnip ... ce-forces/
15 June 2022

by Major General Ashok Kumar (Retd)

[ramana]

Please post more opeds and articles on both cons and pros.
Maj Gen Bakshi
Writes
https://twitter.com/generalbakshi/statu ... 2fakK1l1uA

[Rakesh]

Please post more opeds and articles on both cons and pros.
Maj Gen Bakshi
Writes
https://twitter.com/generalbakshi/statu ... 2fakK1l1uA

Ramana-ji, this was already posted.

And posters (incl me) are posting both pros and cons of this scheme.

[nash]

https://twitter.com/alpha_defense/statu ... 1531269122

Ministry of Education is to launch a special, three year skill based bachelor degree programme for serving defence personnel that will recognize the skill training received by them during their tenure in the defence establishments : Education Ministry.

I believe this was one of major concern and good to see government has plan for it.

[Rakesh]

A Jat is very different from a Thambi

what's a thambi and before you deign to explain, the word in itself is highly derogatory and intensely disliked, and yet you use it so casually.

It's no wonder that you will obviously see everything in a caste/regional framework using a woke set of colonially tinted glasses.

Chetak-ji, it is my understanding that in the Madras Regiment, the jawans are all called Thambis. Why would this be derogatory?

I personally have my roots from Kerala. Growing up in Bombay, I use to bristle when my Northern Brethren would lump all Southerners as Madrasis and use some garbled language (a rabid, nonsensical mixture of Tamil + Malayalam) to speak down to us. I am aware of Madrasis being derogatory, but this is the first I am hearing of Thambi being derogatory. Do you have more info/context to this?

The might of the Thambis
https://www.thehindu.com/opinion/open-p ... 626363.ece
08 Sept 2015

Nevertheless, the battalion, with an abundance of young Thambis — as southern soldiers are affectionately referred to within the Army — and an equally young leadership, made short work of it with a lightning charge that bordered on the reckless

[Cyrano]

Thambi means younger brother, = chota bhai. Not derogative unless used in a domineering way.

Our Glawan hero Col Satish Babu was a Telugu, he was with 16 Bihar, then RR and later was CO of 16 Bihar. His men were fiercely loyal to him. So where is this language, region & caste angle coming in?

[Rakesh]

India needs tech-savvy young armed forces: Lt Gen Arun
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 229725.cms
15 June 2022

​​Briefing reporters about Agnipath, a transformative scheme for recruiting youngsters into the defence forces unveiled by the central government, he said there is a desire among the youth, especially those in the border areas, to serve the country for a short duration, rather than settle for a service spanning about two decades. Indian youth will be provided an opportunity to serve in the armed forces as Agniveer.

[ramana]

Brigadier Karan Rathore supports the program.

https://twitter.com/rathorekaran17/stat ... jgqxg&s=19

[Kakkaji]

Thambi means younger brother, = chota bhai. Not derogative unless used in a domineering way.

Our Glawan hero Col Satish Babu was a Telugu, he was with 16 Bihar, then RR and later was CO of 16 Bihar. His men were fiercely loyal to him. So where is this language, region & caste angle coming in?

The officers in IA infantry regiments come from all over India, but the Jawans in a unit are usually from the same region/ caste.

[chetak]

Thambi means younger brother, = chota bhai. Not derogative unless used in a domineering way.

Our Glawan hero Col Satish Babu was a Telugu, he was with 16 Bihar, then RR and later was CO of 16 Bihar. His men were fiercely loyal to him. So where is this language, region & caste angle coming in?

this is a catchall term used for people south of the vindhiyas and the their language is derisively and collectively called jalebi language because of the script which as per many, looks like jalebis.

anyone can say what they want but in many circumstances thambi is used derogatively. A smile may or may not accompany the use of the term but still, it is out there. It is not used exclusively in the Forces but is also used a lot among educated culturally sensitive civilians who ought to know better

I know what it means when thambi is used in the correct context. But that happens rarely. I have heard this term used derisively in company offices, at meetings, shop floors, at social gatherings and other places where those people affected do not make an issue of it, mostly in the interests of maintaining harmony. They don't have to like it. No one would use "golti" as casually as they would thambi. Maybe they are too dumb to know, stupidly unthinking or they just don't care.

BTW, it would have been disappointing if the late Col Satish Babu's men were not loyal to him. That is the not the exception generating comment, it is the norm that is expected. Trust, loyalty and respect are all a two way street.

Respect is earned, honesty is valued, trust is gained and loyalty is returned. That's how it works in the Forces.

[nash]

https://twitter.com/PIB_India/status/15 ... 3435604993

Post-Service engagement of #Agniveers

@DoT_India
held a meeting with all TSPs and discuss ways and means on how the telecom sector in general & TSPs, in particular, can make use of talent, discipline & acquired skills of trained Agniveers

https://pib.gov.in/PressReleasePage.aspx?PRID=1834265

Home ministry also have similar plan to induct Agniveer in CAPF and may be some state also get them in police service.
As far as education and job continuation is concern I think it may not be a big problem, rest how it affect operation capability that time will tell.

[Yagnasri]

I am a bit out of topic, but I want to put one thing to the readers. We have no regiment catchment area in AP, TG, KA, Odissa or KL, etc. states AFAIK. No recruitment rallies were held or held rarely in these states. AP has more of a population than Punjab, and we recruit hardly anyone in AP compared to Punjab. Why? Are Telugu people not marshall enough for India Armed forces like Punjabis? The people supporting all kinds of traditions also support this racist ideology of Britshit time even today. Sorry to say I have no respect for such people who talk of the same caste will promote unit cohesion etc, and ignore that there is little recruitment from many states when compared to others. No regiment's name is connected to many places, states in the country or communities. Why?

While I am not comfortable with the Agniveer thing, also, I'm not too fond of this insulting manner in which the IA establishment treats people from many states and people in the present system. So if this new thing with its all-India recruitment thing changes the current setup, it is ok. But I fear it will not. We did not come out of our mindset of the British Indian Army in some aspects, and this is one of those aspects.

[chetak]

I am a bit out of topic, but I want to put one thing to the readers. We have no regiment catchment area in AP, TG, KA, Odissa or KL, etc. states AFAIK. No recruitment rallies were held or held rarely in these states. AP has more of a population than Punjab, and we recruit hardly anyone in AP compared to Punjab. Why? Are Telugu people not marshall enough for India Armed forces like Punjabis? The people supporting all kinds of traditions also support this racist ideology of Britshit time even today. Sorry to say I have no respect for such people who talk of the same caste will promote unit cohesion etc, and ignore that there is little recruitment from many states when compared to others. No regiment's name is connected to many places, states in the country or communities. Why?

While I am not comfortable with the Agniveer thing, also, I'm not too fond of this insulting manner in which the IA establishment treats people from many states and people in the present system. So if this new thing with its all-India recruitment thing changes the current setup, it is ok. But I fear it will not. We did not come out of our mindset of the British Indian Army in some aspects, and this is one of those aspects.

Yagnasri ji

There is a fairly good representation of Telugu people in all the forces.

while what you say about recruitment rallies etc is true they somehow seem to find their way to the recruitment centers, qualify and join up.

In fact, they dominate many DRDO labs, as indeed the Tambrams used to dominate ISRO at one time.