Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 19 Oct 2022 15:54

Gen. Surovikin gave some interesting figures to the media (its rare that a Russian general talks candidly to the media). He said, since the start of the conflict, the Russian air force has averaged just 140 sorties /day (excluding helicopters & Strategic bombers) over Ukraine and 30 sorties /day for UAVs. Russia was reportedly averaging 200-250 sorties/day from Feb-Apr, so this is a significant reduction.
He also said the situation was `tense' for his men, all along the front.

dnivas · Post by **dnivas** » 19 Oct 2022 18:56

The civs in Kherson are evacuated to other side of the river. This allows operational flexibility [Blow S*** up]. I think it is a good idea. Should be a interesting few weeks. Let's see how much Ukr will lose trying to take the city.

I am still kinda flabbergasted Ukr is able to collect required troops to assault.

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 19 Oct 2022 23:05

dnivas wrote: I am still kinda flabbergasted Ukr is able to collect required troops to assault.

This is what happens when a country of 40mil does full war mobilization instead of dealing with it as a special operation.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 19 Oct 2022 23:22

of course there are no foreign mercenaries, Nato fighters, Polish tank brigade while we discuss this

^^

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 19 Oct 2022 23:22

Both China & India ask their citizens to leave Ukraine immediately

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 19 Oct 2022 23:25

sohamn · Post by **sohamn** » 20 Oct 2022 00:15

Russia is in a difficult spot now since the newly mobilized troops are not yet combat ready, and Ukranians are trying to capture as much back from Russia before winter sets in.

Russia dug its own grave in Ukraine with colossal mistakes

a) Kept it a special mission instead of general mobilization for 7 months.
b) didn't degrade enemy infrastructure and supply chain early on
c) Didn't do much to reduce the morale of enemy troops
d) Underestimated the help NATO would provide in terms of material and intelligence

USA is the winner so far, since all they have done is arm the bakras and send them to slaughter house, and to their surprise some of these bakras as done surprisingly well. USA will print more greenbacks, mil complex will get more orders, democrats will fill their coffers - and Russia will suffer at ukraine's expense. I think its a dream come true for Biden in the short to med term. Afghanistan redux.

The issue to USA will be in long term, as they are arming JJs (Jesuit Jihadis) and these neo nazis will once day turn around and bite them in their own ass. Again afghanistan redux. 25 years from now usofa may need to fight another war in ukraine, but again against ukraine that time.

dnivas · Post by **dnivas** » 20 Oct 2022 01:59

The issue is that for Russians they considered the Ukr's as brothers. It's similar to telengana and AP people fighting . There is so much blood relations between the 2 states, that in a hypothetical world where there is a conflict, one state would be loathe to kill civilians or bomb rampantly on the other side. There is just too much familial ties, history, common heritage. This is what Russia thought of Ukr and assumed that when they move in, the Ukr ppl would appreciate that Russia did not bomb any of the electrical grids, transportation nodes, water treatment facilities and would rise against the govt.

It's just that the last 20 years of US / NATO money has completely brainwashed the populace. Ukr is a country that has been bombing with artillery their own people. They consider Russian or Russian speaking ukr's sub human and worthy of extermination. School books talk of russians as monsters and eradicating russians. It's just a guide for us to see the playbook that can be employed and divide and conquer in a digital age.

Shocking really that Ukr would stoop to this level and ultimately will end up losing their own country.

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 20 Oct 2022 02:53

dnivas wrote:The issue is that for Russians they considered the Ukr's as brothers.

Not exactly true. They consider Ukraine their immediate sphere of influence culturally, monetarily, and politically and were able to dictate what was acceptable or unacceptable for about 100 years. Communism and the belief in the commie against capitalism glossed over their differences for a bit, but the sheen of communism starting fading. Rightly or not, UKR's does not have the desire to agree to this imposition and integration with Russia, and are aggressively decoupling from Russia, especially the last 20 years. In their eagerness to get away from Russian influence, they have overtly cozied up with US/EURO/NATO and were willing to side step the Russian security threshold/demands.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 20 Oct 2022 04:13

I wonder what has happened today that the West has started talking up that Russia will use nukes in the Black Sea. I mean they were always saying it but it has gone up a notch with Ben Wallace the defence Secretary of UK making an urgent trip to US…

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 20 Oct 2022 05:02

dnivas wrote:The issue is that for Russians they considered the Ukr's as brothers. .

The UKR have never considered the Russians blood brothers. Not sure anyone in the erstwhile Soviet block states considered the Russians blood brothers else there would not have been a stampede to get out of the USSR.

So this is strategic myopia of epic proportions!!

Lets not glorify the Soviet state. It was a failure unless you measure success in terms how many tanks and missiles it produced.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 20 Oct 2022 08:30

Any dreams of an akhand USSR without communism based on bhaichara and goodwill of the people is a Russian delusion. Any strategy based on this assumption is a non starter.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 20 Oct 2022 09:01

Jay wrote:
dnivas wrote:The issue is that for Russians they considered the Ukr's as brothers.
Not exactly true. They consider Ukraine their immediate sphere of influence culturally, monetarily, and politically and were able to dictate what was acceptable or unacceptable for about 100 years. Communism and the belief in the commie against capitalism glossed over their differences for a bit, but the sheen of communism starting fading. Rightly or not, UKR's does not have the desire to agree to this imposition and integration with Russia, and are aggressively decoupling from Russia, especially the last 20 years. In their eagerness to get away from Russian influence, they have overtly cozied up with US/EURO/NATO and were willing to side step the Russian security threshold/demands.

I would put this in a more nuanced way:
Russia considers Ukraine to be within its sphere of interest, as the US considers Mexico or Canada to be and we consider Bhutan. The feeling is more in Russia, as they were one country for 70 years and one people (Slav Orthodox) for 500.

Russia suffered more under communism than any other country, so Russians do not, beyond a point, like to be told by Ukrainians that `we hate Russia' because Stalin (who wasn't Russian) caused a famine in the 1930s.
There is a significant percentage of Ukrainians who are ethnically Russian. They do not want to get away from Russian influence, on the contrary they would like stronger ties with Russia. It includes the Donbass and Crimea.
There is also a significant Ukrainian population of mixed ethnicity (Speak Russian, relatives in Russia), who would like to have friendly ties with both Russia and the west.
The Western quarter of Ukraine, annexed in WW2, which is largely Polish and Catholic, is anti Russia.
All previous Ukrainian leaders (incl. Soviet ones) have balanced each side. It was in Ukraine's interest to maintain friendly ties with both Russia and NATO, as any buffer state should. The problem started when Ukraine swung too much in the Anti Russia direction.

mody · Post by **mody** » 20 Oct 2022 12:54

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/ru ... 766cf3f72c

Another article quoting the Russian general as having told Russian media, that the situation in Kherson is difficult. The article is from Newsweek, so take it for what it is. But from all available news sources and what @Deans has said above, the situation does seem to be grim. Today's TOI also reports that 60-70,000 people are to be evacuated from Kherson and Russia has already started with an aim for 10,000 people per day.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 20 Oct 2022 14:15

https://twitter.com/Exusnx/status/15829 ... mEruGhW1Ag
The Ukrainians have a nuclear warhead in Mykolaiv and will detonate it, destroying the city and killing tens of thousands of civilians, in order to pin blame on Russia and allow the NATO to attack Russia. - Russian State TV.

https://twitter.com/Ewol81648883/status ... mEruGhW1Ag Russia TV link

any input Deans saar!!??

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 20 Oct 2022 14:33

No different from the claims that Russians are going to use nukes in Ukraine from NATO.

Besides, where did Ukraine acquired the nuclear weapom?

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 20 Oct 2022 17:54

Russian jet fired missile in vicinity of British plane over Black sea 'Russia said it was a technical malfunction'
https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-ne ... 14638.html

bala · Post by **bala** » 20 Oct 2022 22:36

Scott Ritter: Talks Russian Holds Defensive & Putin Martial Law

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 20 Oct 2022 23:07

For your consideration: 80 minutes long

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 20 Oct 2022 23:44

Pratyush wrote:No different from the claims that Russians are going to use nukes in Ukraine from NATO.

Besides, where did Ukraine acquired the nuclear weapom?

Pretty sure Ukrainians can create a dirty bomb. They have knowledge with all nuclear reactors there. I'm sure if there is any gap, US can pitch in. Enough plausible deniability there. Blame it on Russia. By the time, chaff is separated from wheat, things would have moves on. Russia and the world would have suffered and they would have achieved their objectives.

So, everything is possible now.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 20 Oct 2022 23:48

^^^^^

i **think** nuclear isotopes can be traced back to their source

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 21 Oct 2022 00:10

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 21 Oct 2022 00:12

NRao wrote:^^^^^

i **think** nuclear isotopes can be traced back to their source

sir both germany & sweden have sort of completed investigation on nord stream blastt, do we know a word on it? What is the assurance in case a n device is boomed we will get to know the truth?

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 21 Oct 2022 00:13

videos and posts all over that dam & hydropower associated will be at heart of Kherson battle .. if it is destroyed Kherson is submerged and Crimea water supply is broken

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 21 Oct 2022 00:36

IndraD wrote:
NRao wrote:^^^^^

i **think** nuclear isotopes can be traced back to their source
sir both germany & sweden have sort of completed investigation on nord stream blastt, do we know a word on it? What is the assurance in case a n device is boomed we will get to know the truth?

Sweden/Germany are entities only on a map. There is no nation in the "EU" that has the ability to make decisions for itself. The US has total control over them.

Do not have too much info about such matters, but per my thinking, I think isotopes cannot lie. Isotopes - per my thinking - can be traced by any nuclear power and the US cannot challenge the results.

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 21 Oct 2022 02:19

NRao wrote:^^^^^

i **think** nuclear isotopes can be traced back to their source

Yes, that is why I said...

By the time, chaff is separated from wheat, things would have moved on. Russia and the world would have suffered and they would have achieved their objectives.

Investigator will be them, they control media, after initial blame on Russia, things will be moved fast before anyone can realise and do anything. The narrative will be controlled by the people initiating this action.

The truths will hardly matter once the required actions have been taken.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 21 Oct 2022 02:27

The recent brouhaha over nuclear weapons seems to be a manufactured outrage to keep the news cycle going. The sequence seems to be like this:

Russia issues a number of NOTAMs for multiple days in the Barents Sea and the Arkhangelsk region
Some journalist speculate that these are because Russia wants to test a tactical nuclear device
Nothing happens
Journalists speculate that the device was not tested because it did not work or officials in Russia sabotaged it
This means Putin is weak and will soon be out of power
UK takes out time from its internal problems to warn Russia of serious consequences if nukes are used
Russia still does nothing

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 21 Oct 2022 03:27

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 21 Oct 2022 04:10

To accompany the mobilization of the 300,000 troops, the Kremlin passed a few decrees to support the expansion. Essentially they are designed to support an expansion in the manufacturing of arms, etc. Here is (from the Kremlin website, where all such items can be found) a concise version of perhaps many decrees:

Instructions on meeting the needs of the special military operation

The President approved a list of instructions on meeting the needs arising during the special military operation.

October 19, 202214:55

The instruction to the Government of the Russian Federation has to do with setting up a coordination council under the Government of the Russian Federation in order to meet the needs arising during the special military operation (including to secure the supply and repair of weapons, military and special equipment, materiel, medical and sanitary services, repairs and restoration, construction, installation and other works, and logistics). It is envisaged that this council will be headed by the Prime Minister and include representatives of the Ministry of Defence, the Ministry of the Interior, the Ministry of Emergencies, the National Guard, the Federal Security Service, the Foreign Intelligence Service, the Chief Directorate for Special Programmes of the Russian President, other federal executive bodies, and the State Council of the Russian Federation.

The State Council Commission on State and Municipal Government was instructed to ensure the coordination between the regional bodies of state power as they introduce a response at various levels, as well as organise interaction between regional and federal state bodies in the implementation of the above activities.

The coordination council was instructed to determine the target objective for meeting the needs arising during the special military operation, the key efforts and deadlines for meeting this objective, as well the Government members responsible for each effort.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 21 Oct 2022 04:52

Ukraine war: Iranian drone experts 'on the ground' in Crimea - US
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63329266

Iran has deployed military experts in Russian-occupied Crimea to help launch drone attacks on Ukraine, the White House says.

The Iranians are trainers and tech support workers, a US spokesman said.

The Ukrainian capital, Kyiv, was struck by so-called "kamikaze" drones on Monday, deployed by Russia but believed to be Iranian-made.

The UK has announced sanctions on Iranian businesses and individuals responsible for supplying the drones.

"We assess that Iranian military personnel were on the ground in Crimea and assisted Russia in these operations," White House national security spokesman John Kirby told reporters.

A "relatively small" number of Iranians are providing technical support and Russians are piloting the drones in Ukraine, he said.

"Tehran is now directly engaged on the ground, and through the provision of weapons that are impacting civilians and civilian infrastructure in Ukraine," Mr Kirby said.

The US will "pursue all means" to "expose, deter and confront Iran's provision of these munitions against the Ukrainian people", he added.

How is Russia using 'kamikaze' drones in Ukraine?
Ukraine identified the drones - or unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) - used on Monday as Iranian Shahed-136 weapons.

They are known as "kamikaze" drones because they are destroyed in the attack - named after the Japanese fighter pilots who flew suicide missions in World War Two.

Russia has used the drones and missiles to hit critical infrastructure around Ukraine in recent days, destroying almost a third of the country's power stations since Monday last week.

As a result, restrictions on electricity use were introduced in Ukraine for the first time on Thursday.

Russian drone strikes have hit Kyiv
The UK has announced sanctions on three Iranian generals and an arms firm over Russia's use of Iranian drones to attack Ukraine.

UK Foreign Secretary James Cleverly accused those listed of "warmongering" and profiting off Moscow's "abhorrent" attacks.

Among those targeted is the chief of staff of Iran's armed forces, Major General Mohammad Hossein Bagheri, as well as Shahed Aviation Industries, a drone manufacturer.

Meanwhile, Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky has accused Moscow of placing explosives on a key dam in southern Ukraine.

If the Kakhovka hydroelectric power plant is critically damaged, 80 towns and cities could be flooded and the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant could be left without water for cooling, Mr Zelensky said.

It could also deprive the whole of southern Ukraine, including Crimea, of its water supply.

On Wednesday, the respected Institute for the Study of War think tank reported that Moscow may be planning an attack on the dam which it would blame on Ukraine, believing that the resulting flooding may give Russian forces cover as they retreat from parts of the Kherson region. The dam is 70km (45 miles) north-east of the city of Kherson.

Russia is evacuating civilians from the parts of Kherson region under its control, in expectation of a Ukrainian offensive to take the city.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 21 Oct 2022 11:47

IndraD wrote: On Wednesday, the respected Institute for the Study of War think tank reported that Moscow may be planning an attack on the dam which it would blame on Ukraine, believing that the resulting flooding may give Russian forces cover as they retreat from parts of the Kherson region. The dam is 70km (45 miles) north-east of the city of Kherson.

ISW is funded and run by the Neocon, Victoria Nuland (family). It's very pro-Ukraine in its coverage.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 21 Oct 2022 12:21

IndraD wrote:Russian jet fired missile in vicinity of British plane over Black sea 'Russia said it was a technical malfunction'
https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-ne ... 14638.html

The aspect of NATO AWACS 24*7 and USAF transport fleet to keep the supplies going from US West to Ukraine is discussed very little. it must be taking a huge toll on the US, AWACS, USAF transport fleet - they must be using up a lot of spares.

Ukraine does not light up its radars until NATO warns them of incoming Russian strike

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 21 Oct 2022 13:24

Iranian Revolutionary Guard 'on the ground' aiding Russia in Crimea, says intelligence report

British and US intelligence says the Iranian Revolutionary Guard is on the ground in Crimea, supporting Russian drone attacks on Ukraine.

America's National Security Council spokesman John Kirby said Iran had sent personnel to assist Vladimir Putin's troops in launching Iranian-made drones on Ukraine's power stations and other key infrastructure.This includes members of a branch of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps - one of the most powerful paramilitary organisations in the Middle East - according to UK government reports.

The Intelligence finding comes as US President Joe Biden seeks to mount international pressure on Tehran to pull back from helping Russia.

Moscow, in recent days, has increasingly turned to the Iranian-supplied drones, as well as its own Kalibr and Iskander cruise missiles, to carry out a barrage of attacks against Ukrainian infrastructure and non-military targets.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 21 Oct 2022 13:33

News put out by Eurasiantimes is 90% of the time gobar gas. So for what it is worth.
Ukraine Says 200+ Iranian UAVs Shot Down; Expert Admits Russian Drones Are Bleeding Kyiv Militarily & Financially

According to a statement from the Air Force of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the anti-aircraft defense units of the Air Force and other components of the Ukrainian Defense Forces have destroyed 223 Iranian-made Shahed-136 suicide drones.

The statement further noted that the first Iranian-made drone was shot down on Ukrainian soil on September 13 in Kupiansk. Kyiv attributed the defeat of these drones to fighter jets and air defense missile systems.

Meanwhile, US Defense Department Press Secretary Pat Ryder said on Thursday that Iranian drones provided to Russian forces are wreaking havoc despite a limited ability by Ukraine to shoot down some of the aerial systems.

This raises serious concerns about the feasibility of using expensive missiles launched by various weapon systems to combat such inexpensive drones. According to Ukraine, its anti-aircraft defense systems have eliminated 85% of the Russian invaders’ Shahed-136 drones.

Experts, however, pointed out that the issue is not the efficiency of Ukraine’s weapon systems but the cost of the missiles used by those defense systems. The current situation shows that Moscow is attacking Ukraine’s civilian infrastructure with kamikaze drones.

William Alberque, Director of Strategy, Technology, and Arms Control for IISS, told the EurAsian Times — “cheap suicide drones is complex and difficult. The attacker can use a number of strategies to cause maximum damage.”

“One is to attack many different targets – and attack those targets from unexpected directions rather than a frontal assault – making defense very difficult. Another is to use many drones against a single target – again attacking from all directions – greatly increasing your chance of hitting the target,” he added.

The Iranian-supplied low-cost drones have caused significant damage to Ukraine. A recent report claims that an air battle between a Russian drone and a Ukrainian MiG-29 resulted in the downing of the Ukrainian aircraft.

Military leaders have also voiced similar concerns in the past. For instance, a top US Army general disclosed in 2017 that a consumer-grade quadcopter drone was destroyed using a Patriot PAC-2 missile, a multi-million dollar air defense missile.

At the time, the downing of a consumer-grade drone raised concerns about the viability of anti-drone defenses globally and the scarcity of affordable solutions to counter the threat posed by armed drones.

That said, a consumer-grade drone can be purchased on social networking sites like Amazon for around $200. However, the PAC-2 missile used in that incident cost between $2 and $4 million per unit.

It’s worth pointing out that there have been recent reports that the US or its allies could equip Ukraine with Patriot air missile defense systems.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 21 Oct 2022 15:07

https://www.rt.com/russia/565060-putin- ... ed-troops/
Putin fires rifle on visit to mobilized troops (VIDEO)

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 21 Oct 2022 15:13

Roadside cameras stolen in Sweden may end up in Russian drones

Sweden has been hit recently by a wave of roadside camera thefts, with up to 100 units reportedly missing already. Cameras of the same type have been discovered in Russian drones operating in Ukraine, local media reports, suggesting the occurrences might be linked.

At least three more camera units had gone missing from the E16 highway between the towns of Hofors and Falun over the previous 24-hour period, daily newspaper Aftonbladet reported Wednesday. Another two thefts of the devices have been reported by local newspaper Sodra Dalarnes Tidning.

The affected speed cameras are equipped with Cannon-brand digital single-lens reflex cameras (DSLR), Aftonbladet noted. Cameras of the same type have been found by Kiev troops in captured Russian “home-made drones,” the newspaper reported, citing a video recently released by the Ukrainian military. Footage appears to show wreckage of a Russian Orlan-10 (Earle-10) surveillance UAV, which is standard equipment for the country’s military, with a Ukrainian serviceman showing a bulky camera, said to have been salvaged from it.

https://nord.news/2022/10/20/road-camer ... nes-media/

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 22 Oct 2022 03:06

Shah Rukh Khan-Zelenskiy calls on West to warn Russia not to blow up dam https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/uk ... 022-10-19/

very suspicious! Why would Russia blow up water supply to Crimea? Is it possible Ukraine is preparing to blow the dam and submerge the area?

bala · Post by **bala** » 22 Oct 2022 04:57

Gonzalo Lira (who is somewhere in Ukraine) take on the war.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 22 Oct 2022 05:31

thats a treasure trove bala, many thanks!

bala · Post by **bala** » 22 Oct 2022 07:31

IndraD I am glad you enjoyed Lira's take. I know many on this forum glibly talk about Nukes based on Western Media gibberish.

Here Scott Ritter explains why Nukes are out of discussion between Nato and Russia because that would be the end of the world as we know it.