Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

ParGha · Post by **ParGha** » 15 Jun 2022 22:51

ks_sachin wrote:That is a strong argument in combat arms where unit cohesion is based to a large extent on linguistic and cultural similarities between the troops.

Sociological research shows that this is a volatile form of unit cohesion -- it can work very well for the larger purposes, and it can also work very well against the larger purposes. Weak leadership uses it to cover gaps in education, training, equipment and troop-welfare.

The preferred form of unit cohesion comes from (1) education and vesting in the larger purpose, (2) confidence in one's unit's training and equipment, and (3) trust in leadership's competence in balancing mission-needs and troop-welfare.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 16 Jun 2022 00:05

Yagnasri-ji, please don't get misled by the name Madras in the regiment's name. This regiment has one of the highest count of battalions (20+) amongst all infantry regiments because there are units dedicated to all southern states. Rakesh saar posted an article in the previous page - it talked about two battalions (9th and 16th) that are primarily staffed by KL troops. Then we had Ln Nk Hanumanthappa Koppad of 19 Madras, who miraculously survived more than a week under snow after an avalanche in Siachen. 19 Madras has mostly KA troops, since it is derived from the old Mysore state forces.

You accused the army of following British traditions. If they did, there won't be a 9th or 16th (Travancore and Cochin) nor an 18th or 19th (Mysore). These units fought against the old British Indian Army, and are today part of our Army.

So, no, the IA has not ignored these states at all. Can they recruit more? Sure. In fact they raised two new battalions just a decade ago (20th and 21st, iirc).

And this is just infantry. There are other units artillery and armour that are similarly staffed. One such unit (light artillery iirc) ran to fight the Chinese at galwan upon hearing the attack on Col Santosh Babu. And Engineers (formerly known as Sappers) is another story in itself.

As for recruitment practices, there are entire villages in the Chittoor area (this belt actually stretches up to Thiruvannamalai in TN) that contribute heavily to the regiment. To the extent that every house has a son in service. As a matter of tradition.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jun 2022 00:12

FWIW I don't want any more regional Regiments
Post-Independence IA has kept the old regiments and added battalions to them as needed.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 16 Jun 2022 00:17

I will speak from a non military perspective, as folks far better than me have spoken.

Pros

1. Job mindset: Just doing jobs (govt/pvt) wont take to 10 or 15 Trillion USD economy. For that we need people who are self assured and have seen the real world. Most college grads haven't seen their labs properly and seen the real world. LeLi colleges are largely churning out wokes or armchair warriors like import 500 F-22s. Few want to get their hands dirty. Most of them who do either lack education or confidence. Army setup will provide that. Is that the best place to do so definitely no, but that is the only place where moral, and practical learnings can be imparted in our society. That is the sad truth.

2. Self Defence: Due to weapons control a large part of Hindu society does not know today what it means to wage a war. Sam bahadur's comment that most cant differentiate between a guerilla and gorilla, although a lot of them are like one is more true today. Rioting is increasing.

3. Our society has an inherent problem of lawlessness and disobedience, it's cool to break laws. One reason why some societies are more likely to be law abiding is due the compulsory military service. I am not saying it is the main driver, but this is one of the contributor. Again is this the best way. No, but "we are like that only". Riots are going to increase in that kinda enviornment how do we defend ourselves. this training provides people who will be at least aware of ways of army's working. they could be called in such scenarios. What we missing out is that these trained folks could be used to defend

4. cost: we are the country where pension bills is higher than salary capital outlay, more so after OROP. in '20-21, 28% of Mod's budget was for pension and 24% was capital outlay. and remember outlays are not realized fully always.
https://www.idsa.in/policybrief/defence ... -uk-230420

5. military leadership is having a hard time adjusting to a reality of non tenure based promotions as seen with CDS and out of turn promotions.

Cons

1. term is short, would have wanted it for longer duration, may be 7 years..
2. Numbers are on the higher side. Perhaps a pilot should have been done or perhaps have the numbers on the lower side..
3. Point 3 cuts both ways, right now the rioters are single digit % in army but if they increase...there is a high chance of backstabbing like in past as was the case in 1947..we anyways have the problem of infiltration in police and IAS/IPS lobbies. It's a risk.
4. training infra is anyways stretched and difficult to envisage how it would adopt to new folks with a cultural change

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 16 Jun 2022 00:18

Click on the link below to read the rest....

https://twitter.com/KesariDhwaj/status/ ... v8zk4Q9bwA ---> I'll hold my tongue on this TOD for now but I'll say this:
- Move towards creation of All India, All Class Infantry Regiments is a welcome development.
- While the Regiment system will remain, the composition of troops will be change to reflect all India character of the Army.
- This change is important because (a) you want to draw amongst the best talent available (b) It helps to mitigate against fissiparous tendencies.
- You don't want repeat of 1984 when some Battalions of Sikh Regiment and recruits at its training center mutinied and had to be contained by other army units through violence.
- And it is not as if this is being done for the first time.
- From what I remember, the army itself has proposed in early 90s an action plan to move from Single Class Regiments to All India, All Class Regiments.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 16 Jun 2022 02:29

ParGha wrote:
ks_sachin wrote:That is a strong argument in combat arms where unit cohesion is based to a large extent on linguistic and cultural similarities between the troops.
Sociological research shows that this is a volatile form of unit cohesion -- it can work very well for the larger purposes, and it can also work very well against the larger purposes. Weak leadership uses it to cover gaps in education, training, equipment and troop-welfare.

The preferred form of unit cohesion comes from (1) education and vesting in the larger purpose, (2) confidence in one's unit's training and equipment, and (3) trust in leadership's competence in balancing mission-needs and troop-welfare.

ParGha I don’t disagree with what you r saying. Afterall Guards Paras Etc are all India all class. Even the Mahars recruit from a very large pool. I used the term strong because it has worked.
In our case it is not about weak leadership because some inf regiments have shown that it is not an issue and so it is a system that has worked and there are more important things to solve for.
But what about Sikh/Sikhli/Punjab? Is there any truth to Sikh being only Jat Sikh while Sikhli being Mazhabi etc.

But the argument I put forth is used by officers opposing this concept.
The current system by has worked well but I suppose change is inevitable.
Personally as a South Indian and with two generations in the Dogras I would hate to see it become all India all class. I grew up in the bosom of Dogri culture and traditions.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 16 Jun 2022 02:39

Agniveers will be 50% of Army by 2032: Vice-chief Lt-General BS Raju
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 239322.cms
16 June 2022

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 16 Jun 2022 02:54

ks_sachin wrote:But the argument I put forth is used by officers opposing this concept.
The current system by has worked well but I suppose change is inevitable.
Personally as a South Indian and with two generations in the Dogras I would hate to see it become all India all class. I grew up in the bosom of Dogri culture and traditions.

Since this is a subject that is down your alley, a noob pooch.

Sailors in the navy and airmen in the air force come from all over the country. They live, work, eat and fight together as one cohesive unit. I even remember seeing a youtube show on life aboard an Indian Navy submarine and the sailors were from every corner of the country.

Yet this dichotomy (to an outsider like me, that is what it looks like) exists within infantry regiments. Does this happen in the Armoured Corps? Artillery Corps? I don't know, so I am honestly asking. I don't want to come out and say that this system is a vestige of colonial hangover, but that is what it looks like to the uninformed. So what is the issue with officers opposing the concept? What is it about infantry combat that the absence of a class regiment will make the regiment less effective in combat?

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 16 Jun 2022 05:33

Yagnasri wrote:I am a bit out of topic, but I want to put one thing to the readers. We have no regiment catchment area in AP, TG, KA, Odissa or KL, etc. states AFAIK. No recruitment rallies were held or held rarely in these states. AP has more of a population than Punjab, and we recruit hardly anyone in AP compared to Punjab. Why? Are Telugu people not marshall enough for India Armed forces like Punjabis? The people supporting all kinds of traditions also support this racist ideology of Britshit time even today. Sorry to say I have no respect for such people who talk of the same caste will promote unit cohesion etc, and ignore that there is little recruitment from many states when compared to others. No regiment's name is connected to many places, states in the country or communities. Why?

While I am not comfortable with the Agniveer thing, also, I'm not too fond of this insulting manner in which the IA establishment treats people from many states and people in the present system. So if this new thing with its all-India recruitment thing changes the current setup, it is ok. But I fear it will not. We did not come out of our mindset of the British Indian Army in some aspects, and this is one of those aspects.

NOTE - The recruitment policy for the rank and file of the Armed Forces is based on the Recruitable Male Population (RMP) Index System. States with larger populations get greater vacancies.

Yagnasri post independence we have only seen the raising of 6 regiments. Brigade of the Guards, Ladakh Scouts, Sikkim Scouts, Arunachal Scouts and JakLI, Nagas. All the other regiments trace their lineage back to the British times. It is what it is. IA is not treating anyone with contempt - even the Scout regiments have been raised for a specific role I believe. JakLi was raised from the J&K Militias that resisted the Pakistani invaders in 1947. I know about the reason for raising of the Nagas but more knowledgeable people can educate me. The army has resisted any new raising on regional lines as far as I can tell and this martial-race theory has been debunked and no one sane believes in it. Any formation is only as effective as its leadership and this is true of the IA as well.

If you think that we should completely disband the regimental system and call each of the historical regiments by some arbitrary name or number then be my guest.

I don't know about recruitment in AP but there is good representation from all the south Indian states in the Marathas, Madras, Mahars, Guards perhaps. Even Karnataka has no regiment but Kannadigas join the MEG or the Marathas and in good numbers. But that is just infantry and in the Army Corps / Arty, it could be a lot more as apart from 16th Cavalry I don't know if there is regional specificity in Armd corps. 16th Cav was/is All South Indian.

S_Madhukar · Post by **S_Madhukar** » 16 Jun 2022 05:45

Completely OT please move out to appropriate thread but should not a scheme like this be more useful for our police ? They don’t get salary increases but if a fraction of them get military training may be they can pass it on? In the US often police can be ex-military. Are the Agniveers allowed to be in IPS or similar structures rather than mere foot soldiers! At least the 0.5 can be handled better and intelligence may improve

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 16 Jun 2022 06:26

Rakeshji,

16th Cav was/is all south Indian I believe.
1st Horse, 3rd Horse etc etc have Jats, Sikhs, Rajputs. One of the other horses has Sikhs and Dogris. There is presumably some historical reason for it.
arshyam has alluded to Light Arty Regt being South Indian.

Arty and other combat arms I don't know but I believe them to be all India all class.

What you describe in the AF and Navy is also the same in the Brigade of the Guards I think. But I have been lead to believe that even within a regiment there could be a preponderance of a certain background in different batallions. For example Bihar cetain batallions may have a preponderance for people from Jarkhand. the Sikh Regiment also recruit predominantly from the Jat Sikh comunity I believe. I am not saying this is right or wrong mind you.

My personal views are purely emotional so you can disregard them but I am an Indian, Dogri and a Kannadiga. As long as the regimental ethos is not diluted I don't see a problem with changing the composition of infantry regiments. And a regiment is more than just geography as attested to by the Guards, Mech Inf, Mahars, and Madras.

The view from some officers and mind you officers are all India and all class - and I don't speak for them - is why to change something when it works. While good leadership is important there is no denying that there are nuances in managing soldiers from different parts of India. Managing a Maratha soldier and getting the best out of him requires a different approach than managing a Jat and getting his respect. That is why officers spend so much time getting to know their soldiers and their communities. So perhaps this is what they are worried about.

I know of the fiasco that was the Vaidya battalions but here is what I have from HQ.

Following Operation Bluestar, General Arun Vaidya wanted to have more mixed battalions, so he passed an order that single-class battalions should begin recruiting other classes as well as their parent class. These mixed battalions came to be known as “Vaidya’s Battalions”. 13 Sikh was a Vaidya battalion and its class composition consisted of a company each of Sikhs, Dogras, Garhwalis and South Indians. When General K. Sundarji took over as army chief, one of the first orders he issued was to put a stop to this. So perhaps the army knows what works.

Here is the problem for me. When people say all india all class what do they mean?

An inf bn has 6 companies.

Say the 4 Rifle Companies are Sikh, Dogri, South India, and Naga - is this what people want?

of

An inf bn has 6 companies.

Say the 4 Rifle Companies are an amalgamation of Sikh, Dogri, South India, and Naga and others - is this what people want?

Either of these poses challenges in leadership.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jun 2022 06:32

Its all being discussed and parts of scheme are being unveiled.

Its bottoms up transformation.
CDS and theater commands are top down transformation.
Look at effect of both on Indian military first.
And then at other areas.
By bringing police etc it does not do justice to this reform.

First impact is it lower averge age of soldier from 30+ to 26. That's good for combat capability.

Second it provides a track for NCO and JCO from the 25% retained.
Rest you all can read.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jun 2022 07:40

Guddu wrote:Re: Agnipath...I see POK/China prep everywhere. We are going to need more soldiers, when the SHTF. This is all prep. Look for action over the next year or two, when China makes it move on Taiwan.

[Mod Note: Please repost this in this thread ---> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7890]

an

ks_sachin wrote:
Guddu wrote:Re: Agnipath...I see POK/China prep everywhere. We are going to need more soldiers, when the SHTF. This is all prep. Look for action over the next year or two, when China makes it move on Taiwan.
so 46000 soldiers will be ready in next couple of years?

[Mod Note: Please repost this in this thread ---> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7890]

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jun 2022 07:41

Sachin, the Agnipath program is just announced.
So please wait for more details.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 16 Jun 2022 08:29

ramana wrote:Sachin, the Agnipath program is just announced.
So please wait for more details.

Sir point taken but for some reason people think that I have a stance on it.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jun 2022 10:17

Two reports from Prasar Bharati

In-service training received by Agniveers to be considered as credits for graduation: Education Ministry

Enhancing the future career prospects of ‘Agniveers’, the Ministry of Education has mentioned that it will recognise in-serivce training received under Agnipath recruitment scheme, as credits for a graduation programme.

The specially-designed degree programme designed by Indira Gandhi National Open University (IGNOU) will consider 50 percent of the credits required for a graduate degree from the skill training (both technical & non-technical) received by the Agniveer, and the rest from a basket of courses.

“50% of the credits required for a graduate degree will come from the skill training – both technical and non-technical – received by the Agniveer, and the remaining 50 % will come from a basket of courses that cover a wide variety of subjects like languages, Economics, History, Political Science, Public Administration, Sociology, Mathematics, Education, Commerce, Tourism, Vocational Studies, Agriculture and Jyotish, as also Ability Enhancement Courses on Environmental Studies and Communication Skills in English,” a statement from Education Ministry stated.

The way forward for Agniveers

The Ministry of Education will launch the special three year skill based bachelor degree programme for serving defence personnel (Agniveers) that will enhance the future career prospects of the soldiers and equip them for various job roles in the civilian sector.

Notably, the programme is aligned with University Grants Commission (UGC) norms and with the National Credit Framework / National Skill Qualification Framework (NSQF) as mandated under the National Education Policy (NEP) 2020.

Further, the programme also has provision for multiple exit points as Undergraduate Certificate will be provided on successful completion of the first year courses, Undergraduate Diploma after completion of the first and second year courses, and Degree on completion of all the courses in a three year time frame.

It is noteworthy that the framework of the programme has been duly recognized by All India Council for Technical Education (AICTE) and National Council for Vocational Education and Training (NCVET) and UGC.

The Degree will be awarded by IGNOU as per UGC nomenclature (BA; B. Com.; BA (vocational); BA (Tourism Management), and will be recognized both in India and abroad for employment and education. Importantly, Indian Army, Indian Navy and Indian Air Force will sign Memoranda of Understanding (MoU) with IGNOU for implementation of the scheme.

The Union Cabinet on 14th June, 2022 approved an attractive recruitment scheme for Indian youth to serve in the Armed Forces called ‘Agnipath’ and the youth selected under this scheme will be known as Agniveers.

Under Agnipath, aspirants between the ages of 17.5 years and 21 years will be eligible to apply; once selected, the aspirants will go through training for six months and then they will be deployed for three and a half years.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jun 2022 10:24

‘Agniveers’ to get preference in CAPF jobs, post 4 years of service: Union Minister Amit Shah

Paving way for the future of ‘Agniveers’ after their four-year service in the armed forces, Union Home Minister Amit Shah has announced that the Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA) will give priority to them in getting recruitment to Central Armed Police Forces (CAPFs) and Assam Rifles.

https://twitter.com/HMOIndia/status/1536899944841363456?

“The Agnipath scheme is a visionary step by PM Narendra Modi for the bright future of the youth of the country. In this context, the Home Ministry has decided that such Agniveers who have completed four years of service under the scheme, will get preference in recruitment in the CAPFs and the Assam Rifles,” the Office of the Home Minister of India mentioned in a tweet.

Detailed planning work has been started in the Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA) following the decision. “The youth trained by ‘Agnipath Yojana’ will be able to contribute in the service and security of the country even further. Detailed planning work has started on this decision,” the Office of the Home Minister further added.

The Central Armed Police Forces (CAPFs) include forces such as Assam Rifles (AR), Border Security Force (BSF), Central Industrial Security Force (CISF), Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF), Indo Tibetan Border Police (ITBP), National Security Guard (NSG) and Sashastra Seema Bal (SSB).

Unveiling the ‘Agnipath’ scheme, Defence Minister Rajnath Singh on Tuesday said that upon the completion of four years of Agniveers, many central ministries and states governments including Public Sector Undertakings (PSUs) & corporations will give priority to them in job opportunities.”

In the coming days, you will get the announcement by various state governments and ministries regarding the priority in job opportunities to Agniveers, Rajnath Singh said.

It is a transformative initiative that would provide a youthful profile to the armed forces. Under the Agnipath scheme, Indian youngsters will be provided an opportunity to serve in the armed forces as Agniveer,” the Union Minister added.

Agniveer Skill Certificate

It is important to note that, at the end of the 4 year tenure, a detailed ‘Skill-Set Certificate’ will be provided to the Agniveers which will showcase the comprehensive skills and level of competency acquired by them during their engagement period.

Addressing the press conference, Indian Air Force (IAF) chief Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari mentioned that under the National Education Policy (NEP), credit points will be given to Agniveers for all the formal training given to them during the course of 4 years.

With these credits points, an Agniveer can pursue higher studies along with concurrently achieving all the others aims, the Air Chief asserted.

Importantly, during the period of 4 years, 30 percent of their salary will be set aside under a ‘Seva Nidhi’ programme, and the government will contribute an equal amount every month along with providing accrue interest to Agniveers.

At the end of the four-year period, Agniveer will be accorded Rs 11.71 lakh as a lump sum amount, which will be tax-free. Additionally, they will also get a Rs 48 lakh life insurance cover for the four years.]/b]

Under the Agnipath scheme, aspirants between the age group of 17.5 years and 21 years will be eligible to apply and the recruitment standards will remain the same; with recruitment rallies to be organised twice a year. It is pertinent to note that 46,000 Agniveers are likely to be recruited under the first phase of recruitment.

Once selected, the aspirants will go through training for six months and then they will be deployed for three and a half years. During this period, they will be provided an attractive monthly package of Rs 30,000 per month with upgradation upto Rs 40,000 per month in 4th year.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 16 Jun 2022 12:40

From a retired Major General on Twitter. Posting for discussion.

https://twitter.com/yashmor5/status/153 ... N5V7nJZb4Q

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 16 Jun 2022 15:18

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 246847.cms

mobocracy ! UP Bihar unrest over Agnipath scheme. Basically hit the road for any thing.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 16 Jun 2022 15:22

IndraD wrote:https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 246847.cms

mobocracy ! UP Bihar unrest over Agnipath scheme. Basically hit the road for any thing.

vengeful nitishwa in action.

once hopeful presidential ambitions have turned into a bitter mirage.

with neither naam nor nishan, he now knows that he is headed for the dustbin of history.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 16 Jun 2022 15:25

Consequences of ED visit to Mafia family.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 16 Jun 2022 15:29

IndraD wrote:https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 246847.cms

mobocracy ! UP Bihar unrest over Agnipath scheme. Basically hit the road for any thing.

This is a direct result of deliberate de industrialisation and ensuring that no new industries take root in the state.

The people keep voting for such leadership.

jaysimha · Post by **jaysimha** » 16 Jun 2022 15:55

I think this is what gen saab meant when he said way back in Apr 13, 2022 before retiring

Investment in armed forces shouldn't be seen as burden on economy: Army chief Gen Naravane

Some one said "Managing only for profits( or money) is like playing tennis with your eyes on the score board"

sanjayc · Post by **sanjayc** » 16 Jun 2022 17:30

Pratyush wrote:
IndraD wrote:https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 246847.cms

mobocracy ! UP Bihar unrest over Agnipath scheme. Basically hit the road for any thing.
This is a direct result of deliberate de industrialisation and ensuring that no new industries take root in the state.

The people keep voting for such leadership.

Agree. Due to deindustrialization and absence of private companies that can offer a job, the only alternative for advancement in life is a govt. job. Hence, youth agitating for railway jobs, army jobs, teacher jobs ... this is typical of Bihar. And the same youth will keep voting for Lalu and Nitish

sanjayc · Post by **sanjayc** » 16 Jun 2022 18:47

Pratyush wrote:
IndraD wrote:https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 246847.cms

mobocracy ! UP Bihar unrest over Agnipath scheme. Basically hit the road for any thing.
This is a direct result of deliberate de industrialisation and ensuring that no new industries take root in the state.

The people keep voting for such leadership.

Agree. Due to deindustrialization and absence of private companies that can offer a job, the only alternative for advancement in life is a govt. job. Hence, youth agitating for railway jobs, army jobs, teacher jobs ... this is typical of Bihar. And the same youth will keep voting for Lalu and Nitish

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 16 Jun 2022 18:56

A noob pooch
1.Could there have been a place for Compulsory Military Duty say for all able bodied males and females.
Is that feasible/possible in a country as large as India
per wiki average age 28.7 in 2022 and more than 50% below the age of 25
2.Could this Agniveer scheme been better nuanced from the start. There lots added later by Ministry of Education/ Home Ministry etc which sounds as a after thought and the whole thing was not thought through

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 16 Jun 2022 19:53

People burning trains to protest Agnipath, blockading Delhi to oppose farm laws, running online-phishing scams from the many Jamtaras are the same: tens of crores of jobless rural youth. Their frustration can’t be pushed any longer under doctored or hidden jobs data
https://twitter.com/ShekharGupta/status ... 0ofFfZZ4zQ

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 16 Jun 2022 19:54

Centre Under Pressure To Rethink Agnipath Jobs Scheme https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/agnipat ... ad-3073230

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 16 Jun 2022 20:03

IndraD wrote:Centre Under Pressure To Rethink Agnipath Jobs Scheme https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/agnipat ... ad-3073230

from the net

The BIF is in full cry

the rioters are literally using the reversal of the Farm Bills to justify their rioting & destruction of public property!

They have tasted blood/CAA in cold storage/National register gone/Farm laws with drawn--so now with agniveer they are following the tried and tested methods

vmalik · Post by **vmalik** » 16 Jun 2022 21:04

Even the aam admi views Armed forces as a jobs program. Thank a general. All the reversal will do is a budget and hiring freeze. Army will probably get another shellacking from the cheenis and Namo will take the blame. Unenviable position, Namo finds himself in again.
BJP is going to have to rethink on the reform front - postpone any indefinitely. So instead of a 10 trillion economy taking on the internal zombie horde, we many only have a 5 trillion. May turn out to be an inadvertent 56d chess move.

ParGha · Post by **ParGha** » 16 Jun 2022 21:06

chetak wrote:The BIF is in full cry
the rioters are literally using the reversal of the Farm Bills to justify their rioting & destruction of public property! They have tasted blood/CAA in cold storage/National register gone/Farm laws with drawn--so now with agniveer they are following the tried and tested methods

If this is the attitude and outlook of certain youth, then they are very well suited for, mmm, rapid de-mining, hull-cleaning and other such missions. Maybe the government should roll back Agniveer, and introduce Penal Battalions and NKVD-style "Encouragement Battalions"?

For people who actually want to serve the country, who see military service as a "duty" (vice "job"), a better solution maybe a re-vamped Territorial Defense Forces structure that also balances Army operational commitments vs modernization needs.

Reduce 1x rifle company from each Regular infantry battalion, and replace it with 1x linked Territorial Army company (under same regimental identity, but much lower OPEX and PL).
If wealthy cities like Mumbai, Bangalore, Hyderabad and others are willing to sponsor Cavalry TA squadrons (12x MBTs, ~$60MM CAPEX and ~$12MM OPEX), they can get back the Colors of Gwalior Lancers, Mysore Lancers, Hyderabad Lancers, et al. to be manned by their well-off citizen-soldiers, etc.
Organize and encourage civilian flying and UAV clubs under Air Auxiliary and Artillery/Army-Aviation colors.

It was very encouraging to see the 3 new Territorial Army Engineer Battalions (especially the one in J&K), and one hopes that they continue to raise more such Engineer (TA) Battalions around critical infrastructure all across the country (especially in the heavily industrialized, thinly militarized, South and South-West India).

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 16 Jun 2022 21:11

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 257906.cms
Please look at the Cons list as per TOIlet paper:
What caught my eye is the last one: Militarization of the society!!

Is this the major reason:
meaning in future: the BIF's/Jihadi/Nxals wont have it easy for a repeat of recent shenanigans or even utterances like give me 15 mts and I will show what I can do(reminiscent of the direct action days time)
If you one can recollect Gopal (cant get his surname but the one who organised the hindus for fight back), the Shantidooths and their Fourfathers are worried there could be in excess of 30,000 Gopals!!

vmalik · Post by **vmalik** » 16 Jun 2022 21:17

Rsatchi wrote:https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 257906.cms
Please look at the Cons list as per TOIlet paper:
What caught my eye is the last one: Militarization of the society!!
Is this the major reason:
meaning in future: the BIF's/Jihadi/Nxals wont have it easy for a repeat of recent shenanigans or even utterances like give me 15 mts and I will show what I can do(reminiscent of the direct action days time)
If you one can recollect Gopal (cant get his surname but the one who organised the hindus for fight back), the Shantidooths and their Fourfathers are worried there could be in excess of 30,000 Gopals!!

Even some of the twitter closet khalistanis were worried about that. A few lakh trained armed gopals ruins a lot of plans of BIF.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 16 Jun 2022 21:39

Rsatchi wrote:If you one can recollect Gopal (cant get his surname but the one who organised the hindus for fight back), the Shantidooths and their Fourfathers are worried there could be in excess of 30,000 Gopals!!

Gopal patha
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopal_Cha ... khopadhyay

Srutayus · Post by **Srutayus** » 16 Jun 2022 23:24

• We have about 500 million people aged 25 or below and the average age in our army is close to 35.
• Most of our defense budget goes to payroll, of which the larger portion is for pensions.
• We are a modern nation with caste-based regiments.
• And we have 2 heavily armed neighbors, united in enmity to us.

The Agnipath recruitment scheme is pretty similar to that used by many professional militaries including our erstwhile British masters whose colonial legacies we have been carrying on. Ironically, the Brits experimented far more with the structure of the Indian army than we did with what they left us.
This scheme will be seen as a no-brainer.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 16 Jun 2022 23:33

https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/stat ... YHJ7-pwUfg

reasons to support Agniveer, wish govt had this clarity in expression!

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 16 Jun 2022 23:44

Government grants one-time waiver in the upper age limit for Agnipath scheme by extending it to 23 years from 21 years. The decision has been taken as no recruitment had taken place in the last two years: Defence Ministry https://twitter.com/ANI/status/15374933 ... YHJ7-pwUfg

Mukesh.Kumar · Post by **Mukesh.Kumar** » 16 Jun 2022 23:56

Rsatchi wrote:https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 257906.cms
Please look at the Cons list as per TOIlet.......

If you one can recollect Gopal (cant get his surname but the one who organised the hindus for fight back), the Shantidooths and their Fourfathers are worried there could be in excess of 30,000 Gopals!!

He was Gopal Mukherjeealso known as Gopal Patha ( Goat).

sanjayc · Post by **sanjayc** » 17 Jun 2022 00:45

Rsatchi wrote:https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 257906.cms
Please look at the Cons list as per TOIlet paper:
What caught my eye is the last one: Militarization of the society!!
Is this the major reason:
meaning in future: the BIF's/Jihadi/Nxals wont have it easy for a repeat of recent shenanigans or even utterances like give me 15 mts and I will show what I can do(reminiscent of the direct action days time)
If you one can recollect Gopal (cant get his surname but the one who organised the hindus for fight back), the Shantidooths and their Fourfathers are worried there could be in excess of 30,000 Gopals!!

That is the fear of BIF. Imagine if Kashmiri Pandits were enrolled in this scheme! The decomissioned soldiers, which live in states where armed insurgencies are running, should be given gun licenses too for self-defence, as they are already trained in weapon use. "A well-armed militia" will do wonders to Khalistani, Islamist and Naxal Yahoos running riot in different states in India. A handful of these decomissioned Agniveers can effectively organize defence of any residential locality under attack in a riot.

The fear of BIF is that the feminization of Hindu male, so effectively engineered by British through Gandhi, will come to an end with military training.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 17 Jun 2022 00:53

@barbarindian
·
1h
Dev F just killed the #Agniveer scheme. Good luck.

??? What did Dev F do? communication seems to be a problem for these guys