India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 24 Sep 2023 14:34

What smoking gun?! Makes both US & Canada look like bumpkins. They failed to prevent an assassination. Whatever they claim to be "intelligence" post facto was so weak that no sane minded person would take it to the other side. But Turdeau did and directly to Modi during G20. He was told to buzz off. Then he upped the ante and sprayed vague accusations all over his own parliament. Despite being repeatedly questioned he hasn't produced any smoking gun. Circus clowns.

sanman · Post by **sanman** » 24 Sep 2023 14:49

"American Help"

sanman · Post by **sanman** » 24 Sep 2023 15:00

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 24 Sep 2023 15:44

The FBI warning Sikhs is BS. There is no official FBI warning of any sort . This is based on a report that claims that 2 FBI agents visited a Canadian sikh and asked him to be careful . I think that is BS for many reasons including lack of FBI jurisdiction in Canada . If they did have intelligence about a foreign nationals life in danger they would have handled it to channels and not visit the said person in a foreign country .

I think unkil involvement and support here is greatly exaggerated by the press . Particularly NYTimes and wapo . Especially the Intel leak part .

Trudeau has nothing and that is very clear . Even people from his party are pissed .

Liberal MSM is just trying to run with their usual anti India bias .

A lot of this comes from CBC. CBC is Canadian state funded media . The conservative party actually wants to stop funding it . So There is an additional COI in helping Trudeau here in addition to the fact that it is Canadian state funded media .

I don't think there will be any implications with us relation to unkil , ukistan or Australia.

Canadian relations will only improve when conservatives are back . And Pierre does seem to be a very sensible person overall and even in this issue in particular.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 24 Sep 2023 15:57

I think unkil involvement and support here is greatly exaggerated by the press . Particularly NYTimes and wapo . Especially the Intel leak part .

When the person quoted is the US ambassador to CA, it surely points to something doesn't it ? I thought NTY and Wapo were the dem's lapdogs ? They why are they singing this tune ?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 24 Sep 2023 17:03

gakakkad wrote: ↑24 Sep 2023 15:44 The FBI warning Sikhs is BS. There is no official FBI warning of any sort . This is based on a report that claims that 2 FBI agents visited a Canadian sikh and asked him to be careful . I think that is BS for many reasons including lack of FBI jurisdiction in Canada . If they did have intelligence about a foreign nationals life in danger they would have handled it to channels and not visit the said person in a foreign country .

I think unkil involvement and support here is greatly exaggerated by the press . Particularly NYTimes and wapo . Especially the Intel leak part .

Trudeau has nothing and that is very clear . Even people from his party are pissed .

Liberal MSM is just trying to run with their usual anti India bias .

A lot of this comes from CBC. CBC is Canadian state funded media . The conservative party actually wants to stop funding it . So There is an additional COI in helping Trudeau here in addition to the fact that it is Canadian state funded media .

I don't think there will be any implications with us relation to unkil , ukistan or Australia.

Canadian relations will only improve when conservatives are back . And Pierre does seem to be a very sensible person overall and even in this issue in particular.

shriman,

QUAD will cool down considerably.

the amrikis may also be quietly told to downsize their embassy staff

5eyes countries may not see a friendly India for some time, kaneda may never be able to repair relations, no matter who heads their govt. India couldn't care less about kaneda.

the amrikis have lost control over the monster that they have unleashed.

bala · Post by **bala** » 24 Sep 2023 19:33

sanman wrote: ↑24 Sep 2023 14:20 US Admits Sharing Intel With Canada

The US deep state is striking back. The level of hum int in the US is going down day by day since the average IQ of average gora US is precipitously dropping. Only the foreign immigration IQ is helping them. The deep state has completely infested the FBI, CIA and NSA orgs in the US, most of them concentrated on Rus angle. All the big data, trunk data tapping etc is all fine but you need hum int to interpret the data. Claiming this or that form data is the easy part Post Mortem, but a heads-up alert is a different thing. So the deep state will say this and that to suit their narrative, the actual picture is completely different and maybe the opposite.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 24 Sep 2023 21:47

This is what the WH duffer John Kirby said a couple of days ago. He's asking for India to cooperate with Canada.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/0 ... r-live.cnn

sanman · Post by **sanman** » 24 Sep 2023 22:22

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 24 Sep 2023 22:22

chetak wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023 13:14
Jay wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023 12:37

Arre yaar, if biden maama is too frail, is trump uncle a rambo? if these republicans keep alienating women and young voters, they can say goodbye to presidency in 2024 and we have to deal with maama or maammi. For all his faults, biden has surprised everybody with his stance on india. Where this was a personal relationship during trump admin, biden actually looks like making this an strategic relationship. who ever is the prez in 2024 we need to asset out needs and requirements before extending support. Only if NDA come back to power, this will be possible.

Jay jenab,

Why not Putin, if biden declines

with reference to the ongoing fracas with justinder, inviting Putin would send out an unmistakable and, at the same time, a major geopolitical message

BTW, even before sending out the invitation, an acceptance would have been negotiated at the highest levels.

This is how countries normally work

If no consensus was achieved, the invitation wouldn't have been sent in the first place.

A publicly declined invitation would be a very serious snub and it would also be a major diplomatic disaster for the host country.

Heads would roll, and diplomatic ties would definitely deteriorate

Garcetti leaked that an invite was given by Modi.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 24 Sep 2023 23:15

KLNMurthy wrote: ↑24 Sep 2023 22:22
chetak wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023 13:14

Jay jenab,

Why not Putin, if biden declines

with reference to the ongoing fracas with justinder, inviting Putin would send out an unmistakable and, at the same time, a major geopolitical message

BTW, even before sending out the invitation, an acceptance would have been negotiated at the highest levels.

This is how countries normally work

If no consensus was achieved, the invitation wouldn't have been sent in the first place.

A publicly declined invitation would be a very serious snub and it would also be a major diplomatic disaster for the host country.

Heads would roll, and diplomatic ties would definitely deteriorate
Garcetti leaked that an invite was given by Modi.

Murthy ji,

If true, this changes the dynamics completely.

Biden will not be allowed to attend unless there is what the deep state white apes consider a "satisfactory" resolution

better to accept/force a "no" from the amrikis and quickly move on to fixing up another chief guest....rather that be kept hanging

AFAIK, they always work with a pre prepped standby in case of "eventualities"

Any number of the African union states will accept Modi's invitation at very short notice, after the G20, they owe Modi big time

garcetti is playing his assigned bit part and working to a prepared script, and he is no friend of India

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 24 Sep 2023 23:25

Pls note that US ambassadors are most often political appointees whereas Indian ambassadors are most often career diplomats. This makes a big difference to what they believe in, say and do. Nothing new to see here, don't read too much into public posturing.

This "invite" is much like "India was invited to be on the UNSC". Diplomats always sound out ideas and pick up on reactions. Nothing new. Swipe left or swipe right.

sanman · Post by **sanman** » 25 Sep 2023 01:12

bala wrote: ↑24 Sep 2023 19:33
sanman wrote: ↑24 Sep 2023 14:20 US Admits Sharing Intel With Canada
The US deep state is striking back. The level of hum int in the US is going down day by day since the average IQ of average gora US is precipitously dropping. Only the foreign immigration IQ is helping them. The deep state has completely infested the FBI, CIA and NSA orgs in the US, most of them concentrated on Rus angle. All the big data, trunk data tapping etc is all fine but you need hum int to interpret the data. Claiming this or that form data is the easy part Post Mortem, but a heads-up alert is a different thing. So the deep state will say this and that to suit their narrative, the actual picture is completely different and maybe the opposite.

The all-powerful US Deep State is unhappy with closer Indo-US cooperation, so they're using their channels through Five Eyes to throw bombs at the relationship.

They need to peddle their idea of "Rogue Indian State" in order to lump us in with Iran and North Korea, and make us a pariah.

Like a jealous girlfriend, the Deep State wants to keep America firmly in their grip with their Cold War revival, and not daring to look at other pressing matters like the rising China threat.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 25 Sep 2023 07:21

Before Eric Garcetti opened his mouth, was it common knowledge that Biden and rest of quad have been invited for Republic Day celebrations?

Because, after opening his mouth, he has made it impossible for the US to refuse this invite and escape serious consequences.

US has no choice now but to accept the invite.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 26 Sep 2023 01:22

I saw one report which said that Garcetti said Modi personally invited Biden to jan 26.

The report didn’t get much of a buzz which I thought was strange. Maybe it got overshadowed by the Canada thing.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 26 Sep 2023 01:36

If the US establishment says Biden isn't coming, MEA will just coolly shrug and say ok, thanks for letting us know.

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 26 Sep 2023 11:16

Cyrano wrote: ↑24 Sep 2023 15:57
I think unkil involvement and support here is greatly exaggerated by the press . Particularly NYTimes and wapo . Especially the Intel leak part .

China

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 26 Sep 2023 11:42

Pratyush wrote: ↑25 Sep 2023 07:21 Before Eric Garcetti opened his mouth, was it common knowledge that Biden and rest of quad have been invited for Republic Day celebrations?

Because, after opening his mouth, he has made it impossible for the US to refuse this invite and escape serious consequences.

US has no choice now but to accept the invite.

Pratyush ji,

There was some chatter on SM just after the G20 but that may have been more in the realm of speculation.....

but all the same, no smoke without a fire, no...........................

sanman · Post by **sanman** » 27 Sep 2023 04:37

Rep. Eric Swalwell of California was the one who was called out for sleeping with Chinese spy FangFang

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 27 Sep 2023 07:37

chetak wrote: ↑24 Sep 2023 17:03 shriman,
QUAD will cool down considerably.
the amrikis may also be quietly told to downsize their embassy staff
5eyes countries may not see a friendly India for some time, kaneda may never be able to repair relations, no matter who heads their govt. India couldn't care less about kaneda.
the amrikis have lost control over the monster that they have unleashed.

Chetakji,
Are you saying all that maska that they gave for NaMo in his trip to Khanland did not help at all? And I am not even bringing up his trip to Australia, the original Gora-Pakis here.
If they had spent 10% of that effort on MMS, MMS would have given them everything.
I guess it is just Pappu for PM now.
Gautam

sanman · Post by **sanman** » 27 Sep 2023 10:37

US Visit to Gwadar and Gilgit-Baltistan

So US visit to Gwadar seems to be about Pakistan trying to push back against China and get leverage with them.

But US visit to Gilgit-Baltistan seems to be about US trying to show its leverage on India.

What should India be doing in response to these things?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 27 Sep 2023 12:08

g.sarkar wrote: ↑27 Sep 2023 07:37
chetak wrote: ↑24 Sep 2023 17:03 shriman,
QUAD will cool down considerably.
the amrikis may also be quietly told to downsize their embassy staff
5eyes countries may not see a friendly India for some time, kaneda may never be able to repair relations, no matter who heads their govt. India couldn't care less about kaneda.
the amrikis have lost control over the monster that they have unleashed.
Chetakji,
Are you saying all that maska that they gave for NaMo in his trip to Khanland did not help at all? And I am not even bringing up his trip to Australia, the original Gora-Pakis here.
If they had spent 10% of that effort on MMS, MMS would have given them everything.
I guess it is just Pappu for PM now.
Gautam

Gautam ji,

They gave that grand reception to a chaiwalla just to wow him.

They fully expected tangible returns from the "grand honor" bestowed on him

some of their camp follower thinktankies are saying that India failed to meet amriki expectations.

For Modi, it was just another foreign visit. He is not in any mood to placate geopolitical and geostrategic interests that seek to trample India underfoot and require India to accede, first and foremost, to amriki super power hegemony

These amriki buggers remain as transactional as ever because their culture does not recognise small things like loyalty, respect for the dharma of others and the capacity to be culturally friendly without forcing on you, their one way trade requirements (to keep their MICs happy) along with their geopolitical imperatives, and if there is a cost attached, the amrikis fully expect you to bear it and also be grateful that you are being screwed.

Their focus is always on control, micromanagement, and ensuring your commitment to their idea of international rules based order, aka, "my way or the highway"

Like musharaff was told, post 9/11, "either you are with us or against us".

blinken and his comments on justinder's accusations border on the tangible threat of unleashing the 5eyes coalition on India.

They need Modi's firm commitment before 2024, just in case they are forced into dealing with a regime change scenario that may not sit too well with their main export, which is snake oil.

The amrikis and the EU have now realized that India is not going to roll over for them, or accept their hectoring quietly. This was more than evident during the G20 presidency that was (by rotation) India led.

The opposition coalition in India now includes the commies, the immoral and malevolent power players, who remain ever loyal to the cheenis.

So the regime change, if enforced, may produce uncontrollable and perhaps unexpected/unwanted repercussions.

The amrikis barely succeeded in suborning the mute maestro of machinations, our turbaned terror, during the UPA regime but the chicom controlled Indian commies stalled many a reform and remained a thorn in his side............

until the commies made the fatal mistake of quitting the UPA, thanks to a clown like carrot, who simply failed to understand the geo political dynamics, and most importantly, the game that the mute maestro was playing, while marching to the orchestrated beat of the amriki drummer...

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 27 Sep 2023 12:13

S Jaishankar's interview with CFR. It says live but it is on loop after the first ~~45 min~~ 1 hr or so.

williams · Post by **williams** » 27 Sep 2023 12:49

It is not new for India to dance with the devil. We have been doing that for quite some time now. There are wheels inside wheels when you are dealing with the Khanate. The best we can expect from the US relationship is some sort of neutrality with few irritants. International relationships are to some extent transactional since interests change all the time. India has to navigate that with deftness if she needs to grow into a Dharmic pole. We need to milk what we can, keeping our interests in mind. Canadians will come to our terms soon. They have tasted the power of contemporary Bharath now. With Biden's poll number dwindling, they have huge problems and there is no way Biden can make next year's R-day if the trend continues.

sanman · Post by **sanman** » 28 Sep 2023 05:16

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 28 Sep 2023 05:50

Even Americans don’t listen to her, why publicise her rantings?

Western validation? That is why India’s response to Trudeau’s credible allegations has been so dismissive. They are breaking out of the old paradigm.

They probably decided to treat Canada with some measure of patience. Let some place like norway try it. When all is said there is much more in commonality between India and Canada than non Britain Europe.

The issue is that with rising economic power, countries like Indonesia and Nigeria will be weighted more heavily than Australia or Canada. Certainly quality of life will continue to be much higher in the traditional middle powers but the relative ranking is in a flux.

Perhaps that is what triggered Trudeau. After all India was the subject of much finger wagging for plutonium and Sikh human rights.

I certainly foresee India publically raising human rights issues in the colonisers. It will be joined by all of Africa, much of Asia and even some of South America.

I really do think they need to get back to diplomacy and stop perfomative politics, no matter which vote bank is pushing, either in India or Canada.

bala · Post by **bala** » 28 Sep 2023 06:04

Sanman don't post Ilhan omar stuff. She is a jihad sympathizer and was a low level waitress resurrected by american muslim league. She cannot provide anything useful for India-US relations. Just ignore the crap she spews.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Sep 2023 06:43

bala wrote: ↑28 Sep 2023 06:04 Sanman don't post Ilhan omar stuff. She is a jihad sympathizer and was a low level waitress resurrected by american muslim league. She cannot provide anything useful for India-US relations. Just ignore the crap she spews.

Why should he not post her rantings?
She is a Congresswoman and has a platform to say her rants.
We should know what actors are being activated.
BTW it's admins' job to tell what to post or not.
Thanks.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Sep 2023 06:47

Chetak, I think the US system is deeply split. On purpose or as fallout I do not know yet.
The National Security part is with Biden and doesn't want anything with Trudeau.
The State Department-led anti-India group is batting for Trudeau.
In the end, sadly Biden will have to accept Blinken's resignation!
Two strikes:
- He had no role in the Modiji State visit
- Now supporting Trudeau's lies.
A potential third would be to dig his heels.

QUAD needs a bali.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 28 Sep 2023 09:44

I don't believe at this point in time even state department is with Trudeau.

The comments made by state department officials were the only one they could have made on this topic.

If there was any force behind the words. We would have felt it by now.

Beyond Ukraine, this admins way of dealing with international events can best be described as, close your eyes and hope that a new crisis drives the old one from the news cycle.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 28 Sep 2023 15:44

US ambassador visited PoK - no reaction from Bharat yet?

No need to let such affronts pass - no matter how small they may seem.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 30 Sep 2023 01:58

Speaking to a conservative think tank:

Speaking to what many consider to be part of the Deep State:

williams · Post by **williams** » 30 Sep 2023 02:16

Cyrano wrote: ↑28 Sep 2023 15:44 US ambassador visited PoK - no reaction from Bharat yet?

No need to let such affronts pass - no matter how small they may seem.

There's no need to make a fuss now. But when the time comes and they gripe about our relationship with Russia etc.. We should use this incident to beat them.

disha · Post by **disha** » 30 Sep 2023 03:12

Cyrano wrote: ↑28 Sep 2023 15:44 US ambassador visited PoK - no reaction from Bharat yet?

No need to let such affronts pass - no matter how small they may seem.

Cyrano'ji, a junior minister or a spokie protested about US Amby visiting Paki Oppressed Kashmir, reminding them it is Indian territory.

The US SD nee Nuland have to show that they are earning the salaries and also justify their big budgets. With Cgandus (Canadian Gandus) blowing the kimono over 5 eyes, and the US SD losing leverage over India, they are in search of additional leverage.

The split in the US polity across the board is real and is schizophrenic. US SD is inimical to Indian interest while US Defense is signing deals with India. The latest EAM Dr. Jaishankar meeting with Foreign Secy Anthony Blinken was substantial. In effect, Dr. Jaishankar told US to control its dog called Canada, in effect reading a riot act to US.

It is now open secret that US CIA reserved this Khalistanis in Canada, giving them a pasture and harboring them as potential future tools as leverage and whatever crack Turd-deu was on, he blew the lid. It might be that Turd-deu did not like the heat he was facing and decided to go public. Drawing US Culinary Institute of America into prime focus.

disha · Post by **disha** » 30 Sep 2023 03:16

ramana wrote: ↑28 Sep 2023 06:47 Chetak, I think the US system is deeply split. On purpose or as fallout I do not know yet.

Aiyoo, I just posted the same thoughts before reading this. My observation:

The split in the US polity across the board is real and is schizophrenic.

The National Security part is with Biden and doesn't want anything with Trudeau.
The State Department-led anti-India group is batting for Trudeau.
In the end, sadly Biden will have to accept Blinken's resignation!
Two strikes:
- He had no role in the Modiji State visit
- Now supporting Trudeau's lies.
A potential third would be to dig his heels.

QUAD needs a bali.

A bali could be the CGandu (Turd-deu) may be suddenly ex-communicated.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 30 Sep 2023 06:10

sanjaykumar wrote: ↑28 Sep 2023 05:50 ... even some of South America.

Most number of Africans were brought to Brazil as slaves by the Portuguese. Current day Brazilian population is mostly European+native American in some proportion. European+African and Native American+African face racial descrimination, AFAIK.

Brazil dosen't have the moral authority. Argentina did rehabilitate many nazi scum. So they also have no moral authority. Anyways OT for this thread, so I wll stop here.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 30 Sep 2023 06:12

disha wrote: ↑30 Sep 2023 03:12 The latest EAM Dr. Jaishankar meeting with Foreign Secy Anthony Blinken was substantial. In effect, Dr. Jaishankar told US to control its dog called Canada, in effect reading a riot act to US.

@disha ji, any open source info or rumors on that part?

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 30 Sep 2023 06:56

Vayutuvan wrote: ↑30 Sep 2023 06:12
disha wrote: ↑30 Sep 2023 03:12 The latest EAM Dr. Jaishankar meeting with Foreign Secy Anthony Blinken was substantial. In effect, Dr. Jaishankar told US to control its dog called Canada, in effect reading a riot act to US.
@disha ji, any open source info or rumors on that part?

That is a fair question.

I would suggest listening to two of Dr. J's discussions: Hudson Institute and the presser at the Indian Embassy.

Diplomatic answers need reading between the lines.

In addition, is Blinken saying anything about Indian cooperation? Blinken's silence should suffice.

Finally, please listen to Doval's interview with ANI (in the geo thread). There should not be any confusion.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 30 Sep 2023 13:25

Vayutuvan wrote: ↑30 Sep 2023 06:12
disha wrote: ↑30 Sep 2023 03:12 The latest EAM Dr. Jaishankar meeting with Foreign Secy Anthony Blinken was substantial. In effect, Dr. Jaishankar told US to control its dog called Canada, in effect reading a riot act to US.
@disha ji, any open source info or rumors on that part?

Why this question?

In JS speak, "why do we need to think that EAM would not have responded as indicated? Its not just Canada that needs to look at why these kind of incidents are allowed to happen on their soil and our diplomatic properties and personnel are being attacked."

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 01 Oct 2023 07:09

In these days, generally I don't visit this dhaga and rarely post, but this piece from India's EAM is worth sharing..
Dr S Jaishankar mention of Nehru, Indira, Rajiv Gandhi & Manmohan before hitting Sixers about #Modi. Context : there were 3000 Indians in US when Nehru visited. 30,000 when Indira Gandhi visited, 300,000 when Rajiv Gandhi visited, and 3 Million when Modi first visited ... (Now almost 5 Million) -- ChiefArchitect of today’s #USIndiaPartnership, Jaishanka

When all is said and done -- This data tells us something. When I just came here (30,000 total Indian population). New York state (and whole east cost) - Just one shop which sold Indian Groceries.. (People from upstate NY use to make trip to NYC just to buy groceries/spices) Even in big city like NY, If you heard Hindi spoken and you turned around - either you knew the person - or will soon know ..... Compare this to now!)