Aero India 2023

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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by chiru »

arshyam wrote:Pathetic traffic management. It's been 2.5 hrs since I left, and still stuck at Yelahanka. Our awesome traffic police in all their wisdom have insisted that even air show bound special buses won't be allowed in the main carriageway. So we are stuck in one spot for the past 10+ mins with the air base nowhere in sight. If this is the condition today, I can only shudder at tomorrow and Friday.
Sir you parked your vehicle near gkvk and took the air show shuttle ?.

I though you would take the airport bus and get down at yelahanka afs.

I'm confused about how to reach the airbase without my vehicle.
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by Cyrano »

Any news on SARAS - II ?
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by BhairavP »

Best way for jingos to get to the show from MG Road? I've got a trip to BLR scheduled tomorrow, and am there for a week. Would love to attend the show - best to take a Metro or just Uber it? All inputs welcome.
Thanks.
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by Prem Kumar »

Image

Photo of Pralay specs from Aero India by unmentionable blog. Interesting info: Pralay has an MMW seeker for terminal guidance, which makes its CEP less than 10 meters!

A maneuvering missile, achieving such precision with a 500 - 1000 Kg payload, at such ranges, is truly lethal

The seeker has never been mentioned anywhere before
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by nits »

Some amazing Videos from You Tube; Credit to Original Authors



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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by Zynda »

Just returned from the show. Firstly about the arrangement/show timings. In earlier AIs, on all days IIRC, the air display would happen twice a day...once in the morning & the other in the afternoon. This time, on business days its only once per day. To be fair, during booking itself, one could get a clue since for general days, one has chose slot between morning or afternoon and this is absent on business days. Perhaps it was mentioned somewhere during the booking process and I overlooked it, the show started at 11 AM. Moi got myself there @ 9 AM (earlier show would start @ 10 AM) to get a good spot. This time, in ADVA, there are chairs and chairs are placed a good distance away from the fence. The good is that one can sit & watch but the bad is that as the show progressed, people randomly start standing in front/side of you thus forcing you to get up as well. Today a couple of schools had brought their kids and they were the worst...so unruly & rude. Anyways, the crowd wasn't as much as previous AIs...

Since my commute was a good 25+ Kms...I left early @ around 7:30 AM (thinking I should reach by 9)...so traffic was light but there was some confusion with traffic diversions. AI traffic were not allowed on the flyover...mix it along with usual traffic...its a recipe for congestion & mess. I think BTP does not know how to handle very large volume of traffic.

Now for the show...since I reached early, we got treated with a bunch of An-32 take-offs & landings, a few Do-228s, one Il-76, couple of C-130s and of course, HAL's Rotor birds kept on arriving & departing. Il-76 take off is a sight to witness...the actual show started of with Sarang, followed by Tejas. Next was F-35 (apparently one of the demo planes is being piloted by a female)...I liked the F-35 demo...in usual US style...massive thrust to overcome bulky fuselage. F-35 using its TVC did a couple of maneuvers usually reserved for Sukohi birds...much of the time, I saw F-35 being on burner. Next was SKAT...all 9 aircrafts took-off but I think one of them developed a snag and landed and the show was held with just 8 of them. They had a couple of new stunts and they were stunning. SKAT really wowed the crowd and there was a huge applause when they landed back. Between SKAT take off & they arriving in formation, LUH did a quick demo. After SKAT it was turn of F-16...in contrast to F-35, the F-16 only used it burners during high-speed climb, max 'g' turn. IAF's Rafale took to the skies but I preferred French Air Force's demo...IAF's show lacked aggressiveness that were apparent during previous Rafale displays. Last in the display was LCH...had take-offs & landings by HAWK-i & HTT-40. Missing was B-1B flyover & Su-30MKI. I think at least the Su show might be held tomorrow but somehow a show without Su-30 (feeling the thunder of twin AL-31 motors) leaves a small void. Anyways, wish we had more aircraft participation...no Sitara, no Globemaster & Su-57 would have been nice. During AI-2019, even A330NEO had a flying demo...I would have thought Airbus or Boeing sending either A350 or 777-8/9 since we recently placed 500 count order with them companies.

This comes up during each AI (at least for the last few of them) but I heard that there is a strong pressure to shift the venue from Bangalore to a more "favourable" location for next AI...
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by Vips »

Aero India witnesses 266 partnerships having potential to unlock business worth around Rs 80,000 crore.

As many as 266 partnerships including 201 MoUs, 53 major announcements and nine product launches were firmed up at the Aero India that could unlock business potentials worth around Rs 80,000 crore. The MoUs included one between Hindustan Aeronautics and Safran Helicopter Engines of France for work share for formation of joint venture for design, development, manufacture and life time support of helicopter engines.

The agreements and the MoUs were formally signed at an event titled "Bandhan" ceremony that was attended by Defence Minister Rajnath Singh, top leaders of Indian defence industries and senior military officials.

"The Bandhan ceremony also witnessed the forging of 266 partnerships including 201 MoUs, 53 major announcements, nine product launches and three Transfers of Technology (ToT), worth around Rs 80,000 crore," the defence ministry said in a statement.

The Bharat Electronics Ltd and Aeronautical Development Agency also inked an MoU for the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA). The product launches at Aero India included the vertically launched short range surface-to-air missile (Bharat Dynamics Ltd)

It is a next-generation, ship-based, all-weather, air defence weapon which can be used by the Navy as a quick reaction defence against supersonic sea skimming targets such as aircraft and Unmanned Aerial Vehicles.

The missile has a smokeless propulsion system with all-weather capability. It has a highly agile configuration with state-of-the-art electronic counter-measures features.

Another significant product launch was of the semi-active laser seeker based anti-tank guided missile developed by Bharat Dynamics Limited. The missile weighs 23 kgs with the launch tube, and can be used in different kinds of terrains to incapacitate moving and stationary targets such as tanks and infantry combat vehicles.

The 14th edition of Aero India at the Yelahanka Air Force station complex on the outskirts of Bengaluru was inaugurated by Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Monday and it saw participation of over 700 defence firms and representatives of around 100 countries.

The defence minister said that Aero India showcased to the world the 'New Defence Sector' of 'New India', which has not only grown in the last few years, but is now fully ready to walk alongside the defence sectors of leading countries.

He expressed satisfaction that the event paved the way to strengthen the Indian defence industry, terming it as the beginning of a new era of 'aatmanirbharta'.

The minister exuded confidence that the sector will move forward strongly on the path of progress with new energy and determination.

The MoUs and technology transfer agreements signed during Aero India will facilitate a new beginning for defence manufacturing in India, Singh said.
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by Rakesh »

Aero India 2023 | Aviation Wall | Director's Cut

ramana
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by ramana »

Cyrano wrote:Any news on SARAS - II ?
Its redesigned and renamed.

It is now called Hansa-3. And pusher configuration is changed to a normal turboprop.
Still run by ADA.

It is a sad reflection that with all that brain power they botched up the design and worse the years.
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by YashG »

ramana wrote:six (6) Ex-Air India planes being converted to AWAC etc.

https://twitter.com/VivekSi85847001/sta ... -NpQfh_SHA

This is forum special.
Netra Mk1 x 3 is on ERJ 145
Netra Mk2 x 3 is on Airbus 319

both different airframes and only 3, both will require separate logistics chain but each chain will server just 3 units!

In wartime any shortage or even lack of specific personnel or even just availability of a SKU at a forward repair base will ground the jet for sometime.
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by Prasad »

Those aren't the numbers I heard.
Please do watch this -

Last edited by Prasad on 16 Feb 2023 00:49, edited 1 time in total.
hgupta
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by hgupta »

YashG wrote:
ramana wrote:six (6) Ex-Air India planes being converted to AWAC etc.

https://twitter.com/VivekSi85847001/sta ... -NpQfh_SHA

This is forum special.
Netra Mk1 x 3 is on ERJ 145
Netra Mk2 x 3 is on Airbus 319

both different airframes and only 3, both will require separate logistics chain but each chain will server just 3 units!

In wartime any shortage or even lack of specific personnel or even just availability of a SKU at a forward repair base will ground the jet for sometime.
India needs at least 18 Netra Mk2 platforms to have all around all year all day capability.
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by ramana »

Zynda, Thanks for the write-up. Felt like we were there with you!!!
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by ramana »

TEDBF update

"This is what I was waiting for. Much refined design of TEDBF. This is looking really good.
Nose cone changed, DSI intake look much better now. Clearly RAFALE+AMCA domination in design."

https://twitter.com/Kuntal__biswas/stat ... WoEuvHe6Xw

Image
ramana
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by ramana »

Folks lots of tweets. The least we can do is capture them here.

Only Rakesh is doing that.

It's a Forum and not a bulletin board.
That means active participation and not just sipping the threads.
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by ramana »

Munitions India ltd products range:

https://twitter.com/DefenceReach/status ... WoEuvHe6Xw

Sample:

Image

Image
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by ramana »

TBRL, Chandigarh displays three products

https://twitter.com/DefenceReach/status ... 67744?s=20

Sample:
NASAM Note the multiple EFP generated. Similar to Kormoran Warhead by MBB, Germany

Image

LRGB Tandem Warhead Means this is for hard target penetration
Bye, Bye Rutog

Image

Most significant is the fuze system for air-delivered bombs. Earlier IAF sued to get Russian versions.
Since this is TBRL its reliability will be in the high 90s.

Image


See the inset diagram. The nose plug initiates(probably a piezo-electric signal generator) the precursor charge and the follow-through warhead in the tail or aft. That means this is a precision fuze with timing delays. An example of MUNITRONICS.
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by ramana »

Laser-guided rockets for helicopters? Basically new front end with a sensor and fins.
Good if BDL acquires the technology.

https://twitter.com/ReviewVayu/status/1 ... 33922?s=20

Image
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by ramana »

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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by ramana »

Atmavik
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by Atmavik »

https://twitter.com/GODOFPARADOXES/stat ... 4965687297

GPS guidence kit for 155 mm shell by Zeus Numerix
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by Atmavik »

Desi orders so far

1. 15 C 295 for maritime role IN & ICG ( expected but news is now confirmed)

2. 9 ALH mk 3 for ICG , ICG wants to replace all 20 with ALH . Not sure if they will order 20 ALH

3. 50 LCA mk 1
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by Cybaru »

Prasad wrote:Those aren't the numbers I heard.
Please do watch this -
Great stuff, as always, Prasad!

Do you have any videos on the engine front? What will the 8 GTRE engines that Godrej is going to manufacture be used for? Is any airborne engine testing platform planned?
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by Atmavik »

SRajesh
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by SRajesh »

Any videos of 'Paintees Bijli' wowing the crowds
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by Prem Kumar »

https://swarajyamag.com/defence/aero-in ... riservices

BEL-IAI tie up to build LORA missile. Hope this doesn't threaten the Pralay induction

Specs of LORA are impressive:

Mass: 1.6 tons
Length: 5.2 meters
Warhead: 570 Kgs
Range: 90 - 430 Kms

Pralay:
Mass: 5 tons
Warhead: 500 - 1000 Kgs
Range: 150 - 500 Kms

Granted that Pralay can lob a 1000 Kg warhead to 500 Kms, but the total weight of LORA is mighty impressive. How does it weigh 1.6 tons, with a 500 Kgs warhead that it can shoot out to 430 Kms!

Either they are overstating something (maybe 570Kgs is for a 90 Km range) or we are understating Pralay's range (which we have a track-record of doing). For reference, Pralay's specs are in-line with Dongfeng-12 and Isklander. LORA seems to be an outlier - have the Israelis made any breakthrough in fuel & propulsion tech?
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by Kartik »

Prasad wrote:Those aren't the numbers I heard.
Please do watch this -
Excellent!

Take-aways:

1. IAF is looking for 6 more Netra Mk1 AEW&C on (possibly) used EMB-145 platform. They want them as soon as possible given that they're battle proven and can be fielded in a quick time frame. One key difference is that they will use GaN T/R modules instead of the existing GaAs T/R modules of the 3 EMB-145 based Netra Mk1

2. 6 ex-Air India A321 airframes that were handed over to DRDO for the next generation AEW&C program (called Netra Mk2) will also have an indigenous GaN T/R module based S band AESA radar on a larger balance beam, similar to the one on the Netra Mk1

3. CABS (Center for Airborne Systems) will also build 3 COMJAM systems on ex-Air India A319 airframes

4. One ex-Air India A320 based Flying Test Bed for testing all the systems

5. Netra Mk2s will be ready in 2 years' time, followed by 2 each every 2 years.
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by Kartik »

Rustom I (SRUAV-W) undergoing weapons trials using HELINA and MPATGM and 2 other missiles that aren't revealed.

Aero India 2023- India's SRUAV-W conducting weapons trials
India's Short-Range Unmanned Aerial Vehicle-Weaponised (SRUAV-W) is conducting weapon trials.

Based on the Rustom I short-range (tactical) surveillance vehicle, the SRUAV-W is being developed as a short-range unmanned combat aerial vehicle (UCAV).

A project member with India's Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE) told Janes that the UCAV's weapons trials are being conducted using four types of air-to-surface missiles. The ADE is a lab of the Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO). The official spoke to Janes during the Aero India 2023 show, which is being held in Bangalore from 13 to 17 February.

According to the ADE project official, the weapons include the Helina anti-tank missile and the Bharat Dynamics Limited (BDL) Man Portable Anti-Tank Guided Missile (MPATGM). The ADE official said that the third munition being integrated with the UCAV is an anti-personnel missile. The official did not give details about the anti-personnel missile or the fourth missile being used in the trials.

...
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by Kartik »

IAF to receive 100 ALS-50 loitering munitions from TASL. Hopefully thousands of such loitering munitions will be ordered eventually.

Aero India 2023- IAF to receive 100 loitering munitions from TASL
Tata Advanced Systems Limited (TASL) is delivering 100 units of its Advanced Loitering System-50 (ALS-50) to the Indian Air Force (IAF), sources familiar with the matter told Janes at the Aero India 2023 show being held in Bangalore from 13 to 17 February.

The deliveries are expected to be completed by the end of this year, the sources said.

ALS-50 is a vertical take-off and landing (VTOL) unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) that has a length of 2.4 m, a wingspan of 3.8 m, and a maximum takeoff weight of 50 kg.

It has a cruise speed of 100 km/h, an endurance of more than 1 hour, and a range of more than 50 km, the sources added.

The UAV can carry a range of anti-personnel and anti-armour warheads weighing up to 6 kg including explosively formed penetrator (EFP), the sources said.

The ASL-50 model displayed at Aero India 2023 features a rectangular fuselage with rounded edges, shoulder-mounted straight wings, and a conventional tail configuration with an additional ventral tail.

..
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by Kartik »

Tata Airbus factory at Vadodara for the C-295 will be ready by 2024.

link
Tata Air Systems Limited (TASL) and Airbus Defence and Space are aiming to complete a new factory in India to produce Airbus C295 Persuader transport aircraft by 2024.

Speaking to Janes at the Aero India 2023 show in Bangalore, TASL said that the factory is expected to produce the first airworthy Indian-made C295 by 2026. The factory, at Vadodara in the Indian state of Gujarat, will serve as a final assembly line (FAL).

The foundation stone for the factory was laid in October 2022. The company said that it expects to produce up to eight C295s annually at the facility. In the meantime, Janes has learnt that TASL is attempting to scale up the capabilities of its domestic manufacturing partners.

As many as 100 micro, small, and medium enterprises (MSMEs) will participate in the manufacturing project, according to a statement by India's Prime Minister Narendra Modi in October 2022.

..
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by putnanja »

Kartik wrote: Excellent!

Take-aways:

1. IAF is looking for 6 more Netra Mk1 AEW&C on (possibly) used EMB-145 platform. They want them as soon as possible given that they're battle proven and can be fielded in a quick time frame. One key difference is that they will use GaN T/R modules instead of the existing GaAs T/R modules of the 3 EMB-145 based Netra Mk1
Thanks for capturing the takeaways!

There are lots of EMB-145s/EMB-175s in the 2nd hand market. Wonder if IAF is looking at new build machines or lightly-used ones. Either India will have to purchase the aircraft and then give them to Embraer to make the structural modifications or have an agreement with Embraer similar to the previous one for new build aircrafts. Was the AoN approved for it? Hearing this for the first time, and they want it soon. Wonder when the process starts.

Also, if they replace the existing antenna modules with GaN T/R modules, they need time to test it out. Any info on whether this is already underway? What is the expected improvement by moving to GaN modules?
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by fanne »

they have the current third EMB for testing out all new Techs. That plane is with DRDO I guess.
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by Prem Kumar »

Kartik wrote:Rustom I (SRUAV-W) undergoing weapons trials using HELINA and MPATGM and 2 other missiles that aren't revealed.

Aero India 2023- India's SRUAV-W conducting weapons trials
Great news! Hope 1 of the missiles is the CLGM. We have been very lax on that front - we need and can produce 1000s of cheap, laser-guided munitions that can be launched from Rustoms, Rudras & Prachands. CLGM is already tested, but restricting its use to just Arjun doesn't justify its potential
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by Prem Kumar »

Kartik wrote: Excellent!

Take-aways:

1. IAF is looking for 6 more Netra Mk1 AEW&C on (possibly) used EMB-145 platform. They want them as soon as possible given that they're battle proven and can be fielded in a quick time frame. One key difference is that they will use GaN T/R modules instead of the existing GaAs T/R modules of the 3 EMB-145 based Netra Mk1
Thanks Prasad and Kartik!

As with the follow-on order of Scorpenes, follow-on order of Tejas-Mk1a & follow-on order of Vikrant, here is one more example of applying common-sense when all else has failed!

In all these cases, one has to stand back in awe at the brilliance of letting production lines go idle, force-levels decrease, talent go waste & costs escalate - only to belatedly realize that which was obvious to any casual watcher years ago
Last edited by Prem Kumar on 16 Feb 2023 21:14, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by putnanja »

fanne wrote:they have the current third EMB for testing out all new Techs. That plane is with DRDO I guess.
If I recall right, the third EMB-145 was also handed over to IAF, though initially DRDO had kept it as flying testbed
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by Vips »

Aero India 2023: Republic Speaks To Project Director Of AMCA Krishna Rajendra

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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/Kuntal__biswas/stat ... 41797?s=20 ---> A-321 based Netra Mk-2 vs ERJ 145 based Netra mk-1. Notice the difference in antenna size! Expect almost 2x increase in TRM count.

Image
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by Rakesh »

Rakesh wrote:
ramana wrote:six (6) Ex-Air India planes being converted to AWACS etc.

https://twitter.com/VivekSi85847001/sta ... -NpQfh_SHA

This is forum special.
Disappointment over this news. I thought it was going to be six AWACS aircraft, but now it is three Netra Mk2s and 2 SIGNIT/COMJAM and one FTB. I hope they eventually convert that FTB into a fourth AWACS. The IAF is woefully short on AWACS ---> 3 Phalcons + 2 Netra Mk1s. The Phalcons are reportedly having significant downtime, due to the IL-76 platform.
Update to this Ramana-ji. Good news.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/162 ... 54849?s=20 ---> To be clear:

*Six units of AEW&C MKII developed by CABS will implemented on an equal number of A-321s.

*3 x COMJAM systems will be implemented using A-319s.

*A follow on order of 6 x EMB-145I based AEW&C MK1 is also under consideration. This MK1 is a descendant of the Netra.
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by arshyam »

Zynda wrote: arshyam, doc shiv was usually the organizer, host & coordinator for meet-ups, but since he is no longer part of BRF...I reckon he ain't that interested these days as well. I think JayS is skipping AI this time....
We (Doc Shiv and myself) are still trying to get a meet organized. For Fri evening. If interested, please email me at my handle at yahoo dat kaam with your BRF handle. The location will be in central Bangalore, near lalbagh.
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Re: Aero India 2023

Post by YashG »

putnanja wrote: There are lots of EMB-145s/EMB-175s in the 2nd hand market. Wonder if IAF is looking at new build machines or lightly-used ones.
AEWs are much needed and its good to hear the sense of urgency. But Will we o for 2nd hand or new ones - depends upon where MoD babus can make more commissions.
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