Please *DO NOT* quote entire posts with a one or two line reply.Pratyush wrote:I personally think that point no 2 above is more valid.
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Please *DO NOT* quote entire posts with a one or two line reply.Pratyush wrote:I personally think that point no 2 above is more valid.
4 years ago it was 12 squadronssivab wrote: https://twitter.com/ANI/status/15488730 ... L12f4qAAAA
Indian Air Force has already given commitment for the induction of six squadrons of Light Combat Aircraft Mark 2 fighter jets. We will decide on additional numbers once the production of these aircraft starts: IAF chief Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari
Rakesh, my answer to the question raised by Sachin was embedded in the quote under para heading response.Rakesh wrote:Please *DO NOT* quote entire posts with a one or two line reply.Pratyush wrote:I personally think that point no 2 above is more valid.
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I would imagine that the IAF does not view these purchases purely from a cost standpoint, but in the context of where the PLAAF and PAF will be in terms of capabilities in the future. The force mix that the IAF plans for today is to face off against the projected capabilities of Indian's adversaries in the mid 2030s and beyond. In that context if by 2035 it is the IAF projection that it will be facing off against an overwhelmingly 5th generation fleet of J-20s and FC-31s from the PLAAF with a strong possibility that China will supply the smaller/lower tier FC-31 to Pakistan, then from the IAF's viewpoint it makes sense to keep a balance in force strength between the LCA Mk 2 and the AMCA, with the AMCA having a much better capability to face off against PLAAF 5th generation fighters. Something similar in the USAF which is cutting back on F-35 Block 3 acquisitions because of the much more capable Block 4 upgrades that are imminent much to the displeasure of politicians there.AkshaySG wrote: Mk1A and Mk2 won't just be the cheapest to buy but also the cheapest to operate and upgrade and yet we're only planning a total of 12 squadrons of them... That's less than 1/3rd of the supposed 42 sanctioned strength.
How much of this speech has this Govt adopted?KSingh wrote:2018
Looking At 12 Squadrons Of LCA Tejas Mk.2, IAF Chief Confirms
https://www.livefistdefence.com/looking ... -confirms/
The above numbers will not add up to 42 squadrons. Below will likely be the squadron strength in the mid 2030s (post retirement of the Mirage 2000I, MiG-29UPG and Jaguar IS/IB/IM fleets);Prem Kumar wrote:I am yet to dig into the details, but someone tweeted that, if 6 squadrons of MK2 is added to 6 of MRFA, everything put together makes up 42 squadrons.
Perhaps someone can do the math and confirm if this is true.
https://twitter.com/rathorekaran17/stat ... 2ek8BStsZQ ----> Air Force takes a call on number of aircraft required, once the first production model comes out. Is that how @IAF_MCC plans its fleet profile? Obviously they do not consider themselves part of the project. It's time that govt clarified a few thingshttps://twitter.com/ANI/status/15485926 ... 2ek8BStsZQ ---> For AMCA, we have committed 7 squadrons. The numbers for LCA Mark-II, we will take a call on it when the first production model comes: IAF chief Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari.
Ouch...that must hurt the IAF . Original SM storm seems to have only thrown even more muck in the air with this knee-jerk reaction from the IAF leadership.Rakesh wrote:
https://twitter.com/sakthivel_cit93/sta ... 2ek8BStsZQ ---> If IAF has no idea about how the Tejas Mk2 will turn out, what is the purpose of Preliminary Design Review (PDR), the Critical Design Review (CDR) by IAF? Don't they have confidence in their own above two processes? Don't they have a technical team that can monitor Tejas Mk2 progress to jigs?
The PM's speech immediately triggered the import lobby....Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/ANI/status/15490068 ... 2ek8BStsZQ ---> If you don't give love & respect to your own child & expect the same from your neighbours, can it be done? If we don't value our products, how can we expect the world to invest in us? When we showed confidence in our indigenously developed BRAHMOS, the world came forward too: PM Narendra Modi.
https://twitter.com/ANI/status/15490040 ... 2ek8BStsZQ ---> We developed the habit of being dependent on foreign countries for even the simplest products. Like drug addicts, we were addicted to the products imported from abroad: PM Narendra Modi.
https://twitter.com/ANI/status/15490048 ... 2ek8BStsZQ ---> To change this mindset, we worked on mission mode after 2014, after learning from the approach of the past, to create a new ecosystem of Defence with the help of 'Sabka Prayas': PM Narendra Modi.
Rakesh wrote:The PM's speech immediately triggered the import lobby....
The PM's self-delusional mis-statements about defence manufacturing and R&D
https://www.ajaishukla.com/2022/07/the- ... ments.html
shook la is shaking .. all in red and BOLDskumar wrote:Rakesh wrote:The PM's speech immediately triggered the import lobby....
The PM's self-delusional mis-statements about defence manufacturing and R&D
https://www.ajaishukla.com/2022/07/the- ... ments.html
So starting from scratch yet again? That’s another 20-30 years flushed awayRakesh wrote:If Air HQ does not want the Tejas Mk2, then they will have to switch to a twin engine, non-VLO, platform for the 2020s and 2030s.
Thus the reason for the push towards the 114 MRFA. And 114 will only be the first batch. Of all the MRFA contestants, only the Rafale C/B and the F-15EX will quench Air HQ's thirst for a hot rod fighter.
I’m sorry but are we/ADA/HAL meant to be grateful for this? 4 years ago the then IAF CAS was committing to 12 squadrons of the MK.2. At this rate come the time the last MK1A is handed over they’ll be back to the 20+20 scenario as with MK.1
They envision the Mk2 to replace the Jaguar and Mirage 2000 fleets. That is 6.5 squadrons (2.5 Mirage 2000 squadrons + 4 Jaguar squadrons). So literally a one-to-one replacement and thus the order book of six Tejas Mk2 squadrons (or 120+ aircraft).KSingh wrote:So starting from scratch yet again? That’s another 20-30 years flushed away
12 squadrons (as IAF committed to in 2018) of LCA MK.2, 2-4 more squadrons of Rafale off the shelf and then full commitment to AMCA
Instead this fixation on MRFA which we all know will never lead to even 1 fighter but will consume the next 10-15 years meanwhile PLAAF and PAF modernise and expand. IAF will be lucky to have a 10 squadron advantage on PAF come 2035 at this rate.
Just so it is crystal clear, I hope PM does the the same with the IAF brass sitting on stage.konaseema wrote:If the higher echelon's of the IAF can't get the message from PM Modi's latest speech, then we have a much bigger problem to deal with. ..
Ahhh ... i learned something today.shaun wrote:Well the argument is we need " real " fighters not lab products .
No saar. ACM Chowdhay will not see the day when 6sqns, nay even 1 sqn is inductued. Not sure how long he will last.Pratyush wrote:So it's final, no more than 6 squadrons will be ordered by the IAF. So much for the IAF standing behind an aircraft that they got designed.
Questioning is integral to Indic thought process.ks_sachin wrote: Or are we accusing the Chief of being less than honourable?
What is it?
I am sure if a journalist asked ACM a month ago , the IAF justification for 42 sqn, he would have no answer.Neela wrote: Prem, you are right. Wrong people in key decisions. And thanks for elucidating the general view. The commitment to MK2 is really baffling - simply because "lack of performance data" cannot be cited. MK1 data is available. It is proven in exercises. High availability already even when further LRU improvements will reduce hangar time. Extrapolation to MK2 with lessons learned on MK1 platform can be done. So it is bordering on bizarre.
What I dont understand is why 6 squadrons. THat number has some background to the thinking of the IAF at this point.
So am i,JTull wrote:I have had enough of this selective amnesia exhibited by ACM from day 1. His apathy for desi products must be more severely dealt with, than a corrigendum that's needed 4 hours after every statement. Nitin Gokhale is appealing for calm but I am livid.
too much time to kill.Pratyush wrote: ... Now the post itself has completely become useless.
If you can restore that post. Please do so. And delete the other 2 posts. If you cannot then delete all 3.
Thanks
This is key. We can/should be respectful to the men in uniform. But they are not above questioning. Our judiciary thinks they are above questioning & we can all see what that has led to.Haridas wrote: Questioning is integral to Indic thought process.
How many grey cells needed to choose weapons for Rafale, instead of ordering Hammer as afterthought, or SAAW?ldev wrote: I would imagine that the IAF does not view these purchases purely from a cost standpoint, but in the context of where the PLAAF and PAF will be in terms of capabilities in the future. The force mix that the IAF plans for today is to face off against the projected capabilities of Indian's adversaries in the mid 2030s and beyond. In that context if by 2035 it is the IAF projection that it will be facing off against an overwhelmingly 5th generation fleet of J-20s and FC-31s from the PLAAF with a strong possibility that China will supply the smaller/lower tier FC-31 to Pakistan, then from the IAF's viewpoint it makes sense to keep a balance in force strength between the LCA Mk 2 and the AMCA, with the AMCA having a much better capability to face off against PLAAF 5th generation fighters. Something similar in the USAF which is cutting back on F-35 Block 3 acquisitions because of the much more capable Block 4 upgrades that are imminent much to the displeasure of politicians there.