BRICS: News and Discussion

sanman · Post by **sanman** » 21 Aug 2023 09:27

It seems like divisions are growing wider among BRICS founders, even as the push to expand BRICS membership grows.

As far as I know, India is not keen on expanding BRICS membership. Why? Will it only be to China's advantage and not ours?
Will there come a time where India decides it has to leave BRICS? What alternatives do we have?

ricky_v · Post by **ricky_v** » 21 Aug 2023 10:03

necro bump, young'uns not searching through catalog/corpus

sanman · Post by **sanman** » 21 Aug 2023 11:00

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Aug 2023 04:09

XJP address at BRICS. Series of tweets.

https://twitter.com/MoritzRudolf/status ... HbOFg&s=19

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Aug 2023 04:16

De-dollarization in BRICS means using native currency for trade. It doesn't mean a new currency to replace the Dollar is is being touted.

Right now world is chaotic and need to cross the seas one day at a time to reach the other shore.

In BRICS Russia and Brazil are facing economic turmoil. South Africa hasn't emerged form the apartheid crisis.

So it's between India and China.
After 2020 Galwan perfidy need to rebuild trust.
China meantime is facing headwinds in its strong point of economy.

Parkaalam.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 24 Aug 2023 10:57

ricky_v · Post by **ricky_v** » 24 Aug 2023 14:46

https://www.dw.com/en/brics-group-invit ... a-66618967

The new countries invited are Argentina, Egypt, Iran, Ethiopia, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates (UAE).

An Iranian official hailed the new membership as a "historic move." Mohammad Jamshidi, the Iranian president's deputy chief of staff for political affairs said on X it was "a strategic victory for Iran's foreign policy."

UAE President Mohammed bin Zayed said he appreciated his country's inclusion in such an "important group."

"We look forward to a continued commitment of cooperation for the prosperity, dignity and benefit of all nations and people around the world," he posted on X.

Ethiopia's Prime Minister Abiy Ahmed hailed the step as a "great moment" for his country.

"Ethiopia stands ready to cooperate with all for an inclusive and prosperous global order," Abiy said on X.

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 24 Aug 2023 14:53

sanman wrote: ↑21 Aug 2023 09:27 It seems like divisions are growing wider among BRICS founders, even as the push to expand BRICS membership grows.

As far as I know, India is not keen on expanding BRICS membership. Why? Will it only be to China's advantage and not ours?
Will there come a time where India decides it has to leave BRICS? What alternatives do we have?

Divisions are expected but how can India grow its influence within BRICS is the question.Without india BRICS will fail in its primary objective, it just becomes another SCO..

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 24 Aug 2023 15:14

Modi says memberships of Argentina, Iran, Saudi, UAE, Egypt, Ethiopa have been approved based on rules, guidelines and procedures that were established. So, they must have been in the working on those for some time.

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 24 Aug 2023 15:45

Maybe they should let in members only in fixed intervals., once in 5 or 10 years., that would probably give time for internal dynamics to stabilize.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 24 Aug 2023 16:48

^^^Raja Mohan's analysis is pretty much on target. However, there is nothing to worry for India in the immediate term. The biggest gain is to establish non-dollar dependent trade, especially for India's energy needs, using local currencies. We don't want the rupee to fall, but we dont want a too strong rupee either. China is playing along because it also wants to get rid of its colossal USD reserves and US bonds.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 24 Aug 2023 20:09

Iran, Saudi Arabia and Egypt are among 6 nations set to join China and Russia in BRICS economic bloc

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Aug 2023 20:39

The minute I see CRM in the byeline my filters get activated. This guy is a Western stooge even after the past by-sell date.
What Sino-Russian alliance is driving BRICS/
Russia is an economic basket case and China is heading in that direction due to multiple factors.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Aug 2023 20:40

A prescient blog article by now banned member RamaY

http://bharata-bhuti.blogspot.com/2014/ ... s-v20.html

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 24 Aug 2023 22:45

XV BRICS Summit Johannesburg II Declaration

26 pages of a very interesting read.

Considering Russia is the next host, I wonder if de-dollarization in the very near future is inevitable.

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 24 Aug 2023 22:46

NRao wrote: ↑24 Aug 2023 20:09 Iran, Saudi Arabia and Egypt are among 6 nations set to join China and Russia in BRICS economic bloc

I think the single most geopolitical event would be a decision by the reformed BRICS to dump the petrodollar .. even as it is happening to use their national currencies The US is likely to pressure India not to agree to such an event. ... unofficially it will happen nevertheless

also how the world would have changed.. it was almost always the other way around ..

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 25 Aug 2023 02:04

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/busine ... ed-euro/

Usual Rhonda dhona ..couldn't make any sense of what that author pickard is saying.Someone needs to beam him to sanity land.

S_Madhukar · Post by **S_Madhukar** » 25 Aug 2023 02:32

Interesting thoughts from Ankit Shah some which I have been mulling myself and some that seem pure fantasy …

KL Dubey · Post by **KL Dubey** » 25 Aug 2023 03:28

I watched a few videos of the summit. Modi, as usual, shone through. Jinping looked worn out, doddering, and low on energy. Additionally, he distributed speaking assignments to his assistants and did only one speech himself.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 25 Aug 2023 18:59

Some humour is necessary every now and then...

https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... 06714?s=20 ---> Pakistan says it will not apply to join BRICS.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 26 Aug 2023 10:13

KL Dubey wrote: ↑25 Aug 2023 03:28 I watched a few videos of the summit. Modi, as usual, shone through. Jinping looked worn out, doddering, and low on energy. Additionally, he distributed speaking assignments to his assistants and did only one speech himself.

Yes, I agree.
The one thing that struck me was the brief disappearance of XJP, for over 24 hours, after he landed at Jo'burg. He didn't deliver the speech at the business leaders' meet and his Commerce minister did so on his behalf. XJP's acts of disappearance are legendary, starting from c. 2012 just before being elected as GS of CCP. Even in the last few months, he hasn't been seen publicly often. The viral video footage showed XJP looking confused after the SA security shut the door behind him after he entered the meeting venue.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 26 Aug 2023 12:54

Rakesh wrote: ↑25 Aug 2023 18:59 Some humour is necessary every now and then...

https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... 06714?s=20 ---> Pakistan says it will not apply to join BRICS.

Three of it's many fathers are already in so why apply...

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 26 Aug 2023 14:30

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 27 Aug 2023 04:56

My 1 cent.

There are many/lot of "analysts" who are debating who, Modi/India or Xi/China, asked for a "meeting" (formal/informal).

IMO, it does not matter.

India moved some 2 squads of Mig-29 (and a few other things I would imagine) that are not included in any "analysis". I very much doubt Xi would agree to meet, formally/informally, if India had not moved such assets.

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 29 Aug 2023 07:29

One organization that will play a critical role for BRICS+ is the multilateral bank -- New Development Bank (NDB)

Initial capitalization $100 billion equivalent

Shareholding/Structure

Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa each at 18.98%
Egypt (2.27%), Bangladesh (1.79%), and UAE (1.06%)

On August 15, 2023, New Development Bank (NDB) successfully issued its debut ZAR bond in the South African bond market, becoming the highest rated issuer to issue in this market since 2015.
...
The orderbook was well diversified with 71% of bids being allocated to institutional investors and the remainder taken up by local banks.
...

Here is an important part. For the member countries to participate in the issue, the participating countries need South African rand (ZAR). And, where do they get ZAR from? For India, when South Africans buy things India for ZAR, or someone else who has ZAR trades/swaps with member countries for Rupees, Yuan, Ruble, or Rial etc.

Well, NDB is onto the next thing...
NDB issued CNY 8.5 billion bond in the China Interbank Bond Market

This will allow member countries to confidently accept each other's currency, knowing other member countries can potentially buy that currency or invest. Furthermore, it allows NDB to invest the proceeds in local countries for development. may be rupee issue coming soon. All happening in small amounts and pilot basis, but बूंद बूंद मिलके बने सागर|

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 29 Aug 2023 15:24

The Guardian view on Brics: demand for membership is a symptom of global disorder

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... l-disorder

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 29 Aug 2023 18:45

BRICS effect? Biden to push for IMF and World Bank reforms at G20 summit in Delhi

https://www.wionews.com/world/brics-eff ... lhi-628100

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 30 Aug 2023 07:20

Oui, oui

Macron wants ‘boldness’ to counter weakening of the West

<snip>
French President Emmanuel Macron called during his annual speech to ambassadors on Monday (28 August) for institutional changes to the European Union to meet present challenges and maintain Europe’s and the West’s influence.
...
Macron set out the priorities for French diplomacy at the Élysée Palace, noting the “international context is becoming more complicated and poses the risk of a weakening of the West and more particularly of our Europe.”

According to the president, Europeans are witnessing an “objective dilution of [their] population, of [their] produced wealth, of [their] share in world trade” and a “progressive calling into question of the international order”.

This is exacerbated by the role of new international powers, the energy crisis, and by a “politics of resentment that feeds on reinvented or fantasised anti-colonialism in some cases, and on instrumentalised anti-Westernism in others.”
...
An international order shaken up by BRICS and their “desire to bring about an alternative order” and by “Sino-American tensions”, have led to the rules of international trade being called into question, said Macron.
...
More broadly, to counter the decline of the West, the president called for “a profound reform of global governance”, including the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank.
...
Macron also called once again for “boldness”, in order to work “on new formats” for cooperation between Europeans and emerging countries, including India, Brazil and South Africa, and “not to lock ourselves into existing formats”.
...
<snip>

VKumar · Post by **VKumar** » 30 Aug 2023 23:36

SA President did not receive PM Modi.

Then later, when all BRICS leaders were on stage and sitting, only PM was left standing but SA Pres invited him to sir on the sofa, where Xi was already sitting. PM kept standing and showed reluctance to sir with Xi.

Did anyone here think similarly?

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 04 Sep 2023 13:37

Been seeing the reactions to BRICS summit in JoBurg among the usual European MSM and other non-MSM commentators. Most seem to think China pulled off a fast one on the west and is using BRICS as a platform to protect itself from the west. India's role and ambitions do not get much attention. A new EU narrative is to pooh-pooh BRICS saying its a bunch of countries with divergent interests that will not last. That view could also be a prediction about EU's own future

Methinks the reason for this ignorance about India is the west's lack of understanding of India, which requires a lot of effort and forces them to rethink and reevaluate many concepts now taken as a "given". And most people cannot or do not want to make this effort.

Which is fine in a way because it keeps the focus elsewhere while India gets stronger and stronger.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 04 Sep 2023 14:44

Cyrano wrote: ↑04 Sep 2023 13:37 Been seeing the reactions to BRICS summit in JoBurg among the usual European MSM and other non-MSM commentators. Most seem to think China pulled off a fast one on the west and is using BRICS as a platform to protect itself from the west. India's role and ambitions do not get much attention. A new EU narrative is to pooh-pooh BRICS saying its a bunch of countries with divergent interests that will not last. That view could also be a prediction about EU's own future

Methinks the reason for this ignorance about India is the west's lack of understanding of India, which requires a lot of effort and forces them to rethink and reevaluate many concepts now taken as a "given". And most people cannot or do not want to make this effort.

Which is fine in a way because it keeps the focus elsewhere while India gets stronger and stronger.

Cyrano ji,

India is deliberately being ignored by most of the western press so as to diminish it's achievements and rising importance

there is consternation mixed with fear and trepidation that another cheen like monster is rising, one that will also be way beyond their control and has the serious potential to don the role of the third pole but this one had genuine democratic credentials tied to a millennia worth of developed intellectual clout, and cerebral accomplishments to back her soft power narratives.

It is India's democratic character, that scares them most of all, especially when coupled with the long suppressed Hindu populace that is now fast awakening to claim their legitimate rights and eagerly getting ready to cement their long denied place in the bright sun of the global arena

but unlike cheen and the amrikis, India is not greedy or grabbing of assets, using fiscal or military muscle. The infinitely softer approach of India that has always been collaborative, compassionate, and cooperative has convinced many countries to request Indian collaboration in the development of their critical infrastructure and development of mining, oil and gas sectors and other sensitive sectors.

India is financially prudent, militarily untouchable (unless someone is desperate and also willing to risk a full scale nuclear exchange), politically stable, with a docile and hardworking population, which is why the use of non conventional means of destabilizing a country, like cross border terrorism, FFNGO led naxal subversion, mullah missionary combination and nexus used to change demographics and nurture antinational vote banks are being used against the country to uproot the democratic traditions that have been entrenched in the civilizational continuum that stretches back many many centuries to a time when the abrahamic cults were nowhere on the horizon

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 04 Sep 2023 16:02

Absolutely! You spelt out perfectly what I just hinted at saar !

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 06 Sep 2023 23:34

This guy @richimedhurst is just brilliant. He blows everyone away with facts on BRICS. And it is about time, that nations created their own destiny.

WATCH VIDEO

Maybe it’s time we all start paying more attention to this.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 09 Sep 2023 13:06

Russia jumping the gun it seems... LoL

https://i.hbrcdn.com/haber/2023/09/06/r ... 6837_m.jpg

https://euro.eseuro.com/temp/resized/me ... c4b305.jpg

IMO, Lavrov narrowly escaped the wrath of NaMo because the note atleast says Bharat.

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 09 Sep 2023 13:11

^^^^ it's got the Taj Mahal, the construction of which in fact led to the economic ruin of the Mughal empire.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 09 Sep 2023 19:05

Must have choosen Brihadisvara Temple, Konark, Sanchi Stupa for image. Since BRICS did expand, this design, will remain a design.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 09 Sep 2023 22:00

uddu wrote: ↑09 Sep 2023 19:05 Must have choosen Brihadisvara Temple, Konark, Sanchi Stupa for image. Since BRICS did expand, this design, will remain a design.

uddu ji,

sadly, the taj mahal is all that the gora identifies with India

often mistaken as the symbol of love, it was, in fact, a symbol of mughal power, a megalomaniacs erection depicted in marble

lootyens built dilli was another such symbol of the grandiose power of an everlasting britshit empire.

No one ever builds on such a grandiose scale if they thought that they were going to leave at some time

the grand structures that lootyens built is a very clear indication that the britshits never ever intended to leave India.

They simply could not conceive of a set of events, a concatenation of circumstances, if you will, where they would be fearfully scrambling, in a mad rush, to get out of India

That cosmic changing set of events was unleashed on June 28, 1914 when Gavrilo Princip shot and killed Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria, and his wife Sophie, with his Belgian-made Fabrique Nationale model 1910 .380 caliber pistol.

This was the beginning of the end for the britshits and it was on this very day that their sun began to set and little did they know it then

Who would've thunk that one day a rishi sunak would come to visit a Modi in dilli and greet him with a "Jai Shri Ram"

their sun has truly set

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 09 Sep 2023 22:05

Haresh wrote: ↑29 Aug 2023 15:24 The Guardian view on Brics: demand for membership is a symptom of global disorder

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... l-disorder

The western media is collectively like the ostrich with its head in the sand. Refuses to see, let alone admit or even recognise any of their own issues.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 10 Sep 2023 00:58

chetak wrote: ↑09 Sep 2023 22:00 often mistaken as the symbol of love, it was, in fact, a symbol of Mughal power, a megalomaniacs erection depicted in marble

Ameen, Summa Ameen. Great Post Chetakji. I will use this description of the Taj Mahal in future.
Gautam

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 10 Sep 2023 01:23

Again the fact that Rishi can greet another ‘Rishi’ thus, is highly significant. Try that in Pakistan or even the US.

Let us acknowledge impressively progressively societies where we find them.