Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 27 Oct 2022 09:43

There was an interesting point made about Russian soldiers entering Belarus.
Russian training facilities cannot cope with the need to retain 300,000 men, so some of them are using training facilities in Belarus. Belarus has put its army and hardware under joint Russia-Belarus command and there is already fuel and ammo, in place if a Russian force has to attack Ukraine from Belarus. Ukraine will have to divert some men to protect the approaches to Kiev, because they cannot be sure if there is a serious threat from Belarus, or if the trainees will go back to Russia.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 28 Oct 2022 01:41

Elon Musk#s Starlink could become target of Russia in ongoing war. https://www.ibtimes.com/quasi-civilian- ... ia-3613883

"We would like to underline an extremely dangerous trend that goes beyond the harmless use of outer space technologies and has become apparent during the events in Ukraine. Namely, the use by the United States and its allies of the elements of civilian, including commercial infrastructure in outer space for military purposes," the unofficial English translation of the statement read.
The head of the Russian delegation also implied that these countries are not aware that "such actions constitute indirect involvement in military conflicts." The statement further said, "Quasi-civilian infrastructure may become a legitimate target for retaliation."

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 28 Oct 2022 14:17

By opening Starlink for military uses, Musk has made it a legit target if Russia so chooses. That would also set an important precedent in future conflicts.

kit · Post by **kit** » 28 Oct 2022 21:34

IndraD wrote:Elon Musk#s Starlink could become target of Russia in ongoing war. https://www.ibtimes.com/quasi-civilian- ... ia-3613883
"We would like to underline an extremely dangerous trend that goes beyond the harmless use of outer space technologies and has become apparent during the events in Ukraine. Namely, the use by the United States and its allies of the elements of civilian, including commercial infrastructure in outer space for military purposes," the unofficial English translation of the statement read.
The head of the Russian delegation also implied that these countries are not aware that "such actions constitute indirect involvement in military conflicts." The statement further said, "Quasi-civilian infrastructure may become a legitimate target for retaliation."

happening already., starlink satellites are under massive electronic jamming., Musk has gone on record saying they are spending a fortune on just keeping the satellites up and going.

But yes Russians could up the game

kit · Post by **kit** » 28 Oct 2022 22:06

https://worldview.stratfor.com/situatio ... w-advances

bala · Post by **bala** » 28 Oct 2022 23:05

Don't know whether Micron and Sargent Scholz are agreeing to bypass the US (note: Vonder Lying collusion) but ..

https://www.rt.com/news/565500-politico ... ectionism/
Germany and France agree on pushback against US plans – Politico

Scholz and Macron reportedly deem Washington’s planned incentive scheme for foreign investors as unfair competition. The news website Politico claimed on Thursday that Chancellor Olaf Scholz and President Emmanuel Macron are both concerned over the White House's Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) , which they deem “protectionist.” According to the outlet, citing “people familiar with their discussions,” the two leaders agreed that the state subsidy plan announced by the US would constitute unfair competition, and should not go unanswered. “[Scholz and I] have a real convergence to move forward on the topic, we had a very good conversation,” Macron added.

The ‘EU-US Taskforce on the Inflation Reduction Act’ that was created on Tuesday during a meeting between European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen and US Deputy National Security Adviser Mike Pyle.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 29 Oct 2022 01:43

^^^^^

Politico :: Scholz and Macron threaten trade retaliation against Biden

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 29 Oct 2022 01:44

https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/statu ... NscYGJ0NnA Tommorow a protest action of widows and reliatives of servicemen of the 24th ombr was announced in Lviv
All their husbands and relatives have been missing for many months,AFU is hiding the truth from the widows in order not to pay compensation.

looks like Ukr shows soldiers as disappeared so that they dont have to pay compensation

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 29 Oct 2022 10:38

10-15 seconds long

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 29 Oct 2022 17:08

Gas wars: Is Putin losing the battle?

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 29 Oct 2022 17:13

Russia says British navy personnel blew up Nord Stream gas pipelines
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ru ... 022-10-29/

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 29 Oct 2022 17:57

https://www.economist.com/europe/2022/1 ... er-kherson

Russia braces for a battle over Kherson
It is the gateway to Crimea

Oct 27th 2022 | KYIV

Months of Ukrainian artillery strikes seem at last to have paved the way for advances on the ground in surrounding Kherson province. Since early October, Ukrainian forces have broken through Russian defences in the province’s north-east, recapturing more than 500 sq km of territory. But the evacuation of the city, and the withdrawal of some troops, does not mean Russia is about to give it up. The advancing Ukrainians want to avoid an urban battle, which would risk leaving the city in ruins. But they may have no choice.

Kherson is the gateway to Crimea, which Russia has occupied since 2014. In September, a month after Ukraine launched its southern counteroffensive, the Russians formally annexed Kherson province, along with three others: Luhansk, Donetsk and Zaporizhia. Heavy Ukrainian shelling, and the use of American himars artillery systems capable of hitting targets deep behind enemy lines, have destroyed Russian bases and supply routes, including bridges over the Dnieper.

But this has not softened up Russian defences as much as expected. “We believed they would try to move their bases far away to save their officers and armour,” says Volodymyr Omelyan, an army captain and former government minister, who recently came back from the Kherson front. “But after we destroy one base, they move more people into place and we hit once again.” Mr Omelyan says that Russian commanding officers are indeed being moved back to the eastern bank of the river, but are being replaced by ordinary troops, including new conscripts.

The Russians are pulling back their most capable troops to refashion them into units that would be able to go on the offensive early next year, says a Ukrainian intelligence source. The defence of the Russian strongholds will be left mostly to newly mobilised troops. At least for now, the Russians are not retreating, but regrouping. Russia cannot afford to abandon the Dnieper’s western bank to the Ukrainians, says Oleg Zhdanov, a military expert. “The defence in the Zaporizhia direction would collapse. They would lose the nuclear power plant, the North Crimean Canal, meaning the water supply to Crimea, and the land corridor to Crimea,” he says. But the Russians are keenly aware that Ukraine has the momentum.

Meanwhile, Russia has begun to talk up the threat of a dirty bomb or an attack on the nuclear plant in Zaporizhia, which it would blame on the Ukrainians. Volodymyr Zelensky, the Ukrainian president, claims Russia is planning to blow up the dam at Nova Kakhovka, upriver from Kherson. The resulting floods would prevent Ukrainian troops from pursuing the Russians across the Dnieper. They would also displace hundreds of thousands of people.

Russia’s warnings are directly related to the situation in Kherson. Vladimir Putin is hoping to put pressure on Ukraine and its Western partners to accede to negotiations and a ceasefire, says Mr Zhdanov. “Putin needs to stop Ukraine’s armed forces at any cost,” he says, “because he understands that his army is not holding what they have captured.” The Ukrainians are not likely to give in to such blackmail. In Kherson, Mr Putin and his commanders may soon face some difficult choices indeed.

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 29 Oct 2022 19:27

IndraD wrote:Russia says British navy personnel blew up Nord Stream gas pipelines
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ru ... 022-10-29/

https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/15 ... gr%5Etweet

To detract from their disastrous handling of the illegal invasion of Ukraine, the Russian Ministry of Defence is resorting to peddling false claims of an epic scale

This invented story, says more about arguments going on inside the Russian Government than it does about the west
3:40 pm · 29 Oct 2022
·Hootsuite Inc.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 29 Oct 2022 19:36

Im sure these claims of MoD UK is as trustworthy as WMD in Iraq

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 29 Oct 2022 20:40

Russia claims its Black sea fleet was attacked with (American) drones from Ukrainian side as a result Russia is forced to stop grain export https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63437212

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 29 Oct 2022 20:45

NRao wrote:10-15 seconds long

Official figure is 300,000 who were called up reported (negligible no of deserters).
82000 completed retaining and reported to their units. Of these 41000 are in combat formations and the rest in support units.
Remaining 218000 are in the process of completing training (constraint is training capacity).

An additional 13,000 volunteers (with military experience) also completed retraining and sent to their units.
If these numbers are officially released the number of newly mobilised is at least this much.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 29 Oct 2022 20:49

Deans saar any input on drone attack on Russian naval fleet>what drones, if an y vessel was fatally damaged.

Ru also has claimed it was UK military which blew up Nord gas pipe line

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 29 Oct 2022 20:58

IndraD wrote:Im sure these claims of MoD UK is as trustworthy as WMD in Iraq

I’m not sure if the Russian Government statements in this war are entirely trustworthy either.

https://tass.com/world/1404247

MOSCOW, February 16. /TASS/. Russian Foreign Ministry Spokeswoman Maria Zakharova has jokingly asked American and British media outlets to release a schedule of Russia’s "upcoming invasions" of Ukraine for the current year.

"I’d like to request US and British disinformation: Bloomberg, The New York Times and The Sun media outlets to publish the schedule for our upcoming invasions for the year. I’d like to plan my vacation," the Russian diplomat said on her Telegram channel Wednesday.

Kremlin Spokesman Dmitry Peskov castigated these statements as an "empty and groundless" escalation of tensions, emphasizing that Russia posed no threat to anyone.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 29 Oct 2022 21:26

dozens of country lying in the UN to attack Iraq with lethal bombing to take it to stone age vs Russia in Feb telling it doesn't intend to invade? ofcourse great parallel.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 29 Oct 2022 21:28

Ukraine urges Russia to 'respect its obligations' on grain deal: minister https://twitter.com/AFP/status/15863850 ... A3lCi8lBCg

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 29 Oct 2022 21:29

IndraD wrote:Ukraine urges Russia to 'respect its obligations' on grain deal: minister https://twitter.com/AFP/status/15863850 ... A3lCi8lBCg

There were two deals made: Russia-Turkey and Ukraine-Turkey. Turkey is actually on the hook.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 29 Oct 2022 21:36

Zakharova herself was most likely unaware on 19Feb that the invasion would start on 24Feb. Happens all the time to Govt spokespersons.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 29 Oct 2022 21:39

If US drones were used for attack on Russian fleet, does it change the dynamics?

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 29 Oct 2022 22:22

Cyrano wrote:Zakharova herself was most likely unaware on 19Feb that the invasion would start on 24Feb. Happens all the time to Govt spokespersons.

Government spokespersons provide information / disinformation as per the direction of their superiors in government. They don’t speak in a personal capacity.

I note you did not address Peskov’s claim that Russia did not pose a threat to any country. Ukraine might beg to differ.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 29 Oct 2022 22:37

THE biggest threat to Ukraine (and the EU) is the US. To be more precise the neocons in the US.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 29 Oct 2022 22:55

If you may recollect, the months and weeks before Feb 24 were filled with lot of diplomatic flurry, phone calls and parleys, since troop mobilisation has been happening on both sides for months and Russia was conducting"exercises" along the ukr border. Macron was shuttling to Moscow and trying to get some kind of security construct for Ukra-een and avoid war while Biden was predicting imminent invasion.

We won't know all that happened but at some point Russia determined that they were being duped just like they were on Minsk accords since 2014. They also made an assessment that Macron's parleys were a tactic for buying time for an AFU offensive in Donbass after spring thaw, and decided to invade preemptively on Feb24.

Its also possible that such determinations were made months earlier and Russia was playing the west with such public statements. Such foreplay is not exclusive for just the US!

Like you said, spokespersons are ordered what to say as the official line of the moment and take the criticism instead of the real leaders. The statements that really matter come from Putin, Lavrov and rarely Shoigu.

BTW, the gymnastics of the current White House spokesperson are so mind bending that Zakharova or Peskov are simply no match!

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 30 Oct 2022 00:14

As a result of the actions (which cannot be qualified as anything other than a terrorist attack) by the #Ukraine AF, led by the British specialists, directed, in particular, against Russian ships ensuring the functioning of the humanitarian corridor… https://twitter.com/RusEmbIndia/status/ ... Xc4TgAcHSw

Russia accusing UK of direct involvement in attack on naval fleet

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 30 Oct 2022 00:31

UK is itching to get into the fight directly, and hopes to trigger NATO response if Russia loses patience and responds as desired.

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 30 Oct 2022 01:51

The UK (or for that matter, US and NATO) are not itching to fight Russia. If they wanted to, they would let Ukraine into NATO. They will certainly support Ukraine with weapons, training and intelligence. Ukraine’s armed forces are proving to be pretty proficient. There is no need or desire to have NATO forces involved directly in the conflict. Russia is steadily losing ground to Ukraine armed forces, and therefore the increased desperation of the measures and the rhetoric emanating from the Kremlin.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 30 Oct 2022 02:20

Ukrainian "Armed forces" do not exist.

There are plenty of reports - some from UKR - that there are some 4/5 languages being used by combatants. I would argue that like the Wagner Group the West has a similar group fighting for the West.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 30 Oct 2022 03:55

Cyrano wrote:UK is itching to get into the fight directly, and hopes to trigger NATO response if Russia loses patience and responds as desired.

US is trying to trigger Russia into something rash which means Russia is doing pretty well in tactics

Roop · Post by **Roop** » 30 Oct 2022 06:00

eklavya wrote:The UK (or for that matter, US and NATO) are not itching to fight Russia.

Yes they are -- at least a part of NATO is. US/UK/Poland are itching for a fight. The rest of NATO wants no part of it.

If they wanted to, they would let Ukraine into NATO.

They have no ability to do that. They would never get required the unanimous consent from other NATO members.

Ukraine’s armed forces are proving to be pretty proficient.

Sure! That's why half their country is under occupation and they have zero ability to redress that situation. And they have suffered hundreds of thousands of casualties in the bargain. That's some major-league level of military proficiency right there.

Russia is steadily losing ground to Ukraine armed forces...

In the agitprop make-believe world of Washington & Whitehall... maybe. In the real world, no.

and therefore the increased desperation of the measures and the rhetoric emanating from the Kremlin.

Well, there's a lot of desperate rhetoric being slung around alright, but it's not from the Kremlin. It's from the aforementioned Washington/Whitehall nexus.

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 30 Oct 2022 06:15

The main problem with russia has been that it had been treating this as a special operation. They were desperately hoping for a peace deal with Ukraine on their terms, but that didn't work out. They lost many men and equipment in the process. Now, they realise the futility in that and have started the process towards actual war aimed at destroying Ukraine, but that pivot is taking time. Once that is done, then Russia will get upper hand. Till that time, it is just going to be grinder like this.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 30 Oct 2022 06:30

eklavya wrote:The UK (or for that matter, US and NATO) are not itching to fight Russia.

Snip....

https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2022/10/2 ... -CIA-chief

A former CIA chief has floated a trial baloon in order to gauge public reaction to a direct US involvement in Ukraine.

So I would not make a categorical statement about what the US and UK are planning to do.

Added later: fixed the link

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 30 Oct 2022 07:01

vinod wrote:The main problem with russia has been that it had been treating this as a special operation. They were desperately hoping for a peace deal with Ukraine on their terms, but that didn't work out. They lost many men and equipment in the process. Now, they realise the futility in that and have started the process towards actual war aimed at destroying Ukraine, but that pivot is taking time. Once that is done, then Russia will get upper hand. Till that time, it is just going to be grinder like this.

So what would they have done different if it was a full blown operation/ war?

Since this is a combat tactic thread lets get specific.

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 30 Oct 2022 14:39

ks_sachin wrote: So what would they have done different if it was a full blown operation/ war?

Since this is a combat tactic thread lets get specific.

Complete destruction of the country from day one. Something like the "shock and awe" that happened in Iraq for 40 days. Nothing left when the ground forces move in.

But then, Russia wanted an independent state with a peace deal next door rather than ruins. Now, they are on back foot and momentum with Ukraine and all kinds of help from NATO , it has become a real struggle.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 30 Oct 2022 18:32

nandakumar · Post by **nandakumar** » 30 Oct 2022 18:44

vinod wrote:
ks_sachin wrote: So what would they have done different if it was a full blown operation/ war?

Since this is a combat tactic thread lets get specific.
Complete destruction of the country from day one. Something like the "shock and awe" that happened in Iraq for 40 days. Nothing left when the ground forces move in.

But then, Russia wanted an independent state with a peace deal next door rather than ruins. Now, they are on back foot and momentum with Ukraine and all kinds of help from NATO , it has become a real struggle.

When you consider that one-third of Ukraine is sympathetic or at least identify themselves as Russian a total destruction is the last thing you want. Also they can't do an Iraq on Ukraine like the US. The latter had 10,000 kms of distance between them. For Russia, the predicament is that a rump State of Ukraine would still be a neighbour's. You don't want a nuisance in your backyard. I don't know about military tactics but it makes good political sense. War after all is politics by other means.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 30 Oct 2022 20:55

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ru ... 022-10-30/
Russia says it recovers drones used in Black Sea fleet attack in Crimea

MOSCOW, Oct 30 (Reuters) - Russia's defence ministry on Sunday said it had recovered and analysed the wreckage of drones used to attack ships of Russia's Black Sea Fleet in Crimea the day before, finding that the drones were equipped with Canadian-made navigation.

The ministry has said Ukraine attacked the Black Sea Fleet near Sevastopol with 16 drones early on Saturday, and that British navy "specialists" had helped coordinate what it called a terrorist attack, a claim Britain has denied.

Russia said it had repelled the attack but that the ships targeted were involved in ensuring the grain corridor out of Ukraine's Black Sea ports.

Ukrainian officials have suggested that Russia itself may have been responsible for the explosions, which it has used as a pretext to pull out of a U.N.-brokered grain deal, a move that undermines efforts to ease a global food crisis.

Reuters was not immediately able to verify either side's claims.

According to the results of the information recovered from the navigation receiver's memory, it was established that the launch of maritime drones was carried out from the coast near the city of Odesa," the ministry said in a statement.

It said the drones had moved along the "grain corridor" security zone, before changing course to head for Russia's naval base in Sevastopol, the largest city on the Crimean peninsula that Russia annexed from Ukraine in 2014.

The ministry said one of the maritime drones appeared to have started from within the security zone of grain corridor itself.

Guddu · Post by **Guddu** » 31 Oct 2022 04:43

Looks like the Brits blew up the NS2 pipeline. Per the Independent
"While Russia has identified Britain as acting on behalf of the United States to blow up the Nord Stream Pipeline as Britain publicly denies it, Liz Truss' phone was hacked. One minute after the pipeline was destroyed she sent a text to Secretary Anthony Blinken "It's done." The Independent has acknowledged that Russia has hacked Liz Truss' phone. This is an act of war."