Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 13 Feb 2023 20:31

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/162 ... S5ukcSoURw ---> Image depicts mock fitment of DRDO's next generation explosive reactive armor on a T-72 main battle tank.

https://twitter.com/Tochka21/status/162 ... S5ukcSoURw ---> ERA Mark 2 of DRDO.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/162 ... S5ukcSoURw ---> No. It is NGERA. Outwardly ERA MK2 and NGERA will look similar because the exterior dimensions of the panels are the same.

https://twitter.com/MacaulaysMonkey/sta ... S5ukcSoURw ---> NGERA details with some performance info.

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 19 Feb 2023 20:18

Anoop · Post by **Anoop** » 05 Mar 2023 22:00

Interview with Lt. Gen KJ Singh (R), of the Armd Corps. Interesting tidbits:

0. Russian philosophy of building on existing chassis.

1. An advantage of an autoloader in IA service- height restriction of the loader is removed.

2. The life cycle of a tank, as it moves from front line service to HQ to training to logistic units.

3. Role of the envisioned light tank Zorawar as a part of a combined unit.

4. Admitting the IA's role in scope creep of the Arjun.

5. Lack of dispersion in Russian tank employment in Ukraine.

6. How the IA gunners used the 3 round triangulation technique in 1965 to good effect.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Mar 2023 08:05

Arjun Tank Story

https://t.co/PCuFff71Dj

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 17 Mar 2023 14:19

ramana wrote:Arjun Tank Story

https://t.co/PCuFff71Dj

After a lapse of 20 years when I sit and reflect on this very ambitious National Project, which Destiny had very benevolently given me a chance to mastermind, only sorrow and disappointments are the emotions that resurface. - Lt Gen Ajai Singh

That hit hard

But the time will come. One day indigenously developed Tanks will break through the obstacles of our acquisitions policies. The import lobbies can delay but they won't be able to stop it from happening eventually.

May it come soon

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 17 Mar 2023 18:08

Manish_P wrote:
ramana wrote:Arjun Tank Story

https://t.co/PCuFff71Dj

After a lapse of 20 years when I sit and reflect on this very ambitious National Project, which Destiny had very benevolently given me a chance to mastermind, only sorrow and disappointments are the emotions that resurface. - Lt Gen Ajai Singh

That hit hard

But the time will come. One day indigenously developed Tanks will break through the obstacles of our acquisitions policies. The import lobbies can delay but they won't be able to stop it from happening eventually.

May it come soon

Nothing is guaranteed.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 19 Mar 2023 05:05

https://salute.co.in/the-arjun-tank-saga/
“Gen I am informed that you are handling the Tank project for India if so, let me give you some advice from my experience of making our MARKAVA Tank. Never attempt to make a PERFECT TANK. If you aspire to do that, you will only lose TIME, MONEY and SELF CONFIDENCE. As long as the first model can move, run and fire, it is good enough. That first model will give you not only KNOW HOW and CONFIDENCE but will become the PLATFORM for further updates as EXCELLENCE and TECHNICAL ADVANCEShave NO BOUNDS”

When these private enterprises were beaming with confidence and enthusiasm, to my utter shock and disappointment the ‘Penny dropped’!When the first lot of 129 tanks ordered by the Army, they were farmed out to HVF AVADI, leaving the expecting private sector nominated players shocked, disappointed cheated and thoroughly dejected, as on my tacit assurance they had made a considerable financial investment to recast a special production line for tank manufacture, as it was entirely a new ball game for them.

This was a great emotional shock to me because I felt that my patriotism and credibility has been smeared. In fact, I could neither face the private industrial friends that I had cultivated in the course of this venture, nor my user colleagues, nor those Arjun team members who had placed such implicit faith and trust in my leadership. The shock was so intense, that I not only abandoned the Arjun Project, but was taken very seriously ill and reached a critical state of survival in the hospital.

After a lapse of 20 years when I sit and reflect on this very ambitious National Project, which Destiny had very benevolently given me a chance to mastermind, only sorrow and disappointments are the emotions that resurface.

Of course, from the latest reports that I am hearing, about how the ARJUN outclassed T-90 in technical performance trials (which I had never had any apprehensions about), and the launching of the New Marks of ARJUN, by incorporating latest technical updates as also designing its variants like ARVs, Dozers and Trawls, does cheer me up, but only partially? WHY? Because from what I have just learnt that ‘MY LIFE LONG AMBITION OF MAKING OUR COUNTRY SELF RELIANT IN ARMS PRODUCTION IS STILL A FAR CRY, AS THE GOVERNMENT STILL REMAINS COCOONED IN GOVT ENTERPRISES WITHOUT HAVING FAITH IN PRIVATE SECTOR TO GET FULLY INTERGATED INTO DEFENCE PRODUCTION. THAT SORROW I STILL DEEPLY HARBOUR, BUT WITH THE OPTIMISM, THAT SOMEONE WITH VISION, WILL UNDERSTAND THE SERIOUS FALLOUTS OF THIS SUBJECTIVE POLICY ON OUR NATIONAL SECURITY.

ashthor · Post by **ashthor** » 19 Mar 2023 17:35

Sunset view with Arjun

https://twitter.com/Duorope/status/1637412649540648961

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 21 Mar 2023 08:01

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85vXC75Epa4

Indian Army sends massive fleet of 159 Vehicles including Kalyani M4 & BMP-2 for UN Peacekeeping

Nikhil_Naya · Post by **Nikhil_Naya** » 21 Mar 2023 13:43

Paanwallah told chaiwallah. I met the chaiwallah over a cup of coffee and he mentioned that TASL might get orders for a good number of WhAP (Modified) soon. They have performed really well in the deployment - the orders could be for 3 regiments at this time and replace the oldest of the Saraths.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 22 Mar 2023 20:21

DRDO’s FICV : Gas Pedal Pressed
https://alphadefense.in/ficv/
21 March 2023

mody · Post by **mody** » 23 Mar 2023 17:45

Any news on the ongoing testing of the Bharat Powerpack 1,500HP engine? The Arjun MK1A production will only happen with the new indigenous engine.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 23 Mar 2023 18:05

I thought Arjun Mk1A uses a 1400 HP Engine, the 1500 HP engine is for the Arjun MK2

Kersi · Post by **Kersi** » 23 Mar 2023 20:45

Nikhil_Naya wrote:Paanwallah told chaiwallah. I met the chaiwallah over a cup of coffee and he mentioned that TASL might get orders for a good number of WhAP (Modified) soon. They have performed really well in the deployment - the orders could be for 3 regiments at this time and replace the oldest of the Saraths.

So how many vehicles ?

Nikhil_Naya · Post by **Nikhil_Naya** » 25 Mar 2023 14:56

Kersi wrote:
Nikhil_Naya wrote:Paanwallah told chaiwallah. I met the chaiwallah over a cup of coffee and he mentioned that TASL might get orders for a good number of WhAP (Modified) soon. They have performed really well in the deployment - the orders could be for 3 regiments at this time and replace the oldest of the Saraths.
So how many vehicles ?

About 150-200? (I believe one regiment has 50-70 vehicles)

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 31 Mar 2023 08:50

The only thing I find jarring with the WhaP is the "redesigned" drivers cupola.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 07 Apr 2023 07:42

Found an interesting video on youtube. This one is from Major Gaurav Arya talking about his days in Army. He had just finished OTA Madras training and was asked to join 17 Kumaon in Suratgarh RJ. The unit was in training at Mahajan field firing range. This is 1994 and he was tasked to go to South and East camps to secure permissions for unit to perform grenade firing exercise. So he takes a jonga with a JCO and two more men to head to those camps. He sees this long road in desert and asks JCO what is this road. JCO says sahab this is "Arjun Path" so Major Arya is confused who named a road after Mahabharat hero, so he asks JcO and he says the road is called that because of Arjun tank which was performing trials there. While later Major Arya sees a tank in distance and asks jCO for binoculars and sees a tank cruising like Maruti 800 and was in awe how the tank was cruising like the best car of that era in the hot sands of Rajastan, JCO looked through binoculars and confirmed Sir this is indeed Arjun.

Please see video below to hear it in his own words from 9:20 - 10:30 From this story it is clear that the boots on ground knew how good Arjun was and this was before Mk1A was created

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 10 Apr 2023 18:02

From a retired Armoured Corps officer.

https://twitter.com/rathorekaran17/stat ... 36034?s=20 ---> The proposed induction of the Leopard tank is a cause of worry to Russia. Just imagine a program to induct 500 MBT Arjun Mk1As would have done to our adversaries. It would have also placed our future armoured vehicle programs on an even keel. What have we done!!!

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 10 Apr 2023 18:05

Posts like this are rubbing salt on our wounds.

SRajesh · Post by **SRajesh** » 10 Apr 2023 22:13

Rakesh wrote:From a retired Armoured Corps officer.

https://twitter.com/rathorekaran17/stat ... 36034?s=20 --->

One of three Cardinal Sins of the Armed Forces+Baboos+Political Bosses:
1.Arjun Saga
2.MMRCA nonsense
3.Not ordering at least one or more of the Vikrant class

(with the lift fiasco)

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 11 Apr 2023 08:12

Plus the entire Project 75 and other sub-related conduct.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 11 Apr 2023 13:19

Rakesh wrote:From a retired Armoured Corps officer.

https://twitter.com/rathorekaran17/stat ... 36034?s=20 ---> The proposed induction of the Leopard tank is a cause of worry to Russia. Just imagine a program to induct 500 MBT Arjun Mk1As would have done to our adversaries. It would have also placed our future armoured vehicle programs on an even keel. What have we done!!!

There is a very deliberate, multi-decadal effort to ensure that India does not get overmatch vis-a-vis Pakistan. Its favorable to the West and China, of course. But there are many traitors in India who actively connive in this project. Buying gold-plated imports which we can only afford in small numbers + buying indigenous equipment also in small numbers, mean that we will always be in the trenches

That's why anyone opposing Atmanirbharta, is either knowingly or unwittingly playing into the hands of the Keep India tied down lobby

We need to have a breakout decade which will put us in a new orbit! Then we go into a virtuous spiral from then onwards

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 11 Apr 2023 23:56

Prem Kumar wrote:
Rakesh wrote:From a retired Armoured Corps officer.

https://twitter.com/rathorekaran17/stat ... 36034?s=20 ---> The proposed induction of the Leopard tank is a cause of worry to Russia. Just imagine a program to induct 500 MBT Arjun Mk1As would have done to our adversaries. It would have also placed our future armoured vehicle programs on an even keel. What have we done!!!
There is a very deliberate, multi-decadal effort to ensure that India does not get overmatch vis-a-vis Pakistan. Its favorable to the West and China, of course. But there are many traitors in India who actively connive in this project. Buying gold-plated imports which we can only afford in small numbers + buying indigenous equipment also in small numbers, mean that we will always be in the trenches

That's why anyone opposing Atmanirbharta, is either knowingly or unwittingly playing into the hands of the Keep India tied down lobby

We need to have a breakout decade which will put us in a new orbit! Then we go into a virtuous spiral from then onwards

When the people kick the civil services out and replace it with something better will you get your wish.

MeshaVishwas · Post by **MeshaVishwas** » 18 Apr 2023 22:48

Om Shanti to Gen Ajai Singh.
A pioneer and a force behind the MBT Arjun.
His article on the topic here:
THE ARJUN TANK SAGA

Dedicated thread is locked(link) so posting here.

His pride in the Arjun and his confidence reflected in this quote from 1993:

Lt-General Ajai Singh, director-general, combat vehicles, adds that Arjun will "rank with the US XM-1 in the bracket of top tanks in the world".

Troop trials follow Indian Army's decision to induct Arjun tanks, doubts persist over flaws

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 19 Apr 2023 08:50

MeshaVishwas wrote:Om Shanti to Gen Ajai Singh.
A pioneer and a force behind the MBT Arjun.
His article on the topic here:
THE ARJUN TANK SAGA

Dedicated thread is locked(link) so posting here.

His pride in the Arjun and his confidence reflected in this quote from 1993:
Lt-General Ajai Singh, director-general, combat vehicles, adds that Arjun will "rank with the US XM-1 in the bracket of top tanks in the world".
Troop trials follow Indian Army's decision to induct Arjun tanks, doubts persist over flaws

Collusion always wins if it goes unchecked. Sad tale indeed.

KSingh · Post by **KSingh** » 19 Apr 2023 23:22

RoyG wrote:
MeshaVishwas wrote:Om Shanti to Gen Ajai Singh.
A pioneer and a force behind the MBT Arjun.
His article on the topic here:
THE ARJUN TANK SAGA

Dedicated thread is locked(link) so posting here.

His pride in the Arjun and his confidence reflected in this quote from 1993:

Troop trials follow Indian Army's decision to induct Arjun tanks, doubts persist over flaws
Collusion always wins if it goes unchecked. Sad tale indeed.

Honestly too sad to fathom, Arjun deserved better. Even today it is not able to prove itself, the sabotage has successfully killed its image, any defence ‘expert’ will list it as one of the ‘worst’ tanks in the world

At the same time Leopard is considered one of the best and Russian T series are being obliterated by irregulars (Ukraine)

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 20 Apr 2023 17:52

KSingh wrote:
RoyG wrote:
Collusion always wins if it goes unchecked. Sad tale indeed.
Honestly too sad to fathom, Arjun deserved better. Even today it is not able to prove itself, the sabotage has successfully killed its image, any defence ‘expert’ will list it as one of the ‘worst’ tanks in the world

At the same time Leopard is considered one of the best and Russian T series are being obliterated by irregulars (Ukraine)

KSingh,

The fact that the new gov seems oblivious to what happened with armor or has any serious solution moving forward can only mean that the collusive entity of civil servants, army leadership, procurement, and foreign intelligence rules the roost. Hard to imagine that this has stayed confined to the military.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 25 Apr 2023 15:09

https://armyrecognition.com/defense_new ... _army.html

The final iteration of the Altay has been handed over to the Turkish army.

I recall that this program was beset with technical challenges most notably the non availability of both the German and Korean power pack. Yet the Turks persisted and finally the tank has been handed over with Korean power pack. But as more and more vehicles are procured. Turkish powerplant will be added to in-service vehicles as well.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 26 Apr 2023 05:20

It's not just the power pack.
The gun, autoloader, armour etc are all Korean.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 26 Apr 2023 08:41

It's not Korean.

Even though it uses Korean components. It's built to Turkish requirements. The tank is sufficiently different from South Korean tank. That it is it's own design.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 27 Apr 2023 06:22

Well to me the main components like the gun/turret/powerpack being Korean make it sufficiently Korean in IP.

But lets not nitpick.

But your point is well made and I completely agree that we should have persevered and we would have a great deal more IP today. The same story repeats itself in the small arms space. INSAS Mk 5 could have been something totally different.

MeshaVishwas · Post by **MeshaVishwas** » 16 May 2023 00:00

Not subscribed so can't read in full, but after I saw #11 on the infographic, I realised that this article will contain a lot of equine manure.

Parting shot: Arjun Mk 1A main battle tank- Kapil Kajal/Janes

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 19 May 2023 19:22

https://twitter.com/rathorekaran17/stat ... 72224?s=20 ---> New avatar of Leopard 2. So you make a platform and continue to improve on it as per technology. Look at us we have an excellent platform in MBT Arjun and have been poodle faking with this and that minor issues. As if we are the only ones who know tanks. Total lack of vision.

Tweet above is in response to the tweet below. Author of tweet above is a Veteran Cavalry Brigadier from The Poona Horse.

https://twitter.com/nicholadrummond/sta ... 85569?s=20 ---> There’s been much speculation about what features the new Leopard 2A8 will have. The Euro-MBT shown at Eurosatory last year provides some clues. Expect a new turret with autoloader, deletion of hull ammo storage, APS, counter-UAS weapon, and the ability to control a UGV wingman.

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 19 May 2023 20:42

DRDO light tank 'Zorawar' to be ready for trials by year-end along China border.

The light tank Zorawar being jointly developed jointly by the DRDO and private sector firm L&T is expected to be ready for trials in the high-altitude mountainous border with China by the end of this year.

"The tank is expected to be ready for trials by the end of this year and would be immediately sent to the Ladakh sector for our own trials. Once we are ready, we will hand it over to the Army for user trials," senior DRDO officials told ANI.

"The present order is for 59 of these tanks but the order can go up to 600 tanks. There is also a need being felt for using these tanks for operations in the Rann of Kutch area and the desert terrain where they can travel at high speeds," the officials added.

The need for the light tank was felt during the ongoing standoff with China in 2020 when the People's Liberation Army showed up along the Line of Actual Control with their light tanks which can travel and manoeuvre faster than the conventional tanks.

The tank has been named after the legendary General Zorawar Singh who led multiple successful victories in Tibet The tank has been named after the legendary General Zorawar Singh who led multiple successful victories in Tibet which is now controlled by the Chinese Army.

After the standoff started, the Indian Army had to induct a considerable number of T-72 and T-90 tanks in operational areas, gaining tactical surprise over the adversary and thereby forcing the adversary on a back foot

vimal · Post by **vimal** » 21 May 2023 12:24

^^ feel bad for DRDO and L&T.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 23 May 2023 15:50

One of the defence you tube channel is reporting that Indian Army is going to procure 590 FRCV in phase one of the program.

It is also saying that the Max weight of the vehicle should be 57.5 tons.

But I need help locating this document online. As the latest document I am able to locate was published in May 2021. Where the requirement was for a medium weight tank.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 23 May 2023 18:00

Are you referring to the RFI for the FICV (tracked) from June 2021? Or another platform..

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 23 May 2023 18:52

FRCV is the next generation battle tank.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 30 May 2023 08:53

I watched this program yesterday. I was struck with the thought that this could be an ideal vehicle for the deployment of Nag missile.

The company also has a larger 12 ton UGV (TYPE X) under development. Perhaps that can be fitted with a uncrewed 105 mm howitzer turret and an auto loader with 18 rounds. With another vehicle acting as a resupply vehicle.

Or that vehicle( TYPE X) it self can be used as a resupply vehicle for the K9 with 40 rounds and reloads.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 31 May 2023 08:34

Pratyush ji, Muntra (unmanned BMP2) was prototyped a decade back. Surely there's far more superior and cost effective platform available than the above.