Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

[Barath]

The Bharat Forge ATAGS is based on carriage of GHN 45. It was a superior product when compared with the original Bofors gun.

The TATA product is based on the G5 carriage. This carriage and gun was designed under the leadership of the man who had designed the carriage gun of the GHN 45( Gerald Bull). That makes it nearly an equal to the Bharat Forge product in terms of mobility under APU.

In other words, both the Bharat Forge and TATA product are superior in terms of under APU mobility, when compared to the Bofors.

How do they compare to each other ? Most discussion in the press and orders (such as Armenian orders) seem to be about Kalyani version. Any reasons, technical or commercial ?

[Pratyush]

ATAGS is an evolutionary development of the South African program for a longer ranged 155 mm howitzer. 23 liter 155/ 52 was not cutting it, due to the limitations of the chamber and length of the barrel. By experimentation they settled on a 26 liter chamber volume 52 calibre 155 mm howitzer.

This technology was procured from the South Africans by TATA during one of the corporate takeovers. Jointly along with Rheinmetall of Germany.

This effort in turn was taken to its conclusion in a joint effort DRDO and Bharat Forge.

That's the reason why the two versions of ATAGS are nearly identical to each other.

The gun carriage for different versions are evolutionary developments from the previous corporate procurements of both TATA and Bharat Forge.

Hope that this clarifies.

[Rakesh]

https://twitter.com/lca_tejas_/status/1 ... 03392?s=20 ---> All eight artillery guns of Kalyani Strategic Systems Limited.

[Pratyush]

The Bharat 45 in the Kalyani product brochure above is a straight up renamed Austrian GHN 45. The figures for under APU mobility for this gun is 25 kph.

Wiki lists speed under APU for Bofors as 6 kph.

[nachiket]

So, how does ATAGS’s “shoot & scoot” ability compare with the Bofors in service with the IA? I remember it was a key criterion when Bofors was selected

There are less than 200 of the original 400 Bofors guns left in service. For the first time we have multiple locally designed and produced alternatives available to replace and augment them which are all superior to the FH-77B in terms of range, automation, firing rate, fire control and other technology. Meanwhile a powerful foe is amassing on our border with ungodly amounts of firepower of all kinds being piled up. Yet we are reduced to speculating on every kind of possible technical shortcoming because our defence establishment simply refuses to order any of them in the numbers required without specifying any concrete reasons. I would laugh if the situation wasn't so serious.

[arvin]

So, how does ATAGS’s “shoot & scoot” ability compare with the Bofors in service with the IA? I remember it was a key criterion when Bofors was selected

There are less than 200 of the original 400 Bofors guns left in service. For the first time we have multiple locally designed and produced alternatives available to replace and augment them which are all superior to the FH-77B in terms of range, automation, firing rate, fire control and other technology. Meanwhile a powerful foe is amassing on our border with ungodly amounts of firepower of all kinds being piled up. Yet we are reduced to speculating on every kind of possible technical shortcoming because our defence establishment simply refuses to order any of them in the numbers required without specifying any concrete reasons. I would laugh if the situation wasn't so serious.

Similar to the movie\novel Shatranj ke khiladi where nawabi aristocrats are busy perfecting their chess strategy while British land up at their gates.
Replace chess with Defence procurement strategy.
Sunny deol is still employable with Gadar 2. He can be cast as Bharat Forge senior guy pleading with MOD with the dialogues.... Trial pe... Trial pe... Trial.

[Rakesh]

So 7 years for our Govt to acquire mounted artillery guns. Let that sink in.

We’re in talks with 10-12 countries for defence exports: Bharat Forge CMD Baba Kalyani
https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/co ... 294431.ece
11 September 2023

Q. So, how much of that is in pipeline? Is it possible for you to quantify?

A. Difficult to give figures... there is this contract for advanced towed artillery gun systems (ATAGs) which if for ₹3,000 crore. Mounted guns are also of similar value.. ATAGs at least trials and everything is over but mounted guns, if you take current procurement cycle, it will take seven years. We are working on FICV (Futuristic Infantry Combat Vehicle), it’s ₹50,000-crore programme.. then are FRCV that are main battle tanks. We have tremendous capability in all this. But, FICV alone will take 7-8 years.

[Prem Kumar]

So 7 years for our Govt to acquire mounted artillery guns. Let that sink in.

C'mon man - give them a break! Its not like we are in an armed standoff with China or something

[JTull]

So 7 years for our Govt to acquire mounted artillery guns. Let that sink in.

C'mon man - give them a break! Its not like we are in an armed standoff with China or something

Are we not?

[morem]

sarcasm saar

[SSridhar]

Drawing lessons from Russia-Ukraine conflict, India rebalances artillery plan - ET

Drawing from the lessons of the ongoing Russia-Ukraine conflict, India is rebalancing its artillery modernisation plan to focus on higher mobility, self-preservation of guns and rocket systems, and attaining stronger precision strike capabilities, sources in the defence establishment said.

The army is testing a range of new ammunition that will increase the range of indigenous multiple barrel rocket launchers (MBRL) and make them more accurate as well.

Another lesson drawn from the Russia-Ukraine conflict is the need to have ammunition for extended wars, as well as a surge capability to shore up domestic production when needed, people cited above said.

In the past, the army relied heavily on towed gun systems but is now in the process of acquiring self-propelled artillery that have shoot and scoot capabilities, increasing their chance of survival from enemy fire.

The process to acquire truck-mounted artillery guns is already underway.

"In the revised artillery profile, there has been an increase in self-propelled and mobile systems," one of the sources said. The army is conducting tests for modified K9 Vajra self-propelled artillery systems.

A case for procuring 100 additional K9 Vajras is already underway and sources said this number could go up higher in the future as the need arises.

K9 Vajra is the Indian version of South Korean Hanwha Defense's K9 Thunder. It is built by Larsen & Toubro. The army is already in the process of negotiations to acquire the indigenous Advanced Towed Artillery Gun (ATAG) system, with the order to be split between Bharat Forge and Tata Defence.

It is also looking at a new, more advanced towed gun system from the Indian industry.

The indigenous Dhanush is being inducted with one regiment of these howitzers already raised by the army. Five additional regiments of the guns are promised to be delivered by 2026, people cited above said.

There had been hiccups in delivery of the gun contracted to the erstwhile Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) due to delays in delivery of imported parts, but sources said the issues have been sorted out.

[Prem Kumar]

All talk & no action. We have seen the same kind of "modernization talk" for decades now

Why learn from Ukraine when we had our own Kargil war which proved that Artillery was king? What was the IA doing for 2+ decades!

After K-9 line goes idle & Ukraine happens & 2 years after Galwan happens, the navel-gazers asked themselves: "Hmm, maybe we should order them self-propelled howitzers, what say you?"

Even now, there are no orders. Expect more navel-gazing about the mix of ATAGS vs MGS vs K9 (because you see, ATAGS has to be towed and is not appropriate for the IA's 8th generation warfare). The top 2-3 layers of leadership needed to be canned for culpable negligence

Here is more on this from today's TOI:

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... s?from=mdr

[Pratyush]

This is what agitated me so much when the Indian army released the stupid RFI for a 15 ton towed howitzer last year.

They are thinking, that the PLA will never be a capable fighting force.

That they can continue to play stupid games. But that they will never win the stupid price.

[srin]

Drawing lessons from Russia-Ukraine conflict, India rebalances artillery plan - ET

It is also looking at a new, more advanced towed gun system from the Indian industry.

WTF ? What is even more advanced towed gun than ATAGS ? What do they want to advance it on ?

[Pratyush]

^^^^

58 calibre and 30 liter chamber.

A carbon copy of the US ERCA.

However, beyond a certain range, arty stops remaining the cheap and chearful weapon capable of delivering massed firepower.

Because the CEP will have become so high that mass will become meaningless.

Precision guidance can bring arty back into contention.

Precision however, is a double edged sword.

Because one must ask the question.

At what point in time, a battlefield loitering munition becomes cheaper than the combination represented by long ranged arty and precision guided projectiles.

If the counter argument to loitering munition is that it can be jammed. Then so can the signal guiding a precision guided shell.

[Pratyush]

I am not sure if the Indian army is actually thinking about the cost benefit of ATAGS and precision guided arty shells.

But they are definitely getting a ton of loitering munitions.

[Prem Kumar]

And the day is not far (in fact some such munitions already exist) when these loitering munitions can operate autonomously using AI in a jammed environment. See target, hit target

Good point about PG Artillery vs loitering munition. But the main advantage of artillery is that, even a single shell can devastate a large area. Its an area weapon, which is increasingly being R&D'ed as a precision weapon. In the latter use-case, like you said, it becomes a question of whether its more useful than a loitering munition

[Kersi]

Drawing lessons from Russia-Ukraine conflict, India rebalances artillery plan - ET

WTF ? What is even more advanced towed gun than ATAGS ? What do they want to advance it on ?

Does "advanced" mean imported, to IA ?

[sanjayc]

Generals have found another bird in the bush, to avoid taking the one in hand

[Neela]

Generals have found another bird in the bush, to avoid taking the one in hand

Nope.
Beyond a point e.g. Bharat Forge's complete array of products, it will be hard to go for imports. It took what, 10 months for the additional 100 LCA order? This on a much more complex product system. Art'y systems are several orders of magnitude less complex and they now have a OFB, TASL , Kalyani and Bharat Forge - all local , to contend with, a govt which is prodding them with a stick, and a local media and SM which is more aware . This is a battle , any which way you dice it, IA will lose.

[sanjayc]

Even if all are made in India, Generals may still make Indian manufacturers jump through the hoops, developing newer products (whatever brochures the generals can lay their hands on in international exhibitions) without ordering existing ones. They will call the existing ones outdated because some new technology somewhere in the world is more advanced, or they may claim they have changed their artillery strategy, due to which development of new products with new specifications has become necessary (like they are doing now, citing Ukraine experience, or what they did with Arjun).

[Pratyush]

IDRW, is reporting that an order for 700 guns will be placed shortly. 300 each for ATAGS and MGS, with 100 for the K9.

[Manish_P]

WTF ? What is even more advanced towed gun than ATAGS ? What do they want to advance it on ?

Does "advanced" mean imported, to IA ?

The article is behind a paywall (and i am not going to pay to TOIlet group)

The words used in the summary are ' The focus is on mobility, self-preservation, and precision strike capabilities'

Does the 'self-preservation' here refer to shoot-and-scoot or APS (like MBTs)?

hopefully it is not self-preservation of the lobbies

[Kersi]

Even if all are made in India, Generals may still make Indian manufacturers jump through the hoops, developing newer products (whatever brochures the generals can lay their hands on in international exhibitions) without ordering existing ones. They will call the existing ones outdated because some new technology somewhere in the world is more advanced, or they may claim they have changed their artillery strategy, due to which development of new products with new specifications has become necessary (like they are doing now, citing Ukraine experience, or what they did with Arjun).

[sanjayc]

Does "advanced" mean imported, to IA ?

The article is behind a paywall (and i am not going to pay to TOIlet group)

Use this: www.removepaywall.com

Works like a charm

[mody]

The lessons to learn from the Ukraine conflict is that the counter battery fire has become much more accurate and faster. As per the article given above, the time lag has gone down from 10 minutes to 2minutes.
This means that mobility, range and accuracy have become much more important (these are anyways 3 of the pillars of a good arty gun, along with firepower).
However, but able to outgun and outrange the enemy is vital, as both of our principal advisories will have counter battery radars. Both has sufficient number of guns as well. IN the case of the pakis, if we induct sufficient number of new ATAGS, MGS, Dhanush etc. guns then we will be able to outgun, outrange them easily, along with a larger capacity for ammunition production and the wherewithal to fire a whole lot of them.

Accuracy arty fire is also becoming more and more important, as fire first, fire far and fire accurately has now become the mantra.
We have very good counter battery radar in Swathi. Locally developed clones of the excalibur round is required urgently to cut down the cost to 1/3rd of the US round.
The magic bullet is actually placing the order for a majority of the products that are now ready.

As a jingo my dream would be:
1) 300 gun order for ATAGS, followed by another order for 780 additional ATAGS guns. Total of 60 regiments

2) 720-900 gun order for ATAGS MGS. 40-50 regiments

3) 240 gun order for Kalyani Truck Mounted 39/52 caliber light 155mm guns. These are mounted on much smaller and lighter 4x4 truck platform, as opposed to the 8x8 platform of the ATAGS MGS. Might prove to be better suited in mountainous terrain. 20 Squadrons.

4) 240 gun order for Kalyani Garuda light weight 105mm guns. 20 Squadrons. Specially ordered for use in the mountains.

5) 300 gun order for Dhanush 52 guns, as a follow up to the 114 Dhanush 45 caliber guns. This is just to keep the OFB guys happy. Plus cheaper and lighter than the ATAGS. Approx. 22-23 regiments of Dhanush.

6) Upgrade around 200-240 of the old Bofors FH-77B guns to the Dhanush 52 standard. Another 10-12 regiments.

7) Complete the order for the 300-480 nos of Sharang guns. About 25 Regiments.

8] Another order of 100 K9 Vajra guns to bring the total count to 300 guns. (100 inducted+100 on order or cleared by DAC, but waiting CCS clearance).

[Manish_P]

The article is behind a paywall (and i am not going to pay to TOIlet group)

Use this: www.removepaywall.com

Works like a charm

haha.. Thank you.

Shoot-and-scoot it is... self-propelled and truck mounted

.. and imported

From the article -

In the past, the army relied heavily on towed gun systems but is now in the process of acquiring self-propelled artillery that have shoot and scoot capabilities, increasing their chance of survival from enemy fire.

The process to acquire truck-mounted artillery guns is already underway.

"In the revised artillery profile, there has been an increase in self-propelled and mobile systems," one of the sources said. The army is conducting tests for modified K9 Vajra self-propelled artillery systems.

A case for procuring 100 additional K9 Vajras is already underway and sources said this number could go up higher in the future as the need arises.

[ramana]

https://www.militarytoday.com/artillery/vulcano.htm

Leonardo has developed this shell.

[nachiket]

Thought this discussion from the 1965 war thread was relevant here as well.

Shiv has tweeted the balance of forces in 1965
https://x.com/shiv_cybersurg/status/170 ... 01623?s=20

Nice. In addition to qualitative superiority in armour, pakis also had qualitative superiority and quantitative parity with India in Artillery. This is an excerpt from this article on the Battle of Asal Uttar.

Both countries inherited an effective artillery arm with the excellent tradition of british artillery.On paper India entered the war with 628 artillery pieces and Pakistan with 552 artillery pieces.On the ground,Pakistan had a decided superiority.All of India’s guns were WW2 vintage british guns .The bulk being 450 odd QF-25-pounders(87 mm),66 of 3.7 Inch (93 mm) howitzers and around 100 of 140mm british heavy howitzers.Pakistan too deployed 240 odd 25-pounders,72 of 3.7 inch howitzers as well as 72 of 105 mm guns.But its main advantage rested in the excellent american artillery pieces it had acquired — 126 of the 155mm M114 Heavy Howitzers and around 50 of the 203 mm M110 very heavy howitzers with greater range and punching weight than the indian guns. The redoubtable 25-pounder ,a veteran of the second world war was reliable and efficient if somewhat dated and used in bulk by both armies.

Furthermore Pakistani artillery was trained to use the american method of using pre-timed fuzes ,so that projectiles fired at different trajectories would arrive at a target at very short interval for maximum destruction.This also allowed Pakistani artillery to disperse their guns a bit more and they also had better weapon locating equipment.

Th Official War History by MoD states 75% of all casualties were caused by Pak.artillery fire.

Something to ponder.

We as a nation have had innumerable lessons on the importance of artillery on the battlefield dating all the way back to the first battle of Panipat in 1526. We shouldn't need new ones every decade. Even during Kargil most casualties on both sides were due to artillery and the power of the Bofors guns helped us win that war. Over 20 years later we are still showing no urgency in replacing them and increasing the numbers.

Our lethargy and disinterest in acquiring self-propelled and mounted artillery is even worse. Pakis were operating the M110 self-propelled howitzer in 1965. We only started looking for them after the 1971 war and didn't actually acquire anything till the M46 Catapult solution in the 80's, and only a 100 of those. Pakis have operated M109's for ages now and even got upgraded ones back in 2010. They have also got truck mounted SH-15's from China. We bought 100 K9's and sat twiddling our thumbs even letting the production line remain idle. Pakis have always outnumbered us in self-propelled artillery from the 60's till today. Absolutely shameful.

[prashantsharma]

IA seems to have a festish for limiting orders to not more than 100 of the best.. from the articles above - 100 British 140mm howitzers, 100 catapults, and now 100 K-9s WTF

[Prem Kumar]

Even discounting import fetish'es etc, this piecemeal ordering is a symptom of one or more of the following:

1) Lack of confidence in one's own planning and assessment of technology. Always thinking What if some better tech comes along in 5 years. We shouldn't look like fools. Even in areas where tech doesnt progress in a rapid pace, like artillery

2) Insufficient budget and wanting to make every order count. Instead of purchasing 500 of one type, buy 100 now and 100 a couple of years from now (which has better tech) etc - to optimize the bang for the budget

3) Inability to think big: how to get 10X overmatch vis-a-vis. This is because of a lack of overarching vision of where they see India as a country & the IA as an institution

4) Inability to foresee a future state of abundance. We dont have enough money now. We will not have enough money later

5) Loss minimization vs Gain maximization attitude: fear of making a mistake or being taken for a ride: what if this does not work well? At least, if I order 100, my loss is minimized

On these points, I am sympathetic to their POV. They are sons of the same soil & a lot of Indians feel the above in their personal finances & about the state of the country itself. It takes time and repeated successes over a long time for us to start trusting our institutions & feeling optimistic about our future. 1000 years of exploitation & self-esteem-damage, followed by 65 years of Congress-rapaciousness has made everyone a cynic and watchful. The last 65 years been even more damaging to the psyche than the prior 1000. It has made us think that we are incapable of self-governance & non-deserving of abundance

Literally every one of the 5 points mentioned above will change if we believe in Atmanirbharta (self-reliance) & cultivate optimism. But that mindset change happens slowly. A new generation, brainwashed in positivity, will have to emerge for this to fully take root.

[Mollick.R]

Army looking for lighter, versatile Made in India artillery guns

By Manu Pubby, ET Bureau Last Updated: Sep 25, 2023, 12:30 AM IST

The Army is looking for lighter, more versatile guns that will be developed and manufactured in India for its requirement of mainstay towed artillery. Interactions are on with the industry to draw up qualitative parameters for the requirements that is likely to be for close to 1,200 guns in future.

Sources in the defence establishment said the new Towed Gun System (TGS) being looked at will be more advanced than the DRDO-developed Advanced Towed Artillery Guns (ATAGS) which are currently in the process of being acquired.

"For the towed mainstay, we are looking at a gun that is lighter than the ATAGs. It will also be technically more advanced and versatile. We expect the industry to offer an even more advanced artillery gun in the future," sources said. Goal posts are getting shifted. More Summer, Winter, Spring, Autumn, Monsoon, Pre-Winter, Pre-Summer yada yada trials & more Drooling on 1008 brochures........

Industry sources added the Army has been in talks with manufacturers and several companies have come up with suggestions for the features in the futuristic artillery weapon. It is likely to have higher automation and accuracy than current systems in service.

The Army has a requirement of over 1,200-towed artillery guns but the acquisition could take place in smaller batches, as has been the case in other procurement cases as well. "A case for acquisition is expected to be moved after the industry interactions and drafting of technical requirements," sources said.

At present, the bulk of artillery guns in the Army are 130 mm field guns that are slowly being upgraded to 155mm under the Sharang project. Sources said that an order for 300 upgrades is still pending with the erstwhile Ordnance Factory Board and 25% of the guns have been delivered, with the rest promised to be handed over in two years.

The Army is also in process of awarding a contract for 155mm/52 Caliber Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System. The order for 307 of the indigenous guns is to be split between Tata and Bharat Forge who jointly developed it with DRDO. The Army is awaiting commercial offers from the two companies to take the process forward. The lowest bidder will be awarded 60% of the contract and the other company will get 40%, provided they match the price offered by the lower bidder.


Read full news article from here.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 913813.cms

https://archive.ph/Xb9Dz#selection-1235.0-1255.276

[Prem Kumar]

There is a case to be made for the summary removal & court-martial of DG Artillery for not just incompetence, but downright treasonous behavior.

The buck also stops with the repeated IA Chiefs (even the well meaning ones), who have let this rot fester under their commands. The blame also lies with the MoD and various Def Ministers who have allowed this farce to continue

I don't know if social media stinging criticism woke up the MoD & made the IAF-Chief change his tune regarding Tejas. Something similar must be brought to bear here, for whatever its worth.

[SidSom]

There is a case to be made for the summary removal & court-martial of DG Artillery for not just incompetence, but downright treasonous behavior.

Many moons ago there was an article that highlighted the difference between the testing of Athos vs the Atags and listed the extra hoops that the ATAGS had to jump thru. Any link to that will be very much appreciated.

[Kersi]

Army looking for lighter, versatile Made in India artillery guns

By Manu Pubby, ET Bureau Last Updated: Sep 25, 2023, 12:30 AM IST

The Army is looking for lighter, more versatile guns that will be developed and manufactured in India for its requirement of mainstay towed artillery. Interactions are on with the industry to draw up qualitative parameters for the requirements that is likely to be for close to 1,200 guns in future.

Sources in the defence establishment said the new Towed Gun System (TGS) being looked at will be more advanced than the DRDO-developed Advanced Towed Artillery Guns (ATAGS) which are currently in the process of being acquired.

"For the towed mainstay, we are looking at a gun that is lighter than the ATAGs. It will also be technically more advanced and versatile. We expect the industry to offer an even more advanced artillery gun in the future," sources said. Goal posts are getting shifted. More Summer, Winter, Spring, Autumn, Monsoon, Pre-Winter, Pre-Summer yada yada trials & more Drooling on 1008 brochures........

Industry sources added the Army has been in talks with manufacturers and several companies have come up with suggestions for the features in the futuristic artillery weapon. It is likely to have higher automation and accuracy than current systems in service.

The Army has a requirement of over 1,200-towed artillery guns but the acquisition could take place in smaller batches, as has been the case in other procurement cases as well. "A case for acquisition is expected to be moved after the industry interactions and drafting of technical requirements," sources said.

At present, the bulk of artillery guns in the Army are 130 mm field guns that are slowly being upgraded to 155mm under the Sharang project. Sources said that an order for 300 upgrades is still pending with the erstwhile Ordnance Factory Board and 25% of the guns have been delivered, with the rest promised to be handed over in two years.

The Army is also in process of awarding a contract for 155mm/52 Caliber Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System. The order for 307 of the indigenous guns is to be split between Tata and Bharat Forge who jointly developed it with DRDO. The Army is awaiting commercial offers from the two companies to take the process forward. The lowest bidder will be awarded 60% of the contract and the other company will get 40%, provided they match the price offered by the lower bidder.


Read full news article from here.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 913813.cms

https://archive.ph/Xb9Dz#selection-1235.0-1255.276

It means
We have just read the brochure of a super-uber artillery gun made by XXXX in YYYY country and we wish to buy it

[Pratyush]

The army has just killed the ATAGS.

They are now saying that they are going to procure 1200 new and more advanced guns. In stead of ATAGS.

Well done army, always run after a bird in the bush. Ignoring a bird in hand.

https://youtu.be/uqIBptAgX8Y?si=S9zNOT580c7lIBQ2

[sanjayc]

When the Chinese attack, bombard them with brochures of the new "more versatile and advanced" gun under development. Maybe they will be terrified and run away, or even die of laughter

[sanjayc]

The army has just killed the ATAGS.

They are now saying that they are going to procure 1200 new and more advanced guns. In stead of ATAGS.

Well done army, always run after a bird in the bush. Ignoring a bird in hand.

https://youtu.be/uqIBptAgX8Y?si=S9zNOT580c7lIBQ2

Modi needs to overrule the generals and thrust ATAGS down their throats. They won't learn otherwise and keep using these tricks to keep the army nude. It is time to pick up the stick. Their behavior is bordering on deliberate subversion of India. I guarantee you the new "advanced and versatile" gun won't be inducted either, as generals will after 20 years of trials demand "even more advanced and even more versatile" gun.

[morem]

What i find strange is, if nothing gets inducted, no one makes money and in 20 years most of the ppl involved will retire, so where is the benefit?

[Pratyush]

The real issue is that the Indian army wants Athos 2052.

1) The ATAGS was an ab initio development from the DRDO. IOW, the Indian army had never issued a GSQR for the gun.

2) the Army had placed serving officers as a part of the gun development team. In order to guide DRDO efforts. This was a result of an initiative by the then DG Arty. Gen. Shankar. He is currently running a you tube channel Gunners Shot.

3) it seems that the army as an institution was not happy with the initiative. So that, once the gun finished development. They started raising various objections about the suitability of the gun.

Such as, the electric gun laying system and other electric systems. They asked for most of the electric systems to be replaced with hydrolic systems.

Then came the standard excuse to reject any Indian developed system. Weight.

DRDO had estimated that the final product would be approximately 15 tons. But we know that the final product is approximately 18 tons.

All this by an army that had not issued GSQR for the system.

This is the worst aspect for the system.

Ramana, thinks that the government controls the army because it controls the purse strings.

I disagree with him.