Pratyush wrote:yes you are. Because we both know that the service life of a submarine is 30 years at most. A submarine commissioned in 1965 will not be in service beyond 1995. So it's not in service.
Why do you need to run around the bush?
Just answer the question. Simple.
Pratyush wrote:show me the exact sentence in any of my post in the last 24 hours where I have explicitly stated that Arihant be used as an attack submarine.
That is what you are claiming. These are your own words below....
Pratyush wrote:2) A modern 83 MW reactor is perfectly capable doing everything that you have outlined when powering a modern 4000 to 5000 ton boat. Especially when it's already available within India.
Pratyush wrote:3) hydrodynamics are hydrodynamics, once you develop the skills to optimise a design for one set of requirement. It's relatively easy to transfer the skills for other set or requirements. Arihant design would have been completed by 2003-4 at the latest for her launching in 2009. A start at SSN even as late as 2010, would have resulted in a completed design by 2016-17. Along with a boat in the water by 2024-25.
Where is the modern 4,000 to 5,000 ton boat that you are stating that is readily available in India? Please show us the design or the hull of a 4,000 to 5,000 ton boat that a 83MW reactor is just itching to go inside of? Please illustrate to us all. Are we going to upscale the Scorpene, Kilo or HDW 209 design or are we going to downscale the Arihant design? Because in the absence of either, we have to create a new design. I am asking you again ----> Have you conducted any studies to validate what you are stating? Do you have any empirical data to prove your assertion? Show it.
India does NOT have an available SSN hull as of today. It does not
*E-X-I-S-T* other than in your imagination. That SSN design is still being meticulously worked on at the Indian Naval Design Bureau. They have to finalize that design and then validate it. There is a lot of engineering involved here. Some facilities have to be built (and they are) to obtain the desired result. Design is not just a simple 2D drawing of a submarine outline. It is not like someone takes a piece of white paper, draws a submarine on it and goes
VOILA!! Now lets insert our 83MW reactor inside!
Please understand the genesis of the ATV (Advanced Technology Vessel) program, which gave birth to the Arihant Class SSBN program. This was India's first attempt at creating a nuclear powered submarine. It started in the 1970s with an extremely limited budget. India was not awash with cash (compared to today) back in the 1970s. So "scaling back" was the ethos back then. The first goal was to validate the concept and only then could India move on to the next stage. Generous support was provided by the then Soviet Union and later Russia.
This 83MW reactor on the Arihant that you are seeing today is a result of that venture. But 83 MW is not enough today. Today's boats are heavier due to the more capable weapons, sonars, sensors, etc on board. Mission profiles have also changed and require boats with much greater speed and capability that a 83MW reactor will just not be able to provide. And with the experience gained from developing the 83MW reactor, BARC is now creating a new design of a 190MW reactor. It will be similar to the 190MW OK-650B/OK-650M reactor found on the Akula Class. That is one of the primary reasons why India even leased that vessel for 10 years.
This new 190MW CLWR-B2 reactor will power both the next generation Indian SSBN (known as S5) and the next generation SSN (Project 75 Alpha). A 83MW reactor is not going to meet the demand. And today, India has the money to nurture two nuclear powered submarine programs. That was a luxury not available to India in the 70s, 80s or even 90s. If the 83MW reactor was just perfectly fine and dandy, why would BARC fund the development of a new reactor that provides a max output of 190MW? Why would they go down that path? Just for fun?
And India is a country - especially when it comes to military platforms - that will rinse & repeat sub-systems & components, if it works fine on another platform. But to set aside fundamental concepts of physics and let physics take care of itself (as you advocate) is not a path that the services adopt. They are bound by the laws of science, just like all of us are. Perhaps you are not bound by those laws of science. You would do wonders for China's propaganda machine. They will pay you a nice sum
Could it be - as you admitted in your post above - that today's submarines are heavier compared to her predecessors, despite all your talk of barrel rolls and 9g turns? Today's submarines require more powerful reactors, due to their requirements. Why should India be any different? The time and money saved with your 83MW venture on a 4,000 to 5,000 ton boat (that does not even exist!) will come up short against the PLAN's SSNs and their CBGs. This involves lots of money and time. It will be delayed and India will be at a disadvantage because of it, till the vessel arrives. But those are the cards we have to play with. Unless we get SSNs off the shelf from Russia or elsewhere.
Pratyush wrote:Coming to the Indian Navy. The Indian 190 MW reactor has been designed for a larger SSBN carrying larger missiles in greater numbers. When compared to the Arihant.
That is not the full story, as the 190 MW reactor will be used on the Project 75 Alpha as well.
You are just going to have to accept that reality, no matter how much you cry wolf.
Pratyush wrote:The wheel is not getting reinvented. However much you want to believe that it will give the Indian SSN the ability to perform barrel rolls and pull 9g turns. Or even out run a modern heavy torpedo. Nor is the submarine going to be tooling along at 30 + knots 24*7*365.
It is being reinvented, regardless of what you believe. The Navy knows what it is doing and certainly sees no point in putting in a 83MW reactor in a 6,000+ ton SSN. Neither will they use a mythical, non-existant 4,000 to 5,000 ton boat that lives only in your head. What you believe is quite frankly irrelevant to the Indian Navy.
Pratyush wrote:For over 30 years, close to 100 submarines with reactors in the Arihant ball park have done the job. But it's not sufficient for the Indian Navy.
The Foxtrot Class SSK also served the IN well. One of them was eventually used as a test bed for some subsystems. Why don't we just build more Foxtrot Class boats, instead of wasting money on P-75I?
In the same vein, the November Class SSN was the then Soviet Union's first nuclear powered, attack submarine. She had a pair of 70MW reactors. Instead of 83MW Arihant Class SSBNs or the unicorn 83MW 4,000 to 5,000 ton SSN, why don't we just build these instead?
These vessels are old designs, but they did the job. Why waste time & money on newer and more capable vessels?
While we are it, lets retire the surface fleet and move back to sail powered, wooden vessels with cannons. They will be really cheap. Our naval personnel can switch out their whites for pirate uniforms. Will be lots of fun!