Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

[ramana]

But I really wonder with long-range BVR do we need the agility that is demanded due to Vietnam war experiences in dog fights?

[Pratyush]

But I really wonder with long-range BVR do we need the agility that is demanded due to Vietnam war experiences in dog fights?

The question can be rephrased in connection with the modern high off boresight CCM missiles as well.

The answer is, with the advent of modern BVR. Situational awareness, EW, low observability and agility are important in order to survive a BVR shot.

However, once merge happens, everyone dies equally, when both sides have modern CCM.

Think Abhinandan and his victory.

I don't remember what actually brought him down. But he killed the F16. Because he had modern BVR as well as modern CCM missiles and he was an experienced pilot.

[Rakesh]

Moved all posts (relating to 27 Feb 2019 dogfight) to this thread ---> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7699&start=4200

[fanne]

..

fanne sorry to be rude, but what goes your father?
The Mk2 was redesigned three times due to IAF demands. And to be really perfect it needs a 130KN engine.
It is mota lota way more powerful than the M2K.
Just because IAf has its press and DRDO does not, it doesn't mean we lose perspective.
Just to let you know IAF can do jack sh*t as it is they who keep adding requirements.
Their hope is by doing this they can get MRFA.
The CDR is over and that's the plane that is being built. So any improvements will be later.
And exceeding is unobtainium.
Hence PMO is running the project.

* Intakes are sent for wind tunnel testing.

Ramna ji, perhaps we are saying the same thing -
1. I am also saying that the problem is IAF with their ever changing goalpost, or un achievable goal and not signing off the req (CDR was done late, and from that we will take time to build the plane). I am speculating one step forward, they are perhaps providing no iron clad signature that they will accept the CDR approved plane and hence the delay. Your contention is that CDR is what they have approved, they will accept it.
2. If indeed the MK2 needs a 130k to be of optimal performance (setting up for failure), I don't know how it can perform with 98K engine? Does the CDR approved plane needs 130 KN or 98 KN is sufficient?
3.I am batting for DRDO, I think all big ticket items where the end user is going to change the req frequently, we should go with two step process, First step should be TD (Technology demonstrator)/PV (Prototype Vehicle). Use that to prove the core + most other technology. Let that be continuously funded out of MOD/DRDO/PMO budget and is not dependent on services whim and fancy. Of course it would be good if PV is as near to the series product, but does not have to be same. Let's see this with an example. LCA MK2 we knew was needed at least 7-8 years ago. We also knew we needed canards, more elongated body, Engine of F414 engines, Mirage 2000 weight category, internal EW systems, IRST etc etc. This fundamental have not changed (except of what you say maybe IAF wanted m2000*1.5 plane, that request was rejected). To develop these DRDO needs some 500 crore per plane (not 9000 crore for the whole program), as messily sum and if they started 7 years ago, by now with two airfarmes (1000 carore they would have double proved all the tech).
Navy is cooperating, for IAF and IA systems, we should go that route.

[Rakesh]

IAF’s Force Modernisation: Key Role of GE’s F414 Powered Tejas Variants
https://bharatshakti.in/iafs-force-mode ... -variants/
03 July 2023

[Rakesh]

FWIW....the 200 order number has come back, via an ADA official.

https://twitter.com/Sandy47928778/statu ... 18368?s=20 --->

[RoyG]

Critical as the Jaguars and MiG-29UPGs will be retiring, beginning 2025 onwards. Ideally the money for 114 needs to be reserved for technology development, more numbers, weapons and sensors. This is just a big corruption.

[hemant_sai]

My apology in advance for sudden negative post:)

Are we confident of bjp win in 2029?
If not then, it is certainly end game of mk2.
One thing is certain that mk2 orders are not going to be officially made before 2029.
In the absence of bjp, no power on earth can make it happen.

So in this thread may be we should also be discussing about next leader from bjp who can win 2029.
This is no way sarcastic but serious concern.

[Roop]

So in this thread may be we should also be discussing about next leader from bjp who can win 2029.

This is a crazy idea. The thread is for the Tejas Mk2 and you think we should turn it into a political slugfest about party politics?!!

[Pratyush]

No one can stop an idea who's time has come.

Indigenous defence equipment is an idea who's time has come.

After that point of time. It makes no difference who is in power.

The mk will be built in numbers in excess of 200. With similar numbers of mk1 in all its iterations.

[bharathp]

one way this could materialise is if the gravy train of phroen mall can be replaced by curry train of Indian maal.
if there is a strong enough lobby that also makes money by sales of indian maal, then we can ensure a lot of Indian maal is thus supplied.

we just need an IPL to wean off the folks from all the football leagues. will still be corrupt - but atleast will make more money for our own folks

[RoyG]

one way this could materialise is if the gravy train of phroen mall can be replaced by curry train of Indian maal.
if there is a strong enough lobby that also makes money by sales of indian maal, then we can ensure a lot of Indian maal is thus supplied.

we just need an IPL to wean off the folks from all the football leagues. will still be corrupt - but atleast will make more money for our own folks

Indian corporates don’t have any incentive in the current procurement environment besides license production of foreign weapons. Indias civil services don’t want to let go of r&d and production in any major way and def don't want an open and transparent tender and trial process. The reason being it will nullify its existence in this domain and end the gravy train.

[hemant_sai]

AMCA design was modified in 2020 for DSI intakes. Same was also included for TEDBF design.
For Tejas Mk2, we wanted to avoid delays as it was expected to start production as early as 2026. Now we are in 2023 and rollout itself is planned for 2024. But we are very reluctant to put parallel efforts for something like intake design. If they had started in 2020, don't you think even Tejas Mk2 would have been ready with DSI intake design? I would rather also look for scaled down design of TEDBF itself as Tejas Mk2.

One of my learning is that we should promote parallel design works even if design may not materialize due to time-constraints. But sitting on one design and then just getting into delays due to all kind of processes, funds and foreign dependencies and then starting a new design Alpha/Beta/Gamma after significant gap doesn't make any sense.

Design teams should be encouraged and given free hand for their creativity and continuous improvements.

[nachiket]

My apology in advance for sudden negative post:)

Are we confident of bjp win in 2029?
If not then, it is certainly end game of mk2.
One thing is certain that mk2 orders are not going to be officially made before 2029.
In the absence of bjp, no power on earth can make it happen.

So in this thread may be we should also be discussing about next leader from bjp who can win 2029.
This is no way sarcastic but serious concern.

There are threads in the Strat forum where politics is discussed. Please take this there. This is not the place for it.

[hemant_sai]

I was hoping for someone to give positive message that yes, mk2 orders will be placed well before 2029.
Sadly everyone seems to be of same opinion as mine.

Now I will be happy only when I will hear that mk1a numbers are going to be 200.

[hemant_sai]

Correction to wild dreamzzz...But still seems like a dream

If we are serious about Atmanirbharta in defence w.r.t. fighter planes and powerful enough to deter china,
IAF and GoI must plan for,
140 mk1A (7)
260 mk2 (13)
160 tedbf/orca (8) (Navy tedbf not included)
140 amca (7)
====
OR
====
140 mk1A (7) (2024-2030)
320 mk2 (16) (2030-2045)
120 tedbf/orca (6) (2035-2045) (Navy tedbf not included)
120 amca (6) (2035-2045)

This is more realistic and CAPEX/OPEX wise far better.
All fighters except mk1A that will be produced from 2035 onwards must use India owned JV engine instead of GE 414.
So let's hope ADA and HAL will collaborate with GTRE with common goals.
====================================================================
At least 35 sqdns (18 per sqd + 2 spare = 700) indigenous fighters by 2040/45.
====================================================================

Foreign fighters should be kept max 5 sqdns (100), including all kind of foreign fighters.

So expecting Su-30s will start retiring by 2035. IAF should go for only 2/3 sqdns Super-Su30 upgrade and save money and time for ORCA.
ORCA & AMCA production also should start by 2035 or before.

GoI should reduce expenses on Bullet trains and instead allocate more funds for indigenous fighters.

But to assume that only Rafale will continue after 2040 as foreign fighter in IAF inventory is not possible. GoI will have huge task to balance relation with Russia, so I see the GoI eventually may buy some of Su-75 Checkmate.

my only wish is that indigenous fighters for 35 sqdns should not be compromised at any cost.

[Pratyush]

Please study the procurement plans published by the IAF. They will be available on the IAF thread.

[hemant_sai]

@Pratyush - sorry couldn't locate IAF thread. If you could provide the link?

[Pratyush]

First thread on second page

viewtopic.php?t=7848

[Kartik]

First look at the indigenous IRST being developed by IRDE. Courtesy Sriram

Twitter link

[VishnuS]

But I really wonder with long-range BVR do we need the agility that is demanded due to Vietnam war experiences in dog fights?

Sir, the answer is in Balakot attack.

Has it become redundant due to high reliability and manoeuvrability missiles, yes somewhat.

But our enemy doesn't always fire them under NEZ.

Coming to Jamming, what today's Jammers do is phenomenal, but we can't say how next gen missiles are going to work & how the next gen jammers are going to counter. Then there are tactics to counter... I am sure you heard about 4 missile counter by Russian against US planes in High EW environment. This was old method...(not sure if Russia still uses this method)

Though we're yet to see drones as capable as fighter aircraft, I guess we will see them in next couple of decades.

[basant]

Centre Waives 'Conditional Clause' On Development Of LCA Mark-2, Work On 6 Prototypes To Begin Soon: Sources

Of course, sources said, while the government has cleared the way, work cannot yet begin as the US Congress is yet to clear it. There is a firm belief, however, that there is bipartisan support in both the US Senate (which the Democrats (the party of President Biden) and the House of Representatives, in which the Republicare in a majority, the deal will be cleared.

The LCA Mark 2 designs are ready, but the engine has to be made in India. The prototypes are expected to take about 5-6 years. Then, once the IAF clears it, Hindustan Aeronautics will make the 230 planes, over 15 years or more-- it is a project that would cost tens of thousands of crores and it is definitely long term. The Mark 2 is expected to be a more superior aircraft than its predecessor, the Mark 1, of which the IAF currently has 32 with about four more squadrons on order.

[Rupesh]

So the earliest we can expect MCA is 2030. Add the expected delays in AON, CCS clearance etc. I doubt if the series production can begin before 2033. It's better to order 100 more MK1a and focus on AMCA.

[Rakesh]

^^^ There will be no AMCA without the Tejas Mk2. There will be no Tejas Mk2 without the Tejas Mk1A.

And the Tejas Mk1A would not be flight testing now, if the Tejas Mk1 was not flying in two squadrons.

(In Reverse)
AMCA / ORCA > Tejas Mk2 > Tejas Mk1A > Tejas Mk1 > Tejas LSP > Tejas PV > Tejas TD

TEDBF > Naval Tejas Mk1 > Tejas LSP > Tejas PV > Tejas TD

You cannot skip the above line. You have to have a proven product (at design, flight testing and manufacturing), to move on to the next stage and then move on to the next generation. There is no way around this. Ask any aerospace engineer at Lockheed Martin if they could have jumped directly from the F-16A/B Block 15 right to the F-35A/B/C. Ask Northrop Grumman if the B-21 Raider would have existed today, if there was no B-2 Spirit. And this is just the airframe design. Look at developmental cycles in radar, turbofans, weaponry, sensors, etc.

Already without skipping the above, we are still importing phoren fighters in triple (MRFA) and double digits (MRCBF). If there is anything I have learned, after 25+ years on BRF, is that military programs - in the Indian bureaucratic/political system - are severely delayed by decades. This is a reality that we have to learn to live with. Everyone (Babus, Chandigarh Lobby, Politicians and even the Chaiwallah) has an agenda to push.

Foreign Fighters With Similar Developmental Cycles
- Gripen E/F > Gripen NG > Gripen C/D > Gripen A/B
- Rafale F4 > F3R > F3 > F2 > F1 > LF1 > Rafale A
- F-21 > The number of preceding Block upgrades are endless > YF-16
- F-15EX > F-15E Strike Eagle (plus numerous export variants that came from the SE) > F-15C/D > F-15A/B*
- F-18E/F/G > F-18C/D > F-18A/B > YF-17

* The first prototype of the F-15 flew on 27 July 1972. More than 51 years later, the latest variant (F-15EX) is entering service with the USAF.

You cannot skip the technological totem pole, unless you live in Communist China. They are currently working on 7th generation fighters which will shoot down America's NGAD sixth generation fighters while remaining stationary on the runway. The Chinese are technological wizards

[ramana]

Rakesh better yet ask any USAF officer.

[Pratyush]

I have seen a lot of arguments that the AMCA cannot happen without the Mk2.

Try as I might. I don't understand what the Mk2 brings to the AMCA development cycle. That iterative development of Mk1 doesn't do.

Fly by light?
EW?
Radar?
Weapons?
Mission Computer?
Air frame?
Manufacturing technology and techniques?
Engine development?

All the above are going to be so different from mk2 to AMCA. That a straight line implementation from mk2 to AMCA is not possible.

The lessons have to be learnt afresh for AMCA.

The Mk2 OTOH, I would argue is ultimately having an adverse effect on the AMCA timelines. In the following way.

Engagement of a limited human and industrial resource base, that could have otherwise been deployed for AMCA development.

The absence of the mk2 would have saved anywhere between 5 to 7 years from the AMCA development timelines.

[Aditya_V]

How about production ecosystem setup, the reason why LCA took forever, we had no capability in this country, a baby has to first turn around, crawl , walk and then run. If you think they can go from crawling yo running directly it Wil not happen.

We are far from the aviation ecosystem we need.

On the other AMCA will get inducted much earlier through LCA mk2, as the machinery, Investment, knowledgeable staff , who have done will all be there. People learn from doing things, no lt through debates and empty words.

[Pratyush]

All that you are saying is doable with the mk1 and its iterations.

The whole point that I want to understand about the mk2 being absolutely vital for AMCA is very simple.

What the Mk2 is going to teach us. That a mass production of mk1 in different iterations will not teach us.

If the argument is supply chain management. What mk2 is going to teach us. That a mass manufacture of mk1 will not?

If anyone tells me, that the IAF has a need for an aircraft that carries X% more payload Y% farther than mk1. And mk2 is that aircraft. I don't have any issues with that argument. Because the requirements are quantified and therefore understandable.

But having learnt what I have about supply chain management and mass manufacture. I don't understand the logic that people are offering for the necessity of mk2 for the existence of AMCA.

[basant]

^^^
I also have been of the same opinion that we could skip or have AMCA in parallel to Mk2. We are not skipping any generations here at all, unlike in the case of Tejas Mk1 that skipped 2 gens! We have parallels elsewhere in India, like PSLV proved to be great despite bad record of its predecessor ASLV. This isn't unusual at all.

[Rakesh]

If anyone thinks valuable time will be saved by dropping the Tejas Mk2 and jumping directly to AMCA, please remember that AMCA will not come anytime before the 2040s. Regardless of whatever HAL or ADA says, the development will take that long.

Take a look at Dassault's SCAF program. It is their sixth generation fighter. What was supposed to arrive in 2036, is now planned to enter active service only in the 2050s. Development of key systems (i.e. a new turbofan from Safran and MTU) is expected to take minimum of a decade. Dassault has skipped an entire generation and see the pitfall they have put themselves into. From the 4++ generation Rafale, they are jumping straight to SCAF. But everything in the SCAF (radar, sensors, turbofan, weaponry) will find its genesis in the Rafale. And there are a whole bunch of reasons for the delay in the timeline and much of those reasons can be mirrored in India.

The IAF will never hit 42 squadrons. The scale of obsolesce (retiring squadrons) combined with the meagre entry of new airframes (both phoren and domestic) will ensure that never happens. You can't just mass produce Mk1As to fill up the gaping hole, as different types serve different roles. Su-30MKI is the heavy lifter, Rafale is the door breaker, Tejas Mk1A is the light fighter, etc. You cannot expect the Mk1A to do what the Su-30MKI does. There has to be a balance within the ORBAT.

While additional Tejas Mk1As are very necessary, Air HQ will not induct 300 or even 200 of this particular variant. With the Tejas Mk2, the number varies from 100+ to around 200 airframes. Expect long delays, but the Tejas Mk2 will come. One silver lining (if properly funded and that is a big IF) is HAL's CATS Warrior program. Autonomous wingman drones to conduct high-risk missions (i.e. deep penetration strike). That will alleviate the squadron shortage.

[RoyG]

Rakesh,

Is there any official statement from IAF about the timeframe for prototype roll out? I have a suspicion about what is happening in the background. The civil service led foreign procurement lobby is stretching the prototype development cycle to cause induction delays and push through more foreign platforms. 5-6 years is too long.

The issue isn’t if the LCAMK2 is coming, rather how many orders will it get to replace the legacy fighters and build an ecosystem big enough to support AMCA. Taking a leaf out of Arjun project they will give just token orders of 100 aircraft or less. This is my prediction and then push through more Rafales. They will then do the same with AMCA and the cycle will go on and on. Doesn’t matter how many GE engines we get or indigenous content or whatever. The goal posts will always be changed and the orders will be curtailed. These procurement guys don’t just disappear. They adapt.

[Tanaji]

Air HQ is entirely predictable: they will put in an order of 8 followed by 16 or 32 Mk 2 and then claim they will order AMCA instead as Mk 2 is deemed obsolete. As Rakesh has said AMCA will arrive in 2040, AirHQ will see falling numbers and suddenly put in an order of 60 more (when arm twisted) for Mk . 2. On being told HAL can’t provide those numbers in time frame Air HQ wants, it will then release a RFP for 4.75/5th gen platform or lease 24/36 fighters. Foreign manufacturers will only be too happy to oblige the stupidity of AirHQ

[Pratyush]

WRT, the mk2 development not having any effects on the AMCA development timelines. I have a simple question.

Does India have sufficient human resource base in order to run both the programs at the same time?

If answer is yes, then I don't have anything to say about the timelines.

Second, WRT, the squadron levels.

When was this force structure arrived at?

IIRC, it was after the 62 war. That was over 60 years ago. The IAF needs to re look at the numbers. As at that time PRC lacked inflight refueling capacity or even BVR capacity.

Modern PLAF, if they are able to continue with the build up. Will have a force of over 2500 5th and late 4th generation jets by 2045.

The 42 squadron force is not going to cut it.

The CATS warrior program looks promising. Until the moment you take a long look at the planned performance characteristics of individual components of the program.

You will realise that the performance characteristics of platforms are not sufficient to operate over Tibet in any depth.

The IAF needs to think in terms of building a 200 to 225 squadron combat force.The structure of that force is upto the IAF. Both mk1 and 2 in quantity have a place in that force. So does AMCA and a future notional AHCA.

[drnayar]

How about production ecosystem setup, the reason why LCA took forever, we had no capability in this country, a baby has to first turn around, crawl , walk and then run. If you think they can go from crawling yo running directly it Wil not happen.

We are far from the aviation ecosystem we need.

On the other AMCA will get inducted much earlier through LCA mk2, as the machinery, Investment, knowledgeable staff , who have done will all be there. People learn from doing things, no lt through debates and empty words.

i tend to agree with admiral as above said. There is no way around building an entire ecosystem of generations unless there is sustained funding and iterative development. Even the chinese had to do it. Why did they not jump from 3rd gen mig clones to 5th gen if they could ?

And that cannot happen overnight but maybe in a decade India would have the sufficient tech and manufacturing capability to produce further generations in lesser lead times., just witness the progress of new missile developments.. all those investments done decades back now paying back.

There is no shortcut., only hard sustained effort financial and otherwise., we need good project managers to see things through

[Rakesh]

WRT, the mk2 development not having any effects on the AMCA development timelines. I have a simple question.

Does India have sufficient human resource base in order to run both the programs at the same time?

If answer is yes, then I don't have anything to say about the timelines.

Yes. The issue has never been manpower or even money, but priorities.

We prioritize the wrong things i.e. MRFA, MRCBF and devote time, energy (manpower) and finances (money) to those projects. Then complaining that there is no money or manpower for local programs is a fallacy. First determine what your priority is and then everything else will fall in place.

Paraphrasing Air Chief Marshal PV Naik (retd), "The services must have the capability to meet the country's aspirations." So the question to ask is what is/are the country's aspirations? This is not a BRF discussion, but a discussion that has to happen in the PMO's office.

And even if the PMO has set down the goal (i.e. Atmanirbhar Bharat), then the entire machinery (services, bureaucracy, etc) have to be behind that goal. Is that happening? Prachand, additional Tejas Mk1As, ATAGS, LUH is all awaiting orders. In the absence of orders, then what is the value of Atmanirbhar Bharat, other than being a sound byte?

So again, what is/are the priorities and is the country working towards that goal?

Second, WRT, the squadron levels. When was this force structure arrived at? IIRC, it was after the 62 war. That was over 60 years ago. The IAF needs to re look at the numbers. As at that time PRC lacked inflight refueling capacity or even BVR capacity.

Modern PLAF, if they are able to continue with the build up. Will have a force of over 2500 5th and late 4th generation jets by 2045. The 42 squadron force is not going to cut it.
....
The IAF needs to think in terms of building a 200 to 225 squadron combat force. The structure of that force is upto the IAF. Both mk1 and 2 in quantity have a place in that force. So does AMCA and a future notional AHCA.

The IAF is not getting anywhere close to 42 squadrons, so 200 or 225 squadrons is a pipe dream. 42 squadrons will not be achieved this decade or even in the next. Jaguars, MiG-29s, Mirage 2000s are all retiring by the middle of the next decade. 83 Tejas Mk1As (4), 36 Rafales (2), 260+ Su-30MKIs (13) and 114 MRFA (6) will still not hit 42 squadrons. Even 200 Tejas Mk2s (10) will still not achieve 42 squadrons. Do the math. Add those numbers up.

The IAF will not hit 42 squadrons.

The CATS warrior program looks promising. Until the moment you take a long look at the planned performance characteristics of individual components of the program.

You will realise that the performance characteristics of platforms are not sufficient to operate over Tibet in any depth.

The first iterations will always be TDs. Subsequent variants will be better and will achieve desired performance parameters. CATS Warrior is not the solution for every mission, but can be a great force multiplier if used effectively. For targets that require greater reach, cruise missiles and IRBMs can be employed. But that requires judicious use ---> viewtopic.php?p=2596828#p2596828

Manned combat aircraft will obviously play a very crucial role, but the future lies in autonomous aerial vehicles.

[RoyG]

I agree with you Rakesh but differ on priorities. It’s not priorities which are dictating direction but babudom led collusive interests. When it comes to major platforms, atmanirbhar is a complete failure.

Just look at the induction list:

ALH
105 Field gun
Naval surface warfare fleet
SSBN
Strategic missiles

Everything else is just not inducted/not inducted in sufficient quantities to stabilize the platform. I have little faith in what the service chiefs say as they are complicit in this corrupt operation. Actions speak louder than words and we’re simply not hitting the mark. Just excuses for supposedly poor planning which get recycled on BRF for decades.

[Rakesh]

I don't disagree with what you are saying RoyG. However collusive interests thrive in an environment when multiple agendas are put in front of decision makers. What is the priority for the decision makers? Once the answer is found to that question, everything else will fall in place.

[ashishvikas]

AMCA is twin-engine fighter which would be expensive.. you can't replace all squadrons with it.

I believe, there would always be a requirement for Single engine capable fighter along with AMCA which would complement it.. they are of different class.

Infact, AMCA development should fuse into LCA MK2A/3.

[basant]

I don't disagree with what you are saying RoyG. However collusive interests thrive in an environment when multiple agendas are put in front of decision makers. What is the priority for the decision makers? Once the answer is found to that question, everything else will fall in place.

Agreed, sir. There are always competing interests, and a strong leadership (as demonstrated by Sh MP), will take lead in a particular direction rather than just getting stuck at the same place for years. We sorely miss his leadership.

[RoyG]

I don't disagree with what you are saying RoyG. However collusive interests thrive in an environment when multiple agendas are put in front of decision makers. What is the priority for the decision makers? Once the answer is found to that question, everything else will fall in place.

I want to respond to what you’ve said in two parts. While I agree with you on priorities, there is more to it. Atmanirbhar has come to mean Make In India, not Made In India. The difference is subtle, but profound. The former is a marketing gimmick, the latter is a brand. So your point about priorities is correct but it doesn’t go to the route of the problem which a policy decision taken by the PMO in consultation with the babu class. So you see, this is the worst form of state capture that can happen. They rigged the very rules of the game through overarching policy. It’s only natural that this creates loopholes in the directives and legislation which follow.

Next, Modi blinded by the glitz and glam of it all simply handed the keys to a politician with no experience in defence. After all if it’s just make in India you just need a compliance officer to ensure that you’re doing just that. And he is. There is no evidence that he is failing in this mission. He’s making in India. May be a foreign product but it’s a good one and we are being plugged into the supply chain. Also, the total percentage of so called indigenous manufacturing is going up. And guess what, 10-15 years from now we have a promise of a 110kn engine. An I-O-U which is worth less than the piece of paper it’s scribbled on for everything minus the most critical crown jewels of engine tech for our big hearts. We have sincere defence reporters who are being given free travel and hotel stay and getting exclusive interviews with ceos of huge foreign defence conglomerates. They say they love Modi and his atmanirbhar mission. It’s all smiles and everybody is happy that we are forging ahead.

Next, and you will all love this one, creating talent through the development of knowledge and specialized skills institutions beginning in primary school is critical for building a high tech r&d and manufacturing sector. We also need to create a system of incentives for this talent and award them with recognition and the ability for promotion in leadership. Guess which mickey mouse Modi put in charge of education when he first took office? Prakash Javedekar . The next two which followed aren’t any better. Just compliance officers like the DM. If Modi had a clue he would’ve picked an IIT or IISc guy who is a phd holder in STEM. But this would threaten the babu class you see. The worst thing for these civil service idiots is domain experts who are promoted from within the very field they wish to lead.

The second part to this whole cluster f*ck is the procurement process itself. As if the faulty policy initiative and talent crunch isn’t enough, we have the very arsonists who created the first two problems in charge of helping the clueless compliance officer RNS fulfill make in India for his excellency Modi. Asking the arsonists to put out the fire - This is a sick joke. They continue this charade of piecemeal orders or cancelling inductions for homegrown indigenous products for a quick buck. They use every trick in the book. It has nothing to do with priorities at this level. It’s rigged by design. If RNS picks a policy for induction of indigenous product then they will reconvene 3 months later with new developments and state every reason why it can’t happen. The can choose to hit any part of the r&d or manufacturing process. The PSU leadership palms are also greased. It’s fare more lucrative to do this then build an institution which can deliver world class home grown products.

The solution to this problem unfortunately isn’t reform. You can’t reform the civil service or a psychology which stands to lose everything of it cedes ground to performers. It’s collapse due to some kind of crisis. We aren’t there yet but we are on our way. Don’t buy into this 5 trillion economy by this date or BJP rule for another 30 years. These are just masks for a system which is decaying more and more every passing day.

I am going to start a thread on decoding babudom. BRF desperately needs it. This class and the servility psychology it infects Indians with needs to be eradicated from the country forever. It will be critical to know the setup and players in sabotaging Indias rise, especially in defence. Decades of hard work by scientists evaporate just like that.