Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 21 Jun 2023 00:50

This conflict will come to an end as all conflicts must. Longer term after it ends, I will not be surprised if the West hands over long range rocket guidance and engine know how to what remains of Ukraine in violation of MTCR. In fact let’s not be surprised if Ukraine goes nuclear either. After all the West will claim it already has nuclear weapons so it is justified…

The West will then have the gall to celebrate it as an organic development of Ukraine. Already there are reports that Ukraine has “allocated funds” for rocket development.

YashG · Post by **YashG** » 21 Jun 2023 15:36

IndraD wrote:Military briefing: Russian ‘Alligators’ menace Ukraine’s counteroffensive
https://www.ft.com/content/d8fe8941-370 ... b9ba500481

https://archive.ph/dTOsg

thanks Lisa saar

Why not Mi8s also ?
Russian inventory of Ka52 is limited while Mi8s is very large. if Mi8s armed could play a role - they are far too many and sortie rates would saturate ukrainian frontline equipment.

Additionally how do ukraine keep their equipment safe in staging areas since russia has local air superiority now ? Arent russian forces able to also destroy equipment that is being assembled in forward staging areas ? (Im assuming assets are assembled well out of visual confirmation and at multiple locations, underground maybe)

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 21 Jun 2023 16:05

How many F-16s is Ukraine getting? More importantly how many pilots?

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 21 Jun 2023 18:36

YashG wrote:
IndraD wrote:Military briefing: Russian ‘Alligators’ menace Ukraine’s counteroffensive
https://www.ft.com/content/d8fe8941-370 ... b9ba500481

https://archive.ph/dTOsg

thanks Lisa saar
Why not Mi8s also ?
Russian inventory of Ka52 is limited while Mi8s is very large. if Mi8s armed could play a role - they are far too many and sortie rates would saturate ukrainian frontline equipment.

Pre war Russia had about 180 Ka-52 and lost close to 40 (probably an equal number damaged at any time). Production was 10 a year.
There are however 200+ Mi-28 attack helicopters (20 lost) which are also being used and 300+ older Mi-24 attack helicopters.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 22 Jun 2023 13:28

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe ... me=twitter

Ukr strikes bridge to Crimea from Kherson usinf UK missile

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 23 Jun 2023 00:32

U.S. Gives Ukraine Weapons System for Shooting Down Drones: VAMPIRE

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/what- ... i-AA116Bfe

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 23 Jun 2023 01:10

What was that song from Queen again?

Another one bites the dust....

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 23 Jun 2023 01:24

Z asks world to scramble as he has intelligence that Russia is going to blow ZZNP nuclear plant
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/22771335/ ... orizhzhia/

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 23 Jun 2023 02:37

Zelensky is saying that he plans to do something stupid on zznp.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 23 Jun 2023 04:32

Learned something interesting. Kyiv post is owned by a pakee .

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 23 Jun 2023 16:26

Why would Russia do anything to ZNPP? They built it, the fallout will affect the oblasts they occupy forcing them to evacuate. Z is desperately trying to stay in the news.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 23 Jun 2023 16:40

No he is not.

There is a method to his madness.

1) similar comments were made before Nord stream destruction.

2) Similar statement was made about the dam, before it was blown up.

Now this comment.

Parasu · Post by **Parasu** » 23 Jun 2023 17:30

Two US nuts (Blumenthal and Lindsey Graham) have proposed some bill which would make it mandatory for NATO to intervene in Ukraine if there is some nuclear incident.
That's what Zelensky is doing.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... tml?page=4

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 23 Jun 2023 19:36

You guys are right. There is more to it than meets the eye. We can't discount what evil Z can be made to do by evil guys behind.

Anoop · Post by **Anoop** » 23 Jun 2023 23:45

Interesting discussion with an Austrian Colonel covering:

1. Advantage for the Russians when they force Ukraine into positional warfare vs allowing them mobility.
2. Operational pause needed due to attrition to the committed brigades, especially since each tank battalion is understrength at around 35 tanks.
3. Revised Ukrainian objectives to isolate Russian troops into two pockets - Luhansk/Donetsk and in Crimea.
4. Lack of Ukrainian air support for their offensive.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 24 Jun 2023 01:47

If this Austrian colonel truly believes Ukr can win or even hold for few more months, he would be taking off his patches and join the AFU, like he himself advised in a public meeting a couple of months ago...

Avarachan · Post by **Avarachan** » 24 Jun 2023 06:43

To the extent that there was a missile strike on a Wagner base, I'm hearing that the British were involved. I wouldn't be surprised if that were true: it would be a classic British divide-and-conquer move.

Wagner's Prigozhin is blaming Russia's Ministry of Defense for the strike, but they are saying they had nothing to do with it. The Russian government is now accusing Prigozhin of "incitement to armed rebellion" for his statements against Russia's military leaders.

YashG · Post by **YashG** » 24 Jun 2023 07:06

Prigozhin episode has brought turf wars in Moscow into open.

There are many players here than meet the eye. Actually this internecine war is what Washington intends.

sanman · Post by **sanman** » 24 Jun 2023 11:14

What a ridiculously embarrassing situation for the Russian state.
How the hell can they have such unruly forces in their ranks?
They're practically looking like a 3rd-word country now, rather than one of the historic great powers of the past few centuries.
I'm stunned at this.

What the hell is wrong with Prighozin again? What's his gripe?

YashG · Post by **YashG** » 24 Jun 2023 11:18

Prigozhin wants more power and he is ready to play for it...he is negotiating. the moscow defence elite r not taking it. its a poker game now.

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 24 Jun 2023 11:52

NYT:

Yevgeny Prigozhin, the head of the mercenary Wagner group, claimed to have control of some of the buildings that form the military command in southern Russia in the city of Rostov-on-Don. Video verified by The New York Times shows that he had entered the facilities on Saturday morning.

In the videos, Mr. Prigozhin is seen in the company of dozens of armed men in the courtyard of the Southern Military District Headquarters, an important strategic command center in Russia’s war on Ukraine. Mr. Prigozhin said his forces would blockade the city and head for Moscow unless top Russian officials came to meet with them. Russian military and government officials didn’t immediately comment. It was not clear how much of the compound the Wagner forces controlled.

Additional videos circulating online and verified by The Times show dozens of soldiers getting out of military vehicles and pointing their guns at the compound. The videos were released hours after Mr. Prigozhin claimed Russia had attacked his forces in Ukraine, and said that he was bringing a column of troops to Russia in retaliation.

Mr. Prigozhin on Friday accused the Russian military of attacking his mercenary forces, escalating a long-running feud with the Russian military over the war in Ukraine. Russia’s prosecutor general announced hours later that Mr. Prigozhin was being investigated “on suspicion of organizing an armed rebellion.”

Since then, the scene that has unfolded in this city of more than one million people is tense and opaque; videos shared on Telegram show tanks driving down streets, soldiers jumping off trucks, and soldiers surrounding the headquarters. The soldiers are widely believed to be Wagner forces.

The Southern Military District is the smallest of Russia’s four regional military authorities, but it has played a critical role in the war. Units belonging to the command have fought in Zaporizhzhia and Donetsk Oblasts.

Contributing to the confusion emanating from Rostov-on-Don, civilian onlookers next to the military show of force seem to be unusually calm. In videos circulating online, some people can be seen smoking and drinking beer, and a street cleaner carries on with sweeping litter.

Quite astonishing.

rajkumar · Post by **rajkumar** » 24 Jun 2023 12:05

Where are tensions unfolding? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-e ... type=share via @BBCNews

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 24 Jun 2023 12:09

^^^
From the BBC link:

The mercenary boss who scored Russia its only significant success in months, at Bakhmut, has told the Russian people the whole pretext for the invasion was a lie, that the threat from Ukraine was invented.

dnivas · Post by **dnivas** » 24 Jun 2023 12:31

What a corrupt gangster. Doing this to Russia in the middle of a war. This is just like Barhka Dutt during kargil. To bring abt this level of confusion during the middle of a operation.

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 24 Jun 2023 13:13

^^^
Why should an organisation like this even exist. The only armed forces in a country need to be under direct control of the government. President Putin is reaping what he sowed. This guy may cut a deal with the CIA. Anything’s possible.

ricky_v · Post by **ricky_v** » 24 Jun 2023 13:16

putin's live pc, states clearly that this is a rebellion by prigozhin, will take strict action

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 24 Jun 2023 13:16

eklavya wrote:^^^
Why should an organisation like this even exist. The only armed forces in a country need to be under direct control of the government. President Putin is reaping what he sowed. This guy may cut a deal with the CIA. Anything’s possible.

Should Blackwater exist?

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 24 Jun 2023 14:31

Very unbelievable and bizzare turn of events.

dnivas · Post by **dnivas** » 24 Jun 2023 14:56

i mean we talk about how some of our people being desh drohis and rooting for the enemy, looks like RU has its own Barkhas / N Ram all rolled into one. Shameful what chaos this is causing to the country. Hope the people in these towns, ask the Wagner guys to get back to the business of fighting for their country instead of sowing chaos.
Also Putin needs to fugue out the whole Shoigu / Wagner bad blood situation.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 24 Jun 2023 15:18

NEWS UPDATE WAGNER UPRISING NOON JUNE 24
What has happened during the morning according to russian sources, see below. Firstly, what do we call Prigozhins action?

We can call it a mutiny or uprising . I prefer uprising ,since PMC Wagner has been outside the normal military command structure. They refuse to follow orders and threat en different parts of the government with violence, that's an uprising. Prigozhin himself probably see it as negotitiation tactics, but you don't negotiate internaly with weapons, especially during war time.

The uprising of PMC Wagner, what is known now:

- Prigozhin is at the headquarters of the Southern Military District in Rostov. He stated that the city was blocked and demanded a meeting with Shoigu and the head of the General Staff, threatening to go to Moscow;

- The governor of the Rostov region urged inhabitants to refrain from traveling to the center of Rostov-on-Don and, if possible, not to leave their homes. Mass events have been canceled in the city. The schedule of urban transport will be temporarily changed;

- The authorities of the Voronezh region urged residents of the region to temporarily not use the M-4 Don federal highway. The governor of the region said that he was holding regular meetings with law enforcement agencies on the operational situation;

- Anti-terrorist measures aimed at strengthening security measures are being carried out in Moscow. Additional control has been introduced on the roads;

- Anti-terrorist measures are also being carried out in the Moscow region , additional checks are possible on roads in the south direction. Security measures have been strengthened, the situation is controlled by law enforcement agencies and the FSB;

- Security forces entered the Wagner Center PMC in St. Petersburg , presumably for searches (Fontanka reports). According to the publication, masked men also work near the Blagoveshchensky Bridge, where the hotel and restaurant are located, which are associated with Prigozhin;

- The authorities of the Lipetsk region announced the strengthening of security measures. Particular attention will be paid to critical infrastructure facilities. Local residents are advised not to travel south. https://twitter.com/MikaelValterss1/sta ... 84096?s=20

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 24 Jun 2023 15:20

first & foremost: Pirozin needs to be arrested.
in another news wagner seem to have shot down a AN26

Waiting for news from Deans sir

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 24 Jun 2023 15:44

Tanaji wrote:
eklavya wrote:^^^
Why should an organisation like this even exist. The only armed forces in a country need to be under direct control of the government. President Putin is reaping what he sowed. This guy may cut a deal with the CIA. Anything’s possible.
Should Blackwater exist?

Absolutely not. The only organisations authorised to used armed force in a war zone or for internal security purposes need to be under the direct control of the government. This is the very definition of government: the body which can legitimately use force.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 24 Jun 2023 15:48

COMMENT WAGNER UPRISING
instead of answering in the comment section, here are three answer.

Why call it a Wagner uprising, it's Prigozhin's uprising.
A: Yes it's Prigozhins uprising, but since the Wagner group have a strong corps spirit and loyality, created in Battle, they will follow their leader.

Q: What are Prigozhin's goal (if it's not an elaborate Maskirovka)?

A: Not to overthrow the government. More probably to avoid being forced to relinquishing control of PMC Wagner to Russian MoD. Without control of the Wagner group, Prigozhin losses much of his influence in Russian politics and society.

Q: Can it be a Maskirovka?

A: Yes, but if so, MoD has probably lost control of it and Prigozhin uses it to kill two birds with one stone. Both making an Maskirovka And retaining control of PMC Wagner. Russian authorities are probably nervous, since Prigozhin is a loose can on, so they are not sure how he could act.
https://twitter.com/MikaelValterss1/sta ... 27808?s=20

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 24 Jun 2023 15:49

Tanaji wrote:Should Blackwater exist?

only AQ & ISIS should exist under US

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 24 Jun 2023 15:50

President Putin is calling it treason, which is exactly what this is. I hope there aren’t any tactical nukes in the vicinity of what Wagner have captured.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 24 Jun 2023 15:52

JUST IN - 'The civil war has officially begun' - Wagner-linked Telegram

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 24 Jun 2023 16:47

What a stroke of luck(?) for baninansky!!

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 24 Jun 2023 16:54

good take by kim.dotcom
My view on the actions by Prigozhin and the Wagner Group in Russia:

This started as a power struggle between Prigozhin and Shoigu. In the beginning of the Special military operation Shoigu and his team made mistakes and Prigozhin became of strong critic of Shoigu.

Prigozhin then had success in Bakhmut with Wagner Group presenting himself as a better military leader than Shoigu. In my view Shoigu then provoked Prigozhin by limiting ammunition supplies to Bakhmut resulting in Wagner Group losses and a strong reaction from Prigozhin. Many of you have seen the video of Prigozhin attacking Shoigu and the Russian military leadership.

Ammunition deliveries were restored and victory in Bakhmut was achieved but the video outburst by Prigozhin was likely counterproductive for him because the Kremlin and senior political leaders in Moscow saw him as a loose cannon who can’t be trusted.

Prigozhin doubled down predicting a massive loss for the Russian military claiming that it was not ready for the Ukrainian counter-offensive. He claimed that the Russian troops are badly equipped and poorly managed by Shoigu. With the Russian military successfully repelling the Ukrainian counter-offensive Prigozhin had played himself into a corner and his time was running out because Shoigu and his Generals delivered a major victory for the Kremlin.

In my view the actions by Prigozhin are an act of desperation because he has lost the power struggle against Shoigu and is likely facing serious retaliation.

Western media claims this is an attempted coup against Putin. That’s nonsense. The popularity of Putin within Russia and in the non-western world has never been higher. However this war between Prigozhin and Shoigu is an unwelcome distraction for the Kremlin and the most likely outcome will be the arrest or termination of Prigozhin. https://twitter.com/KimDotcom/status/16 ... 21856?s=20

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 24 Jun 2023 17:27

The optics are terrible. Prigozhin definitely has supporters some of which are probably hidden in the elite circles. Putin is in a tough situation at this critical phase of the conflict. Most of Russia’s troops are in and around Ukraine. Wagner just won the toughest battle (Bakhmut) that Russia faced in recent times so they are very popular right now. To make matters worse, Prigozhin made the claim publicly that the Russian forces bombed the Wagner troops and now he has captured a military garrison. He has given full commitment in whatever agenda he has now and none of the stakeholders can come back from it. I smell coup attempt. This is sh*t you see in video games

.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 24 Jun 2023 19:21

NATO bots celebrating Pirozin on social media like role model, Bakhmut was nothing burger & Wagner deserves EU citizenship!