Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 31 Aug 2023 19:03

Soon as the news about 100 additional Tejas Mk1As came out, articles have come out of the woodwork questioning the value of the Tejas program to the Indian Air Force. Even worse, this particular article (which is utter tripe) is being pushed by some veterans. Truly disappointing.

Opinion: Three Big Questions About India’s Combat Aircraft Future
https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/ ... t-aircraft
29 August 2023

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 31 Aug 2023 19:11

Some counters below to the above article.

https://twitter.com/FighterPiloting/sta ... 50219?s=20 ---> Author is either downright stupid or he has decided to write any rubbish hoping that veterans will pass it around without due diligence. Thankfully, Indian readers are not gullible and can see through arms lobbies now. Idiot discussing "China & Turkey as arms suppliers to India."

https://twitter.com/FighterPiloting/sta ... 51845?s=20 ---> Arms lobby wants to project that Tejas Mk1A is useless while CCS approval of Tejas Mk-2 is irrelevant. He pretends that up to 2040, a new jet will not arrive. Why is this lobbyism circulated by a veteran? What's his interest in this falsehood?

https://twitter.com/FighterPiloting/sta ... 91538?s=20 ---> So, for arms lobbies, Tejas Mk1A and Tejas Mk2 are a problem, not the solution. This is so true, because arms lobbies have to pack up from India and go home. Veterans merrily circulating this? why?

https://twitter.com/FighterPiloting/sta ... 37432?s=20 ---> So, the author wants to service "world combat aircraft market" at the cost of Indian industry. And who are his choice of suppliers? China and Turkey. Wah, wah, wah! WTF are veterans circulating? Why???

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 31 Aug 2023 20:16

Lets name & shame the veterans who push such tripe

In this particular case, its Sudhir Pillai, whose bio on Twitter reads: "Indian Navy (Retd)| former Flag Officer Naval Aviation, CoS ANC, CI (Navy) DSSC Wellington"

This gent has a track of record of being an Import Bahadur (alongwith other vets like Manmohan Bahadur, Kaypius & sometimes Arun Prakash)

The fact that these folks were high up in the decision making authority & that they push this import-lobby drivel shows the extent of rot in our Armed Forces leadership. Their intellectual-successors would still be serving and be at decision-making levels in the hierarchy. This explains why our Atmanirbhar plans often feel like 2 steps forward and 1 step back

And these are the kind of people + some useless MoD babus who will review DRDO so that they can kick out the organization from any R&D advisory role to the PM. And Rajnath Singh is letting this happen under his watch!

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 31 Aug 2023 22:08

This much takleef over just a mere proposal to acquire 100 additional Tejas Mk1As.

Will they start frothing at the mouth when the deal is actually cleared by the CCS?

srai · Post by **srai** » 31 Aug 2023 23:16

Pratyush wrote: ↑28 Aug 2023 16:13 Why this obsession with assembly lines?

How many lines did the F4 had in USA, or the F 16, or the F35.

All the production was done with a single location. With subsystems being assembled at different locations by sub contractors.

Tejas doesn't need more assembly lines. It needs scaling up at the subcontractors plants.

That scaling up is a function of orders and compressed timelines.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 01 Sep 2023 09:56

That's a brillant infographic, srai!

Tejas is a truly pan-India effort

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 01 Sep 2023 10:10

Indeed, if Tejas production has to increase. Then all the entities have to pull together.

The building of the aircraft in large numbers is going to teach us a lesson. That is, as important as learning how to design the aircraft.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 01 Sep 2023 10:24

Any airforce if it needs to seriously fight needs local

1) Trainers to Advance Trainer jets
'2) make most of the Combat aircraft and related parts.

A huge pool of engineers with relevant knowledge is developed .

To control this BIF, has put its lobby with pliant visas for children across the GOI system, Politicians, Journalists, Bureaucrats, Yes some Service personal also.

The last thing they want an Independent India who take care of herself.

The only reason USA has now realized its mistake, Russian MIC was about to Shutdown but Indian orders which gave Russia the oxygen to keep its industries going in 1991-2010 period, that is why Russia is able to fight today. India was abandoned. It is better for USA that India has its Western dependent or Indian MIC.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 01 Sep 2023 12:45

One still needs final assembly lines to assemble all the parts in one location. Even Boeing and Airbus have multiple assembly lines for their aircraft. Both of them have parts being manufactured by different vendors all across the world. All of them are brought together at their main location and assembled and the assembly lines are huge. I have seen the Boeing 777 and 747 assembly line at Seattle long time back. It is not an easy job assembling hundreds of parts together with precision

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 01 Sep 2023 18:08

Rakesh wrote: ↑31 Aug 2023 17:47 https://twitter.com/hukum2082/status/16 ... 13887?s=20 ---> The Tejas isn't the gold standard like the Rafale, but it is fully capable of getting the job done. Each iteration will get better at what it does with the UTTAM AESA , SPJ Pod, and an ever evolving indigenous A2A/A2G weapons suite. In a protracted war, Tejas will be tasked for every possible combat role from precision strike to mud moving CAS. It will pick the gauntlet with élan and prove its worth. Many will be lost; many will come back battered. We will patch them every single time and send them back to fight. Production lines will hum round the clock to churn new airframes as attrition warfare peaks. The ability to regenerate is priceless. That is the core advantage of having an indigenous fighter aircraft ecosystem. That is the radiance of the Tejas.

^^^ https://twitter.com/sakthivel_cit93/sta ... 16483?s=20 ---> Striking the nail on its head. Continuous upgradation on the run with addition of future indigenous cutting edge weapons, huge numbers at cost effective budget. Tejas Mk1A is essentially "freedom to fight", free from geopolitical strings.

https://twitter.com/Aryan_warlord/statu ... 66192?s=20 ---> Beautifully elucidated, the Tejas isn't just an aircraft it's an ecosystem with the knowledge base almost completely based here. Means pilots can train more at lower costs, means more homegrown weapons trainings making pilots more proficient. Means the repair crews can get first hand information by visiting the manufacturing facilities, means real world feedback can be incorporated in an ever smaller loop, means our latest & best gear can be incorporated at the drop of a hat without foreign permissions. Means whenever conflict comes you can expect the best technology India has to be deployed without delay.

Kersi · Post by **Kersi** » 01 Sep 2023 22:03

Pratyush wrote: ↑01 Sep 2023 10:10 Indeed, if Tejas production has to increase. Then all the entities have to pull together.

The building of the aircraft in large numbers is going to teach us a lesson. That is, as important as learning how to design the aircraft.

Maybe we have partly past that stage

What we need is to fine tune our supply chain system to get the components on time so that the assembly is not held back.
Knowing the vagaries of industries and logistics let us temporary forget about just-in-time concepts and concentrate on increased production with quality

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 04 Sep 2023 20:21

https://twitter.com/Defencematrix1/stat ... 27596?s=20 ---> To emphasize on the importance of the test firing of Astra Mk-I from the LCA Tejas, we have summarized the number behind the flight test. BDL charged $4.2 million as the cost of six combat Astra missiles, equipped with indigenous seekers. This comes out to around $700,000 per unit. For comparison, the unit of the AIM-120 AMRAAM comes to around $880,000 - $970,000 for mass production orders, depending on quantity.

https://twitter.com/Defencematrix1/stat ... 14130?s=20 ---> The numbers above have been converted from INR to USD (at present exchange rate).

Rate in INR (after tax):
* Combat Missile: ₹5,70,00,000
* Captive Missile: ₹4,57,00,000
* Launcher: ₹2,00,00,000
* Launcher (Captive): ₹2,00,00,000
(approximate)

basant · Post by **basant** » 08 Sep 2023 07:23

NeutronX @Archit_Ch
The production of the first 40 LCAs (Mk1) will be completed by next year.
One of the few external differences, that the LCAs of the 83 Mk1a deal will have, is a new fin. It comprises of fewer parts and will be easier to manufacture. The first aircraft with this fin will be SP-41.

+

Additional changes include substitution of minor copper foil parts with aluminium for the purpose of lightning protection.

Twitter

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 11 Sep 2023 06:14

Deputy IAF Chief Assesses LCA Mk1A Facilities: How Tejas Highlights Atmanirbharta
https://www.defencenews.in/2023/09/depu ... nirbharta/
09 Sept 2023

ACM Ashutosh Dixit assessed the TEJAS Mk1A facilities, emphasising its pivotal role. IAF plans to operate over 300 TEJAS aircraft in the next 15 years.

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 16 Sep 2023 13:20

Video - Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari confirmation on 100 more MK1A.

#WATCH | Seville, Spain: The LCA was designed from the ground up to be a replacement for the large MiG series fleet including the MiG-21, MiG 23 and MiG-27 aircraft. With the phasing out of all these aircraft, it is essential that we have adequate numbers of the LCA class aircraft in our inventory. So, apart from the 83 LCA Mark 1A that we have already contracted for, we are moving a case for around 100 more aircraft: Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari to ANI at Airbus aircraft manufacturing facility

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/17029517 ... zSnUQ&s=19

https://twitter.com/ajitkdubey/status/1 ... 8oZOQ&s=19

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 17 Sep 2023 01:05

VRC ji please leave your legacy by moving the file on MK1A at breakneck speed sir, please

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 17 Sep 2023 07:12

It's quite a change in the attitude of the service.

Not that long ago, the same Chief was saying that we will see the production rates for the Mk2. Before deciding on how many we are going to finally order.

To saying that the service is going to procure an additional 100 Mk1A.

Personally I see this as a massive inflection point in the way the IAF is planning for the future.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 17 Sep 2023 09:46

For years BRF members said the production was not being rampedup
because of lack of orders.
Now the orders are there and new orders are in the pipe line

When will HAL start delivering the aircraft in quantities ? ! ? !
The current delivery rate will not work

basant · Post by **basant** » 17 Sep 2023 10:22

Is the money paid to HAL? What's the amount and deadline?

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 17 Sep 2023 10:25

No orders have been placed yet. Once that is done, HAL's feet will be held to the fire. So far, they are on track on the MK1 delivery timelines

Indeed - quite a turnaround by the IAF Chief. Not too long ago, every presser of his was MRFA this and MRFA that. Got a lot of flak on social media. Some behind the scenes "talk" must have happened between him and Rajnath Singh, I think

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 17 Sep 2023 11:19

VinodTK wrote: ↑17 Sep 2023 09:46
When will HAL start delivering the aircraft in quantities ? ! ? !
The current delivery rate will not work

1) Has the IAF actually placed an order for additional 100 units.

2) Is production schedule is agreed upon between the production agency and the customer. Do you know what that is?

3) finally how many aircraft can be produced in one year is a function of the built up infrastructure at the sub contractors side.

None of the subcontractors is going to build capacity to produce 100 Air crafts per annum. When the firm orders are only 83.

4) you can ask for a production capacity to 50 or 60 per annum, if you are planning to build 2000 plus fighter force.

But in the absence of such plans, the current HAL production is the best you are going to have.

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 17 Sep 2023 12:26

What we know -

At the moment, HAL has production capacity of 16/year.

Contract for 83 aircraft is signed with agreed delivery timelines & penalty clause. On track for delivery to start by Feb/March 2024 >> in just 6 months from now.

HAL Nashik is coming up with additional capacity of 8/year and it is expected to take few years.

So, eventually capacity would reach 24/year >> it would just take 4 years to make 100 more aircrafts !!

and who knows.. they increase capacity further. We didn't knew about HAL Nashik being pushed to Tejas manufacturing before this year. Private manufacturers can also pitch in with more outsourcing.

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 17 Sep 2023 16:15

Are those Gautham ?

https://x.com/hvtiaf/status/1703285800345960592?s=20

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 17 Sep 2023 19:40

HSLD bombs.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 17 Sep 2023 22:23

Prasad wrote: ↑17 Sep 2023 19:40HSLD bombs.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Sp ... _Drag_Bomb

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 18 Sep 2023 01:45

Prem Kumar wrote: ↑17 Sep 2023 10:25 No orders have been placed yet. Once that is done, HAL's feet will be held to the fire. So far, they are on track on the MK1 delivery timelines

Indeed - quite a turnaround by the IAF Chief. Not too long ago, every presser of his was MRFA this and MRFA that. Got a lot of flak on social media. Some behind the scenes "talk" must have happened between him and Rajnath Singh, I think

Here is the video of the Air cheif . We have been disappointed in the past of his comments. But this one confirms the Air Force interest in 100 more https://youtu.be/r8mY--ESdgs?si=5Pbt_aRSCl7oyQSp

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 18 Sep 2023 02:30

ashishvikas wrote: ↑17 Sep 2023 12:26 What we know -

At the moment, HAL has production capacity of 16/year.

So, eventually capacity would reach 24/year >> it would just take 4 years to make 100 more aircrafts !!

and who knows.. they increase capacity further. We didn't knew about HAL Nashik being pushed to Tejas manufacturing before this year. Private manufacturers can also pitch in with more outsourcing.

OT but Interestingly similar case with Indian shipyards reaching "Chinese" speeds of build out times esp with modular ship building. If there is the will there is the way. The only bottle necks seem to be foreign sourced equipment !

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 18 Sep 2023 05:50

One of the very interesting point that is missed is this - IAF(/chief) ordered 100 mk1a, just based on hunch? Or based on 2 production model that has been flying for at least 1 year? I would say that, IAF took feedback/notice of the potential of the 2 prototype/production model that has been flying for a year (and yet has not enter full fledged production/squadron service). The planes must be exceeding expectation by miles!!

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 18 Sep 2023 08:05

It makes no sense for the IAF to see production samples before ordering more.

If this was the case. The IAF would not have ordered the Mk1A to begin with.

The impending aircraft retirement is no joke. Mk1A is the bird in hand that can quickly be produced in numbers in India to provide an interim solution. While the MRFA and Mk2 and AMCA come later.

la.khan · Post by **la.khan** » 18 Sep 2023 09:13

ashishvikas wrote: ↑17 Sep 2023 16:15 Are those Gautham ?

https://x.com/hvtiaf/status/1703285800345960592?s=20

In the above picture, what is that red thing on the right most hard point? Instruments? Sensors?

prashantsharma · Post by **prashantsharma** » 18 Sep 2023 09:52

It is a practice bomb dispenser / carrier.
Possibly this model
https://www.sphaera.co.uk/cbls.htm

Kersi · Post by **Kersi** » 18 Sep 2023 11:09

drnayar wrote: ↑18 Sep 2023 02:30
ashishvikas wrote: ↑17 Sep 2023 12:26 What we know -
At the moment, HAL has production capacity of 16/year.
So, eventually capacity would reach 24/year >> it would just take 4 years to make 100 more aircrafts !!
and who knows.. they increase capacity further. We didn't knew about HAL Nashik being pushed to Tejas manufacturing before this year. Private manufacturers can also pitch in with more outsourcing.
OT but Interestingly similar case with Indian shipyards reaching "Chinese" speeds of build out times esp with modular ship building. If there is the will there is the way. The only bottle necks seem to be foreign sourced equipment !

The only bottle-neck is the intentions and will of MOD/IAF/powers-that-be

mody · Post by **mody** » 18 Sep 2023 18:32

ashishvikas wrote: ↑17 Sep 2023 16:15 Are those Gautham ?

https://x.com/hvtiaf/status/1703285800345960592?s=20

Good to see the Litening-IV targeting pod back on the Tejas. I had asked about this in the Tejas-MK1 thread. Most of the recent pictures of Tejas were without this pod.

It is fitted on a dedicated 8 hard point on the center fuselage. Seems like it is only used for air to ground role and hence does not have secondary role as a poor mans IRST, as had been speculated a few years back. At the time there was lot of discussion on this point, as to whether the Litening-IV could actually function as an IRST for air to air roles as well or not. Seems it will only be used for air to ground roles.

basant · Post by **basant** » 18 Sep 2023 18:52

This is a relevant article. Worth reading the entire length.

Rafael Advanced Defense Systems Ltd. is unveiling it has upgraded its fifth generation Litening and Reccelite systems, effectively transforming them from traditional EO pods into EO+, with the addition of a unique SAR feature and the optional application of additional EO+ features, such as (EW, Comm, IRST). This constitutes a revolutionary quantum leap in all-weather, stand-off targeting and reconnaissance pods.

Rafael unveils a unique SAR feature for its Litening and Reccelite EO pods

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 24 Sep 2023 00:25

The Mk1A keeps getting more potent as time progresses. Apart from the obvious advantage to the IAF, this will greatly help in exports as well.

Just in the air-to-air domain alone, see the buffet of missiles the Tejas Mk1A can carry...

• Close Combat Missiles: R-73, ASRAAM and Python 5
• Beyond Visual Range Missiles: Astra Mk1, Astra Mk2, I-Derby ER and R-77

Which aircraft in the IAF inventory can boast of this? Perhaps Su-30MKI?

https://x.com/ReviewVayu/status/1705490 ... 81911?s=20 ---> Big News (on a very rainy day at New Delhi). MBDA’s ASRAAM Close Combat Missile is set to be fielded by India’s Tejas LCA Mk1A. Currently IAF Jaguars have been integrated with the ASRAAM as you all know.

https://x.com/ReviewVayu/status/1705491 ... 28979?s=20 ---> @MBDAGroup and its longstanding Indian partner BDL are establishing a new facility in Hyderabad to assemble and test this (ASRAAM) potent air combat missile.

Picture Below: The ASRAAM on an IAF Jaguar IS.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 24 Sep 2023 06:36

The buffet gets bigger and bigger! All 4-5 areas have good concentration, Short range AA, Long range AA, Smart A2G, SEAD, and the usual dumb bumbs. Next is the cat warrior-style drones that carry out the actual jehadi elimination!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 Oct 2023 01:40

97 more Mk1A to.be ordered. Fleet goes to 220 Mk1A.

Fighter jets, spy planes, choppers, missiles in mega IAF list of desi projects worth over Rs 3 lakh crore
https://t.co/il8AXY4CLb
02 Oct 2023

bharathp · Post by **bharathp** » 03 Oct 2023 07:34

might be an early signal of dwindling or no orders for mk2? perhaps mk2 will be TD for AMCA?

konaseema · Post by **konaseema** » 03 Oct 2023 07:50

bharathp wrote: ↑03 Oct 2023 07:34 might be an early signal of dwindling or no orders for mk2? perhaps mk2 will be TD for AMCA?

I don't think so. It is the acknowledgement by IAF of the fact that the Mk1A is a very much capable aircraft for the point defense role and perform some Air to Ground role. It also reflects the new found confidence on the abilities of various organizations (like ADA, DRDO, HAL, BEL, Bharat Dynamics) by IAF and on the capabilities of the platform as a whole.

Mk2 will come out with a well defined role and replace the likes of Jaguar and the Mirages in the coming years.

SidSom · Post by **SidSom** » 03 Oct 2023 09:52

konaseema wrote: ↑03 Oct 2023 07:50

It is the acknowledgement by IAF of the fact that the Mk1A is a very much capable aircraft for the point defense role and perform some Air to Ground role.

This is a testament to 2 things.

1. I think the reliability and availability of MK1 has been a revelation to IAF. Even though this was clear as daylight when MK1 was tested IAF were not satisfied with the Capabilities of MK1 i.e. radar and other parameters.
2. With the IAF also seeing the pudding of MK1A being tested on LSP and they way the program has come together, there is little or no reason for IAF not to induct MK1A. This just tells me that MK1A when it comes out is going to be a gamechanger with its cutting edge capabilities and mule like reliability and availability.

This bodes well for the entire program.